Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 09:49, Edward Cherlin wrote: > I recommend that you not worry about Albert. He doesn't get it, and > doesn't see why anybody else should. He says that he wants nothing to > do with Constructionism. Can we declare that discussing if it's worth trying to do things differently is off topic in the Sugar mailing lists? Otherwise, we will waste quite a bit of time with every troll that decides to hang around here. I think that if we thought that challenging the status quo wasn't something worth trying, we wouldn't be subscribed to these mailing lists in the first place. We have lots of work to do and lots of useful criticism to process. Regards, Tomeu > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:17:23 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar >>> From: acaha...@gmail.com >>> To: cbige...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> >>> Caryl Bigenho writes: >>> >>> > One man sat in front of the XO for several minutes with a puzzled >>> > look on his face. Finally he asked, "Where is your file manager?" >>> > I explained that he needed to forget everything he knew about >>> > computers and just pretend he was a child again. He got up in >>> > disgust and left. >>> >>> He asked a simple question and you blew him off. Adults use >>> communication to avoid wasting time. >>> Had you tried to explain, you might have gotten better feedback. >>> Of course, then you need to avoid being dismissive of the feedback. >> >> No, I didn't "blow him off" at all. I started to explain it to him and as >> you might say "he blew me off." >>> >>> > Meanwhile, nearby, a little boy, about 8-years-old was happily >>> > exploring Sugar. >>> >>> I'm sure he was, but "exploring" is not the same thing as being >>> productive. >> >> It was his first experience. He took a picture and was delighted. Other >> children came by who had used the XO before and actually showed some of the >> adults how to create things in Squeak and Synth Lab. This is not what I >> would call not being productive in either case. >> >> The next time you spend an entire weekend managing a booth, alone most of >> the time, with 7 XOs and hundreds of visitors and no lunch breaks I will >> give more credence to your remarks. Thank goodness Jonathan Pfeiffer came >> to help out on Sunday and my non-techie husband handed me food as I was >> talking to people about the XO, Sugar, the CP, volunteering and the like. >> >> Sorry for the rant folks, those of you who know me know this is very rare. >> >> Caryl >> >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > > > > -- > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > http://earthtreasury.net/ (Ed Cherlin) > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
I recommend that you not worry about Albert. He doesn't get it, and doesn't see why anybody else should. He says that he wants nothing to do with Constructionism. On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: > > >> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:17:23 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar >> From: acaha...@gmail.com >> To: cbige...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org >> >> Caryl Bigenho writes: >> >> > One man sat in front of the XO for several minutes with a puzzled >> > look on his face. Finally he asked, "Where is your file manager?" >> > I explained that he needed to forget everything he knew about >> > computers and just pretend he was a child again. He got up in >> > disgust and left. >> >> He asked a simple question and you blew him off. Adults use >> communication to avoid wasting time. >> Had you tried to explain, you might have gotten better feedback. >> Of course, then you need to avoid being dismissive of the feedback. > > No, I didn't "blow him off" at all. I started to explain it to him and as > you might say "he blew me off." >> >> > Meanwhile, nearby, a little boy, about 8-years-old was happily >> > exploring Sugar. >> >> I'm sure he was, but "exploring" is not the same thing as being >> productive. > > It was his first experience. He took a picture and was delighted. Other > children came by who had used the XO before and actually showed some of the > adults how to create things in Squeak and Synth Lab. This is not what I > would call not being productive in either case. > > The next time you spend an entire weekend managing a booth, alone most of > the time, with 7 XOs and hundreds of visitors and no lunch breaks I will > give more credence to your remarks. Thank goodness Jonathan Pfeiffer came > to help out on Sunday and my non-techie husband handed me food as I was > talking to people about the XO, Sugar, the CP, volunteering and the like. > > Sorry for the rant folks, those of you who know me know this is very rare. > > Caryl > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.net/ (Ed Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Monkey see, monkey do? Heh! That's how *I* learn program! Perl by reading cpan modules, php by working on moodle, bash by hacking on git, erlang by working on ejabberd, etc, etc. -- martin.maca...@gmail.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Albert Cahalan wrote: > Caryl Bigenho writes: > >> One man sat in front of the XO for several minutes with a puzzled >> look on his face. Finally he asked, "Where is your file manager?" >> I explained that he needed to forget everything he knew about >> computers and just pretend he was a child again. He got up in >> disgust and left. > > He asked a simple question and you blew him off. Adults use > communication to avoid wasting time. > > Had you tried to explain, you might have gotten better feedback. > Of course, then you need to avoid being dismissive of the feedback. > >> Meanwhile, nearby, a little boy, about 8-years-old was happily >> exploring Sugar. > > I'm sure he was, but "exploring" is not the same thing as being > productive. Why does it have to be about being productive, and not about exploring? I deal with plenty of college students who all try to be "productive", but never really learned to explore. Guess what? We have become a sausage factory of sorts! Crank the handle and out comes ground meat, ready to be packaged and sold. Critical thinkers? No. Analytical? No. Monkey see, monkey do? All the time! Seeing children in Khairat use the journal with ease removed any doubts in my mind as to why Sugar doesn't have a file manager. These kids don't even know what a "file" looks like! Why bother with a metaphor that is as clear as mud for them? Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:17:23 -0500 > Subject: Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar > From: acaha...@gmail.com > To: cbige...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org > > Caryl Bigenho writes: > > > One man sat in front of the XO for several minutes with a puzzled > > look on his face. Finally he asked, "Where is your file manager?" > > I explained that he needed to forget everything he knew about > > computers and just pretend he was a child again. He got up in > > disgust and left. > > He asked a simple question and you blew him off. Adults use > communication to avoid wasting time. > Had you tried to explain, you might have gotten better feedback. > Of course, then you need to avoid being dismissive of the feedback. No, I didn't "blow him off" at all. I started to explain it to him and as you might say "he blew me off." > > > Meanwhile, nearby, a little boy, about 8-years-old was happily > > exploring Sugar. > > I'm sure he was, but "exploring" is not the same thing as being > productive. It was his first experience. He took a picture and was delighted. Other children came by who had used the XO before and actually showed some of the adults how to create things in Squeak and Synth Lab. This is not what I would call not being productive in either case. The next time you spend an entire weekend managing a booth, alone most of the time, with 7 XOs and hundreds of visitors and no lunch breaks I will give more credence to your remarks. Thank goodness Jonathan Pfeiffer came to help out on Sunday and my non-techie husband handed me food as I was talking to people about the XO, Sugar, the CP, volunteering and the like. Sorry for the rant folks, those of you who know me know this is very rare. Caryl ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
Caryl Bigenho writes: > One man sat in front of the XO for several minutes with a puzzled > look on his face. Finally he asked, "Where is your file manager?" > I explained that he needed to forget everything he knew about > computers and just pretend he was a child again. He got up in > disgust and left. He asked a simple question and you blew him off. Adults use communication to avoid wasting time. Had you tried to explain, you might have gotten better feedback. Of course, then you need to avoid being dismissive of the feedback. > Meanwhile, nearby, a little boy, about 8-years-old was happily > exploring Sugar. I'm sure he was, but "exploring" is not the same thing as being productive. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: > Hi IAEP, > ... > Next weekend (not this) I will be doing a presentation about OLPC and Sugar > for the CUE (Computer Using Educators) conference in Palm Springs, CA. I > will also have a station set up in the lobby where folks can come and try > the XOs. These will all be educators (SCaLE was mostly programmers). > > Is there any special message you would like me to pass on from IAEP and > SugarLabs? > > Caryl > This thread has some good ideas for an educators meeting. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-February/msg00118.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Adults and Sugar
Hi IAEP, I get this list via digest so I'm late to this topic. However, I did want to share my experience at the OLPC booth at SCaLE this past weekend. Caroline Meeks wrote: "Put Sugar in front of the average adult sitting alone, without any instruction, for 20 minutes. I doubt many of them would agree with you. "Thats not how Sugar was designed to be used, but it is the conditions under which it is usually evaluated. I think this is one of our marketing challenges." This was the reaction we got. One man sat in front of the XO for several minutes with a puzzled look on his face. Finally he asked, "Where is your file manager?" I explained that he needed to forget everything he knew about computers and just pretend he was a child again. He got up in disgust and left. Meanwhile, nearby, a little boy, about 8-years-old was happily exploring Sugar. Most adults were happy to try, often assisted by children, while we were busy talking to other adults about becoming "Contributors" of their skills and talents to the OLPC and Sugar projects. Overall, we had a very positive response. Some adults have very closed minds, but I think most are willing to learn, change, and have fun doing it. Next weekend (not this) I will be doing a presentation about OLPC and Sugar for the CUE (Computer Using Educators) conference in Palm Springs, CA. I will also have a station set up in the lobby where folks can come and try the XOs. These will all be educators (SCaLE was mostly programmers). Is there any special message you would like me to pass on from IAEP and SugarLabs? Caryl ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
