Re: [IAEP] reluctant/proactive leader
Yama, Your response actually gave me an idea. In the various situations in which I have worked, I have been able to develop students (even at ages 9 and 10) to be real leaders. Perhaps they are the way in to this dilemma. I will find a way to add them to this community. Perhaps, just as in the classroom, when teachers (and others) find the students participating so actively and responsibly, they will be called to join in? What do you think. Gerald On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Yamandu Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.comwrote: On 01/21/2011 08:54 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito wrote originally about something else, but said there: I have been participating in this community for about 2 years. I have received much help and support and encouragement for which I am grateful. But I have been reluctant to have my fellow teachers (who are less technically inclined) to participate because of the frequently highly technical and operational nature of many conversations. I am lost for words. So totally lost for words. What kind of a community you would *not* feel reluctant to have your teachers participate? IAEP is as common ground as you possibly can get. Or are you talking about the support gang? There I can understand sort of maybe, though all kinds of people can benefit to lurk there, and even contribute - maybe they just need to be given a chance, and they will flourish! Of course there is a continuum for the choices an education administrator can make, from wholesale advocacy for participating in all and every community (probably not wise), to a complete ban and prohibition leading to termination for those caught connecting with strangers. Somewhere along the middle I suspect most deployments just do not encourage enough nor their leaders model participation (the later not your case, Gerald, you do participate generously of your time and experience). I am amazed that, for example, Ceibal has over 14.000 teachers with connectivity, and apparently less than 3% have ever signed up to a list or open forum. Peru's emails set up for their project often returned a box full error. I am convinced that one of the the main lessons to be learned through this Education Project is precisely about remote collaboration. It hasn't taken off yet, and I wonder how we can help it happen. How can we bridge real issues like fear of reprisals, fear to seem dumb? Lack of time (real, or imagined for people that otherwise spend hours by the TV or Faisbuk)? Relevant, interesting communication? The next step: kids collaborating beyond their bailiwick? Yama ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] reluctant/proactive leader
On 1/21/2011 11:04 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito wrote: In the various situations in which I have worked, I have been able to develop students (even at ages 9 and 10) to be real leaders. Perhaps they are the way in to this dilemma. I will find a way to add them to this community. Perhaps, just as in the classroom, when teachers (and others) find the students participating so actively and responsibly, they will be called to join in? Coincidentally this is *precisely* the long-term vision for Nick Doiron's emerging global map of Sugar/ICT4E projects -- see below :) -- Help kids everywhere map their world, at http://olpcMAP.net ! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] reluctant/proactive leader
WOW! you /are/ a Courageous Leader! (not to be confused with a N k0rea title :-) which reminds me of an excerpt from Krishnamurti that I have had doing the rounds, precisely on how younger people have an easier time collaborating than so-called adults. Because of its potential OT nature, I am copying it below the fold to mitigate offense - I put in bold the relevant part, to make the load lighter... :-) BTW, reading in between the lines, it turns out it was not that /you/ were reluctant, but rather your teachers? Nice of you to take up the blame. I feel so encouraged by your attitude, and much honored to learn from you Yama On 01/21/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito wrote: Yama, Your response actually gave me an idea. In the various situations in which I have worked, I have been able to develop students (even at ages 9 and 10) to be real leaders. Perhaps they are the way in to this dilemma. I will find a way to add them to this community. Perhaps, just as in the classroom, when teachers (and others) find the students participating so actively and responsibly, they will be called to join in? What do you think. Gerald one of my favorite blogs, framablog.org, had recently a version of this text by Krishnamurti. Since great friends Padmanabha and Rama Rao run the Krishnamurti school in India, it all came together to make me wish to share this with y'all - the subject matter is something we all wonder a lot about: *the purpose of education, cooperation...* One of the basic problems confronting the world is the problem of cooperation. What does the word cooperation mean? To cooperate is to do things together, to build together, to feel together, to have something in common so that we can freely work together. But people generally don't feel inclined to work together naturally, easily, happily; and so they are compelled to work together through various inducements: threat, fear, punishment, reward. This is the common practice throughout the world. Under tyrannical governments you are brutally forced to work together; if you don't cooperate you are liquidated or sent to a concentration camp. In the so-called civilized nations you are induced to work together through the concept of my country, or for an ideology which has been very carefully worked out and widely propagated so that you accept it; or you work together to carry out a plan which somebody has drawn up, a blueprint for Utopia. So, it is the plan, the idea, the authority which induces people to work together. This is generally called cooperation, and in it there is always the implication of reward or punishment, which means that behind such cooperation there is fear. You are always working for something--for the country, for the king, for the party, for God or the Master, for peace, or to bring about this or that reform. Your idea of cooperation is to work together for a particular result. You have an ideal--to build a perfect school, or what you will--towards which you are working, therefore you say cooperation is necessary. All this implies authority, does it not? There is always someone who is supposed to know what is the right thing to do, and therefore you say, We must cooperate in carrying it out. Now, I don't call that cooperation at all. That is not cooperation, it is a form of greed, a form of fear, compulsion. Behind it there is the threat that if you don't cooperate the government won't recognize you, or the Five Year Plan will fail, or you will be sent to a concentration camp, or your country will lose the war, or you may not go to heaven. There is always some form of inducement, and where there is inducement there cannot be real cooperation. Nor is it cooperation when you and I work together merely because we have mutually agreed to do something. In any such agreement what is important is the doing of that particular thing, not working together. You and I may agree to build a bridge, or construct a road, or plant some trees together, but in that agreement there is always the fear of disagreement, the fear that I may not do my share and let you do the whole thing. So it is not cooperation when we work together through any form of inducement, or by mere agreement, because behind all such effort there is the implication of gaining or avoiding something. To me, cooperation is entirely different. Cooperation is the fun of being and doing together--not necessarily doing something in particular. Do you understand? *Young children normally have a feeling for being and doing together. Haven't you noticed this? They will cooperate in anything. There is no question of agreement or disagreement, reward or punishment; they just want to help. They cooperate instinctively, for the fun of being and doing together.* But grown-up people destroy this natural,
Re: [IAEP] reluctant/proactive leader
Yama, Thanks for your kind words. Onward and upward! Gerald On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Yamandu Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.comwrote: WOW! you *are* a Courageous Leader! (not to be confused with a N k0rea title :-) which reminds me of an excerpt from Krishnamurti that I have had doing the rounds, precisely on how younger people have an easier time collaborating than so-called adults. Because of its potential OT nature, I am copying it below the fold to mitigate offense - I put in bold the relevant part, to make the load lighter... :-) BTW, reading in between the lines, it turns out it was not that *you* were reluctant, but rather your teachers? Nice of you to take up the blame. I feel so encouraged by your attitude, and much honored to learn from you Yama On 01/21/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito wrote: Yama, Your response actually gave me an idea. In the various situations in which I have worked, I have been able to develop students (even at ages 9 and 10) to be real leaders. Perhaps they are the way in to this dilemma. I will find a way to add them to this community. Perhaps, just as in the classroom, when teachers (and others) find the students participating so actively and responsibly, they will be called to join in? What do you think. Gerald one of my favorite blogs, framablog.org, had recently a version of this text by Krishnamurti. Since great friends Padmanabha and Rama Rao run the Krishnamurti school in India, it all came together to make me wish to share this with y'all - the subject matter is something we all wonder a lot about: *the purpose of education, cooperation...* One of the basic problems confronting the world is the problem of cooperation. What does the word cooperation mean? To cooperate is to do things together, to build together, to feel together, to have something in common so that we can freely work together. But people generally don't feel inclined to work together naturally, easily, happily; and so they are compelled to work together through various inducements: threat, fear, punishment, reward. This is the common practice throughout the world. Under tyrannical governments you are brutally forced to work together; if you don't cooperate you are liquidated or sent to a concentration camp. In the so-called civilized nations you are induced to work together through the concept of my country, or for an ideology which has been very carefully worked out and widely propagated so that you accept it; or you work together to carry out a plan which somebody has drawn up, a blueprint for Utopia. So, it is the plan, the idea, the authority which induces people to work together. This is generally called cooperation, and in it there is always the implication of reward or punishment, which means that behind such cooperation there is fear. You are always working for something--for the country, for the king, for the party, for God or the Master, for peace, or to bring about this or that reform. Your idea of cooperation is to work together for a particular result. You have an ideal--to build a perfect school, or what you will--towards which you are working, therefore you say cooperation is necessary. All this implies authority, does it not? There is always someone who is supposed to know what is the right thing to do, and therefore you say, We must cooperate in carrying it out. Now, I don't call that cooperation at all. That is not cooperation, it is a form of greed, a form of fear, compulsion. Behind it there is the threat that if you don't cooperate the government won't recognize you, or the Five Year Plan will fail, or you will be sent to a concentration camp, or your country will lose the war, or you may not go to heaven. There is always some form of inducement, and where there is inducement there cannot be real cooperation. Nor is it cooperation when you and I work together merely because we have mutually agreed to do something. In any such agreement what is important is the doing of that particular thing, not working together. You and I may agree to build a bridge, or construct a road, or plant some trees together, but in that agreement there is always the fear of disagreement, the fear that I may not do my share and let you do the whole thing. So it is not cooperation when we work together through any form of inducement, or by mere agreement, because behind all such effort there is the implication of gaining or avoiding something. To me, cooperation is entirely different. Cooperation is the fun of being and doing together--not necessarily doing something in particular. Do you understand? *Young children normally have a feeling for being and doing together. Haven't you noticed this? They will cooperate in anything. There is no question of agreement or disagreement, reward or punishment; they just want to help. They cooperate instinctively, for the fun of being and doing together.*
