Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Howard Brazee]

On 15 May 2007 14:35:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (McKown, John)
wrote:

>1) They'll deny it by creative accounting.
>   This happened at one place that I worked when the PC revolution
>was "new". The individual departments were responsible for their own PC
>workstations and software. Therefore the "saving" for the old 3270
>devices were accrued to the IT department, showing that using PCs was
>more cost effective than 3270s.

Accounting for IS is always a political issue.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Chris Mason]

Gary

It's been in the news lately that London is increasingly taking financial 
business from New York. Perhaps it's just as well.


Chris Mason

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: Another "migration" from the mainframe



SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.

http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1254860,00.html 


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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 05/15/2007
   at 01:30 PM, Howard Brazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>This works as long as we need at least as much heat as being produced
>- to reduce some of the energy waste from the computers. 

It also works if we need less.

>But we can't turn off the computer when the weather gets warm.

So? You need to provide for getting rid of the waste heat regardless.
If you use the waste heat in the winter, that doesn't cause additional
waste heat in the summer.

>The better solution is to use less energy to produce the desired
>product than the alternatives do.

That's like saying that water is better than air. Both are important.
Even when you have more efficient equipment, there will still be waste
heat, and utilizing some of the waste heat will still reduce your
energy costs.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Ed Gould]

Gary:

About 15 years ago I was ahead of a project to move off OEM to an NJE  
connection with them. I stepped them through the JES2 changes needed  
for the connection to happen. Saying that, I am surprised it hasn't  
happened sooner. The people I had exposure to then (and afterwards)  
was to say the least well clueless. The "systems" people I talked  
with were hopelessly new and inexperienced. I have since talked with  
several consultants that worked there and they just shook their head 
(s) and couldn't believe it was so screwed up.


Ed
On May 15, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Gary Green wrote:


SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.

http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/ 
0,289142,sid80_gci1254860,00.html


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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:25 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe
> 
> 
> -
> 
> >SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.
> >
> >http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,2891
42,sid80_gci1254860,00.html
>  
>
---
Wait'll they see what it REALLY costs!!!  HAR DE HAR HAR!!!


1) They'll deny it by creative accounting.
This happened at one place that I worked when the PC revolution
was "new". The individual departments were responsible for their own PC
workstations and software. Therefore the "saving" for the old 3270
devices were accrued to the IT department, showing that using PCs was
more cost effective than 3270s.

2) They won't say anything for fear of a lawsuit.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

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offense.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Dave Kopischke]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 16:04:50 -0400, Arthur T. wrote:

>  I recently tried twice to get information about a
>government agency's privacy provisions and was ignored.  On
>my third try, I suggested that local newspapers might be
>able to get the information for me, but would also likely
>be interested in why it's so hard to get.  I got an answer
>within a week.
>
>  With publicly held companies, you might suggest there
>would be interest in the follow-up both from their
>shareholders and from the news organs which printed the
>original press releases.
>

1) One person asking for a follow up is not indicative of wide spread interest 
in 
a story. An organized request campaign might get some action though. When 
my reminder goes off, I'll drop a note on the list and ask everyone to contact 
them for a follow up and see what happens.

2) It's really hard to get people to talk about their failures.

3) Assuming there was a failure and assuming you could find someone to 
report it, could you find a reputable media outlet that would publish it ??? 
Advertising dollars might speak louder than commitment to integrity.

Maybe it's time for blogs to take over factual reporting in industry ??? You 
might be able to get a few employees of these migration sites to talk 
anonymously about a project and maybe get a look beyond the smoke-and-
mirrors. But then again, who would you trust to keep your contribution 
confidential ???

The instigators don't want to talk about it. The people you trust to report it 
won't report it. The people involved are afraid to talk about it. And the 
people 
who want to learn from it can't get any usable information. This is a tough 
situation for eveyone.

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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Arthur T.]

On 15 May 2007 11:06:55 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
(Message-ID:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thompson, Steve) wrote:



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Behalf Of Dave Kopischke
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

On Tue, 15 May 2007 13:34:12 -0400, Gary Green wrote:

Do you really think we will get the real story/facts 
about the savings?


No, but if you don't ask, you can't complain about the FUD 
they're

generating with a story like this, can you 

I've already sent follow up requests on 3 or 4 of these 
kinds of stories
and got nothing. But I'm not giving up. All it takes is 5 
minutes and an

E-Mail account.


If you get no answer, perhaps it would be good to have a 
plan B, wherein
you provide the LACK of results to some analyst group so 
they can report
on the apparent failure of the initiative. It would be 
very interesting
to get a bit more light on these things so that publicly 
held companies

have to disclose results.


 I recently tried twice to get information about a 
government agency's privacy provisions and was ignored.  On 
my third try, I suggested that local newspapers might be 
able to get the information for me, but would also likely 
be interested in why it's so hard to get.  I got an answer 
within a week.


 With publicly held companies, you might suggest there 
would be interest in the follow-up both from their 
shareholders and from the news organs which printed the 
original press releases.



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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Howard Brazee]

On 15 May 2007 10:12:54 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Shannon)
wrote:

>> The idea of exchanging server heat for building heat is interesting
>>though.
>
>We did this at Aetna twenty five years ago. The heating system didn't
>come on until the outside temperature reached 32 F. Until then all the
>heat for the data center came from the processors.

This works as long as we need at least as much heat as being produced
- to reduce some of the energy waste from the computers.   But we
can't turn off the computer when the weather gets warm.

The better solution is to use less energy to produce the desired
product than the alternatives do.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Bill Wilkie]

I was ajust about to say, I had seen the computer room heat used to heat the 
building, but I couldn't remember the site.


Thanks
Bill



From: Bob Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 13:12:44 -0400

> The idea of exchanging server heat for building heat is interesting
>though.

We did this at Aetna twenty five years ago. The heating system didn't
come on until the outside temperature reached 32 F. Until then all the
heat for the data center came from the processors.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Thompson, Steve
> 
> [ snip ]
> 
> [Side note: my wife retired from a certain Electric Utility. 
> She has a full Masters (not just an MBA, but she has one of 
> those too). She has commented to me many times about how the 
> "fast trackers" in a company have about 3 years to show 
> results. No results, no further upward mobility [promotions]. 
> So she watched these fast trackers come in to a department 
> and re-organize, change to new procedures or whatever and 
> make lots of noise so that they had 2 or 3 completed projects 
> to show for their time. Mind you, they didn't have to have 
> positive results, just results.]

Sounds a lot like the "politicians' credo":  "Good press, bad press; it
doesn't matter, as long as you get press."

-jc-

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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Howard Brazee]

On 15 May 2007 11:06:55 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thompson,
Steve) wrote:

>[Side note: my wife retired from a certain Electric Utility. She has a
>full Masters (not just an MBA, but she has one of those too). She has
>commented to me many times about how the "fast trackers" in a company
>have about 3 years to show results. No results, no further upward
>mobility [promotions]. So she watched these fast trackers come in to a
>department and re-organize, change to new procedures or whatever and
>make lots of noise so that they had 2 or 3 completed projects to show
>for their time. Mind you, they didn't have to have positive results,
>just results.]

I guess life is like school.When I was in AFROTC a few decades
ago, the cadets had an organization like a USAF base.   Except there
wasn't much of a mission, at least not that the students had.   So
every term, when there were new student commanders, there was a
reorganization.   The requirement was to do *something*, and the skill
of reorganization is a useful one.   

In real life, sometimes the decision to do nothing is the best one -
but that decision doesn't get noticed.We notice our "great"
leaders because bad things happened on their watch that they had to
overcome.   We don't know who had policies that resulted in those bad
things not happening.

A CIO who decides that the current direction is just fine won't get
noticed.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Tom Schmidt]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 13:12:44 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote:

>> The idea of exchanging server heat for building heat is interesting
>>though.
>
>We did this at Aetna twenty five years ago. The heating system didn't
>come on until the outside temperature reached 32 F. Until then all the
>heat for the data center came from the processors.
 
 
At Comten in St. Paul, Minnesota, some 25+ years ago, we REMOVED the 
furnace completely and heated the entire headquarters building from the front-
end processors, two small mainframes and plethora of terminals (plus humans 
and lighting fixtures).  It didn't hurt that half of the building was partially 
underground via earthen berms.  
 
St. Paul gets a LOT colder than 32 F. but the building was always toasty.  
 
-- 
Tom Schmidt 
Madison, WI 
 

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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Thompson, Steve]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Kopischke
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

On Tue, 15 May 2007 13:34:12 -0400, Gary Green wrote:

>Do you really think we will get the real story/facts about the savings?
>

No, but if you don't ask, you can't complain about the FUD they're
generating with a story like this, can you 

I've already sent follow up requests on 3 or 4 of these kinds of stories
and got nothing. But I'm not giving up. All it takes is 5 minutes and an
E-Mail account.


If you get no answer, perhaps it would be good to have a plan B, wherein
you provide the LACK of results to some analyst group so they can report
on the apparent failure of the initiative. It would be very interesting
to get a bit more light on these things so that publicly held companies
have to disclose results.

[Side note: my wife retired from a certain Electric Utility. She has a
full Masters (not just an MBA, but she has one of those too). She has
commented to me many times about how the "fast trackers" in a company
have about 3 years to show results. No results, no further upward
mobility [promotions]. So she watched these fast trackers come in to a
department and re-organize, change to new procedures or whatever and
make lots of noise so that they had 2 or 3 completed projects to show
for their time. Mind you, they didn't have to have positive results,
just results.]

So perhaps somehow forcing a disclosure of these hit and run tactics
might get more of the analysts looking at the end results -- beyond the
current quarter (I will not hold my breath).

Regards,
Steve Thompson

-- STD disclaimers: My opinions, not necessarily those of my employer.
This is not legal advice any attempt to use it as such makes the whole
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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#18 Another "migration" from the mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#19 Another "migration" from the mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#22 Another "migration" from the mainframe

lots of old posts mentioning working on our ha/cmp product ... and/or
some loosely-coupled (dating back to at least when my wife had been con'ed
into going to POK to be in charge of loosely-coupled architecture)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

when she was in POK, in charge of loosely-coupled architecture, she
developed peer-coupled shared data architecture, which didn't see a lot
of uptake (except for ims-hotstandby) until parallel sysplex
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#shareddata


and a little followup of financial industry using blades/grids at the
high-end ... including enabling them to do "real-time" trading
algorithms ...  something that they haven't been able to do before

Lots of Blade Server articles
http://www.eweek.com/category2/0,1874,1658862,00.asp

IBM Grid Computing Solutions - financial industry
http://www-03.ibm.com/grid/solutions/by_industry/financial.shtml

from above:

Optimized Analytic Infrastructure
Drive higher margins and revenue growth by:

* Turning creative quantitative insight into tested, supported, tradable
  investment products

* Achieving near real-time and intraday decision making for on demand
  valuations and complex risk reporting in minutes

* Reducing costs and enhancing standardization of existing analytic
  infrastructures

... snip ... 

Grid Computing for Financial Services 2007
http://www.iqpc.com/cgi-bin/templates/genevent.html?topic=233&event=12603&;

from above:

"70% of firms now deploy enterprise grids in key business areas" to
maximise CPU power and business capability – but are you really driving
its development forward in your IT strategy?

... snip ... 

Grid computing: Accelerating the search for revenue and profit for financial 
markets
http://www-03.ibm.com/industries/financialservices/doc/content/landing/973028103.html

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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Dave Kopischke]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 13:34:12 -0400, Gary Green wrote:

>Do you really think we will get the real story/facts about the savings?
>

No, but if you don't ask, you can't complain about the FUD they're generating 
with a story like this, can you 

I've already sent follow up requests on 3 or 4 of these kinds of stories and 
got 
nothing. But I'm not giving up. All it takes is 5 minutes and an E-Mail account.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Mohammad Khan]

The vendor handling migration seems to be the new owner of UniKix which 
used to be owned by Sun a little while ago. Sun wasn't able to do much with 
this product, let's see how much success Clerity will have with it.
Mohammad

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Re: Another 'migration' from the mainframe

[Gary Green]

Do you really think we will get the real story/facts about the savings?


 On Tue May 15 12:31 , Dave Kopischke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:

>On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:17 -0400, Gary Green wrote:
>
>>SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.
>>
>>http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1
>254860,00.html
>>
>
>I saw a similar story a couple months ago concerning the start of this 
>project. 
>I see they are making progress. I made myself an appointment to follow up 
>with Mark Fontecchio, News Writer in 6 months for a follow up story on how 
>it's going and whether SIAC is realizing the savings they anticipated.
>
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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Dave Kopischke]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:17 -0400, Gary Green wrote:

>SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.
>
>http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1
254860,00.html
>

I saw a similar story a couple months ago concerning the start of this project. 
I see they are making progress. I made myself an appointment to follow up 
with Mark Fontecchio, News Writer in 6 months for a follow up story on how 
it's going and whether SIAC is realizing the savings they anticipated.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Bob Shannon]

> The idea of exchanging server heat for building heat is interesting
>though.

We did this at Aetna twenty five years ago. The heating system didn't
come on until the outside temperature reached 32 F. Until then all the
heat for the data center came from the processors.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Richards.Bob]

Chris,

I agree with your observations. However, "my" comments were directed
specifically at the NYSE/SIAC situation. Did 9/11 not teach them
anything? One would hope that the SEC, OCC, etc. have imposed upon them
some form of regulatory guidance as it relates to HA and business
continuity. If that is a valid assumption, then it can't be as valid a
business case as they are presenting. 


Bob Richards 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Craddock, Chris
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

And Bob Richards asked
> I wonder if they will reveal the costs of extra hw/sw for high-
> availability and business continuance associated with this migration. 
> Probably not.

Well that's a fine question. Here's what I think, based on just a little
bit of experience :0) with z customers... 

There are a small number of customers at the high end for whom the
System z and parallel sysplex is the only alternative. Those are the
customers who spend the time and effort to configure coupling
facilities, data sharing and all of the other dozens of failure
avoidance/failure mitigation features of the platform. Those (high-end)
customers are NOT migrating away from the platform, but even they are
being very judicious about new work that goes on the box(es). It has
become a pure cost containment exercise for most - see my last paragraph
below.

The rest of the customers, by-and-large, have not bought into the
parallel sysplex story and they still run their systems like its 1985.
The only reasonable conclusion you can draw is that their availability
requirements really aren't all that demanding. In effect, they don't
think its worth spending the extra money and resources to get true high
availability and disaster survivability. 

Now we could all argue over whether that's really wise, but the fact
remains that those customers have made a business judgement. And those
are the same customers who are, little by little, deserting the
platform. For customers with less demanding requirements, there are
plenty of alternatives and the fact that so many have switched and NOT
gone back ought to be sobering to this community.

On a slightly off-topic note, there is a large body of evidence that
MOST of the IT budget (75-85%!!) is consumed in just keeping the lights
on. There is almost nothing left over for either new development, or for
exploitation of feature function, even if that would ultimately save
money. That has become the dominant issue for most customers and
probably drives the behaviors we are all seeing. They may be nuts, but
they're not stupid :-) 
  
  
  
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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#18 Another "migration" from the mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#19 Another "migration" from the mainframe

as an aside ... all the vendors that support server farms at least in
the form of blade/GRID technology have done significant amounts of work
on energy and cooling efficiency.

in fact, cooling was one of major concerns working on ha/cmp scaleup
related to these old emails
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

small sample re blade/grid energy efficiency

CIO Challenge: Energy Efficiency
http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=192202377

from above:

Like Fidelity, Wachovia has been targeting energy efficiency initiatives
for the last 12 to 18 months or so. The initial spur was a move by the
firm's traders in January to a new building in New York. "The three
trading floors have relatively low ceiling heights, where it was not
possible to put in a lot of air distribution, which meant we had to
think creatively to ensure we don't have an unhealthy environment for
the traders,"

... snip ...

and:

IBM Unveils New Energy-Efficient Blades
http://www.hpcwire.com/hpc/1379801.html
IBM to focus on energy efficiency
http://www.bladewatch.com/2007/05/10/ibm-to-focus-on-energy-efficiency/
Blade innovations highlight energy efficiency opportunities
http://www.it-director.com/business/content.php?cid=9135
IBM defends blades' energy efficiency
http://green.itweek.co.uk/2006/10/ibm_defends_bla.html
IBM Data Center and Facilities Strategy Services - high density
computing data center readiness assessment
http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/index.wss/offering/its/a1025605#spotligt-data-center

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Craddock, Chris]

Howard Brazee said
> Craddock, Chris wrote:
> >On a slightly off-topic note, there is a large body of evidence that
> >MOST of the IT budget (75-85%!!) is consumed in just keeping the
lights
> >on. <<>>

> That leaves an opening for an effective way of IBM directing their R&D
> money.And of their marketing.Energy efficiency can be done by
> re-using computer room heat, or by not having as much computer room
> heat. Getting these results from a server farm can be much harder to
> accomplish.

When I said "keeping the lights on", I meant all of the day-to-day
operational costs associated with keeping the existing IT environment up
and running. Energy is just one of those costs, albeit a rapidly
increasing one. 

The idea of exchanging server heat for building heat is interesting
though.

CC

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Bob Shannon]

>That leaves an opening for an effective way of IBM directing their R&D
>money.And of their marketing.Energy efficiency can be done by
>re-using computer room heat, or by not having as much computer room
heat.

System z9 marketing has focused on energy efficiency for some time. This
is not new news.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Howard Brazee]

On 15 May 2007 09:05:08 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Craddock,
Chris) wrote:

>On a slightly off-topic note, there is a large body of evidence that
>MOST of the IT budget (75-85%!!) is consumed in just keeping the lights
>on. There is almost nothing left over for either new development, or for
>exploitation of feature function, even if that would ultimately save
>money. That has become the dominant issue for most customers and
>probably drives the behaviors we are all seeing. They may be nuts, but
>they're not stupid :-)

That leaves an opening for an effective way of IBM directing their R&D
money.And of their marketing.Energy efficiency can be done by
re-using computer room heat, or by not having as much computer room
heat.

Getting these results from a server farm can be much harder to
accomplish.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Rick Fochtman]

-


SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.

http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1254860,00.html
 


---
Wait'll they see what it REALLY costs!!!  HAR DE HAR HAR!!!

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Craddock, Chris]

Gary Green said
> SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.
> 
>
http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gc
> i1254860,00.html

And Bob Richards asked
> > I wonder if they will reveal the costs of extra hw/sw for
> high-availability and business continuance associated with this
> migration. Probably not.

Well that's a fine question. Here's what I think, based on just a little
bit of experience :0) with z customers... 

There are a small number of customers at the high end for whom the
System z and parallel sysplex is the only alternative. Those are the
customers who spend the time and effort to configure coupling
facilities, data sharing and all of the other dozens of failure
avoidance/failure mitigation features of the platform. Those (high-end)
customers are NOT migrating away from the platform, but even they are
being very judicious about new work that goes on the box(es). It has
become a pure cost containment exercise for most - see my last paragraph
below.

The rest of the customers, by-and-large, have not bought into the
parallel sysplex story and they still run their systems like its 1985.
The only reasonable conclusion you can draw is that their availability
requirements really aren't all that demanding. In effect, they don't
think its worth spending the extra money and resources to get true high
availability and disaster survivability. 

Now we could all argue over whether that's really wise, but the fact
remains that those customers have made a business judgement. And those
are the same customers who are, little by little, deserting the
platform. For customers with less demanding requirements, there are
plenty of alternatives and the fact that so many have switched and NOT
gone back ought to be sobering to this community.

On a slightly off-topic note, there is a large body of evidence that
MOST of the IT budget (75-85%!!) is consumed in just keeping the lights
on. There is almost nothing left over for either new development, or for
exploitation of feature function, even if that would ultimately save
money. That has become the dominant issue for most customers and
probably drives the behaviors we are all seeing. They may be nuts, but
they're not stupid :-)

CC

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Ed Finnell]

 
In a message dated 5/15/2007 10:33:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

has  commented that he doesn't believe any congressman in the last fifty
yrs has  been capable of middle-school arithmatic.



>>
Yeah, that's the ticket put 'em on 'Are you smarter than a Fifth grader'  and 
watch the ashes... 



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Howard Brazee) writes:
> I'd also like to see that with politics, but politician's pay is
> power, and that cannot be deferred.But it is more important for a
> President's policy to work for the long term than for a CEO's policy.
> Neither should be measured by "not on my term", but both should be
> measured by leaving a legacy that lasts.Build for the future -
> when the other guys are running the company/country.

i think that the comptroller general has suggested something similar for
legislation ... that metrics are defined associated for any claimed
benefits justifying some legislation ... and if the results fail to meet
the metrics ... poof, its gone.

however, in speeches that the comptroller general has given over the
past yr or so on some aspects of medicare/medicaid legislation ... he
has commented that he doesn't believe any congressman in the last fifty
yrs has been capable of middle-school arithmatic.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Howard Brazee]

On 15 May 2007 08:02:21 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Jacobs)
wrote:

>But the lack of these benefits on the cheaper environments usually bites 
>you in the a** sometime in the future. But by then the people making 
>these decisions have walked away with their bonuses and leave the 
>fallout to the peons to handle.

One big problem with our big businesses (those so big that the
individual stockholder doesn't have much control), is that bonuses are
typically given for current profits, not long term profits.   I'd like
to see stock options given every year to the CEO - cashable a decade
in the future.   I'd give the same bonuses to GMs of sports teams,
depending on team performance in the future.   Athletes have to wait
to join their Halls of Fame (except Vijay Singh).   We don't know how
good a company was run until we check the long run.

It may be cheaper to buy computers that won't fit 5 years from now -
when someone else is running the company.   

That would mean that gutting a company for current profits wouldn't
pay, but investing wisely would.

I'd also like to see that with politics, but politician's pay is
power, and that cannot be deferred.But it is more important for a
President's policy to work for the long term than for a CEO's policy.
Neither should be measured by "not on my term", but both should be
measured by leaving a legacy that lasts.Build for the future -
when the other guys are running the company/country.

That said, I don't know whether it might be better in the long term to
design around a powerful mainframe now - or to throw out my new system
before then and replace it with new technology and a new direction. I
don't see that IBM is trying to sell us on either direction, maybe
because it doesn't know either.

My bias is to value the system that matches my current skills.   I
*like* big iron.   But I need to disregard my bias and prepare for the
reality that will come.

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Dan Ternosky]

I would prefer that Dani get another babysitter.












Dan Ternosky
Systems Integrator - Mainframe Capacity Planner
IBM Global Services - The Hartford Account
Office Phone: 330-699-1630 IBM Tieline:  378-9633
Internet Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]





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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Mark Jacobs]

Richards.Bob wrote:

I wonder if they will reveal the costs of extra hw/sw for
high-availability and business continuance associated with this
migration. Probably not.


Bob Richards 

  
The intangible benefits  of the mainframe environment never seem to be 
factored into the pricing process. Its harder to add these benefits into 
a proper analysis of course than it is to totally ignore them and just 
look at the dollars.


But the lack of these benefits on the cheaper environments usually bites 
you in the a** sometime in the future. But by then the people making 
these decisions have walked away with their bonuses and leave the 
fallout to the peons to handle.


--
Mark Jacobs
Technical Services
Time Customer Service - Tampa, FL
--

I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, 
no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; 
if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I 
alone am morally responsible for everything I do.


Robert A. Heinlein - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966)

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richards.Bob) writes:
> I wonder if they will reveal the costs of extra hw/sw for
> high-availability and business continuance associated with this
> migration. Probably not.

when we were doing the ha/cmp product, they were one of the customers we
called on
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

also, I had been asked to write a section in the corporate continuous
availability strategy document. most of my writing got pulled because
both Rochester and POK complained (that at the time, they couldn't meet
what we were doing in ha/cmp).

it was also in this period that we coined the terms "disaster
survivability" and "geographic survivability" (to differentiate from
disaster/recovery)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#available

for other drift, old email about what we had been doing
about ha/cmp scaleup
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

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Re: Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Richards.Bob]

I wonder if they will reveal the costs of extra hw/sw for
high-availability and business continuance associated with this
migration. Probably not.


Bob Richards 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gary Green
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Another "migration" from the mainframe

SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.

http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gc
i1254860,00.html 
  
  
  
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Another "migration" from the mainframe

[Gary Green]

SIAC is migrating 1600 MIPS from the mainframe to save money.

http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1254860,00.html

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