Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 08:55:19 +0300, Matan Cohen wrote: > >we found that it will be the best solution for us is to backup our DATA to >disk and then send it to other more cheaper platform (windows) which will >manage the writing to tapes. > What format for transfer to Windows without loss of data? AMATERSE? Other? Are the data legible on Windows, or must they be restored to mainframe? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Disk replacing Tape?
As a small develop company which don't use the tape to archive only for backups. We are in the processing of get rid of our 3590 (actually the tape driver stop working yesterday). we found that it will be the best solution for us is to backup our DATA to disk and then send it to other more cheaper platform (windows) which will manage the writing to tapes. so all of this step is more for getting rid of the 3590 not Tapes from the cost aspect . On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Gibney, Dave wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > > Behalf Of John McKown > > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:38 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > > Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape? > > > > On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote: > > > Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating > > companies are replacing tape drives with disk drives. > > > > > > I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. > However I > > > am seeing and hearing stories that the movement has started with > > > mainframes. I was wondering if anyone on here is seeing that trend > or > > > staying the same (or increasing). Now I know tape capacity is going > > > through the roof and that might be the reason why some people are > > > saying disk is replacing tape. Disk space is really becoming > cheaper > > > so its not impossible that this might be happening. > > > > > > >From my (admittedly dated) perspective, until the ability to share > > > disk drives (transparently) I do not see the use of tape really > > > decreasing all that much. I would like to hear from the list what > > > their thoughts are about disk replacing tapes on the mainframe > > > happening. Soon/not in the next 20 years/never. > > > > > > Ed > > > > I often wonder how these non-tape users address things like 10 year > > archival copies of programs, data, and reports. Which we need for > legal > > reasons. > > > DFHSM with SMS MGMTCLAS controlled retention. > We also have Control-D for report management and CA-Endevor for source > management. > > > > > -- > > John McKown > > Maranatha! <>< > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- best regards, matan cohen MF System Administrator. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Emulator Sessions Hung
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:16:40 -0400, George Henke wrote: >Thank you, Dave, this is very helpful. > >I would switch the focus now to the one good Attachmate session on the PC >which works. > >Please trace it through the IPL SYSLOG and note where and how it is >activated and how it goes into session. Note its majnode, timing, etc. > >Then without losing your focus, note, as you go along, any irregularities >occurring with the other 3 failing nodes at or about the same time. > This is why I posted. Everything for these four definitions is the same. When I found these messages in the syslog, it was searching on LU name. The one that works on this PC has no messages that I could find based on the LU name. I think I might have also mentioned that there is another PC that handles all of our production sessions that has four identical sessions and all four work as expected. I'll see if I can find something that possibly groups them together. Maybe that's how they're getting activated ??? Doh, I think I'm losing focus Thanks for your help. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Disk replacing Tape?
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of John McKown > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:38 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape? > > On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote: > > Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating > companies are replacing tape drives with disk drives. > > > > I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. However I > > am seeing and hearing stories that the movement has started with > > mainframes. I was wondering if anyone on here is seeing that trend or > > staying the same (or increasing). Now I know tape capacity is going > > through the roof and that might be the reason why some people are > > saying disk is replacing tape. Disk space is really becoming cheaper > > so its not impossible that this might be happening. > > > > >From my (admittedly dated) perspective, until the ability to share > > disk drives (transparently) I do not see the use of tape really > > decreasing all that much. I would like to hear from the list what > > their thoughts are about disk replacing tapes on the mainframe > > happening. Soon/not in the next 20 years/never. > > > > Ed > > I often wonder how these non-tape users address things like 10 year > archival copies of programs, data, and reports. Which we need for legal > reasons. DFHSM with SMS MGMTCLAS controlled retention. We also have Control-D for report management and CA-Endevor for source management. > > -- > John McKown > Maranatha! <>< > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote: > Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating companies > are replacing tape drives with disk drives. > > I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. However I > am seeing and hearing stories that the movement has started with > mainframes. I was wondering if anyone on here is seeing that trend or > staying the same (or increasing). Now I know tape capacity is going > through the roof and that might be the reason why some people are > saying disk is replacing tape. Disk space is really becoming cheaper > so its not impossible that this might be happening. > > >From my (admittedly dated) perspective, until the ability to share > disk drives (transparently) I do not see the use of tape really > decreasing all that much. I would like to hear from the list what > their thoughts are about disk replacing tapes on the mainframe > happening. Soon/not in the next 20 years/never. > > Ed I often wonder how these non-tape users address things like 10 year archival copies of programs, data, and reports. Which we need for legal reasons. -- John McKown Maranatha! <>< -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Disk replacing Tape?
Fully replaced physical tape with virtual around five years ago. Aside from a couple external data exchange (long replced with ftp) we replaced tape with DASD for all but back-up (no application use of tape) more like ten years ago. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Ed Gould > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:20 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Disk replacing Tape? > > Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating > companies are replacing tape drives with disk drives. > > I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. However I am > seeing and hearing stories that the movement has started with mainframes. > I was wondering if anyone on here is seeing that trend or staying the same > (or increasing). Now I know tape capacity is going through the roof and > that might be the reason why some people are saying disk is replacing > tape. Disk space is really becoming cheaper so its not impossible that > this might be happening. > > From my (admittedly dated) perspective, until the ability to share disk > drives (transparently) I do not see the use of tape really decreasing all > that much. I would like to hear from the list what their thoughts are > about disk replacing tapes on the mainframe happening. Soon/not in the > next 20 years/never. > > Ed > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 Queue Times / SMF30 Data Zones
From: Tom Wasik To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 12:23:05 PM Subject: Re: JES2 Queue Times / SMF30 Data Zones Let me explain what each time means/comes from and perhaps that will help answer your questions: SMF30RST - The comment in the IFASMFR3 macro states "TIME, IN HUNDREDTHS OF A SECOND READER RECOGNIZED THE JOB CARD FOR THIS JOB." This is precisely correct. It is when JES2 input processing sees the JOB card. In z/OS 1.7 this happens a bit earlier for internal readers than prior releases (in case that matters). 11.08.15 JOB94550 TUESDAY, 01 JUN 2010 This is when the first message is placed in the job log for the job. This is when the data set is created. In general, the first message for a job is the RACF message that the job has been authenticated and assigned a userid. This occurs at the end of input processing (when JES2 realizes that it has a complete job). For TSO SUBMIT processing, it is when it reaches the end of the job stream and issues an ENDREQ macro to get the job id. It also occurs when a IEBGENER closes the internal reader. Or it occurs when the next JOB card is encountered. The difference between these 2 time stamps is the time it took to complete input processing for the job. This includes the RACF check and writing the job to SPOOL. It also includes the time the submitting application took to actually write the job. There have been cases when an application was submitting multiple jobs but did not tell JES when one job ended. In that case, the job will sit there until the next job is written to the internal reader. There are some rare cases where the first message into a job log does not occur during input processing. For example when you supply a userid and password on the job card and did not enable the "ICH70002I YOUR PASSWORD WILL EXPIRE IN xx DAYS." message. Then the first message occurs at conversion time. Just submit a job with TYPRUN=JCLHOLD to see what messages are issued at input time vs conversion time. ---SNIP-- Good information Tom, thanks. I was running into similar issues a long time ago. But in slightly different circumstances. What gets interesting in an NJE environment. The timing is unusual and while semi explainable (for the most part) what was unexplainable (at least to me) when date lines get crossed and it seemed at that time I was coming up with negative times. I never did get a good explanation as to why although I think I read an IBM article about NJE and they did address it (negative times) anyway its been ages and it might not be an issue now as it was back then. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Disk replacing Tape?
Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating companies are replacing tape drives with disk drives. I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. However I am seeing and hearing stories that the movement has started with mainframes. I was wondering if anyone on here is seeing that trend or staying the same (or increasing). Now I know tape capacity is going through the roof and that might be the reason why some people are saying disk is replacing tape. Disk space is really becoming cheaper so its not impossible that this might be happening. >From my (admittedly dated) perspective, until the ability to share disk drives >(transparently) I do not see the use of tape really decreasing all that much. >I would like to hear from the list what their thoughts are about disk >replacing tapes on the mainframe happening. Soon/not in the next 20 >years/never. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Deloying updates to applications using FLASHCOPY
W dniu 2010-06-20 17:01, Arye Shemer pisze: Hello Forumers, A customer is looking for references of installation which are using FLASHCOPY or other similar technology to deploy (several times in a year) masive updates to their application avoiding disruption to the service for the end users. I strongly doubt if there are any. Reasons: 1. Flashcopy is (was) related to specific hardware. It's not good idea to tie application with DASD vendor and have no warranty about the future of the implementations (see Snapshot). 2. FC is done at very low level, which is not suitable for most application data structures on DASD. It could be used to REPLACE whole datasets or preferrably volumes, but not records. And such update can be prepared without FC. 3. Your ideas are discrepant (incoherent). You want to use fast copy to avoid outage. Fast copy could only minimize time of outage, *unless the application is able to run during the update* - but then fast copy in not crucial for the process. My €0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Deloying updates to applications using FLASHCOPY
Hi Arie, Interesting Issue. I suppose that service is given by a kind of transaction manager like CICS as you mentioned "avoiding disruption". Assuming that the updates are stored in PDS(as loadmods), how can you ensure that the datasets are positioned on disk exactly as mapped at time the dataset was open with same (number and size of) extents? This might work if the PDS is large inhalf and was not compressed (it would cause unpredictable results to CICS, for example). Itschak On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Lizette Koehler wrote: > Is this for strictly VSAM databases? Or DB2? Or Other? > > Is your desire to create a test DataBase, back it up (using FLashcopy) and > put it on a different LPAR into production? > Or are you looking to put it on a different op/sys like AIX or Solaris? > > If strictly mainframe, what is your current z/OS level? And what hardware > is your dasd? (EMC, IBM, other)? > > > > Lizette > > > > > > Hello Forumers, > > > > A customer is looking for references of installation which are using > > FLASHCOPY or other similar technology to deploy > > (several times in a year) masive updates to their application avoiding > > disruption to the service for the end users. > > > > Could you please share your experience in this area, > > no need for actual names, but just exprience and other insights. > > > > The storage guys in my area were not very helpful due to fact that > > they know a lot of customers using FLASHCOPY but could not > > tell about the combination of Deloying updates to applications using > > FLASHCOPY. > > > > Thank you for any help on the subject, > > > > Arye Shemer. > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Deloying updates to applications using FLASHCOPY
Is this for strictly VSAM databases? Or DB2? Or Other? Is your desire to create a test DataBase, back it up (using FLashcopy) and put it on a different LPAR into production? Or are you looking to put it on a different op/sys like AIX or Solaris? If strictly mainframe, what is your current z/OS level? And what hardware is your dasd? (EMC, IBM, other)? Lizette > > Hello Forumers, > > A customer is looking for references of installation which are using > FLASHCOPY or other similar technology to deploy > (several times in a year) masive updates to their application avoiding > disruption to the service for the end users. > > Could you please share your experience in this area, > no need for actual names, but just exprience and other insights. > > The storage guys in my area were not very helpful due to fact that > they know a lot of customers using FLASHCOPY but could not > tell about the combination of Deloying updates to applications using > FLASHCOPY. > > Thank you for any help on the subject, > > Arye Shemer. > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Deloying updates to applications using FLASHCOPY
Hello Forumers, A customer is looking for references of installation which are using FLASHCOPY or other similar technology to deploy (several times in a year) masive updates to their application avoiding disruption to the service for the end users. Could you please share your experience in this area, no need for actual names, but just exprience and other insights. The storage guys in my area were not very helpful due to fact that they know a lot of customers using FLASHCOPY but could not tell about the combination of Deloying updates to applications using FLASHCOPY. Thank you for any help on the subject, Arye Shemer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT and SORTWK space
Your assumptions are correct. You can increase the total amount of work space possible by increasing the number of work data sets that DFSORT dynamically allocates. This is by using the n value in the DYNALOC installation default or the DYNALLOC run time options. For example OPTION DYNALLOC=(SYSDA,8) Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: bet...@us.ibm.com DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 06/20/2010 01:30:38 AM: > [image removed] > > DFSORT and SORTWK space > > R.S. > > to:. > > IBM-MAIN > > 06/20/2010 01:31 AM > > Sent by: > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List. > > If you omit SORTWKnn DDnames then - assumed default values used - DFSORT > will use 3 datasets, in LARGE format. Every sort work dataset is single > volume, so the limit for default sort work space depends on size (and > free space) of work volumes. > Q: Am I right with the above? > > For example, I have several mod-54 work volumes, so my sort work space > limit is approximately 3x65500 cylinders. > > Further question: What if volumes are framgmented? LARGE PS has limit of > 16 extents, so the volume fragmentation could lead to smaller maximum > sizes - is it true? > > > Regards > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > > -- > BRE Bank SA > ul. Senatorska 18 > 00-950 Warszawa > www.brebank.pl > > Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy > XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, > nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 > NIP: 526-021-50-88 > Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA > (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z > realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na > podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI > NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty > 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku > SA będą w całości opłacone. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Emulator Sessions Hung
Awesome, Chris. I'm impressed. But, it looks like the ball is now in Dave's court. With your expertise, all he needs to do us give you enough information and this problem is history. On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Chris Mason wrote: > George > > Yes, I thought about LOGAPPL as something to mention in my first response > but then I rejected it - and that was before I spotted that the "dog didn't > bark in the night", that is, the IST890I message was missing. > > The reason I rejected it was that, in order for the mechanism associated > with > the LOGAPPL operand to be "fired off" by VTAM, VTAM has to have the > primary LU application active - strictly "enabled for logons" - and the > secondary LU has to be activated and "enabled". If the secondary LU has > been activated it *must* have an SSCP-LU session in place. If an SSCP-LU > session is in place, sense code 08970003 cannot apply. > > In case, the sense codes were being lazy, I even checked that there is a > sense code for being active but not "enabled", 083A0002. But since the > mechanism needs the secondary LU to be "enabled" even this would not have > been seen. > > LOGAPPL and this AUTOLOGON process is quite interesting. When APPN was > introduced, it went from being completely reliable in the subarea context > to > becoming flaky in the APPN context. Hence the AUTORTRY and AUTOTI start > options were introduced as a way of trying to compensate. Since I had to > teach APPN VTAM, I took some interest in this process. > > Well, I just checked my notes, I actually cover this topic in my non-APPN > VTAM presentation notes since I already had the LOGAPPL topic covered and I > need to incorporate the AUTORTRY and AUTOTI start options. I checked all > those notes and I cannot see - even when the named application resides with > another VTAM - a VTAM restart (as part of the IPL) could cause the effect > Dave Kopischke observes. > > We are still labouring under the considerable handicap of not having been > told > by Dave what flavour of TN3270 server he is using. Assuming it is the OSA- > ICC, there is a point to get out of the way. I tried to see if there was > anything in Chapter 11, "Programming for the IBM 3270 Information Display > System" of the z/OS Communications Server SNA Programming manual > regarding what might be said concerning a pre/non-SNA channel-attached > 3270 device which was just not there, the equivalent of "powered off" which > is I believe how the OSA-ICC behaves when there is no TN3270 TCP > connection in place. There was nothing, so it seems that the LU will be > considered to have an SSCP-LU session in place and be "enabled" when the > LOCAL statement has been activated. > > > The LOGAPPL acts like a VARY ACT, ACQ ... > > Only when VTAM is prompted by the secondary LU definition with LOGAPPL > specified becoming active and "enabled". > > > ... if the APPL it is trying to Bind the terminal to is non-existent, not > ready, > or whatever, the blank or > whatever screen on the 3 failing devices is typically the result. > > A primary LU (application) will not send a BIND to a secondary LU unless > there > has been a successful session setup first. It is the session *setup* to > which > the message group headed by the IST663I message refers. There is, of course > an exception to this bare statement which does not apply here which is a > LEN > session setup. Such a session can be initiated purely by sending a BIND > request - and it doesn't actually need to be an LU type 6.2 session but > that's > another story ... > > > It may even be something missing in TCPPARMS. > > It won't be any sort of TCPPARMS data set or member if the TN3270 server is > an OSA-ICC. > > > 1) The problem occurs only after IPL > > Yes > > > 2) The devices come up inactive > > It's not quite clear what Dave's "inactive" is. > > > 3) To start the sessions, Attachmate must be restarted. > > I think there is some sort of restart of the TN3270 client program. > > Chris Mason > > On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:40:45 -0400, George Henke > wrote: > > >Chris, > > > >I like Richard Puerifoy's suggestion, which "cuts to the chase", to check > >that the LOGAPPL parameter for these devices in VTAMLST is not coded with > >something strange. > > > >How many times have we seen that happen? > > > >The LOGAPPL acts like a VARY ACT, ACQ and if the APPL it is trying to Bind > >the terminal to is non-existent, not ready, or whatever, the blank or > >whatever screen on the 3 failing devices is typically the result. > > > >You may still be right, though, about it being a timing problem. It may > >even be something missing in TCPPARMS. > > > >We just don't know enough yet. > > > >Every lawyer knows "get all the facts" because just one missing fact can > >change the entire case. > > > >The problem with "shooting" network problems like these is that there are > >soo many things "that can go wrong". So the first job is to stay > >focused. > > > >The most "telling" facts so far are: > >
