Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi Folks..
Sorry my replies have been sort of off and on lately. Still having issues with 
Ed's pacemaker. Hopefully it will be all good soon. He is healing nicely but 
still has occasional dizzy spells.
About the membership list…  Adam will recall the problems we were having with 
the list back in late Jamuary as he was with me at SCaLE when it was all 
happening.  
Sebastian had done a lot of work on the list, sending out a survey via Lime 
Survey to determine who wanted to remain on the list.  There was just one 
problem… several long time contributors did not, for some reason, reply. They 
said they did not receive the survey (went to Spam?). Sebastian assumed that no 
reply meant they no longer wanted to be members. For many, this was not the 
case. 
As the election progressed (over the course of about a week) several members 
who had not replied notified me that they did not receive the survey and did, 
in fact, want to remain on the membership list and to vote. I sent ballots to 
all who had been on the list and asked for ballots. 
Now is a good time to re-visit the membership list and find out who wants to be 
removed. I suggest that this time, rather than removing anyone who doesn't 
reply in the affirmative, we remove only those who specifically ask to be 
removed.
As I am sort of swamped with personal issues right now, perhaps Sebastian or 
Samson (or someone else) would like to do a sweep of the list removing those 
who ask to be taken off. An email to all on the mailing lists should work as a 
notification that they need to ask to be removed. I think Samson has been able 
to add all the recent new members to the list. 
Caryl





> From: d...@lab6.com
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 15:39:38 -0400
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion
> To: h...@laptop.org
> CC: cbige...@hotmail.com; sebast...@fuentelibre.org; samsongo...@hotmail.com; 
> iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> 
> Hi Adam
> 
> On 12 May 2016 at 15:33, Adam Holt <h...@laptop.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> 1. A section of the doc is available live here,
> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Members/List
> >>
> >> 2. That doc shows 279 members
> >>
> >> I've requested access to the doc :) Thanks Samson!
> >
> >
> > I'm NOT questioning Dave Crosslands' personal ethics (although many question
> > his employer's ethics privately)
> 
> I'm contractually bound to clarify this: Google is a client of my
> employer, a UK company of which I am one of the directors, and I'm not
> an employee of Google, and nothing I do should be construed as
> representing Google or any of the company's other clients (BBC, etc.)
> 
> > however more generally there's a very
> > serious institutional/fiduciary problem here, if SL members' non-publishable
> > personal data is being shared with someone who is not a member of Sugar
> > Labs, as Dave Crossland recently stated he is still not a member of SL?
> > That may have changed in recent weeks, but again we have no way of knowing,
> > which is the core issue :)
> 
> I am now a Member, as you can see at the end of the list of members in
> the link I provided :)
> 
> > FWIW many serious organizations wait years before providing this level of
> > access (database of all their members) for profound reasons of
> > conflict-of-interest, and accidental-or-worse-intentional abuse of personal
> > data.
> 
> Those organizations' data is probably more substantial, though. Eg, a
> database of all Mossack Fonseca's clients is rather different to the
> database of volunteers for a free software project (which is already
> public given the public nature of the services rendered voluntarily in
> public bug trackers, mailing lists, etc.)
> 
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave
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Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Adam

On 12 May 2016 at 15:33, Adam Holt  wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> 1. A section of the doc is available live here,
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Members/List
>>
>> 2. That doc shows 279 members
>>
>> I've requested access to the doc :) Thanks Samson!
>
>
> I'm NOT questioning Dave Crosslands' personal ethics (although many question
> his employer's ethics privately)

I'm contractually bound to clarify this: Google is a client of my
employer, a UK company of which I am one of the directors, and I'm not
an employee of Google, and nothing I do should be construed as
representing Google or any of the company's other clients (BBC, etc.)

> however more generally there's a very
> serious institutional/fiduciary problem here, if SL members' non-publishable
> personal data is being shared with someone who is not a member of Sugar
> Labs, as Dave Crossland recently stated he is still not a member of SL?
> That may have changed in recent weeks, but again we have no way of knowing,
> which is the core issue :)

I am now a Member, as you can see at the end of the list of members in
the link I provided :)

> FWIW many serious organizations wait years before providing this level of
> access (database of all their members) for profound reasons of
> conflict-of-interest, and accidental-or-worse-intentional abuse of personal
> data.

Those organizations' data is probably more substantial, though. Eg, a
database of all Mossack Fonseca's clients is rather different to the
database of volunteers for a free software project (which is already
public given the public nature of the services rendered voluntarily in
public bug trackers, mailing lists, etc.)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
___
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Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion

[Adam Holt]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
> 1. A section of the doc is available live here,
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Members/List
>
> 2. That doc shows 279 members
>
> I've requested access to the doc :) Thanks Samson!
>

I'm NOT questioning Dave Crosslands' personal ethics (although many
question his employer's ethics privately) however more generally there's a
very serious institutional/fiduciary problem here, if SL members'
non-publishable personal data is being shared with someone who is not a
member of Sugar Labs, as Dave Crossland recently stated he is still not a
member of SL?  That may have changed in recent weeks, but again we have no
way of knowing, which is the core issue :)

FWIW many serious organizations wait years before providing this level of
access (database of all their members) for profound reasons of
conflict-of-interest, and accidental-or-worse-intentional abuse of personal
data.
___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion

[Adam Holt]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:00 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

>
> Hello Adam, here is the list you ask for. You can ask sebastian about the
> election list.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1bgJ6Z8gHpxIwpNSD8qf8B5n1ZQRA1r0AAdCDcMVeZEs/edit?usp=sharing_eid
> this list contain the names and email addresses of all sugarlabs member.
> But i don't know who is active.
>

Thanks!  As the above member list/voter list document is not public beyond
Caryl/Sebastian/yourself presumably, apparently because it contains
personal info that must be redacted (email addresses and other info that
should not be published without permission?) can you:

(1) publish a redacted public document somewhere for all, conscious of
everyone's privacy?
(2) consider sending a full copy to sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org for
institutional safekeeping?

PS if personal info is being stored outside of public view, on both current
and non-current members -- we should explain our data privacy practices
briefly.  Busy people whose memberships have lapsed might later choose to
rejoin -- but have a right to know what personal privacy data SL is storing
about them (and does that include their voting records or not, etc).
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Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

1. A section of the doc is available live here,
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Members/List

2. That doc shows 279 members

I've requested access to the doc :) Thanks Samson!

Cheers
Dave
___
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Re: [IAEP] SL member list/joining criterion

[samson goddy]

Hello Adam, here is the list you ask for. You can ask sebastian about the 
election list. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1bgJ6Z8gHpxIwpNSD8qf8B5n1ZQRA1r0AAdCDcMVeZEs/edit?usp=sharing_eid
this list contain the names and email addresses of all sugarlabs member. But i 
don't know who is active. Also i sent you a private message which i am waiting 
for your reply. 

Thanks
Samson Goddy
Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 15:44:57 -0400
Subject: SL member list/joining criterion
From: h...@laptop.org
To: cbige...@hotmail.com; sebast...@fuentelibre.org; samsongo...@hotmail.com; 
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org

Caryl, Sebastian, Samson & All,
1) Can you provide all a link to a current (or post-election) SL membership 
list, verified to be reasonably current?
2) How many active and nonactive/lapsed members does SL have exactly, and what 
info do we retain on each, in case they choose to donate/rejoin etc?
Anonymous members are perfectly OK, if some prefer not to have their names or 
other personal info published!
PS can you get the latest (above info+similar) into Dave Crossland's before 
Wiki-Garsdening Wkd?  ___
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