Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Sebastian Silva]

Hello all,

On 25/02/17 20:33, Tymon Radzik wrote:
> Sugar Labs is by its statement *volunteer*-driven project. We are
> volunteers. We work for the idea of the free and open software and not
> for own financial profit.
It is worth to reflect upon this point. Certainly the design and
engineering teams of Redhat and OLPC that built Sugar in the first place
weren't unpaid volunteers. I like to think that we're all volunteers, in
that, we are not motivated by money, and if we could do more, we would.

(Lack of) Investment in software infrastructure for education is a large
void that ultimately implies a hidden cost of integration, field
support, even the impossibility of deployment. Who is doing this work
required to take Sugar* (a component) and make it into end user solutions?

While it is probably human nature to distrust, I think Laura is
proposing to shift from just hiring strangers that walk away after 3
months with $5000, to sustaining long term active members with a small
stipend for a year, in the hope (and trust) that they will increase
their effort and involvement, as well as attract more active
contributors. Whether this will result in a better Sugar a year from
now, and whether it is sustainable, remains to be seen, as well as the
specific dynamics of such a program.

The following is an excerpt from "Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor
Behind Our Digital Infrastructure" (license: CC-BY, author: Nadia
Eghbal)
<%22Roads%20and%20Bridges:%20The%20Unseen%20Labor%20Behind%20Our%20Digital%20Infrastructure%22%20%28license:%20CC-BY,%20author:%20Nadia%20Eghbal%29>

I recommend reading the whole book and we can think how it applies to a
project like Sugar Labs, that has no money making product, but rather is
a knowledge multiplying community, and how society can nurture it.

/*Open source’s complicated relationship with money*
(...)
The Linux Foundation was created in 2007 to help protect and
maintain Linux and its associated projects. Torvalds does not run
the Linux Foundation himself, preferring instead to receive a steady
salary as a “Linux Fellow” and work on his projects as an engineer. /

/While open source software is admirably rooted in a culture of
volunteerism and collaboration relatively untouched by extrinsic
motives, the reality is that our economy and society, from
multimillion dollar companies to government websites, depends on
open source. //
/

/Overall, this is probably a positive development for society. It
means that software is no longer strictly relegated to private,
proprietary development, as it ha d been for decades. The fact that
the United States government, or a social network website with
billions of users, incorporates community-built software, paints an
optimistic future for democracy. //
/

/In addition, many projects function well on a community basis if
they are on the extremes of size : that is, either small projects
that do not require significant maintenance (as in the example of
Arash Payan and Appirater), or very large projects that have found
significant corporate support (as in the example of Linux). //
/

/However, many projects are trapped somewhere in the middle: large
enough to require significant maintenance, but not quite so large
that corporations are clamoring to offer support. These are the
stories that go unnoticed and untold. From both sides, these
maintainers are told they are the problem: S mall project
maintainers think mid-sized maintainers should just learn to cope,
and large project maintainers think if the project were “good
enough,” institutional support would have already come to them. //
/

/There are also political concerns around financial support that
make it harder to find a reliable source of funding. A single
company may not want to sponsor development work that also benefits
their competitor, who paid nothing. A private benefactor may want
special privileges that threaten the neutrality of a project. (For
example, for security-related projects, privileged disclosure of
vulnerabilities — paying for special knowledge about security
vulnerabilities instead of exposing those vulnerabilities to the
public — is a controversial request.) And governments may have
political reasons to sponsor the development of a particular
project, or ask for special favors such as “backdoors” (a secret way
of bypassing security authentication), even if that project is used
internationally./

>
> I can't agree with the idea of monthly stipends (salaries) being paid
> to some members.
>
> Not only breaking something I considered to be a fundamental
> principle, it is also dividing the community. Our funds deserve to be
> spent in more orgnization-beneficial way. 
>
> Additionally, I don't want to accuse anyone personally, but current
> situation in our discussion could meet the d

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Samson Goddy]

As Dave and Caryl mentioned earlier, i think the best thing is to redefine
our missions, visions and goals. As Sameer said in the last video, "Sugar
and Sugar Labs are both different". He also gave an example using how
Drupal came up with theirs. So i think what should be our top priority to
keep these in check, so that we can be move forward.

At the last meeting, walter gave (Ignacio, Laura and me) tasks on how we
can attract funding to the Community, i came up with the idea of creating
awareness to the general public through SMM role. Which received negative
comments, due to the fact that it was attached with $$ which is normal for
a community like Sugar Labs to kick against. The reason why i tend to let
that motion slide down is that currently we are vision less. Previous years
it was alot easier because of OLPC activities.

So my question for the community  are.

What are these money for?

How do we get funds outside Google programs?

What will happen to Sugar Labs if Google terminates GSOC or GCI one day?

These are questions that i will love to have answers on.

Concerning possible loosing support for python version. I think of we have
good strategy of how sugar can impact learning in schools, i don't think
any version of sugar matters. Last year after my project, i started doing
research on SEED/OLPC schools. I got a call from a teacher in Southern Part
of Nigeria. He was telling me about xo machines in his schools. He told me
that for the past years, after SEED terminated the project. They stop using
the sugar because no body could support them. He also mention that his
school is willing to Re:sugar with over 1,000 xo machines working. I told
him i was going to contact the community for support. Which i did but
didn't get any response aside from Tony and Walter.

Concerning what Caryl was saying about paying teachers to test sugar in
schools. I think that is a great plan. But is shouldn't just focus on the
Sugarizer only yet. Of course i know JS is the feature but before that if
we can support python let us do it. "Let us use what we have to get want we
want". Example, i am planning a mega workshop in Nigeria, concerning
targeting school with E-learning capabilities. There are lot of schools in
Nigeria using tablet in class to play games. Why won't SL sit down and
think how we can get this schools to use Sugarizer  in their tablet, deploy
schools servers for collaborations. Install python version in computer labs
as my school did back in the olpc days.

I have the ability to do this, because what they care about is success
stories, how does this benefit our students. GCI can be a pinpoint, my
story about how i became what i am now was because of Sugar.

P.S i have been invited to a Scratch conference in Bordeaux, France. Which
is scheduled to happen in July i can't remember the date. Also a mini
scratch events in Nairobi, Kenya for prep talk which i am going to talk
about Sugar. All because i posted my passion about computer science in
Medium. So this is what we should be doing as a community not doing
otherwise.

Samson





On 26 Feb 2017 2:33 a.m., "Tymon Radzik"  wrote:

> Sugar Labs is by its statement *volunteer*-driven project. We are
> volunteers. We work for the idea of the free and open software and not for
> own financial profit.
>
> I can't agree with the idea of monthly stipends (salaries) being paid to
> some members.
>
> Not only breaking something I considered to be a fundamental principle, it
> is also dividing the community. Our funds deserve to be spent in more
> orgnization-beneficial way.
>
> Additionally, I don't want to accuse anyone personally, but current
> situation in our discussion could meet the definition of *conflict of
> interest* for some members involved...
>
> Best,
> Tymon
>
>
> sob., 25 lut 2017 o 23:46 użytkownik Chris Leonard <
> cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com> napisał:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Vargas 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-02-24 13:51 GMT-05:00 Caryl Bigenho :
>> >>
>> >> Hello Again
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Hola Caryl,
>> >>
>> >> The "Badge" proposal is a totally inappropriate use of SL funds and
>> could
>> >> result in litigation and the possible end of SugarLabs.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Please do elaborate on this. We have already allocated stipends for
>> active
>> > members in the past. As I recall Chris Leonard had an 8 month stipend
>> of US$
>> > 1,000.
>> >
>> > What would be difference?
>> >
>>
>> To clarify, I had negotiated a contract with Sugar Labs / SFC for a
>> monthly stipend to support the Translation Manager position.  I did
>> NOT submit a single invoice for that work (which I have been doing)
>> and allowed the contract to lapse.  I have not received a dime from
>> Sugar Labs funds in in the 10 years I have been volunteering and I
>> have come to regret that I opened the door to the current effort to
>> drain those funds into members pockets.
>>
>> I believe the funds (the majority of which come from the TripAdvisor
>> g

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Tymon Radzik]

Sugar Labs is by its statement *volunteer*-driven project. We are
volunteers. We work for the idea of the free and open software and not for
own financial profit.

I can't agree with the idea of monthly stipends (salaries) being paid to
some members.

Not only breaking something I considered to be a fundamental principle, it
is also dividing the community. Our funds deserve to be spent in more
orgnization-beneficial way.

Additionally, I don't want to accuse anyone personally, but current
situation in our discussion could meet the definition of *conflict of
interest* for some members involved...

Best,
Tymon


sob., 25 lut 2017 o 23:46 użytkownik Chris Leonard 
napisał:

> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Vargas 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2017-02-24 13:51 GMT-05:00 Caryl Bigenho :
> >>
> >> Hello Again
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Hola Caryl,
> >>
> >> The "Badge" proposal is a totally inappropriate use of SL funds and
> could
> >> result in litigation and the possible end of SugarLabs.
> >>
> >>
> > Please do elaborate on this. We have already allocated stipends for
> active
> > members in the past. As I recall Chris Leonard had an 8 month stipend of
> US$
> > 1,000.
> >
> > What would be difference?
> >
>
> To clarify, I had negotiated a contract with Sugar Labs / SFC for a
> monthly stipend to support the Translation Manager position.  I did
> NOT submit a single invoice for that work (which I have been doing)
> and allowed the contract to lapse.  I have not received a dime from
> Sugar Labs funds in in the 10 years I have been volunteering and I
> have come to regret that I opened the door to the current effort to
> drain those funds into members pockets.
>
> I believe the funds (the majority of which come from the TripAdvisor
> grant obtained by Walter) should go to their intended purpose,
> supporting TurtleArt promotion and internationalization and
> localization efforts.  I understand that for legal reasons the funds
> are officially considered fungible and in a general pool, but I
> believe we should honor the original intent of the donor.
>
> cjl
>
> I now regret having opened the door to paid efforts
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Chris Leonard]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Vargas  wrote:
>
>
> 2017-02-24 13:51 GMT-05:00 Caryl Bigenho :
>>
>> Hello Again
>>
>>
>
> Hola Caryl,
>>
>> The "Badge" proposal is a totally inappropriate use of SL funds and could
>> result in litigation and the possible end of SugarLabs.
>>
>>
> Please do elaborate on this. We have already allocated stipends for active
> members in the past. As I recall Chris Leonard had an 8 month stipend of US$
> 1,000.
>
> What would be difference?
>

To clarify, I had negotiated a contract with Sugar Labs / SFC for a
monthly stipend to support the Translation Manager position.  I did
NOT submit a single invoice for that work (which I have been doing)
and allowed the contract to lapse.  I have not received a dime from
Sugar Labs funds in in the 10 years I have been volunteering and I
have come to regret that I opened the door to the current effort to
drain those funds into members pockets.

I believe the funds (the majority of which come from the TripAdvisor
grant obtained by Walter) should go to their intended purpose,
supporting TurtleArt promotion and internationalization and
localization efforts.  I understand that for legal reasons the funds
are officially considered fungible and in a general pool, but I
believe we should honor the original intent of the donor.

cjl

I now regret having opened the door to paid efforts
___
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Lionel Laské]

Hi all,

+1 Caryl
I can't imagine a budget without a project proposal. Money could be a way
to solve issues. The issue could not be to spend money.
And yes, the most important thing is feedbacks from the field. It's why it
was super important to me to launch the first OLPC France Sugar deployment
in Madagascar 8 years ago and the first Sugarizer deployment this year.
More: today, every Sugarizer feature I'm thinking about is because of
feedbacks or issues we raised during our Sugar deployment.

I'm proud to see reference to Sugarizer in your previous exchange. Thanks
all for that.
By the way, Sugarizer need developers more than money.
Give me two tokens for the incoming GSoC and it will be more than all
badges!

Best regards from France.

  Lionel

2017-02-25 20:47 GMT+01:00 Caryl Bigenho :

> Hi All,
>
>
> OK, it's time to get real. The problem with all of this talk is that most
> (but not all) of you haven't a clue how teachers and schools operate!
> Unless SugarLabs' products are targeted to perceived needs of teachers,
> parents, school boards, school owners, after school tutoring services,
> etc., etc., etc. They will never achieve wide distribution and use. Here
> are some things that MUST be done (and so far haven't been done on a
> meaningful scale).
>
>
> * Stakeholders are polled to find out what the needs of their students are.
>
> * Products are tailored to specifically meet those needs.
>
> * Documentation is produced with easy to understand instructions for
> installing and using the product.
>
> * Sample lessons and lesson plans are prepared by teachers who have
> experience using the product.
>
> * Everything is translated into the languages of the target markets.
>
> * Follow-up is done with new users to determine if any changes and
> improvements are needed.
>
> * Needed changes are made and the users are provided an easy way to update.
>
>
> Free is good, but teachers and schools don't want to waste their time on
> something that doesn't meet their needs even if it is free. This requires
> that all of these things I list above be done, and maybe more that some of
> you will think of. This applies to all of SugarLabs products, Sugar,
> Sugarizer, TurtleBlocks, MusicBlocks, Servers, and anything new that may
> be created to add to the mix.
>
>
> All of this costs money, which SL will not have if we spend it on a bunch
> of Badges given out mostly to SLOB members. Badges are not the way to go!
> They guarantee nothing! Projects fulfilling the criteria listed above with
> specific duties and specific remuneration are what we need.
>
>
> So, write a good proposal for a project that meets a specific, proveble,
> need. Submit it. Get it funded. Work on it. Budget to pay yourself a
> reasonable amount to make it happen.  If you folks need and want SL funds,
> that should be what you do to get them. Not just drawing a dole for being
> you.
>
>
> Sorry for the rant! But these are things that needed to be said and at my
> age, I guess I have to be the one to do it!
>
>
> Caryl (aka GrannieB)
>
>
>
> P.S. It really breaks my heart that we missed the opportunity to try for
> the Global Learning XPrize.
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* IAEP  on behalf of Dave
> Crossland 
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 25, 2017 10:46:41 AM
> *To:* Walter Bender
> *Cc:* Adam Holt; Lionel Laské; Tony Anderson; SLOBs; Sam P.; Samson
> Goddy; Martin Abente Lahaye; iaep
> *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget
>
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2017 6:27 PM, "Walter Bender"  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:
>> > Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
>> > releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
>> > only reaches one.
>> >
>> > One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
>> > cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
>> > it would be better to shut it down.
>>
>> Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
>> sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
>> software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
>> years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
>> software.
>>
>> You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.
>>
>
> I am obviously a fan of Turtle (and Music Blocks), but I am convinced
> that, for example, Sugar on Raspberry PI has a big future. It is a very
> experience, relatively easy to set up, and a good fit for the maker space.
> We should push hard to really make the process smooth and robust.
>
>
> Sugar or sugarizer? 😂
>
> How many classrooms do we know of using the latest sugar release on pi
> hardware? 🤣
>
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi All,


OK, it's time to get real. The problem with all of this talk is that most (but 
not all) of you haven't a clue how teachers and schools operate! Unless 
SugarLabs' products are targeted to perceived needs of teachers, parents, 
school boards, school owners, after school tutoring services, etc., etc., etc. 
They will never achieve wide distribution and use. Here are some things that 
MUST be done (and so far haven't been done on a meaningful scale).


* Stakeholders are polled to find out what the needs of their students are.

* Products are tailored to specifically meet those needs.

* Documentation is produced with easy to understand instructions for installing 
and using the product.

* Sample lessons and lesson plans are prepared by teachers who have experience 
using the product.

* Everything is translated into the languages of the target markets.

* Follow-up is done with new users to determine if any changes and improvements 
are needed.

* Needed changes are made and the users are provided an easy way to update.


Free is good, but teachers and schools don't want to waste their time on 
something that doesn't meet their needs even if it is free. This requires that 
all of these things I list above be done, and maybe more that some of you will 
think of. This applies to all of SugarLabs products, Sugar, Sugarizer, 
TurtleBlocks, MusicBlocks, Servers, and anything new that may be created to add 
to the mix.


All of this costs money, which SL will not have if we spend it on a bunch of 
Badges given out mostly to SLOB members. Badges are not the way to go! They 
guarantee nothing! Projects fulfilling the criteria listed above with specific 
duties and specific remuneration are what we need.


So, write a good proposal for a project that meets a specific, proveble, need. 
Submit it. Get it funded. Work on it. Budget to pay yourself a reasonable 
amount to make it happen.  If you folks need and want SL funds, that should be 
what you do to get them. Not just drawing a dole for being you.


Sorry for the rant! But these are things that needed to be said and at my age, 
I guess I have to be the one to do it!


Caryl (aka GrannieB)



P.S. It really breaks my heart that we missed the opportunity to try for the 
Global Learning XPrize.





From: IAEP  on behalf of Dave Crossland 

Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 10:46:41 AM
To: Walter Bender
Cc: Adam Holt; Lionel Laské; Tony Anderson; SLOBs; Sam P.; Samson Goddy; Martin 
Abente Lahaye; iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget



On Feb 25, 2017 6:27 PM, "Walter Bender" 
mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Sam Parkinson 
mailto:sam@sam.today>> wrote:
On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:
> Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
> releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
> only reaches one.
>
> One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
> cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
> it would be better to shut it down.

Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
software.

You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.

I am obviously a fan of Turtle (and Music Blocks), but I am convinced that, for 
example, Sugar on Raspberry PI has a big future. It is a very experience, 
relatively easy to set up, and a good fit for the maker space. We should push 
hard to really make the process smooth and robust.

Sugar or sugarizer? 😂

How many classrooms do we know of using the latest sugar release on pi 
hardware? 🤣
___
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Dave Crossland]

On Feb 25, 2017 6:27 PM, "Walter Bender"  wrote:



On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Sam Parkinson  wrote:

> On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:
> > Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
> > releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
> > only reaches one.
> >
> > One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
> > cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
> > it would be better to shut it down.
>
> Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
> sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
> software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
> years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
> software.
>
> You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.
>

I am obviously a fan of Turtle (and Music Blocks), but I am convinced that,
for example, Sugar on Raspberry PI has a big future. It is a very
experience, relatively easy to set up, and a good fit for the maker space.
We should push hard to really make the process smooth and robust.


Sugar or sugarizer? 😂

How many classrooms do we know of using the latest sugar release on pi
hardware? 🤣
___
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Laura Vargas]

2017-02-25 7:57 GMT-05:00 Walter Bender :

>
>
> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:
>> > Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
>> > releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
>> > only reaches one.
>> >
>> > One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
>> > cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
>> > it would be better to shut it down.
>>
>> Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
>> sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
>> software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
>> years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
>> software.
>>
>> You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.
>>
>
> I am obviously a fan of Turtle (and Music Blocks), but I am convinced
> that, for example, Sugar on Raspberry PI has a big future. It is a very
> experience, relatively easy to set up, and a good fit for the maker space.
> We should push hard to really make the process smooth and robust.
>
> -walter
>
>
>>
>>
Thank you Walter  and everyone else's feedback!

I love your ideas and let me tell you that I have only intentions and many
ideas for Sugar's Community to work :D

The Open Badges proposal is clearly part of the Marketing Plan as we also
need to upgrade our internal relationships and Communications.

[Budget Note: Dave, Adam I think it would be ok to use General Funds? still
before any motion is formulated we can double check with SFC]

I do believe more than 1 user can be defined as an experience and therefore
I disagree with Dave that for example Social Help should be shot down.


I believe in meritocracy and I feel I was short in the list of Super Hero
Badges I would like to create and also in the amount of contributors I
would like SL to graphicly and openly recognize their achievements, but I
understand we have limited resources and therefore I planned for that case.


Regards, blessings and the best weekend to all.


Laura Victoria

PS: With the help of the light, I'll be working in the wiki page for a
draft proposal regarding the Open badges taking into consideration
everyones feedback.

✾ ✿ ❁ ❃ ❋



> --
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>> https://www.sam.today/
>>
>> Latest blog post: Local Politicians Meet InfoSec - a Wordpress Disaster -
>> https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/local-politicians-meet-in
>> fosec-a-wordpress-disaster/
>> ___
>> SLOBs mailing list
>> sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/slobs
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Laura V.
* I&D SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“No paradox, no progress.”
~ Niels Bohr

Happy Learning!
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Walter Bender]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Sam Parkinson  wrote:

> On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:
> > Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
> > releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
> > only reaches one.
> >
> > One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
> > cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
> > it would be better to shut it down.
>
> Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
> sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
> software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
> years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
> software.
>
> You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.
>

I am obviously a fan of Turtle (and Music Blocks), but I am convinced that,
for example, Sugar on Raspberry PI has a big future. It is a very
experience, relatively easy to set up, and a good fit for the maker space.
We should push hard to really make the process smooth and robust.

-walter


>
> --
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> https://www.sam.today/
>
> Latest blog post: Local Politicians Meet InfoSec - a Wordpress Disaster -
> https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/local-politicians-meet-
> infosec-a-wordpress-disaster/
> ___
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> sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/slobs
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Sam Parkinson]

On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:
> Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
> releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
> only reaches one. 
> 
> One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
> cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
> it would be better to shut it down. 

Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
software.

You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.

-- 
Thanks,
Sam

https://www.sam.today/

Latest blog post: Local Politicians Meet InfoSec - a Wordpress Disaster - 
https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/local-politicians-meet-infosec-a-wordpress-disaster/
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