Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SLOBS] Long-term support for Sugar
El Mon, 21-09-2009 a las 23:50 -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz escribió: By having distinct packages built separately for each distribution by experts. This is incompatible with our (or at least my) goal of allowing users to throw packages around as atomic objects, without internet access and without having to understand anything beyond my friend has Sugar, so it will work. It is also incompatible with allowing novices to generate first-class Activities. I withdraw my previous example. Admittedly, we couldn't rely on upstream for packaging up things even if we're using native packaging tools. This is also incompatible with your proposal to choose RPM. The equivalent here would be to choose RPM on Fedora, DEB on Ubuntu, ebuild on Gentoo, tarball on Slackware, etc. Yes, this is what I said initially: use native packages. RPM was just an example. Anyway, we'd have to provide different binaries for different architectures, distros, and even different distro versions. The temptation to simplify the universe and declare that there's just one CPU and just one OS is very strong. OLPC tried to take exactly this shortcut, but even in this idealized scenario it will break in many ways, given enough time: switching to ARM, upgrading to Fedora 42 defaulting to Python 3.0... I agree, switching bundle formats would gain us a lot of these features. However, I don't think features such as dependency tracking are of much use to us, because we can't trust system package managers, Why not? Because there is no way to build a single binary that will safely link with all the different distros' libraries Yes, we obviously need a multitude of binaries built for several distros and architectures. I thought this was implicit. Either this, or we decide that the XO-1 with Fedora 11 is the only platform that will ever be fully supported by Sugar. Can we afford to do that? Not really... Why would we have to? Several good distros already exist... just pick one. No, actually, let's pick many! We can't pick one, because we wish to run on them all. We can't pick many, because then users cannot share Activity bundles. Hmmm, quite an unsolvable dilemma. Well, maybe not. We could make a few compromises that are actually quite acceptable in practice: * all noarch packages would be interchangeable between different CPUs * if two laptops happen to have the same architecture (highly likely within one school), they could exchange also the arch dependent packages * Even rpm could be made to work on non-rpm distributions, too. See http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/alien/ . This is a bit of a hack, but still more robust than the XO bundles. * Direct exchange of bundles between nearby laptops could be seen as an optimization. If the package is not of the right kind, the other laptop would fall back to the online repositories Last, but certainly not least, * Activity sharing is not even implemented, yet! We'll think about these esoteric scenarios when they come... if at all. The what if engineering often results in really bad engineering. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] The Future of Sugar on a Stick
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 01:03:37AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote: Ok - then the situation is this, then: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=Talk%3ASugar_on_a_Stickdiff=37874oldid=37820 It looks like the SoaS team is unblocked I don't see how the SoaS team was ever blocked on the things that are now unblocked (mailing list, start team/SL project). Sebastien was just going to do them[1]. Sebastien's original question[2] is unanswered perhaps because it's been deemed maybe-already-answered[3] or peripheral (your page) despite being important[4,5,6] and the fact that the thread is now over a hundred messages long. It's a week and a bit after the original mail already. This is a convincing demonstration of the utter failure in decision-making. I'm going to fall back on Daniel's advice[7] about letting the code do the talking, but I hope that the people that don't have this option get a better deal next time they need something clarified by SL. It's not hard to say no, but it takes a mailing list and a committee to really avoid saying it for so long and with such obfuscation, it seems. --Mel Martin 1. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008322.html 2. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008373.html 3. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008387.html 4. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008374.html 5. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008386.html 6. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008405.html 7. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008404.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep pgpmlah48WhTh.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] The Future of Sugar on a Stick
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 07:35:25AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: This is a convincing demonstration of the utter failure in decision-making. This is overly harsh, sorry. Martin pgpJ7r1g1U67L.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar evaluation and impact
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: We began this project last year, and I would be happy to share the results if anyone is interested. Best, Gerald Ardito thank you, i am interested in your current research too good luck and keep updated -- roberto ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] BBC's Rory Cellan-Jones on OLPC in Africa
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/09/can_a_laptop_change_the_world.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] XO Special interest group at Sugar Labs
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 05:54, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: 2009/9/21 David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org: The project is starting with work flow focused goals. 1. Create a team. 2. Create a release cycle. 3. Start cranking out releases each one better than the last. The missing gap in the current Sugar- distro- XO workflow is that CJB is working from the deployment and hardware back to the distro and Sugar. This is both necessary and exactly what OLPC _needs_ Chris to focus on. (Think of the relationship between redhat and fedora) But, he and the entire ecosystem would benefit from a time based release focus upstream. That way they can pick an upstream and spend six or eight months making it deployment ready rather than starting from scratch every year or eighteen months. I don't understand this. How is what you are proposing different from what has been done before, and is happening now? When are we starting from scratch? It would be great if you would bring your work into the project. As far as I can tell, you and Chris are the two most knowledgeable people working on this problem. Not sure what your time available is:) Hopefully, we can build a tight team to make your work more widely available. The goal is to provide a place where the various people working on 'upstream' XO, disto, and Sugar issues can come together, tighten focus, and make their work available to the widest possible audience. I think we have most of those things quite well covered already: - we have mailing lists for coming together, which are already being used for this purpose - we have hosting from OLPC - Stephen Parrish appears to be a focused buildmaster I think what's missing is developers and/or high-calibre testers who are able to provide detailed technical diagnosis of bugs. If your group could bring in some of those resources, it would be of huge value. I don't feel that a release cycle would be that useful. At least to me, that implies that you'll spend some time on feature development, then close that off for bug-fixes only as the release date nears. Well, really all the features have been developed already, and the only thing left is bug fixing anyway. And the couple of features that are missing are big regressions for deployments. I would think that putting a date on a release and closing the door to the feature regressions is not really going to do anything positive at this stage. What I think is needed is having a page in the wiki listing all the actions that need to be taken before the release is made. Knowing what areas need help and the progress of each one will allow us to better ask for help. That page should also be kept updated and we should advertise progress reports to increase the interest. I'm not sure we need a XO SIG in SLs because most of the work left to do is Sugar-independent, we would also need it if GNOME was deployed instead of Sugar. And there isn't so much XO-specific in Sugar itself. But of course, I don't oppose to anybody creating and running this SIG. Regards, Tomeu -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] BBC's Rory Cellan-Jones on OLPC in Africa
A mobile phone video report, following the dot.life blog post: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8268301.stm On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/09/can_a_laptop_change_the_world.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
I volunteer. I don't have a strong opinion yet, but am interested in the future of SoaS. When I give talks about OLPC and Sugar, there are almost always audience members who have used it. SJ On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi all, Sebastian Dziallas has asked for clarity on how the SoaS distribution he maintains is going to be treated and considered by SL. It doesn't seem that there's consensus, so we suggest forming a Decision Panel: On the rare occasion of a contentious issue on which no general consensus can be reached, the Oversight Board is responsible for convening a Decision Panel. The Oversight Board will be responsible for determining when a Decision Panel is required and for selecting members for the Decision Panel. Members of the Oversight Board are not permitted to serve on a Decision Panel. A Decision Panel will solicit community input, discuss (in private if they deem it necessary), reach a conclusion internally, and produce a report documenting their conclusion. (Anyone may submit advice to a Decision Panel.) The Oversight Board will review and ratify Decision Panel reports. -- http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Governance This mail is to ask for volunteers for the Decision Panel. Volunteers can be anyone with an interest in the outcome, and the Oversight Board will then vote on (a) whether to convene the panel, (b) who should be on the panel, and probably (c) what the decision being paneled is. :) Please volunteer by replying to this mail if you're interested, and please do so by Thursday September 24th so that we can run the vote at the Friday September 25th SLOBs meeting. Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
