Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
+1 to Learners. Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's start with the positive: * What do you like about Sugar? * What concerns do you have about Sugar? * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? -walter On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have Activities instead of applications, shouldn't we have Doers instead of users? I fully agree we shouldn't have users of Sugar Activities. I like Doers, but I think Learners may roll off the tongue more easily. Suggestions please. On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a two-line survey of our Learners around the world: * What do you not like about Sugar? * What do you like about Sugar? Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) Can we start with this wire, and work our way up to a bridge? Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no info about it. ideas please thanks Sean ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. SJ On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Eben Eliason eben.elia...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: +1 to Learners. I prefer learners to users also. But i wonder, will this result in overloading the common term learners with our own specific meaning? is that good or just confusing? I could see this causing confusion, though I agree in principle and hate the term user myself. Some good books on interaction design also discuss this unfortunate term, but fail to provide a better alternative. It might be acceptable to permit the term within the context of development (eg. in technical mailing lists, in bug reports, etc.), while strictly avoiding it in general purpose materials such as the website and in users manuals. When drafting the HIG, I carefully avoided this term, instead simply referring to kids or children, or using various pronouns when repeated reference to one of these unnamed children is needed. Eben david Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's start with the positive: * What do you like about Sugar? * What concerns do you have about Sugar? * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? -walter On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have Activities instead of applications, shouldn't we have Doers instead of users? I fully agree we shouldn't have users of Sugar Activities. I like Doers, but I think Learners may roll off the tongue more easily. Suggestions please. On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a two-line survey of our Learners around the world: * What do you not like about Sugar? * What do you like about Sugar? Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) Can we start with this wire, and work our way up to a bridge? Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no info about it. ideas please thanks Sean ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. I really like the term Learners. It indicates awareness - active participation. The term Users to me is more related to Consumers (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not Users either :-P I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a Sugar Distributor. Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it Authors instead of Developers. Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content Writers/Composers/Illustrators. Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → Learners (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. Regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI =+yH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing things in untraditional ways. I can't bring myself to call my kids users of Sugar. Yet, a name for their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared experience with others who are there to do something very similar. We find it normal to class people by what they do: Chess players practice openings. Knitters often prefer purl stitching. Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible. In each of these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are descriptive in a way users can't be, it's too generic. The idea behind users is to be all-inclusive, since computers are general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is a special case because its users are children... and I appreciate Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my view. To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. Teachers will understand it right away I think. Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. I really like the term Learners. It indicates awareness - active participation. The term Users to me is more related to Consumers (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not Users either :-P I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a Sugar Distributor. Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it Authors instead of Developers. Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content Writers/Composers/Illustrators. Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → Learners (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. Regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI =+yH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
2009/5/26 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com: Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing things in untraditional ways. I can't bring myself to call my kids users of Sugar. Yet, a name for their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared experience with others who are there to do something very similar. We find it normal to class people by what they do: Chess players practice openings. Knitters often prefer purl stitching. Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible. In each of these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are descriptive in a way users can't be, it's too generic. The idea behind users is to be all-inclusive, since computers are general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is a special case because its users are children... and I appreciate Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my view. To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. Teachers will understand it right away I think. Sounds reasonable. david Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. I really like the term Learners. It indicates awareness - active participation. The term Users to me is more related to Consumers (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not Users either :-P I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a Sugar Distributor. Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it Authors instead of Developers. Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content Writers/Composers/Illustrators. Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → Learners (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. Regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI =+yH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
We might want to simplify the language a bit for kids... I'm not sure kids would be able to offer a coherent answer to the third question, even if they know who we are :-) (note to self: put photo of community in as easter egg?) How about wishlist fishing? What would you like to do with Sugar that you can't do today? or... What should the people who make Sugar do next? (recognizing that understandably, many kids will likely bring up hardware not just software and to the latter question we will get answers like take a long rest after programming so hard) Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: +1 to Learners. Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's start with the positive: * What do you like about Sugar? * What concerns do you have about Sugar? * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? -walter On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have Activities instead of applications, shouldn't we have Doers instead of users? I fully agree we shouldn't have users of Sugar Activities. I like Doers, but I think Learners may roll off the tongue more easily. Suggestions please. On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a two-line survey of our Learners around the world: * What do you not like about Sugar? * What do you like about Sugar? Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) Can we start with this wire, and work our way up to a bridge? Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no info about it. ideas please thanks Sean ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
2009/5/26 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com: Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing things in untraditional ways. I can't bring myself to call my kids users of Sugar. Yet, a name for their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared experience with others who are there to do something very similar. We find it normal to class people by what they do: Chess players practice openings. Knitters often prefer purl stitching. Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible. In each of these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are descriptive in a way users can't be, it's too generic. The idea behind users is to be all-inclusive, since computers are general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is a special case because its users are children... and I appreciate Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my view. To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. Teachers will understand it right away I think. Yeah, I buy that. Another reasonable term (in keeping with Activities) would be Actor, but unfortunately that's already a term overloaded in a number of ways, both in the specific sense of the thespian, or in a wholly generic sense of an actor in a system (which has pretty negative connotations with regards to our Learners!). I think it will be clear enough that the term Learner relates most directly to children, but by proxy to all other individuals engaging the Sugar UI, such as teachers, developers, etc., so I like it. It might take some getting used to, though, and it still might be friendlier in some cases to say When a child does x, the interface does y instead of When a Learner does x, the interface does y. But I can see Learner having god applications, and particularly in the aggregate: The Sugar community wants Learners to grow through their interaction with Sugar... Eben Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. I really like the term Learners. It indicates awareness - active participation. The term Users to me is more related to Consumers (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not Users either :-P I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a Sugar Distributor. Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it Authors instead of Developers. Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content Writers/Composers/Illustrators. Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → Learners (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. Regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI =+yH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our users
Another thought is Kid and Grown-Up. If we called our users Kids it would emphasis that we are always thinking about our age range when we work on Sugar. We are building a tool especially for kids and the grownups (teachers, parents etc.) who help them learn. 2009/5/26 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing things in untraditional ways. I can't bring myself to call my kids users of Sugar. Yet, a name for their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared experience with others who are there to do something very similar. We find it normal to class people by what they do: Chess players practice openings. Knitters often prefer purl stitching. Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible. In each of these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are descriptive in a way users can't be, it's too generic. The idea behind users is to be all-inclusive, since computers are general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is a special case because its users are children... and I appreciate Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my view. To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. Teachers will understand it right away I think. Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. I really like the term Learners. It indicates awareness - active participation. The term Users to me is more related to Consumers (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not Users either :-P I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a Sugar Distributor. Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it Authors instead of Developers. Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content Writers/Composers/Illustrators. Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → Learners (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. Regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI =+yH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
