Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-12 Thread Rubén Rodríguez

> So, if an enthusiastic volunteer had demonstrated Sugar on a Stick to
> a school's "IT person" who has no previous sugar or linux experience -
> what would need to be on their learning curve, to set up such a
> system?

We plan to publish that server system as a live cd with everything set
up, so it shouldn't be much harder than installing a typical live cd.
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-12 Thread Thomas C Gilliard



On 01/12/2012 11:21 AM, Iain Brown Douglas wrote:

On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 03:21 +0100, Rubén Rodríguez wrote:


The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a thin
client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the server
makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
with class management software like iTALC.

This sounds useful.

(For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client )

So, if an enthusiastic volunteer had demonstrated Sugar on a Stick to a
school's "IT person" who has no previous sugar or linux experience -
what would need to be on their learning curve, to set up such a system?


From the link in Projects/Toast on sugarlabs wiki:

https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/configure-ltsp-server

Sounds possible.

Also ask quidam on #trisquel?

Tom Gilliard
satellit_ on #sugar


Regards,
Iain, aka inkyfingers
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-12 Thread Kenneth Wyrick
Maybe http://en.opensuse.org/Sugar can be something that might work for
some of what we can use.

2012/1/13 Iain Brown Douglas :
> On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 03:21 +0100, Rubén Rodríguez wrote:
>
>> The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a
>> thin
>> client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
>> only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
>> no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
>> have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
>> data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the
>> server
>> makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
>> with class management software like iTALC.
>
> This sounds useful.
>
> (For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client )
>
> So, if an enthusiastic volunteer had demonstrated Sugar on a Stick to a
> school's "IT person" who has no previous sugar or linux experience -
> what would need to be on their learning curve, to set up such a system?

Probably rewardingly tricky.
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-- 
I’m moderate on extroversion.
http://caltek.net/blog
School 2.0 http://etoolkit.org

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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-12 Thread Tim McNamara
2012/1/13 Iain Brown Douglas :
> On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 03:21 +0100, Rubén Rodríguez wrote:
>
>> The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a thin
>> client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
>> only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
>> no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
>> have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
>> data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the server
>> makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
>> with class management software like iTALC.
>
> This sounds useful.
>
> (For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client )
>
> So, if an enthusiastic volunteer had demonstrated Sugar on a Stick to a
> school's "IT person" who has no previous sugar or linux experience -
> what would need to be on their learning curve, to set up such a system?

Probably rewardingly tricky.
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-12 Thread Iain Brown Douglas
On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 03:21 +0100, Rubén Rodríguez wrote:

> The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a thin
> client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
> only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
> no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
> have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
> data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the server
> makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
> with class management software like iTALC.

This sounds useful.

(For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client )

So, if an enthusiastic volunteer had demonstrated Sugar on a Stick to a
school's "IT person" who has no previous sugar or linux experience -
what would need to be on their learning curve, to set up such a system?

Regards,
Iain, aka inkyfingers
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> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-10 Thread Thomas C Gilliard
37 +0100
> From: ru...@gnu.org
> To: cbige...@hotmail.com
> CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; test...@lists.laptop.org; 
support-g...@laptop.org

> Subject: Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!
>
>
> > I called Tom Gilliard today during his ski vacation (oops!) to get
> > some help prepping for showing SoaS at SCaLE 10X Jan 20-22. After we
> > talked about several things I told him I had a "wild idea" that I
> > thought the average non-techie teacher could handle. Why not run
> > SoaS from a Live CD and then save all the files you want to keep on a
> > separate usb stick? This could include additional Activities
> > downloaded from the Sugar Labs website that don't "live" on the Live
> > CD.
>
> This should work out of the box in TOAST -without extra activities-,
> you just need to format the usb drive in ext2(-4) and label it home-rw.
> Then, if you have it plugged during the live cd boot, it will be mounted
> as /home and keep any user changes, downloads, activities, journal...
>
> In any case, how is that an improvement over having both the system and
> the home in the usb as usually?
>
> > IMHO this could really be a breakthrough for getting Sugar into
> > classrooms that can't get XOs.
>
> I think live usb systems are nice for some tasks, but not for serious
> deployments. The live usb persistence methods can -and do- fail,
> specially if you don't shut the system down properly, as impatient kids
> tend to do.
>
> The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a thin
> client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
> only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
> no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
> have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
> data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the server
> makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
> with class management software like iTALC.


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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-10 Thread Caryl Bigenho




Hi Ruben and All,
Tom has warned me that the persistent usbs really are persistent and that 
eventually they fill up and fail!  Not good. That would not be a problem with a 
Live CD as nothing is written to it. Therefore, the extra usb for file 
storage... journal items, extra Activities and the like.
Again, please remember we are talking about the average non-techie educator who 
wants to bring Sugar to their students on whatever old machines they may have. 
While most schools do have a person in charge of technology, in many cases it 
is a regular teacher who just knows a little bit more than other teachers and 
has the time to do it. They may get a tiny bit of training, a small stipend,  
and a special "title" to go with the job, but that is about it.
In the real world, the latest buzz is all about using smart phones, iPod 
touches, and all sorts of tablets with students.  Nothing wrong with that, I 
guess, but having the Sugar Activities available would be nice and gladly 
accepted... if we can make it easy to do.  Tell the teachers they need a "thin 
client" and they may start looking for a skinny student!
Getting a whole school to buy into something like Sugar is a stretch.  It is a 
battle that has to be won, one teacher at a time.  Maybe when the others see it 
in action in some of the classrooms interest will reach a level where a school 
wide adoption would be feasible. 
So enough with the cliches (sorry I used so many), I need to find out how to 
make a Live CD to test this.  The instructions are either gone or buried in the 
wiki (I guess that is one reason why we are refreshing it).  So here is the 
information I need:
1) What is the most up-to-date build you folks would recommend?
2) Where can I find the instructions for making the Live CD?
3) Would it be better to put it onto a DVD since the price is so similar these 
days?
4) What type of CD or DVD works best on a wide variety of intel computers (PC 
and Mac)? (Brand, R, RW or ???)
5) Can the Live CD be easily cloned with a DVD Rewriter?  (I will probably want 
to make at least 100 copies)
6) What other things I haven't thought of should I know?
7) Anyone want to stand by to give advice if I get stuck? (Skype call or irc if 
you must... I do not type well)
Thanks,Caryl
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:21:37 +0100
> From: ru...@gnu.org
> To: cbige...@hotmail.com
> CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; test...@lists.laptop.org; 
> support-g...@laptop.org
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!
> 
> 
> > I called Tom Gilliard today during his ski vacation (oops!) to get
> > some help prepping for showing SoaS at SCaLE 10X Jan 20-22.  After we
> > talked about several things I told him I had a "wild idea" that I
> > thought the average non-techie teacher could handle.  Why not run
> > SoaS from a Live CD and then save all the files you want to keep on a
> > separate usb stick? This could include additional Activities
> > downloaded from the Sugar Labs website that don't "live" on the Live
> > CD.
> 
> This should work out of the box in TOAST -without extra activities-,
> you just need to format the usb drive in ext2(-4) and label it home-rw.
> Then, if you have it plugged during the live cd boot, it will be mounted
> as /home and keep any user changes, downloads, activities, journal...
> 
> In any case, how is that an improvement over having both the system and
> the home in the usb as usually?
> 
> > IMHO this could really be a breakthrough for getting Sugar into
> > classrooms that can't get XOs.
> 
> I think live usb systems are nice for some tasks, but not for serious
> deployments. The live usb persistence methods can -and do- fail,
> specially if you don't shut the system down properly, as impatient kids
> tend to do.
> 
> The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a thin
> client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
> only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
> no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
> have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
> data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the server
> makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
> with class management software like iTALC.

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Re: [IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-10 Thread Rubén Rodríguez

> I called Tom Gilliard today during his ski vacation (oops!) to get
> some help prepping for showing SoaS at SCaLE 10X Jan 20-22.  After we
> talked about several things I told him I had a "wild idea" that I
> thought the average non-techie teacher could handle.  Why not run
> SoaS from a Live CD and then save all the files you want to keep on a
> separate usb stick? This could include additional Activities
> downloaded from the Sugar Labs website that don't "live" on the Live
> CD.

This should work out of the box in TOAST -without extra activities-,
you just need to format the usb drive in ext2(-4) and label it home-rw.
Then, if you have it plugged during the live cd boot, it will be mounted
as /home and keep any user changes, downloads, activities, journal...

In any case, how is that an improvement over having both the system and
the home in the usb as usually?

> IMHO this could really be a breakthrough for getting Sugar into
> classrooms that can't get XOs.

I think live usb systems are nice for some tasks, but not for serious
deployments. The live usb persistence methods can -and do- fail,
specially if you don't shut the system down properly, as impatient kids
tend to do.

The method I think would be a breakthrough for a school is to use a thin
client environment. One server is enough to run a typical school, you
only need to manage one standard GNU/Linux computer, the clients need
no software or configuration, and they can keep whatever they already
have in their hard drives untouched and usable. Also all the students
data are in an easy to backup spot, installing an activity in the server
makes it available for everyone instantly, and you can also combine it
with class management software like iTALC.
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[IAEP] SoaS Breakthrough!

2012-01-10 Thread Caryl Bigenho

Hi Folks,
I called Tom Gilliard today during his ski vacation (oops!) to get some help 
prepping for showing SoaS at SCaLE 10X Jan 20-22.  After we talked about 
several things I told him I had a "wild idea" that I thought the average 
non-techie teacher could handle.  Why not run SoaS from a Live CD and then save 
all the files you want to keep on a separate usb stick? This could include 
additional Activities downloaded from the Sugar Labs website that don't "live" 
on the Live CD.
Each kid could have their own usb and take it to any computer with the Live CD, 
run SoaS and open the files they saved.  If it works on an XO (it does, I have 
tried it), why not with a Live CD?  
Tom is amazing!  He took time out from his ski vacation to add this to the 
Sugar Labs wiki soon after we talked.  You can find it here:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Backup-restore#Backup-Restore_files_from_the_sugar-journal_with_a_2nd_USB-stick
I haven't tried it yet... want to make a new Live CD first, but I'll bet it 
will work fine.  Maybe some of you would like to test it too.  If all is well, 
it will be shown both in the OLPC/Sugar Labs booth and my Sugar presentation at 
SCaLE 10X.
I am probably one of the few people, if not the only person, on these lists who 
has extensive experience teaching our target audience (the average classroom 
teacher) how to overcome their fears and feelings of anxiety (believe me, there 
are plenty of these) and to actually use technology in their own classrooms. 
IMHO this could really be a breakthrough for getting Sugar into classrooms that 
can't get XOs.
Give it a try. Share your experiences. Have your kids/grandkids try it.  See 
how it works. Let me know!
Thanks! (and thanks again, Tom)
Caryl 
P.S. If it doesn't work right... lets work to make it work right!   
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