Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

2016-04-26 14:35 GMT-04:00 José Miguel García :

> En diversas instancias internacionales que he tenido, los asistentes no
> sabían de que trataba Sugar, y es difícil darlo a conocer si no tienen la
> posibilidad sencilla de probarlo.


Si... :) Gracias!!
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

2016-04-25 13:04 GMT-04:00 José Miguel García :

>  Depende del sistema operativo que tenga, pues varios prefieren windows...
>

Do you think they would use Sugar on Windows, if it was packaged into a
'one click' virtual machine?

I also wonder about ways to make Sugar desktop available in a web
browser Perhaps like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr8eo4RlPw4 and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2DH8bpCf1s  :)


> Yo tampoco se inglés, por lo que el traductor es importante para mi!
>

:)

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

THANK YOU!! This is great :D

On 25 April 2016 at 08:41, José Miguel García 
wrote:

> No todas las laptops de los docentes tienen Sugar, por lo que lo utilizan
> muy poco.
>

What is required for teachers to install Sugar on their laptops?

Lo sentimos, no sé español. Traductor Google es mi amigo.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Sebastian Silva]

El 24/04/16 a las 08:12, Dave Crossland escribió:
> Is anyone in touch with people in Peru
Sugar Network data should more or less represent Peru.

It strongly suggests usage is primarily in School, during schooltime/.

/This is for XO laptops /with Internet/ and /updated with Hexoquinasa
(distributed by the Peruvian Ministry of Education since 2012)./
//
http://jita.sugarlabs.org/node.sugarlabs.org/

Any other insights are welcome.

Thanks,
Sebastian
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Adam Holt]

+support-gang (where the Unleash Kids community support volunteer
collaborative originated, for many similar reasons as outlined below --
community support was never taken terribly seriously within uppercase OLPC
-- to make an obscenely long, painful and sometimes unprintable story very
succinct ;-)

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Adam Holt  wrote:

> On Apr 24, 2016 1:18 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
>>> school/classroom setting"?
>>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The two largest OLPC deployments, Peru and Uruguay account for 50% of XO
>> laptops.
>>
>> Peru, 60% of use was in school [1]
>> Uruguay home use > school use [2]
>>
>> Uruguay was 100% take home, Peru had a mixed take home policy.
>>
>> It is not clear what happened in the remaining 50% of deployments.
>>
>> These statistics are 4-6 years old. It is not clear how the usage changes
>> as XO's have got older. They are presumably perceived to be less valuable.
>> This could relax take home policies, it probably tends to lower school and
>> home use.
>>
>> So I disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
>> school/classroom setting". I think its too close to call. Home and school
>> use are roughly equal.
>>
>
> Huge thanks Tony Forster highlighting those 2 critical data points,
> surrounding initial Peru/Uruguay uses in the years after XO acquisition.
>
> There are more than a few flies in the "One Laptop Per Child" ointment
> both those well-known, and more we're learning from every day.  I know of
> more than a few schools (which do not want to be named, in the name of
> self-preservation) where, to oversimplify the numbers: 100 XO laptops
> arrived, of which 90 were used for 100 hours each, and the remaining 10
> laptops were used for 1000 hours each -- roughly speaking a common outline
> is:
>
>- 9,000 hours of XO/Sugar use, by 100s of students broadly, back in
>the day
>- 10,000 hours of XO/Sugar use, by a few elite IT/Sugar/community
>gurus, ongoing today, the best of which are giving back to their
>communities in powerful ways
>
> These are arbitrary numbers to illustrate the larger common pattern, and
> not to embarrass specific schools which do not want to be named.  The lack
> of structured project ideas / professional development of teachers /
> culturally relevant content/pedagogy needs to be addressed at some other
> time, among other fundamental reasons that many XO/Sugar dreams gathered
> dust.
>
> But back to the original question, if (as Tony Forster and I suspect)
> most-if-not-much-all Sugar use is happening outside of class time in 2016
> -- starting many years back now: how can we now get a better grip on these
> very real, evolving, important extracurricular -> personal patterns?
> Moving beyond glory days anecdotalism?  Where do we have a moral
> responsibility to move beyond our Negroponte founders' days "don't measure
> it, just do it" idealism?  Where have we unintentionally expanded
> male/female rich/poor digital divides, as several OLPC communities
> privately ask me to keep quiet about?  When Silicon Valley companies now
> publish gender/race stats routinely, to expose accidental/unconscious
> injustices, how do we too learn to look in our own mirror?
>
> Half a decade later, we can collect as many anecdotes as we want, let's
> jeep at it keeping our blogs fired up before the clock runs out.  But
> before the clock runs out, we require professional sociologists too, if we
> are halfway serious about our Environmental Impact at all, and moving
> beyond statistics that can easily made to lie for any fundraiser.  Many
> people ask me very pointedly -- are we across the OLPC/Sugar legacy a
> listening organization, or is there a core tone-deaf MIT dream unwilling to
> self-assess, needing a firm kick in the rear-end like even George Bush gave
> to Donald Rumsfeld, to finally force an existential assessment of our
> purpose?  The bare minimum groundtruthing being serious amateurs like
> Christoph Derndorfer, Tony Anderson and Morgan Ames etc who chose to put
> their life in the village, stepping outside of the Jeep, to spend Many
> Weeks Each in a broad diversity of communities -- Rwanda, Uruguay, Peru for
> sure -- and many others too thankfully.
>
> Who today will follow in their footsteps spending weeks and months in
> community, in listening mode, challenging their own assumptions, bridging
> the various self-serving post/neo-colonial narratives?  How do we help our
> new generation find heartfelt diaspora families, willing to struggle for
> progressive truths/opportunities beyond the happy-happy-joy-joy
> founding/fundraising narratives?  How do we help the embedded visitor speak
> the local/indigenous language enough to get inside heads and then beyond
> the founding days' multi-stakeholder mythologies, as new generations of
> kids/siblings have come AND gone?  What humility does the embedded 

Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Adam Holt]

On Apr 24, 2016 1:18 AM,  wrote:

> Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
>> school/classroom setting"?
>>
>
> Hi
>
> The two largest OLPC deployments, Peru and Uruguay account for 50% of XO
> laptops.
>
> Peru, 60% of use was in school [1]
> Uruguay home use > school use [2]
>
> Uruguay was 100% take home, Peru had a mixed take home policy.
>
> It is not clear what happened in the remaining 50% of deployments.
>
> These statistics are 4-6 years old. It is not clear how the usage changes
> as XO's have got older. They are presumably perceived to be less valuable.
> This could relax take home policies, it probably tends to lower school and
> home use.
>
> So I disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
> school/classroom setting". I think its too close to call. Home and school
> use are roughly equal.
>

Huge thanks Tony Forster highlighting those 2 critical data points,
surrounding initial Peru/Uruguay uses in the years after XO acquisition.

There are more than a few flies in the "One Laptop Per Child" ointment both
those well-known, and more we're learning from every day.  I know of more
than a few schools (which do not want to be named, in the name of
self-preservation) where, to oversimplify the numbers: 100 XO laptops
arrived, of which 90 were used for 100 hours each, and the remaining 10
laptops were used for 1000 hours each -- roughly speaking a common outline
is:

   - 9,000 hours of XO/Sugar use, by 100s of students broadly, back in the
   day
   - 10,000 hours of XO/Sugar use, by a few elite IT/Sugar/community gurus,
   ongoing today, the best of which are giving back to their communities in
   powerful ways

These are arbitrary numbers to illustrate the larger common pattern, and
not to embarrass specific schools which do not want to be named.  The lack
of structured project ideas / professional development of teachers /
culturally relevant content/pedagogy needs to be addressed at some other
time, among other fundamental reasons that many XO/Sugar dreams gathered
dust.

But back to the original question, if (as Tony Forster and I suspect)
most-if-not-much-all Sugar use is happening outside of class time in 2016
-- starting many years back now: how can we now get a better grip on these
very real, evolving, important extracurricular -> personal patterns?
Moving beyond glory days anecdotalism?  Where do we have a moral
responsibility to move beyond our Negroponte founders' days "don't measure
it, just do it" idealism?  Where have we unintentionally expanded
male/female rich/poor digital divides, as several OLPC communities
privately ask me to keep quiet about?  When Silicon Valley companies now
publish gender/race stats routinely, to expose accidental/unconscious
injustices, how do we too learn to look in our own mirror?

Half a decade later, we can collect as many anecdotes as we want, let's
jeep at it keeping our blogs fired up before the clock runs out.  But
before the clock runs out, we require professional sociologists too, if we
are halfway serious about our Environmental Impact at all, and moving
beyond statistics that can easily made to lie for any fundraiser.  Many
people ask me very pointedly -- are we across the OLPC/Sugar legacy a
listening organization, or is there a core tone-deaf MIT dream unwilling to
self-assess, needing a firm kick in the rear-end like even George Bush gave
to Donald Rumsfeld, to finally force an existential assessment of our
purpose?  The bare minimum groundtruthing being serious amateurs like
Christoph Derndorfer, Tony Anderson and Morgan Ames etc who chose to put
their life in the village, stepping outside of the Jeep, to spend Many
Weeks Each in a broad diversity of communities -- Rwanda, Uruguay, Peru for
sure -- and many others too thankfully.

Who today will follow in their footsteps spending weeks and months in
community, in listening mode, challenging their own assumptions, bridging
the various self-serving post/neo-colonial narratives?  How do we help our
new generation find heartfelt diaspora families, willing to struggle for
progressive truths/opportunities beyond the happy-happy-joy-joy
founding/fundraising narratives?  How do we help the embedded visitor speak
the local/indigenous language enough to get inside heads and then beyond
the founding days' multi-stakeholder mythologies, as new generations of
kids/siblings have come AND gone?  What humility does the embedded visitor
need to bring to scratch below the surface building confidences among
several Confederates in the grassroots community, exposing Actual
(post)Implementation Challenges -- even if Not All Are Printable?  What
Wayan Vota's (detached from the founders) will fund the Christoph
Derndorfers of our time over the coming decade, getting to the core
spiritual truths of what we have and have not accomplished?  How do we
cultivate dry-by voluntourist visitors ethics to develop loyalty with the
community's 

Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi José!

I hope you could join this discussion thread :) I'm curious about your
perspective from Uruguay on the following questions :)

Are most Sugar users are using XO laptops?

Is most Sugar use is in a school/classroom setting, or by the child in
their free time at home?

Also, I read in https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Jmgarcia that you wrote

> For Sugar you should not be limited to a computer model

I'm curious if you know of any user communities that are using Sugar on
non-XO computers, and if so, what models they were/are using? :)

Cheers
Dave

On 24 April 2016 at 04:18,  wrote:

> Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
>> school/classroom setting"?
>>
>
> Hi
>
> The two largest OLPC deployments, Peru and Uruguay account for 50% of XO
> laptops.
>
> Peru, 60% of use was in school [1]
> Uruguay home use > school use [2]
>
> Uruguay was 100% take home, Peru had a mixed take home policy.
>
> It is not clear what happened in the remaining 50% of deployments.
>
> These statistics are 4-6 years old. It is not clear how the usage changes
> as XO's have got older. They are presumably perceived to be less valuable.
> This could relax take home policies, it probably tends to lower school and
> home use.
>
> So I disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
> school/classroom setting". I think its too close to call. Home and school
> use are roughly equal.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> [1]Frequency: sessions in last week By place % at school
> Table 9 Technology and Child Development: Evidence from the One Laptop
> per Child Program , IADB Feb 2012
>
> [2]"Children reportedly use the XO's about an 1 to 1.5 hours per day at
> home...The XO's are not used as much in schools"
> http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/uruguay/plan_ceibal_a_better_designed.htm
> May 2010
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Caryl Bigenho]

Ask SLOB board member José Miguel García. He is Uruguayian,

Caryl

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tony
> 
> This is great!
> 
>> On 24 April 2016 at 04:18,  wrote:
>> It is not clear how the usage changes as XO's have got older
> 
> Is anyone in touch with people in Peru and Uruguay who would know what XO 
> usage is like today? :) 
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Tony

This is great!

On 24 April 2016 at 04:18,  wrote:

> It is not clear how the usage changes as XO's have got older


Is anyone in touch with people in Peru and Uruguay who would know what XO
usage is like today? :)

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[forster]

Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
school/classroom setting"?


Hi

The two largest OLPC deployments, Peru and Uruguay account for 50% of  
XO laptops.


Peru, 60% of use was in school [1]
Uruguay home use > school use [2]

Uruguay was 100% take home, Peru had a mixed take home policy.

It is not clear what happened in the remaining 50% of deployments.

These statistics are 4-6 years old. It is not clear how the usage  
changes as XO's have got older. They are presumably perceived to be  
less valuable. This could relax take home policies, it probably tends  
to lower school and home use.


So I disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a  
school/classroom setting". I think its too close to call. Home and  
school use are roughly equal.


Tony



[1]Frequency: sessions in last week By place % at school
Table 9 Technology and Child Development: Evidence from the One Laptop
per Child Program , IADB Feb 2012

[2]"Children reportedly use the XO's about an 1 to 1.5 hours per day  
at home...The XO's are not used as much in schools"
http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/uruguay/plan_ceibal_a_better_designed.htm  
May 2010





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Re: [IAEP] IAEP "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Tony Anderson]

They are using Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. As 32-bit systems, Ubuntu Sugar is not 
available. There are possible ways around this, but I just have not had 
time to pursue them. Since it is a high school, the demand of the older 
students is more directed to Wikipedia, Open Street Maps, Khan Academy, 
PhET simulations and the like from the school server.


Tony

On 04/24/2016 12:38 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


On 24 April 2016 at 00:00, Tony Anderson > wrote:


I have access to 3 deployments in Rwanda (120 laptops at one
school, probably 200+ at two others). I also have
access to 3 deployments in the Philippines (1 primary school with
15 XO-1.5, 1 primary school with 12 Dell core 2 duo machines using
Ubuntu Sugar, and 1 high school using 100+ Dell laptops without
Sugar but with a school server (xsce6 with content from BERNIE)).
All of these schools have a school server. I have some second hand
information about deployments in Lesotho, South Africa (Kliptown
Youth), and Tanzania (this information is stale).


Alright, that's a good start! :) I put it into the wiki here:

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Local_Labs/Contacts

For the school with 100+ Dells without Sugar, why aren't they using 
Sugar, and what are they using instead?


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Re: [IAEP] IAEP "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

On 24 April 2016 at 00:00, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> I have access to 3 deployments in Rwanda (120 laptops at one school,
> probably 200+ at two others). I also have
> access to 3 deployments in the Philippines (1 primary school with 15
> XO-1.5, 1 primary school with 12 Dell core 2 duo machines using Ubuntu
> Sugar, and 1 high school using 100+ Dell laptops without Sugar but with a
> school server (xsce6 with content from BERNIE)). All of these schools have
> a school server. I have some second hand information about deployments in
> Lesotho, South Africa (Kliptown Youth), and Tanzania (this information is
> stale).
>

Alright, that's a good start! :) I put it into the wiki here:

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Local_Labs/Contacts

For the school with 100+ Dells without Sugar, why aren't they using Sugar,
and what are they using instead?
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 24 April 2016 at 00:04, Chris Leonard  wrote:

> OLPC does share a table of the SKUs manufactured that contains some
> information about where they are going.
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data
>
> Far from perfect for your purpose, but is is a start.
>

AWESOME :D


> Are you talking about a driver on the XO-4 or something
>

Yes, I'm referring to software required to make the hardware work.
Distinguishing between firmware, drivers, operating systems, libraries,
programs, and scripts doesn't seem important to me when considering the
question of if a program is libre licensed or not.


> IANAL, so I'm not touching "Sugar isn't actually GPL", but if there are
> serious concerns about our licensing, please document them so others can
> look into it.
>

No concern at all! Just a statement of fact - as I understand it. Which is
that Sugar is LGPL, and OLPC made Sugar LGPL to allow proprietary Sugar
Activities. Is this incorrect?

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Samuel Greenfeld]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:14 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Free and Open Source: It seems that the XO-4 contains more proprietary
> software than the XO-1; and since Sugar isn't actually GPL, it seems Sugar
> Labs only has a preference for this.
>

The core Sugar programs are licensed GPLv2 or later, while the core Sugar
"toolkit" libraries are licensed LGPLv2 or later.  There was discussion
about moving everything to GPLv3 on this mailing list in April 2011.  But
as far as I know the license was not changed.

The XO-1.75 & XO-4 used accelerated video drivers which may be proprietary
and were not upstreamed.  But alternative drivers for these chipsets now
exist which potentially could be modified to work on XOs.  These did not
exist at the time said XOs were first released.


On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Chris Leonard 
wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:14 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> > Well, does Sugar Labs have a table listing each user community
> > ("deployment") and a person in each community who Sugar Labs can talk
> with?
> >
> > If not, let's make such a table :)
> >
> > It isn't clear to me where these 3 million XOs went... I heard that OLPC
> > didn't and won't make an easy to access list of all deployments available
> > because they are scared about other companies taking away their
> customers.
> > There seems to be enough published information to piece something like
> that
> > together, though.
>
> OLPC does share a table of the SKUs manufactured that contains some
> information about where they are going.
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data
>
> Far from perfect for your purpose, but is is a start.
>
> >
> > Free and Open Source: It seems that the XO-4 contains more proprietary
> > software than the XO-1; and since Sugar isn't actually GPL, it seems
> Sugar
> > Labs only has a preference for this.
> >>
>
> Are you talking about a driver on the XO-4 or something, details would
> be useful in assessing this statement.  IANAL, so I'm not touching
> "Sugar isn't actually GPL", but if there are serious concerns about
> our licensing, please document them so others can look into it.
>
> cjl
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>
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Chris Leonard]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:14 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Well, does Sugar Labs have a table listing each user community
> ("deployment") and a person in each community who Sugar Labs can talk with?
>
> If not, let's make such a table :)
>
> It isn't clear to me where these 3 million XOs went... I heard that OLPC
> didn't and won't make an easy to access list of all deployments available
> because they are scared about other companies taking away their customers.
> There seems to be enough published information to piece something like that
> together, though.

OLPC does share a table of the SKUs manufactured that contains some
information about where they are going.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data

Far from perfect for your purpose, but is is a start.

>
> Free and Open Source: It seems that the XO-4 contains more proprietary
> software than the XO-1; and since Sugar isn't actually GPL, it seems Sugar
> Labs only has a preference for this.
>>

Are you talking about a driver on the XO-4 or something, details would
be useful in assessing this statement.  IANAL, so I'm not touching
"Sugar isn't actually GPL", but if there are serious concerns about
our licensing, please document them so others can look into it.

cjl
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Re: [IAEP] IAEP "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Tony Anderson]

Dave,

This is exactly what we need. It will take a lot of work but the value 
would make it very worthwhile.


I believe Adam Holt and the support-gang have the most information.

I have access to 3 deployments in Rwanda (120 laptops at one school, 
probably 200+ at two others). I also have
access to 3 deployments in the Philippines (1 primary school with 15 
XO-1.5, 1 primary school with 12 Dell core 2 duo machines using Ubuntu 
Sugar, and 1 high school using 100+ Dell laptops without Sugar but with 
a school server (xsce6 with content from BERNIE)). All of these schools 
have a school server. I have some second hand information about 
deployments in Lesotho, South Africa (Kliptown Youth), and Tanzania 
(this information is stale).


Tony



On 04/24/2016 11:15 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Well, does Sugar Labs have a table listing each user community
("deployment") and a person in each community who Sugar Labs can talk with?

If not, let's make such a table:)


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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

On 23 April 2016 at 22:18, Adam Holt  wrote:

> Conversely it's possible much/most Sugar use is now happening outside of
> classes (and outside of classrooms too!)
>
Sure, its possible. Do you think its probable?

> in homes/libraries/cybercafes/etc at last?
>
Homes suggests "Child Ownership," and like schools, racking up many hours
of usage; while libraries and cybercafes suggest to me racking up a few
hours of gaming.

> At this late stage in OLPC's history, and not just in Uruguay? Is Uruguay
> actively using Sugar in 2016 and if so how?  Who can tell
> urban/rural/young/old perspectives across Uruguay/Rwanda/etc in 2016?
>
Well, does Sugar Labs have a table listing each user community
("deployment") and a person in each community who Sugar Labs can talk with?

If not, let's make such a table :)

It isn't clear to me where these 3 million XOs went... I heard that OLPC
didn't and won't make an easy to access list of all deployments available
because they are scared about other companies taking away their customers.
There seems to be enough published information to piece something like that
together, though.

>
Certainly I keep running into more and more XO laptops that have moved far
> beyond their originally-stated scholastic purposes...is it time for
> "Child/Tween/Millenial Ownership" action at long at last?!
>
> http ://
> wiki.laptop.org
> /go/OLPC:Five_principles
> 
>
Please could you clarify what you mean by "action" there?

I understand those 5 principles were written some 10-12 years ago. I am not
sure how much they are related to Sugar in 2016, or to the actual actions
of OLPC itself over that period; it seems they quickly became OLCP's
preferences.

Child Ownership: It seems that most XO laptops were bought by schools and
did not become 'owned' by the children using them, with some exceptions.
Since Sugar Labs doesn't sell laptops, this is no longer relevant; and
while I think SL should sell pre-installed laptops, I can't see how this
could be a principle going forwards in recognition of
schools/libraries/cybercafes/etc.

Low Ages: It seems that XOs did become used by children aged 6 to 12. The
keyboards are too small for anyone older ;) And Sugar's UX does seem to
work for kids in this age range.

Saturation: That wiki page offers levels of "a country, a region, a
municipality or a village." Even with this caveat, I have no idea to what
extend this is common in active deployments today; seems we need the table
I describe above :) Since laptops/desktops are no longer the only form of
computer that kids use, and indeed, probably now the minority form, then
Sugar seems unlikely to have saturation even in a community where every kid
has an XO.

Connection: We have just been talking about how communities without
effective internet access may be helpful to focus on, reversing this
principle; although I think www.outernet.is provides a powerful solution to
this which wasn't available until recently.

Free and Open Source: It seems that the XO-4 contains more proprietary
software than the XO-1; and since Sugar isn't actually GPL, it seems Sugar
Labs only has a preference for this.

> Where are the true community anthropologists like Morgan Ames (and
> Margaret Mead) when we need them?!
>
Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves :D Making the table above is some
effort. Starting simply, who reading this email is actually in touch with
say a group of 10 or more kids with XOs?

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Adam Holt]

Conversely it's possible much/most Sugar use is now happening outside of
classes (and outside of classrooms too!) in homes/libraries/cybercafes/etc
at last?  At this late stage in OLPC's history, and not just in Uruguay?

Is Uruguay actively using Sugar in 2016 and if so how?  Who can tell
urban/rural/young/old perspectives across Uruguay/Rwanda/etc in 2016?

Certainly I keep running into more and more XO laptops that have moved far
beyond their originally-stated scholastic purposes...is it time for
"Child/Tween/Millenial Ownership" action at long at last?!

http <http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Five_principles>://
<http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Five_principles>wiki.laptop.org
<http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Five_principles>/go/OLPC:Five_principles
<http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Five_principles>

Where are the true community anthropologists like Morgan Ames (and Margaret
Mead) when we need them?!
Hi Dave,

At the risk of sounding like someone on snopes or politifact, that is
"mostly true."  However, even though it is in the classroom, it may not be
during regular class time. Sometimes it will be after school in a science
club or robotics club. Other times students might be working together on
some kind of media projects using the Sugar Software, etc. The
possibilities are almost limitedless.

In Uruguay, where there are many more XOs than any other country, the
students are allowed to take their machines home. They may be using them at
home to complete a special assignment or conduct some simple scientific
research. Sometimes they might also be sharing it with parents or
grandparents, teaching them how to use it.

But, yes, most are probably being used at the school, even if it may not be
during regular class time.

Caryl

--
From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 15:27:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?
To: sdaly...@gmail.com
CC: la...@somosazucar.org; cbige...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

Hi

Okay cool.

Laura, I agree about the importance of Spanish.

My next question:

Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
school/classroom setting"?

Cheers
Dave


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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

Okay cool.

Laura, I agree about the importance of Spanish.

My next question:

Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar use is in a
school/classroom setting"?

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Sean DALY]

Agree with the above statements
Sean


On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 1:04 AM, Laura Vargas  wrote:

>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Another statistical relevant statement to test in the community, is that
> 2/3 of Sugar users are Spanish speakers.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> 2016-04-23 6:56 GMT+08:00 Caryl Bigenho :
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I think that is still probably very true. But, it needs to change. And,
>> that is why I advocate greater support for Sugarizer so it can be used on
>> almost any screen anywhere in the world.
>>
>> Caryl
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone on the way to LinuxFestNW
>>
>> > On Apr 22, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar users are
>> using XO laptops"?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cheers
>> > Dave
>> > ___
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
>
>
> --
> Laura V.
> I SomosAZUCAR.Org
>
> Identi.ca/Skype acaire
> IRC kaametza
>
> Happy Learning!
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Laura Vargas]

Hi Dave,

Another statistical relevant statement to test in the community, is that
2/3 of Sugar users are Spanish speakers.

Cheers!


2016-04-23 6:56 GMT+08:00 Caryl Bigenho :

> Hi Dave,
>
> I think that is still probably very true. But, it needs to change. And,
> that is why I advocate greater support for Sugarizer so it can be used on
> almost any screen anywhere in the world.
>
> Caryl
>
> Sent from my iPhone on the way to LinuxFestNW
>
> > On Apr 22, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar users are using
> XO laptops"?
> >
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep




-- 
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!
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Re: [IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi Dave,

I think that is still probably very true. But, it needs to change. And, that is 
why I advocate greater support for Sugarizer so it can be used on almost any 
screen anywhere in the world.

Caryl

Sent from my iPhone on the way to LinuxFestNW

> On Apr 22, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar users are using XO 
> laptops"?
> 
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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[IAEP] Is "Most Sugar Users Use XO Laptops" True?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

Does anyone disagree with the assertion that "most Sugar users are using XO
laptops"?

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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