Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:23:00 -0500, Scott Rowe wrote:

>gil, the TZ value can be specified with boundaries.  I remember setting them
>when the boundaries were changed (2007).
>
In z/OS, how do you specify the boundary between 2006 and 2007
when the US changed the rules?  Inquiring minds want to know.

It works in Linux.  It works in Mac OS X.  It works in Solaris.
but not, AFAIK, in z/OS Unix System Services.

-- gil

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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[John McKown]

On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 15:12 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:16:45 -0600, John McKown  wrote:
> 
> 
> Not like any other UNIX system.  z/OS converts timestamps incorrectly
> for a few weeks in each year prior to 2006 (in the US); other UNIX
> systems get it right.  Try April 1, 2005, or Oct 31, 2005 (I'm
> guessing) on both Linux and z/OS.
> 
> -- gil

That, to me, indicates that their timezone data is bad somewhere. IBM
could fix it with a new timezone "database". I know that on Linux, when
the governments mess around with the timezones, I end up with a new
tzdata rpm. I don't know the internals to z/OS UNIX's implementation,
but I would almost bet there is something similar.

-- 
John McKown
Maranatha! <><

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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Scott Rowe]

Not when you have STP or an ETR.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Brian Kennelly

> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 14:12, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:
>
> > Did you imply in your previoust that z/VM requires an IPL?  z/OS
> > does better than that (at least if you have ETR/STP).
> >
>
> No, it does not require it.  You can change the time zone with a a command,
> but when you do need to IPL, it will pick up the correct offset, without
> operator intervention.  On z/OS, you can change the timezone with a command
> also, but you must change the CLOCKxx member or rely on the operator to get
> the correct value when you IPL.
>
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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Scott Rowe]

gil, the TZ value can be specified with boundaries.  I remember setting them
when the boundaries were changed (2007).

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:16:45 -0600, John McKown  wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 09:17 -0700, Brian Kennelly wrote:
> >> That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
> >> offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE
> and, of
> >> course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?
> >>
> z/VM SENDFILE attempts to place UTC (GMT) in the NETDATA package.  Alas,
> the file timestamp which is kept by bad design in local time, not UTC,
> is adjusted by the offset in effect at the time the file was transmitted,
> not when it was created.  This gives an incorrect result about 50% of the
> time.
>
> Did you imply in your previoust that z/VM requires an IPL?  z/OS
> does better than that (at least if you have ETR/STP).
>
> >Don't know. It would cost money in terms of development and support. And
> >z/OS UNIX does implement it via the TZ environment variable, just like
> >any other UNIX system. So only legacy is left out in the cold. Or to be
> >implemented via a high cost solution: STP or ETR timers.
> >
> Not like any other UNIX system.  z/OS converts timestamps incorrectly
> for a few weeks in each year prior to 2006 (in the US); other UNIX
> systems get it right.  Try April 1, 2005, or Oct 31, 2005 (I'm
> guessing) on both Linux and z/OS.
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Brian Kennelly]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 14:12, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:

> Did you imply in your previoust that z/VM requires an IPL?  z/OS
> does better than that (at least if you have ETR/STP).
>

No, it does not require it.  You can change the time zone with a a command,
but when you do need to IPL, it will pick up the correct offset, without
operator intervention.  On z/OS, you can change the timezone with a command
also, but you must change the CLOCKxx member or rely on the operator to get
the correct value when you IPL.

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Re: Tivoli Storage Manager for z/OS (Functionally Stablized & Impending Demise)

[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-11-07 19:10, Mike Schwab pisze:

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 11:57 AM, R.S.  wrote:

W dniu 2010-11-05 13:38, Jim Marshall pisze:



Question - 2:

So what are people going to use to back up things like your zFS/HFS files
on
z/OS to get granularity in the restoring at the file level.


My guess: NOTHING.
Usually people do not keep important data in HFS files. Obviously there are
"target zone" binaries, there are config (PARMLIB like) files, and few
operational files. But usually not application data. For such shops whole
filesystem dump granularity is OK.
The rest (minority IMHO) use TSM *client* or Tantia (Betasystems product),
or FDR, or homegrown utilities based on pax.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


How about requesting a requirement to run z/OS without zFS / HFS due
to the lack of a backup product.



Why? Pure z/OS has no product for backup datasets. Note: DFSMShsm is 
paid feature and there are competitive products, like FDR/ABR.
Similar scenario apply for HFS files - there are basic methods like pax 
(IMHO much more powerful than IDCAMS or IEBGENER for datasets). There 
are add-on products like TSM client, Tantia, Innovation.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:16:45 -0600, John McKown  wrote:

>On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 09:17 -0700, Brian Kennelly wrote:
>> That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
>> offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and, of
>> course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?
>>
z/VM SENDFILE attempts to place UTC (GMT) in the NETDATA package.  Alas,
the file timestamp which is kept by bad design in local time, not UTC,
is adjusted by the offset in effect at the time the file was transmitted,
not when it was created.  This gives an incorrect result about 50% of the
time.

Did you imply in your previoust that z/VM requires an IPL?  z/OS
does better than that (at least if you have ETR/STP).

>Don't know. It would cost money in terms of development and support. And
>z/OS UNIX does implement it via the TZ environment variable, just like
>any other UNIX system. So only legacy is left out in the cold. Or to be
>implemented via a high cost solution: STP or ETR timers.
>
Not like any other UNIX system.  z/OS converts timestamps incorrectly
for a few weeks in each year prior to 2006 (in the US); other UNIX
systems get it right.  Try April 1, 2005, or Oct 31, 2005 (I'm
guessing) on both Linux and z/OS.

-- gil

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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[John McKown]

On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 09:17 -0700, Brian Kennelly wrote:
> That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
> offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and, of
> course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?
> 

Don't know. It would cost money in terms of development and support. And
z/OS UNIX does implement it via the TZ environment variable, just like
any other UNIX system. So only legacy is left out in the cold. Or to be
implemented via a high cost solution: STP or ETR timers.

-- 
John McKown
Maranatha! <><

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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Brian Kennelly]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 11:17, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:

> z/VM?  Enlighten me.  Last I looked, if I performed a SENDFILE
> the Friday before the DST change and received it the Monday after,
> the restored time stamp was an hour off.  Likewise the times
> shown by the CP DISPLAY READER command.  I suspect there are
> Info APARs defining these behaviors as features.
>

That may have more to do with the way the timestamps are encoded in the
spool files, than with the way the z/VM clock is set.

In the z/VM system configuration, you can set the time zone boundaries, so
that the appropriate GMT offset will be used when you IPL.  (Likewise in
z/VSE.)  It does not switch automatically, but it does simplify things.

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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 09:17:30 -0700, Brian Kennelly wrote:

>That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
>offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and, of
>course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?
>
z/OS Unix System Services allows definition of the offsets, but
not the boundaries.  See:

http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm

I suppose z/OS eschews this technology in the name of POSIX
compatibility while mistaking an extension with an incompatibility.

z/VM?  Enlighten me.  Last I looked, if I performed a SENDFILE
the Friday before the DST change and received it the Monday after,
the restored time stamp was an hour off.  Likewise the times
shown by the CP DISPLAY READER command.  I suspect there are
Info APARs defining these behaviors as features.

Example: the file on the A drive was transmitted by SENDFILE last
week; it was RECEIVEd to the G drive a few minutes ago:

Cmd   Filename Filetype Fm Format LreclRecords Blocks   Date Time
  FTPXFER  EXEC A2 V 71 68  1 11/03/10 14:10:27
  FTPXFER  EXEC G2 V 71 68  1 11/03/10 13:10:27

Does TSO TRANSMIT do any better?

-- gil

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Re: Tivoli Storage Manager for z/OS (Functionally Stablized & Impending Demise)

[Mike Schwab]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 11:57 AM, R.S.  wrote:
> W dniu 2010-11-05 13:38, Jim Marshall pisze:

>> Question - 2:
>>
>> So what are people going to use to back up things like your zFS/HFS files
>> on
>> z/OS to get granularity in the restoring at the file level.
>
> My guess: NOTHING.
> Usually people do not keep important data in HFS files. Obviously there are
> "target zone" binaries, there are config (PARMLIB liek) files, and few
> operational files. But usually not application data. For such shops whole
> filesystem dump granularity is OK.
> The rest (minority IMHO) use TSM *client* or Tantia (Betasystems product),
> or FDR, or homegrown utilities based on pax.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland

How about requesting a requirement to run z/OS without zFS / HFS due
to the lack of a backup product.

-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Tivoli Storage Manager for z/OS (Functionally Stablized & Impending Demise)

[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-11-05 13:38, Jim Marshall pisze:

I called IBM in yesterday to get an update to learn if TSM for z/OS was still
destined for the scapeheap come 2013 and indeed it is.  Although one can
prolong its life by 3-4 years aftyer 2013 paying extra for extended support.
The pitch is to move your TSM over to zLinux, AIX, Windows, etc.   This is not
appealing for a number of reasons why we went with TSM for z/OS; 99.999%
availability, automation, operational advantages, use existing IBM VTS/ATL,
tape management as a part of either RMM or CA-1, etc.

Back when I heard the annoucement a few years ago, the IBM party line I
heard at SHARE each year (2 years running) was TSM was converting over to
use DB2 as its catalog store. IBM had discovered using DB2 for z/OS would
mean a spectacular performance hit and running on distributed systems using
UDB/DB2 it ran like a bandit.  Therefore it was DB2's fault and they had no
choice.

Yesterday the story was met with amazement and it has changed to no one
was using TSM for z/OS and I was only one of "five" total.  Therefore it was
an economic decision (which if true makes sense). Also the TSM folks believe
the world is going over to zLinux besides because of the big upswing in the
number sold last year (probably very true).

Question - 1:

"SO" I would like to know who are the other four people who had a similar idea

[...]
I don't know those 4 people, but I remember IBM sales and they opinion 
about TSM on z/OS. They did everything to dissuade customer from 
choosing that platform. I observed it several times and only only lately 
(during several years).




Question - 2:

So what are people going to use to back up things like your zFS/HFS files on
z/OS to get granularity in the restoring at the file level.

My guess: NOTHING.
Usually people do not keep important data in HFS files. Obviously there 
are "target zone" binaries, there are config (PARMLIB liek) files, and 
few operational files. But usually not application data. For such shops 
whole filesystem dump granularity is OK.
The rest (minority IMHO) use TSM *client* or Tantia (Betasystems 
product), or FDR, or homegrown utilities based on pax.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy 
XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, 
nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237

NIP: 526-021-50-88
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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Mike Schwab]

Mainframes are often run by companies with offices in several time
zones across a continent or around the world, so are often set to GMT
and let the local offices deal with the varying time differences.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Sam Siegel  wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
>
>> And even in the dread Windows!
>>
>>
> Weekend joke:  z/OS doesn't need no stink'n predefined time zones.  It
> exists in Einsteinian time:
>
> http://everythingforever.com/einstein.htm
>
> Note: Feynman and Hawkings came to the same conclusion.
>
> Cheers,
> Sam
>
> Charles
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Brian Kennelly
>> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 8:18 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>> Subject: Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639
>>
>> That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
>> offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and,
>> of
>> course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?
>>
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-- 
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[zMan]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 10:54 AM, john gilmore  wrote:
> Move this discussion to TSO-REXX or elsewhere as you see fit.  I am an 
> advocate of proper fora, and I
> shall not feel excluded from a discussion I am unaware of.

Jawohl, Herr Oberst.

Actually, no. This isn't TSO-REXX specific; it's Rexx-specific. And
Rexx has been the scripting language on all major IBM platforms for
20+ years, including mainframes. So this is hardly the improper forum.
-- 
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Re: Long Parameters, Symbolic Replacement and Control Cards

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In , on
10/16/2010
   at 12:23 AM, Clement Clarke  said:

>Standard APF facilities are used, so Authorised or Non-Authorised 
>programs may be used.

What are you trying to say? Do you mean that you will invoke
unauthorized programs as authotized, or do you mean that you ATTACH
the program as a jobstep with RSAPF=YES?
 
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Re: Necessity of UID zero.

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
<1910aea19cd2554fb59403184ebe4381029885e...@mmoexchmbs01.jhacorp.com>,
on 10/26/2010
   at 02:09 PM, Hal Merritt  said:

> I am in the crossfire between auditors insisting that nothing needs
>UID 0 and sysprogs insiting that everything in their serverpac jobs
>must have UID zero as coded.

They're both wrong. Do you have management buyin to demanding
competent auditors?

>Any suggestions?

Ask for trained auditors and ask the sysprogs to RTFM. Some jobs need
UID(0). Others will run just fine if the userid has appropriate
privileges. The Devil is in the details.

In a previous life I refused to grant myself UID(0) and ran SMP jobs
with a proxy userid. 
 
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Re: Necessity of UID zero.

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <4cc73536.9010...@bremultibank.com.pl>, on 10/26/2010
   at 10:08 PM, "R.S."  said:

>2. Since serverpac installation is (should) never been done on 
>productions system as a driver

Nonsense.
 
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Re: Necessity of UID zero.

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <4cc7e75f.7060...@bremultibank.com.pl>, on 10/27/2010
   at 10:48 AM, "R.S."  said:

>1. Wide authorities needed for the installation. I.e. person who 
>performs the installation need to create many RACF definitions which 
>implies SPECIAL.

Nonsense; the person who does the installation can request changes
from the security staff. While I have had RACF SPECIAL, that was a
convenience[1], not a necessity.

>2. Operations on ICF catalogs.

User catalogs address that issue.

>3. Similar problems with HFS filesystems - a mistake could result in
> change content of production filesystems.

That's a stretch.

[1] Not necessarily for *my* convenience.
 
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Re: IDCAMS ALTER and GDGs - From A(0) to B(+1) - Relative Generations

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 11/05/2010
   at 07:54 PM, Martin Packer  said:

>In this case it boils down to renaming FILE1(0) to FILE2(+1). IDCAMS
>ALTER will do it with hardcoded generations and versions.

What's wrong with using CSI to extract the data, then using RENAME
from REXX?

>However, I'd prefer not to have to recommend absolute generations
>and  versions.

Why, as long as it's not hard coded?
 
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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Sam Siegel]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:

> And even in the dread Windows!
>
>
Weekend joke:  z/OS doesn't need no stink'n predefined time zones.  It
exists in Einsteinian time:

http://everythingforever.com/einstein.htm

Note: Feynman and Hawkings came to the same conclusion.

Cheers,
Sam

Charles
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of Brian Kennelly
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 8:18 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639
>
> That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
> offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and,
> of
> course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?
>
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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Charles Mills]

And even in the dread Windows!

Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Brian Kennelly
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 8:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and, of
course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?

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Re: Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Brian Kennelly]

That raises a question.  Why is there no way to pre-define the time zone
offsets and boundaries in z/OS?  You can do it easily in z/VM, z/VSE and, of
course, Linux.  Why not z/OS?


On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 09:11, Sam Golob  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
>   CBT Tape File 639 from Hunter Zhou is a very fast and clever and "on the
> fly" way of changing the system time, so you may not be forced to IPL.
>  SETHOUR is on File 639, and it is quite easy to set up, with 3 procedures
> and an APF-authorized program.  SETHOUR not only resets the system clock on
> the operating system, but it edits the current CLOCKxx PARMLIB member
> automatically, so that the clock changes are saved after an IPL.  Try it on
> your test system.  You may like it well enough to use it in production.
>
>   All the best of everything to all of you.  (CBT disclaimer still applies,
> but I have found this to be very handy and useful.)
>
> Sincerely,Sam Golob
>
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Fast way of changing time - CBT File 639

[Sam Golob]

Hi Folks,

   CBT Tape File 639 from Hunter Zhou is a very fast and clever and "on 
the fly" way of changing the system time, so you may not be forced to 
IPL.  SETHOUR is on File 639, and it is quite easy to set up, with 3 
procedures and an APF-authorized program.  SETHOUR not only resets the 
system clock on the operating system, but it edits the current CLOCKxx 
PARMLIB member automatically, so that the clock changes are saved after 
an IPL.  Try it on your test system.  You may like it well enough to use 
it in production.


   All the best of everything to all of you.  (CBT disclaimer still 
applies, but I have found this to be very handy and useful.)


Sincerely,Sam Golob

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Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[john gilmore]

Move this discussion to TSO-REXX or elsewhere as you see fit.  I am an advocate 
of proper fora, and I 
shall not feel excluded from a discussion I am unaware of.
 
John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA

  
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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 07:37:01 -0600, John McKown wrote:
>
>I agree that Object REXX on z/OS, especially in the UNIX arena, would be
>wonderful. Once again, I am frustrated by things beyond my control. I

Could such a port be naturally compatible with all the existing
host command environments (TSO, ISPEXEC, ISREDIT, MVS, LINKMVS,
SYSCALL, SDSF, etc.), or would they need to be recoded entirely,
or at least a lot of glue code written?  Could Object REXX call
existing functions in classic Rexx and vice-versa?  What about
Object System Rexx?

>would love to look at porting it. The source is available. What is not
>available, to me, is a real C compiler. GCC is a real C compiler. But I
>just can't get the GCCMVS to work for me. Guess I'm just stupid. I
>failed compiler theory in college and it's still haunting me, 35 years
>later.
>
That's not theory; that's practice.

This thread would better be on TSO-REXX, except that John G.
wouldn't be able to contribute.

-- gil

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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[Phil Smith]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Martin Packer  wrote:
> Not to dismiss the sample at all but...

> ... this really shows off the grottiness of Classic REXX as a language...
> I have incantations just like these (and knowing enough of object-oriented
> languages and Object REXX) I wonder why we haven't ported Open Object Rexx
> to z/OS yet... Most of this example would be MUCH better if implemented in
> Object REXX. For example alloc_member and alloc_dsname stems could be
> attributes/properties/members of a single object. (And increment and
> decrement operators wouldn't be a bad idea either - though in THIS case
> some form of collection class would probably be better.)

You're misinterpreting (sic) the goals of Rexx, and calling it "grotty" in the 
wrong context. It's like complaining about the cargo capacity of your 
motorcycle, or the acceleration of your semi (truck).

Classic Rexx was designed to be easy to use, even for end-users. The fact that 
it's gone way beyond that and is used for full-fledge applications is a tribute 
to its elegance and power. Hardly grottiness.

If you showed the average non-programmer Object Rexx, they wouldn't "get it" 
and wouldn't use it. And loading it up with operators like increment and 
decrement not only won't help, but will hurt.
--
...phsiii

Phil Smith III


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Re: REDBOOKS Question

[Chris Mason]

Terry

Along with AFAIK - "as far as I know" - perhaps it's time to invent 
JOTTOMHWHBTDAR - "just off the top of my head without having bothered to 
do any research".

Having read only your first sentence, I called up 

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/

and started checking. When I got to the 4th "hit", I found

SG24-6351-03

which happens to be "Threadsafe Considerations for CICS", not that it matters.

> Redbooks once published are not updated.

So that's a "holed below the waterline"!

> There are no dash numbers ...

I could excuse "no dash numbers" if there are only ever "-00" "dash numbers" 
since the "dash numbers" are an integral part of the IBM "form number" 
scheme.

I also thought I had to do my research because the most recent redbook I 
have been using which I knew had a non-zero "dash number" is "Inside APPN 
and HPR - The Essential Guide to New SNA", SG24-3669-03. But it is rather 
old, 1997 - not that that fact detracts in any way whatsoever from its 
content.

Then I remembered that I often refer to the "OSA-Express Implementation 
Guide" which has attained the heady heights of "-05", SG24-5948-05, and is 
only 18 months old. Given that its "companion" regular manual, "Open Systems 
Adapter-Express Customer's Guide and Reference", has a new edition this 
year, SA22-7935-11, August 2010, with a couple of potentially handy 
performance enhancemements that look like they might benefit from an 
expanded explanation and even a "sandbox workout", I expect we might see 
yet another increment to the "dash number" any time soon.

Time to launch the lifeboats I think!

> ... or TNLs.

Long ago when redbooks didn't have backs - I think we're talking mid-'80s or 
even earlier here and we're talking the original name WTSC rather than ITSO - 
and were three-ring binder fodder in the same way as regular manuals, TNLs, 
the curse of the conscientious technical support wallah, made sense. With 
glued backs, TNLs do not make sense and the options are

1. get it right first time, the frequent failure of which is down to supposed 
typically development reviewers not actually being given the mission or time to 
support this peripheral activity - and we all know who's to blame there ...

2. just hold fire until it's time for the next update - normally I would have 
thought with the same "form number" - which will happen if the topic has a 
future

> A new Redbooks on the same or similar subject has a completely new 
number.

My metaphor is breaking down since I can only think of one involving digging 
and you don't dig water!

> These are only done when a major change to the subject requires it and the 
lab that develops the product wants a new Redbook.

I guess whether a new "form number" or a new "dash number" is used is down 
to a flipped coin on the thumbnail of the "suit" in charge of the topic in the 
ITSO centre - or should that be center.

> Error should be trapped at the draft stage before publication.

See above. Actually, I see that "draft" redbooks appear on the redbook site 
and I even tried to get one, the CCL one - now SG24-7223-01 - mainly with 
the objective of purging the "howlers" in the first edition - but I was too 
late 
apparently. Probably, there ought to be a system whereby parties likely to be 
relevant to a review, other than development, could be alerted to a 
new "draft" - often for a new "dash number" in all likelihood - having appeared.

> If not then they will remain for the life of the Redbook.

Without TNLs, inevitable - and it happened when WTSC/ITSO discovered glue.

> I have been involved in several Redbooks.

Probably, the particular ITSO center responsible for the topic in which you 
would appear to be an acclaimed specialist had an ecologically unsound policy 
regarding "form numbers"!

> I always say the product manual is the definitive source of information on 
the subject.

This is the *legal* "party line", if not regrettably always reliably true.

Going back to my original point, "Google is your friend". I recently discovered 
an interesting and highly relevant fact about a product function which had 
existed since the mid-'90s but was documented as "new" only this September 
in z/OS V1R12. What it actually revealed was that IBM had been using an API 
function which was "safe" only when the two participating components 
were "in step" and what was new was removing this requirement, not the 
function itself. The "fact" was revealed - "by accident" - in the notes to 
another enhancement in the presentations that seem to go along with new 
z/OS releases.[1] Given my interests, I am obviously talking about the two 
sides of Communications Server.

Moral: the "definitive" source of information is what the product actually 
does. 
This was the "source" I used for my classes but thankfully in those days I had 
sufficient "sandboxes" to verify what I taught. Today, all I can do is weigh 
the 
evidence put to me by various advocates, among whom the authors of the 
regular, produc

Re: Tivoli Storage Manager for z/OS (Functionally Stablized & Impending Demise)

[Petersen, Jim]

We run TSM for z/OS as well and have been told it will not be upgraded beyond 
the V5.5.5 that it currently is at.   If we want, we can run TSM for z/Linux.   
We are been trying it out and have gotten around the tape issue by writing the 
backups from z/Linux TSM to Data Domain using NFS Mounts to the Data Domain box.

___
Jim Petersen
MVS - Lead Systems Engineer
Home Depot Technology Center
1300 Park Center Drive, Austin, TX 78753
www.homedepot.com
email:jim_peter...@homedepot.com
512-977-2615 direct
512-977-2930 fax
210-859-9887 cell phone

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Norman Hollander
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 3:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Tivoli Storage Manager for z/OS (Functionally Stablized & 
Impending Demise)

I can't believe only 4 licenses for TSM. I'll check to see of there is 
something new coming out.

New guy on Tivoli team
--Original Message--
From: Edward Jaffe
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: Tivoli Storage Manager for z/OS (Functionally Stablized & 
Impending Demise)
Sent: Nov 6, 2010 5:41 AM

On 11/5/2010 5:38 AM, Jim Marshall wrote:
> Question - 1:
>
> "SO" I would like to know who are the other four people who had a similar idea
> about using TSM for z/OS, to be the data backup place in order to leverage all
> the good things z/OS has to offer.

I guess we're one of the other four. TSM for z/OS works great for us. It's
hooked into our mainframe-based "cron" facilities, uses large DASD EAVs, uses
the same tapes and drives that HSM uses--which get moved by RMM to the same
off-site locations, etc. I really don't want to try to come up with an alternate
PC and zFS file backup strategy...

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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nor...@desertwiz.biz
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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The information in this Internet Email is confidential and may be legally 
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Re: REDBOOKS Question

[John P. Baker]

Terry,

Sorry, but a lot of Redbooks DO HAVE dash numbers.

For example, please take a look at the series "ABCs of z/OS System
Programming", which includes -

SG24-6981-01
SG24-6982-02
SG24-6983-03
SG24-6985-01
SG24-6987-01
SG24-6989-04
SG24-6990-03

John P. Baker
Chief Software Architect
HFD Technologies

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Terry Draper
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 7:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: REDBOOKS Question

Redbooks once published are not updated. There are no dash numbers or TNLs.
A new Redbooks on the same or similar subject has a completely new number.
These are only done when a major change to the subject requires it and the
lab that develops the product wants a new Redbook.
Error should be trapped at the draft stage before publication. If not then
they will remain for the life of the Redbook.
I have been involved in several Redbooks. I always say the product manual is
the definitive source of information on the subject.

Terry Draper
zSeries Performance Consultant
w...@btopenworld.com
mobile:  +66 811431287 

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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[John McKown]

On Sun, 2010-11-07 at 12:17 +, Martin Packer wrote:
> Not to dismiss the sample at all but...
> 
> ... this really shows off the grottiness of Classic REXX as a language... 
> I have incantations just like these (and knowing enough of object-oriented 
> languages and Object REXX) I wonder why we haven't ported Open Object Rexx 
> to z/OS yet... Most of this example would be MUCH better if implemented in 
> Object REXX. For example alloc_member and alloc_dsname stems could be 
> attributes/properties/members of a single object. (And increment and 
> decrement operators wouldn't be a bad idea either - though in THIS case 
> some form of collection class would probably be better.)
> 
> Martin
> 
> Martin Packer,

I agree that Object REXX on z/OS, especially in the UNIX arena, would be
wonderful. Once again, I am frustrated by things beyond my control. I
would love to look at porting it. The source is available. What is not
available, to me, is a real C compiler. GCC is a real C compiler. But I
just can't get the GCCMVS to work for me. Guess I'm just stupid. I
failed compiler theory in college and it's still haunting me, 35 years
later.

Wish I could afford Dignus C & ASM or Tachyon Workbench (ASM only). I
just can't. 'Nuff said or I'd say too much.

-- 
John McKown
Maranatha! <><

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Re: REDBOOKS Question

[Terry Draper]

Redbooks once published are not updated. There are no dash numbers or TNLs.
A new Redbooks on the same or similar subject has a completely new number. 
These are only done when a major change to the subject requires it and the lab 
that develops the product wants a new Redbook.
Error should be trapped at the draft stage before publication. If not then they 
will remain for the life of the Redbook.
I have been involved in several Redbooks. I always say the product manual is 
the definitive source of information on the subject.

Terry Draper
zSeries Performance Consultant
w...@btopenworld.com
mobile:  +66 811431287

--- On Sun, 7/11/10, Ed Gould  wrote:


From: Ed Gould 
Subject: REDBOOKS Question
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 4:05


I have forgotten the answer to this question long ago and I am not coming up 
with any answer to my question to myself.I will pose it to the group and see if 
anyone on here knows the answer.I am trying to remember how IBM handles it if 
there is an error (or poorly written or whatever error) happens with REDBOOKS.
Are they quietly updated (and if so) is there a new dash number or is there a 
completely new number assigned  or how does IBM handle updates to any REDBOOKS? 
I know there are errors as long time ago (30+ years) I used to see them with 
TNL's (we all remember those right?) but I do not remember how IBM handles them 
currently. Anyone?




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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[Martin Packer]

Not to dismiss the sample at all but...

... this really shows off the grottiness of Classic REXX as a language... 
I have incantations just like these (and knowing enough of object-oriented 
languages and Object REXX) I wonder why we haven't ported Open Object Rexx 
to z/OS yet... Most of this example would be MUCH better if implemented in 
Object REXX. For example alloc_member and alloc_dsname stems could be 
attributes/properties/members of a single object. (And increment and 
decrement operators wouldn't be a bad idea either - though in THIS case 
some form of collection class would probably be better.)

Martin

Martin Packer,
Mainframe Performance Consultant, zChampion
Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM

+44-7802-245-584

email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com

Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker



From:
Bruce Hewson 
To:
IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date:
07/11/2010 11:27
Subject:
Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?
Sent by:
IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



I have found this form quite useful:-

alloc_member_cnt = alloc_member_cnt + 1 
alloc_member.alloc_member_cnt = my_member 
alloc_member.my_member = alloc_member_cnt 

additional information can be retained in the "array":-

alloc_dsname.alloc_member_cnt = my_dsn
alloc_dsname.my_dsn = alloc_member_cnt

allowing you multiple ways to process the data.

If Strip(alloc_member.new_member) <> "" Then Do
  Say "member" new_member "found at entry" alloc_member.new_member
End
Else Do
  alloc_member_cnt = alloc_member_cnt + 1 
  alloc_member.alloc_member_cnt = new_member 
  alloc_member.new_member = alloc_member_cnt 
End

Regards
Bruce Hewson

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741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU






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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[Bruce Hewson]

I have found this form quite useful:-

alloc_member_cnt = alloc_member_cnt + 1 
alloc_member.alloc_member_cnt = my_member   
alloc_member.my_member = alloc_member_cnt   

additional information can be retained in the "array":-

alloc_dsname.alloc_member_cnt = my_dsn
alloc_dsname.my_dsn = alloc_member_cnt

allowing you multiple ways to process the data.

If Strip(alloc_member.new_member) <> "" Then Do
  Say "member" new_member "found at entry" alloc_member.new_member
End
Else Do
  alloc_member_cnt = alloc_member_cnt + 1 
  alloc_member.alloc_member_cnt = new_member   
  alloc_member.new_member = alloc_member_cnt 
End

Regards
Bruce Hewson

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Re: zFS files at disaster recovery site

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <4cbc6ad7.5040...@bremultibank.com.pl>, on 10/18/2010
   at 05:42 PM, "R.S."  said:

>1. ADRDSSU does quiesce ZFS during dump.

Read the message again; the issue is whether it *always* does a
quiesce, not whether it sometimes does. In particular, the issue is
what it does for physical dumps.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

[Veilleux, Jon L]

I have been using interpret for this type of processing for a lot of years. 
Maybe it's just a bad habit, but it's always worked for me. I will have to 
experiment with some of the other suggestions. I certainly did not want to 
start a religious war.
Pax,
Jon

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Postpischil
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Rexx question - Dynamic generation of variables?

On 11/5/2010 2:24 PM, Veilleux, Jon L wrote:
> INTERPRET  TEST"='FRED'"
> INTERPRET 'SAY TEST'

At the risk of starting another flame war, I would strongly discourage use of 
INTERPRET. While it may work correctly in some instances, it leads to problems 
in general, and is easily replaced by "value()".

I first ran across this problem while working at an ISV, and had to maintain 
code designed to manipulate JCL. The author used an INTERPRET that 
self-destructed the first time it encountered a JCL comment.

Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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