Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
Hi Ron, Well, the field itself really doesn't have a good overview of the strongest ideas it has had since 1950. So I certainly don't get upset when anyone randomly isn't aware of something that happened 40 years ago. But researchers and engineers need to be a lot more careful about checking out prior art. The lack of this has led to the odd phenomena since the 1980s of reinventing the flat tire. Some of these that were really done badly (like the web browser, various bad scripting languages and UIs) have held things back for decades (and still are). I predict that you will be amazed by Dave Reed's thesis. We implemented it a few years ago and it is now both an open source foundation (Croquet) and a startup (Teleplace). Cheers, Alan From: Ron Teitelbaum hor...@earthlink.net To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Mon, February 7, 2011 8:32:40 AM Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Thank you for humoring me. I stand corrected. I haven’t read David’s thesis. Just downloaded it. Thanks for the suggestion. Ron From:Alan Kay [mailto:alan.n...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:21 AM To: Ron Teitelbaum; Chunka Mui Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org mailing list; america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Hi Ron, I've already played this game ad nauseum with many groups on the web. So I urge everyone to rise above the temptation to name your favorite idea that seems new. But do you really think there were no peer to peer and cloud computing systems already deployed before 1980? (Hint: I used both quite a lot back then, and for a short time actually was in charge of an ARPA task group to define an AI cloud resource for the already running ARPAnet -- the one that got built was a multiple processor system (C.mmp) designed by Gordon Bell) For much larger issues and inventions than DHT, let me refer you to the 1978 PhD thesis of David Reed (popularly known as the '/' in TCP/IP) at MIT.1978. If you haven't heard of David or read this thesis, then this helps make my main point. Since it would be really improbable for me to be aware of all developments after 1980 (and even some before), I don't claim there have been none. I simply asked for 3 (or even one) since 1980 comparable to personal computing, GUIs, the Internet, Engelbart's notion of online system, etc. Previous essays into this yielded many suggestions, but I was able to identify prior art for all such. For example, Tim Berners-Lee was suitably embarrassed when he found out about Engelbart - first for the web not doing as well in the design, goals and execution, and secondly, because as a physicist he would have been drummed out of Physics if he had not tried to stand on the shoulders of giants (as Newton said), and he had assumed falsely (and I think partly because our field is so careless about its historical great steps up) that computing had no Netwons, and the Internet had somehow just appeared without thought out purposes, and he failed to look for them. Best wishes, Alan From:Ron Teitelbaum hor...@earthlink.net To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 7:28:18 AM Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Hi Alan, One thing that comes to mind right away is DHT research. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the 90’ saw the birth of DHT, P2P and Cloud Computing. Ron Teitelbaum From:squeakland-boun...@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-boun...@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Alan Kay Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:12 PM To: Chunka Mui Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org mailing list; america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Hi Chunka, I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up
Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
I don't think of teachers or teaching as dirty words. And I don't separate them by age group, profession, or whether parents or not. (Do I have to say that good teachers facilitate learning ?) There are lots of poor teachers in the world (for many different reasons), but it's important to understand that no child ever invented Calculus, nor did any adult until very recently in our 200,000 years on the planet. Good teachers are vital, and most especially for the powerful invented ideas and knowledge that is less strongly built into our genetically and culturally fashioned brain/minds. So we need good teachers from our peers, our parents, our schooling systems, our vocations, our delights, etc. Best wishes, Alan From: K. K. Subramaniam kksubbu...@gmail.com To: squeakl...@squeakland.org Cc: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Chunka Mui chunka@devilsadvocategroup.com; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 6:36:38 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric A lot of thought provoking ideas listed in one mail. Wow! On Sunday 06 Feb 2011 5:20:15 am Alan Kay wrote: For the US, it has been calculated that it is not possible to create enough knowledgeable K-8 teachers for math and science over the next 25 years, even for the 30:1 student teacher ratios we have today. It has been estimated that this problem is much worse in the developing world. Student-Teacher ratio is about teaching not learning. I learnt the hard way that a different mind-set is needed to work with learning. Parents and Family seems to have done a fairly good job in the 0-6 year range. When we get into the next stage (6-12), the learning environment breaks down. Mothers don't go around with a growth chart and taunt their babies with You should have been crawling by six months. You will get a C for your crawling. Sit facing the wall for the next five minutes! ;-). In India at least, families are held responsible for their children's development. In the next stage, why not hold teachers responsible for outcomes but facilitate them to achieve their goals using whatever they find appropriate? In one exercise, we worked with teachers across 120 rural schools near Bangalore to attain one specific goal, 'get every student to read Kannada and Division by 7th grade' using whatever means at their disposal, even if they have to take assistance from locals who are not teachers but like being with children. Teachers took the help of external evaluators to detect non-learners in June to create a target set. When the eval was repeated six months later, the number dropped to near zero in 102 schools. Other schools are now catching up. The effect of empowerment spilled over into other topics and boosted the overall morale of students. The marginal funding required for this exercise was trivial. Computers can represent books and all other media, and they should be able to actively help us learn to read them (even if we start off not being able to read at all). Children will learn to read only when they have to read to learn. The thirst for knowledge has to go beyond what they can get from their family or school. This is a challenge in countries like India with dense population and an oral tradition. The chasm between pre-literate to semi-literate is quite large. A teacher in a rural public school narrated a case of a 6th grade student who wouldn't write or read and was at the bottom grade. When we introduced computers into the school, he was attracted to TeX morph in Etoys that typeset multilingual texts. He played with this morph sporadically over four months to generate various letter shapes and words (including misspellings) and then broke into fluent writing and reading. He had stumbled on a strong reason to read. Once he crossed the chasm, he stopped using the computer and switched over to books. Computer became a complex device. This incident had a big impact on the teacher who was, at that time, in her third trimester of her pregnancy. The great funding in the 60s was done mostly by the government, and for personal computing and pervasive networks was spread over more than 15 universities and research companies who formed a cooperative research community. (The story of this is told in The Dream Machine by Mitchel Waldrop). Given the scale and scope of education, public funding and social participation is the only solution. Private funding comes with too many strings attached :-(. Subbu ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP
Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
Hi Ron, I've already played this game ad nauseum with many groups on the web. So I urge everyone to rise above the temptation to name your favorite idea that seems new. But do you really think there were no peer to peer and cloud computing systems already deployed before 1980? (Hint: I used both quite a lot back then, and for a short time actually was in charge of an ARPA task group to define an AI cloud resource for the already running ARPAnet -- the one that got built was a multiple processor system (C.mmp) designed by Gordon Bell) For much larger issues and inventions than DHT, let me refer you to the 1978 PhD thesis of David Reed (popularly known as the '/' in TCP/IP) at MIT.1978. If you haven't heard of David or read this thesis, then this helps make my main point. Since it would be really improbable for me to be aware of all developments after 1980 (and even some before), I don't claim there have been none. I simply asked for 3 (or even one) since 1980 comparable to personal computing, GUIs, the Internet, Engelbart's notion of online system, etc. Previous essays into this yielded many suggestions, but I was able to identify prior art for all such. For example, Tim Berners-Lee was suitably embarrassed when he found out about Engelbart - first for the web not doing as well in the design, goals and execution, and secondly, because as a physicist he would have been drummed out of Physics if he had not tried to stand on the shoulders of giants (as Newton said), and he had assumed falsely (and I think partly because our field is so careless about its historical great steps up) that computing had no Netwons, and the Internet had somehow just appeared without thought out purposes, and he failed to look for them. Best wishes, Alan From: Ron Teitelbaum hor...@earthlink.net To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 7:28:18 AM Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Hi Alan, One thing that comes to mind right away is DHT research. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the 90’ saw the birth of DHT, P2P and Cloud Computing. Ron Teitelbaum From:squeakland-boun...@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-boun...@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Alan Kay Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:12 PM To: Chunka Mui Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org mailing list; america-lat...@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Hi Chunka, I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980. This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions. Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of innovation based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed. Cheers, Alan From:Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)? Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was). And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since
Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
, meaning that given the high risk and high payoff of the research, they only needed to bat .350 and the world will be changed). Today's funders want certainty, and this is engineering at best, and this does not change the world because the hard important problems never get worked on. Best wishes Alan From: Chunka Mui chunka@devilsadvocategroup.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakl...@squeakland.org squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 1:31:45 PM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric Alan -- I’ve seen many organizations claim to be committed to “innovation,” while eschewing “invention.” Everyone harvesting while refusing to sow makes for bad strategy, both societal and corporate. I guess it’s “rational” in some short-term sense and another example of the free rider problem. There’s an insidious side-effect as well. By rejecting invention, those organizations implicitly or explicitly restrict the consideration set for even incremental innovation. It’s hard to reach for even small aspirations if you’re always being told to not be “too far out.” So my experience matches your general point. I don’t make much experience, however, with the specific example that you were referring to. I’d like to hear more about your perspective about the guiding principles pre and post ‘82, and how each set of leaders/funders rationalized their viewpoints. I’d also be interested in your sense of the trend on this topic, since we have a new generation of high tech corporate leaders and funders and, clearly, another round of massive wealth being generated. Regards, Chunka On 2/5/11 1:11 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Chunka, I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980. This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions. Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of innovation based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed. Cheers, Alan From: Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)? Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was). And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since 1982. Alan -- Could you say more about this point? Surely there's been tons of CS and IT funding since '82, both govt funding to universities and massive research budgets at msft, hp, Regards, Chunka Cheers, Alan From:Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com To: america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakland.org http://squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ
Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 14:11, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Chunka, I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980. Second the motion. The Internet comes from DARPA. Interactive, collaborative computing comes from Doug Engelbart's group at SRI, with government funding. Alan's work on Smalltalk at Xerox was founded directly on Doug's. The Apple Mac (and Lisa) GUI and Windows are just high-budget, low-concept retoolings of parts of Smalltalk, without the good stuff. The innovations in education that I use come from Maria Montessori, Jean Piaget, Georges Cuisenaire, Caleb Gattigno, and others in the early to mid 20th century. The pioneers of computers in education include Omar Khayyam Moore (who supplemented the computer with a graduate student), Ken Iverson, and Seymour Papert in the 1960s. Almost all of the rest of us are working out details from their great insights, or more often ignoring most of their work to concentrate on some tiny part of it. Men of one idea, like a hen with one chick, and that a duckling.--Henry David Thoreau Alan has asked what Silicon Valley will do when it runs out of Doug Engelbart's ideas. I don't think the situation is globally that dire, but I do think that the next wave will not come from Silicon Valley, but from somewhere unexpected, quite likely some place where our XO children are allowed sufficient freedom to innovate, or find ways to do it regardless. However, there is a substantial movement now to replace printed textbooks with less expensive computers with Free Software and Creative Commons content. There is a substantial movement to create unencumbered content, particularly in academic publishing. There is not a very rapid uptake of these tools in school systems, but it is early days yet. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.--Mahatma Gandhi Then they claim that it was their idea all along.--Edward Mokurai Cherlin I am in discussions with Dan Cohen the Mathman, mathman.biz, over his Calculus By and For Young People, and with the company that Caleb Gattegno founded to commercialize his Silent Way of teaching languages, for donations of content to Sugar. I will be talking with the Squeakland list about putting their approaches into Etoys software. This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions. Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of innovation based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed. The problem in education research goes much deeper than lack of funding. It is deeply political, and touches many people's sense of who and what they are, including parents, teachers, school administrations, and politicians. There are worms that got initial research funding, but the political environment is so toxic that we cannot use the results. An example of a toxic dispute that is not overtly political is whole word vs. phonics in teaching reading. Both are required in English, which has many variant spellings for its phonemes, and words such as 'once' that conform to no rule at all. One of the political dimensions of this and related disputes is that teachers refuse to discuss linguistics research. In part it is a status thing, a Thorstein Veblen/Theory of the Leisure Class phenomenon, because teachers want to teach the high-status version of any language, not the vernacular, and because teachers have been losing status in the US for decades, with shrinking pay, benefits, and rights, and constant attacks from political grandstanders. An example of a purely political dispute is evolutionary biology vs. Creationism, where some Creationists have convinced themselves that Darwin is the Apostle of the Antichrist, and most agree that science is part of a plot to destroy all that is good and true in human society. Sex education is to them the clearest symptom that this moral decay is deliberate. Cheers, Alan From: Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
What about the world wide web? That is usually credited to have been invented in 1990 at CERN. Of course we all stand on the shoulders who have gone before us. Martin sevior - Reply message - From: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, Feb 6, 2011 6:11 am Subject: [IAEP] [squeakland] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric To: Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org, squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org, america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org, Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com, Maho 2010 m...@realness.org, olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org, IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Hi Chunka, I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980. This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions. Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of innovation based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed. Cheers, Alan From: Chunka Mui chu...@cornerloft.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com; america-lat...@squeakland.org america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)? Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was). And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since 1982. Alan -- Could you say more about this point? Surely there's been tons of CS and IT funding since '82, both govt funding to universities and massive research budgets at msft, hp, Regards, Chunka Cheers, Alan From: Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com To: america-lat...@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 m...@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcp...@gmail.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ-l5KUJ_PWkQruLDx-nZ7nsKDfg4idDlsU50 Carlos Rabassa ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ squeakland mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
