Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 12:40:33PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 15:51, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:39:52PM -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote: Yes! In theory there are thousands of free books. We need people to be able to experience that there are books available for Sugar when they try Sugar. I like the idea of hooking the readers to a library. I don't know how much work that is or who is available to do it now. Does anyone know where we are in terms of books on the activities portal? I've just initiated Library activity. The major ideas were: Seems like this activity has a lot of functionality. well, in my mind it should be unified method to create, reuse and share all Objects in Sugar Do you have already a mockup of how the UI would look like? Something as basic as this would be enough: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Library http://expressionflow.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/paper-mock-up.png Thanks, Tomeu * to have central mechanism to access to shared(by other users or activities portal) objects(not only activities) shared means not shared in running activities but in terms of sharing books from your bookshelf * fix LTPS issue - then we need all activities that should be preinstalled on client machines packaged into rpm/deb/etc. with new mechanism we could preinstall/upgrade bunch of activities(Journal Objects) w/o need of packaging them * implementation in activity(not in Shell/Journal) because we already have 0.82 and 0.84 platforms w/o this feature, new mechanism intended to support all platforms beginning from 0.82 * support offline mode when user who has internet connection could download all objects from Activities Portal and share them for others users * objectless sharing when only metadata will be shared * patch activities.sugarlabs.org to support this mechanism Activities Portal will be just another sugar user with Library activity So, with new mechanism implemented you could put your book to Journal, register(or so) it in Library activity and share it for other users (including Activities Portal) -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
The Devil's Advocate strikes again. Thanks, Albert. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Albert Cahalan acaha...@gmail.com wrote: Edward Cherlin writes: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongrove at gmail.com wrote: There are supposed to be a Bible and a Qur'an for the XO. I know where the texts are for a dozen other religions, if anybody is interested in providing them. Sugar is not restricted to mature audiences you know. It's for kids. Kids are made to read parts of these books in many countries. I want to supply the complete texts, with alternative translations, and alternatives. I would get Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, if he would give us a CC license. Anyway, it doesn't matter much. This stuff is all readily available on the Net. Both of those books are loaded with sex and violence. I really can't think of any books that are more violent, and I can only think of one book that has worse sexual perversion. Both of them even glorify genocide, war, and torture. Both have in fact been used to justify and encourage genocide, war, and torture. There you go. Part of your basic civics education. Larry Lessig told me he wants to join in writing that book. Students will need more than the bare texts. At least a dictionary of Elizabethan English, and preferably some of the books that Shakespeare himself read, such as Aristotle's Poetics, Plutarch's Lives, and Holinshed's Chronicles. Sugar for adults studying Libral Arts at an Ivy League school? I'm sorry. Are we talking about giving little children Shakespeare? They can handle dynastic struggles, war, and revenge, but they can't handle history or drama theory? If you want harder reading material, try consumer contracts. :-( Those at least have extreme importance to people's lives. +1 But in fact, UN bafflegab is currently more of an issue, and sometimes more impenetrable. I have commented on this before. http://lists.rite.ed.qut.edu.au/pipermail/oz-teachers/2008-March/014205.html According to UNICEF, there is need to involve female teachers in training and capacity building to develop patterns of support and understanding of the challenges that girl children face both within and outside the school setting. Women teachers are considered particularly valuable and with proper training and motivation, can serve as positive mentors from within the community (UNICEF, 2006). Typical UN bafflegab. The substance of this statement in actual English is that there are some important things (to do with unidentified challenges) that girls learn better from women than from men, so we should help women to teach. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
well, you're right, i will agree that expression in this medium is unlikely to resolve the differences...since i see that many who have subscribed to some of said books that you find so objectionable, have also done much for education, scientific and otherwise, but i think we are are bound to choose counter examples, due to our ideological filters, so i suggest we desist, at least in this forum i suspected the take no prisoners style of your argument as trolling for reaction ...and perhaps i have bitten ...but will no more From: Albert Cahalan [mailto:acaha...@gmail.com] Sent: Thu 4/30/2009 3:56 PM To: Costello, Rob R; iaep Subject: Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books Costello, Rob R writes: So refreshing to have Albert trolling again - waiting for us to rise to the bait If you really believe I'm trolling, why did you give me a win? Unfortunately for me, I had other reasons to post that email. I'm annoyed at the double standards here. If it looks like I'm trolling, then that's just an indication of how far apart we are in our beliefs. (and possibly style differences w.r.t. making clear arguments in a limited medium) This form someone who proposed a doom version for the XO at one point I was in fact thinking about DOOM when I sent that email. The double standards really offend me; I don't actually mind the depicted violence in either DOOM or the books. (inspired real violence is another matter entirely) I'll assume that you believe that DOOM is inappropriate. Any **fair** assesment would say the books are far worse. For example, suppose I wrote my own book with similar content. You'd be horrified by my tale of murder, war, sexism, torture, genocide, sexual mutilation, slavery, revenge, rape, gambling, prostitution, and so on. If such books are OK though, then obviously the mere killing of non-humans is fine. Compare... Death depicted in DOOM: hundreds of non-humans die Death depicted in book: most of humanity purposely drowned, etc. Real death caused by DOOM: probably none Real death caused by book: millions and millions (ongoing) Plus, in case it's an education project: Anti-science message in DOOM: flawed physics model Anti-science message in book: where do I even begin... Constructing content for DOOM: encouraged Constructing content for book: often punished, sometimes with death I wish I could suggest alternate books, but sadly all the good ones are still protected by copyright. (The Ancestor's Tale for example) The things that bug me most: double standards, ongoing REAL death, and the anti-science (anti-education) message. Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:39:52PM -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote: Yes! In theory there are thousands of free books. We need people to be able to experience that there are books available for Sugar when they try Sugar. I like the idea of hooking the readers to a library. I don't know how much work that is or who is available to do it now. Does anyone know where we are in terms of books on the activities portal? I've just initiated Library activity. The major ideas were: * to have central mechanism to access to shared(by other users or activities portal) objects(not only activities) shared means not shared in running activities but in terms of sharing books from your bookshelf * fix LTPS issue - then we need all activities that should be preinstalled on client machines packaged into rpm/deb/etc. with new mechanism we could preinstall/upgrade bunch of activities(Journal Objects) w/o need of packaging them * implementation in activity(not in Shell/Journal) because we already have 0.82 and 0.84 platforms w/o this feature, new mechanism intended to support all platforms beginning from 0.82 * support offline mode when user who has internet connection could download all objects from Activities Portal and share them for others users * objectless sharing when only metadata will be shared * patch activities.sugarlabs.org to support this mechanism Activities Portal will be just another sugar user with Library activity So, with new mechanism implemented you could put your book to Journal, register(or so) it in Library activity and share it for other users (including Activities Portal) -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
Sounds great! Do you have an expected timeline? On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:39:52PM -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote: Yes! In theory there are thousands of free books. We need people to be able to experience that there are books available for Sugar when they try Sugar. I like the idea of hooking the readers to a library. I don't know how much work that is or who is available to do it now. Does anyone know where we are in terms of books on the activities portal? I've just initiated Library activity. The major ideas were: * to have central mechanism to access to shared(by other users or activities portal) objects(not only activities) shared means not shared in running activities but in terms of sharing books from your bookshelf * fix LTPS issue - then we need all activities that should be preinstalled on client machines packaged into rpm/deb/etc. with new mechanism we could preinstall/upgrade bunch of activities(Journal Objects) w/o need of packaging them * implementation in activity(not in Shell/Journal) because we already have 0.82 and 0.84 platforms w/o this feature, new mechanism intended to support all platforms beginning from 0.82 * support offline mode when user who has internet connection could download all objects from Activities Portal and share them for others users * objectless sharing when only metadata will be shared * patch activities.sugarlabs.org to support this mechanism Activities Portal will be just another sugar user with Library activity So, with new mechanism implemented you could put your book to Journal, register(or so) it in Library activity and share it for other users (including Activities Portal) -- Aleksey -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
Edward Cherlin wrote: In actuality, actually. Not just Project Gutenberg, but Wikibooks, Creative Commons, and others. See, in particular, http://www.librarianchick.com for textbooks on any and every subject. I just checked out that site. It has a nifty search that seems to index every source of books *except* Internet Archive and Gutenberg. Make links to this site and the other two on the Browse start page (or something linked to it) and you'll have pointers to more content than you could read in several lifetimes. ... Students will need more than the bare texts. At least a dictionary of Elizabethan English, and preferably some of the books that Shakespeare himself read, such as Aristotle's Poetics, Plutarch's Lives, and Holinshed's Chronicles. In high school I had a teacher who did a reasonable job teaching _Julius Caesar_ and _Romeo and Juliet_ without referring to any other texts. She didn't do nearly as well teaching _The Martian Chronicles_. Maybe we should have studied the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Henry Kuttner, and Stanley G. Weinbaum at the same time. James Simmons ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
Edward Cherlin writes: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongrove at gmail.com wrote: There are supposed to be a Bible and a Qur'an for the XO. I know where the texts are for a dozen other religions, if anybody is interested in providing them. Sugar is not restricted to mature audiences you know. It's for kids. Both of those books are loaded with sex and violence. I really can't think of any books that are more violent, and I can only think of one book that has worse sexual perversion. Both of them even glorify genocide, war, and torture. Both have in fact been used to justify and encourage genocide, war, and torture. Students will need more than the bare texts. At least a dictionary of Elizabethan English, and preferably some of the books that Shakespeare himself read, such as Aristotle's Poetics, Plutarch's Lives, and Holinshed's Chronicles. Sugar for adults studying Libral Arts at an Ivy League school? If you want harder reading material, try consumer contracts. :-( Those at least have extreme importance to people's lives. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
So refreshing to have Albert trolling again - waiting for us to rise to the bait This form someone who proposed a doom version for the XO at one point -Original Message- From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep- boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Albert Cahalan Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 4:54 AM To: Edward Cherlin; iaep Subject: Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books Edward Cherlin writes: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongrove at gmail.com wrote: There are supposed to be a Bible and a Qur'an for the XO. I know where the texts are for a dozen other religions, if anybody is interested in providing them. Sugar is not restricted to mature audiences you know. It's for kids. Both of those books are loaded with sex and violence. I really can't think of any books that are more violent, and I can only think of one book that has worse sexual perversion. Both of them even glorify genocide, war, and torture. Both have in fact been used to justify and encourage genocide, war, and torture. Students will need more than the bare texts. At least a dictionary of Elizabethan English, and preferably some of the books that Shakespeare himself read, such as Aristotle's Poetics, Plutarch's Lives, and Holinshed's Chronicles. Sugar for adults studying Libral Arts at an Ivy League school? If you want harder reading material, try consumer contracts. :-( Those at least have extreme importance to people's lives. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
Costello, Rob R writes: So refreshing to have Albert trolling again - waiting for us to rise to the bait If you really believe I'm trolling, why did you give me a win? Unfortunately for me, I had other reasons to post that email. I'm annoyed at the double standards here. If it looks like I'm trolling, then that's just an indication of how far apart we are in our beliefs. (and possibly style differences w.r.t. making clear arguments in a limited medium) This form someone who proposed a doom version for the XO at one point I was in fact thinking about DOOM when I sent that email. The double standards really offend me; I don't actually mind the depicted violence in either DOOM or the books. (inspired real violence is another matter entirely) I'll assume that you believe that DOOM is inappropriate. Any **fair** assesment would say the books are far worse. For example, suppose I wrote my own book with similar content. You'd be horrified by my tale of murder, war, sexism, torture, genocide, sexual mutilation, slavery, revenge, rape, gambling, prostitution, and so on. If such books are OK though, then obviously the mere killing of non-humans is fine. Compare... Death depicted in DOOM: hundreds of non-humans die Death depicted in book: most of humanity purposely drowned, etc. Real death caused by DOOM: probably none Real death caused by book: millions and millions (ongoing) Plus, in case it's an education project: Anti-science message in DOOM: flawed physics model Anti-science message in book: where do I even begin... Constructing content for DOOM: encouraged Constructing content for book: often punished, sometimes with death I wish I could suggest alternate books, but sadly all the good ones are still protected by copyright. (The Ancestor's Tale for example) The things that bug me most: double standards, ongoing REAL death, and the anti-science (anti-education) message. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Books Books Books
Yes! In theory there are thousands of free books. We need people to be able to experience that there are books available for Sugar when they try Sugar. I like the idea of hooking the readers to a library. I don't know how much work that is or who is available to do it now. Does anyone know where we are in terms of books on the activities portal? On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.comwrote: James, Thanks for your reply... On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:07:15PM -0500, James Simmons wrote: [I]f you want to download books from Gutenberg to the XO check out Read Etexts and see what you think. Thanks - will do. And please know I'm just muttering from the peanut gallery - I'll put my code where my mouth is sometime, hopefully, but I can't now, sorry. So please feel free to ignore me. The scenario I was imagining was: Teacher: Can I get my class to read Shakespeare in Sugar? Imaginary SL person: Sure, just click on Read ETexts and then the Find Books tag. Type Shakespeare, and go from there [at which point project gutenberg, journal items with a special tag, and other sources are queried filtered by Shakespeare to show what books are available for reading]. James Simmons Martin ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Books Books Books
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes! In theory The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference, but in practice there is. there are thousands of free books. In actuality, actually. Not just Project Gutenberg, but Wikibooks, Creative Commons, and others. See, in particular, http://www.librarianchick.com for textbooks on any and every subject. We need people to be able to experience that there are books available for Sugar when they try Sugar. I like the idea of hooking the readers to a library. I don't know how much work that is or who is available to do it now. Does anyone know where we are in terms of books on the activities portal? We can easily put together a set of bookmarks. What form should books be in for the School Server? There are supposed to be a Bible and a Qur'an for the XO. I know where the texts are for a dozen other religions, if anybody is interested in providing them. On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: James, Thanks for your reply... On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:07:15PM -0500, James Simmons wrote: [I]f you want to download books from Gutenberg to the XO check out Read Etexts and see what you think. Thanks - will do. And please know I'm just muttering from the peanut gallery - I'll put my code where my mouth is sometime, hopefully, but I can't now, sorry. So please feel free to ignore me. The scenario I was imagining was: Teacher: Can I get my class to read Shakespeare in Sugar? Imaginary SL person: Sure, just click on Read ETexts and then the Find Books tag. Type Shakespeare, and go from there [at which point project gutenberg, journal items with a special tag, and other sources are queried filtered by Shakespeare to show what books are available for reading]. Students will need more than the bare texts. At least a dictionary of Elizabethan English, and preferably some of the books that Shakespeare himself read, such as Aristotle's Poetics, Plutarch's Lives, and Holinshed's Chronicles. James Simmons Martin ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
