Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
In blu149-w9b380f9fbe75912eb551ea1...@phx.gbl, on 03/25/2010 at 12:10 PM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com said: IMO, the ideal compromise is to use tools like IPT (from IBM) and SimpList (from MacKinney). Partially, but that still doesn't address issues like cut and paste. I see a real need for a facility that allows for both block and stream cp, even if the 3270 simulator in use doesn't support it. In fact, the main problem that I see with WSA is in that area. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Charles Mills wrote: I think Chris has hit the nail on the head with regard to the viability of this idea as a product of some sort. (As a personal project -- that's a different matter.) Most mainframers (however that term might be defined) are familiar with TSO and ISPF. There would be a learning curve to use this new product. We tend to be an old and somewhat rigid bunch, resistant to change. Further, some are (as someone else hinted) outright hostile to anything running on a small box. Unless it enabled its user to do absolutely everything that one needed to do and could do in ISPF/TSO, it does not really work as a way of avoiding teaching newbies to use ISPF/TSO, because one would still have to use ISPF/TSO to do that one function. Charles A day or so ago, I mentioned that the latest version of Jol was available. As Jol developed over the years, there was a need to input data (say Symbolic Parameter data, or data in a Form) and so the Panel Instruction was developed. Then, some years ago, it seemed that Menubars and Pulldowns would be an excellent thing to add, and so they were. By following this link, you can see the Jol primary input screen for 3270's. An almost identical screen or Panel is available on Windows and Linux. There are obviously some differences between the Z/OS and the Windows and Linux versions - they don't have Catalogs, and hence there is no facility to do that in Jol. However, many of the functions are transferable, and have been. For example, deleting data sets or files. Or showing a list of Data Sets, and selecting one so that some action can be done with it. You can see my concept of what I think (!) is a useful 3270 screen here (and it is available now): http://members.iinet.com.au/~clementclarke/scrn01.gif Suggestions are welcomed, and the menus etc can be easily changed as they are all in Jol high level language format. Clement Clarke -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of clementcla...@ozemail.com.au Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 4:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? Charles Mills wrote: I think Chris has hit the nail on the head with regard to the viability of this idea as a product of some sort. (As a personal project -- that's a different matter.) Most mainframers (however that term might be defined) are familiar with TSO and ISPF. There would be a learning curve to use this new product. Some; but not much, if designed properly. I think we mainframers understand how to use a well designed GUI and, in fact, have had to tech ourselves how to use more than our share of poorly designed GUI's. ;-) I think that one major issue, however, is the sheer enormity of the project we speak of. I agree that a new z/OS user interface is a waste if it ends up leaving ISPF hanging around for whatever function that was not or could not have been included. I also think that a new user interface for z/OS is absolutely needed if z/OS is really going to take root with the kids who IBM is trying desperately to convert via their Academic Initiative (which I fully support, btw). There will, obviously, be some overlap but it needs to be kept to a minimum. Bring it on, IBM. All the best, Scott T. Harder Mainframe Services, Inc. Naples, FL snippage -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
I've recently returned from vacation and missed much of this thread, so I apologize if I'm about to bring up a point that's already been discussed. However, I have to respond to the email below that contains the following statement: I agree that a new z/OS user interface is a waste if it ends up leaving ISPF hanging around for whatever function that was not or could not have been included. I also think that a new user interface for z/OS is absolutely needed if z/OS is really going to take root with the kids who IBM is trying desperately to convert. I agree with this statement completely. IMO one of the big drawbacks of moving development from the mainframe to PC is that it almost always leaves tools or processes that still require people to logon to the mainframe. This can offset many of the advantages of moving to the PC and lead to more complex development and testing environments. Not to mention the massive cost of acquiring and maintaining distributed desktop tools and training people how to use them. OTOH, continuing to use the regular ISPF interface isn't much of an option either. Productivity is the key to success and the only way to increase the standard of living. Asking the point-and-shoot generation to navigate command driven ISPF panels is like throwing money out the window, and does nothing to promote the mainframe or attract new talent. IMO, the ideal compromise is to use tools like IPT (from IBM) and SimpList (from MacKinney). Full disclosure, I'm one of the SimpList developers. These tools run on the mainframe, which means there's no need to keep switching back and forth between the mainframe and PC. Anyone who knows how to use ISPF option 3.4 can use IPT and SimpList with no training required, and there's no cost of licensing and maintaining distributed tools. IPT and SimpList run on the mainframe and therefore have character based interfaces. However, they employ the same concepts as PC/workstation tools. For example, data sets and DB2 tables and PC/workstation files (etc) can all be 'bookmarked' in lists of favorites and clicked to select. The appropriate tool or vendor product opens automatically, with no need to navigate between different panels and vendor products. Data set names appearing anywhere on any panel can be clicked to open, just like clicking hyperlinks on web pages. Mainframe files can be browsed/edited/printed (etc) on a PC/workstation, and PC/workstation files can be browsed/edited/printed (etc) on a mainframe. The list of features goes on and on, and the productivity advantages of using these tools is HUGE. I know I have a biased opinion, but I can't help but feel that any company that hasn't evaluated these tools is doing themselves a great disservice. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:12:37 -0400 From: scott.har...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of clementcla...@ozemail.com.au Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 4:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? Charles Mills wrote: I think Chris has hit the nail on the head with regard to the viability of this idea as a product of some sort. (As a personal project -- that's a different matter.) Most mainframers (however that term might be defined) are familiar with TSO and ISPF. There would be a learning curve to use this new product. Some; but not much, if designed properly. I think we mainframers understand how to use a well designed GUI and, in fact, have had to tech ourselves how to use more than our share of poorly designed GUI's. ;-) I think that one major issue, however, is the sheer enormity of the project we speak of. I agree that a new z/OS user interface is a waste if it ends up leaving ISPF hanging around for whatever function that was not or could not have been included. I also think that a new user interface for z/OS is absolutely needed if z/OS is really going to take root with the kids who IBM is trying desperately to convert via their Academic Initiative (which I fully support, btw). There will, obviously, be some overlap but it needs to be kept to a minimum. Bring it on, IBM. All the best, Scott T. Harder Mainframe Services, Inc. Naples, FL snippage -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Check your
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea005c021b...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 03/19/2010 at 09:54 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: So I've been considering how I might do more z/OS related work on my Linux desktop. IMHO there are only two reasonable approaches. I don't believe that we should reinvent the wheel. The first approach requires cooperation from IBM. Port the ISPF WSA to run on Linux, extend the UI a bit to allow block and stream cut-and-paste and enhance the ISPF workstation integration to allow remote directories and files wherever ISPF currently allows z/OS Unix files. The second approach is to port one of the open source desktops, e.g., KDE4, to z/OS and either add some integration facilities or rely on NFS. Source code is available for Gnome, GTK+, KDE4 and QT4, among others. In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea005c021b...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 03/19/2010 at 01:06 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: I agree that GUIs can be far more productive. They can also be far less productive. IMHO what matters most is the quality of the UI, not its orientation. If the GUI has a wonky menu structure or lacks good scripting facilities, it will definitely be harder to use than a good CLI. OTOH, I'd love to see something like WPS and DSOM as the basis for a Z/OS desktop. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
In 1690246679-1269022366-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-6745864...@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry, on 03/19/2010 at 06:13 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca said: Martin, you have what I consider a bad habit. PKB. With all the postings on IBM-Main it is difficult to understand the context of replies with no snippet from the post you are replying to. It's also difficult with no attribution line. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
In 4ba347f3.8ee2.003...@edfund.org, on 03/19/2010 at 09:46 AM, Natarajan Mohan nmo...@edfund.org said: All we need is a full fledged desktop for z/OS like Gnome or KDE which then we can export over a SSH session to any Xclient. I might believe X server. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea005c021b...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 03/19/2010 at 09:54 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: So I've been considering how I might do more z/OS related work on my Linux desktop. IMHO there are only two reasonable approaches. I don't believe that we should reinvent the wheel. I agree, but what if there is no wheel already available for my new car? The first approach requires cooperation from IBM. Port the ISPF WSA to run on Linux, extend the UI a bit to allow block and stream cut-and-paste and enhance the ISPF workstation integration to allow remote directories and files wherever ISPF currently allows z/OS Unix files. You talk IBM into it and I'll heap praises on your head. But I'm not going to hold my breath. And I don't want to wait. The second approach is to port one of the open source desktops, e.g., KDE4, to z/OS and either add some integration facilities or rely on NFS. Source code is available for Gnome, GTK+, KDE4 and QT4, among others. Not at all what I want. I want the processing moved OFF of z/OS as much as possible. Running a desktop on my Linux system is, essentially, free. Running one on z/OS is way too expensive! I don't want to run applications on z/OS. I want z/OS to be my data repository and batch processing back end. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
John, Please do have a look at the Remote Resources Access API in the Rational Developer for System z documentation. Here's a direct link: http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/ratdevz/v7r6/topic/com.ibm.ftt.api.resource.doc/topics/rra_api_intro.html - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Architect for New, Advanced, and/or Innovative Solutions (VCT) Based in Singapore Serving the Growth Markets E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
This is just something that I've been batting around in my head. I doubt that I'll ever actually do anything with it due to lack of time. But I really like my Linux desktop. And I no longer have a great love for TSO. So I've been considering how I might do more z/OS related work on my Linux desktop. And do it easily from a command prompt. I'm a command prompt type person in many ways. So I was thinking of writing a server type program on z/OS which can do many things (yet to be decided). This server would be akin to the ftp server, or actually more like the telnetd server. That is, it would communicate to the desktop via TCPIP and it would be started on z/OS via inetd (unlike the ftp server). The first Linux command would be something like zlogin z/OS_system userid password. z/OS_system would be the DNS name or IP of the z/OS system. userid would be the user's z/OS userid and password would be the password. The zlogin command would fork() and daemonize itself so that the parent would exit (freeing up the terminal) whereas the child would daemonize itself. The other commands in this package would talk to the child. The child would do an IP connection to the z/OS system's inetd server. inetd would start (fork()) the server which would ask the Linux child for the given userid and password in order to logon to the z/OS system. This would make the server assume the z/OS and UNIX identity of the user, like ftp and telnet do. All the other commands would talk to the child, telling it to do something (exactly what is yet to be completely determined). My idea is to be able to do z/OS work from the Linux command line. Some example commands would be zcp to copy (ftp-like) data to/from a z/OS legacy dataset or UNIX file to a local file, similar to what scp does. Eg: zcp -s local.file //'HLQ.SEQ.FILE' would send (-s) local.file to z/OS dataset 'HLQ.SEQ.FILE' or the other way: zcp -r //'HLQ.SEQ.FILE' local.file . zsubmit myjob.jcl would send the contents of myjob.jcl to the z/OS server which would write them to an INTRDR and thus submit the job. zsubmit would also have some sort of option to submit JCL which already resides on the z/OS system as well. zjobls would give output similar to doing an ls command in ftp when you have done a QUOTE SITE FILETYPE=JES. zgetjob would download SYSOUT from z/OS, similar to an ftp get with QUOTE SITE FILETYPE=JES active. zpurgejob would purge a job. That is cancel it and purge its output if it is running. Purge it if it is in the input queue, hold, or output queue. I.e. do a $PJ on it. zcanjob would cancel a running job or one on the input queue. I.e. do a $CJ on it. zlogoff would cause the z/OS task to terminate along with the Linux daemonized child. Other z commands might do other things, as I think of stuff I want to do. Now, the way that I planned this was the zlogin creates the daemon child which is what actually talks to the z/OS system. This allows every every shell for a given user to issue z commands once a single zlogin has been done. They do this by talking to the child using UNIX Message Queues. Of course, the problem with this is that the z commands all go to a single z/OS system. I don't plan on a way to have connectivity to multiple z/OS systems concurrently. The plus is that it makes it easy to talk to the child so a program could to so. Or I could create an API so that developers could avoid the overhead of fork()'ing a z command. Well, I just wanted to blue sky with everybody. Feel free to ignore this. Or tell me that I'm an id10t (like I don't already know). Or even implement it yourself and sell it as a product. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Oh, I forgot to mention that this would likely be used in conjunction with NFS so that the Linux desktop could directly access z/OS files, instead of using zcp to do a lot of copying. And perhaps a ztodsn and zfromdsn, modelled on Dovetailed Technologies' todsn and fromdsn, might be superior to zcp. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
It must be Friday. Bob Shannon -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? It must be Friday. Bob Shannon It's __that__ crazy an idea? It's difficult for me to tell. I'm about 6 sigmas from any norm. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
John, No, I don't think it's that crazy of an idea. Slightly abnormal, but not crazy. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? It must be Friday. Bob Shannon It's __that__ crazy an idea? It's difficult for me to tell. I'm about 6 sigmas from any norm. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
John, To me its an interesting idea. As you know, you can already do this from your Linux desktop: fromdsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file todsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file But each of these starts a new ssh session, which can take a bit of time to set up, so the idea of having a daemon on the client is kind of interesting. I think that what you propose would not be that difficult if you were to write a client daemon that talked to Co:Z SFTP. We already have the file transfer stuff, and have started to add the JES interface stuff (to be completed this summer we hope).If it were me, I would write the client daemon in Java and use the free jsch ssh/sftp client library. This way, you don't have to write anything on z/OS and it would be totally secure (and portable). Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:03 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Oh, I forgot to mention that this would likely be used in conjunction with NFS so that the Linux desktop could directly access z/OS files, instead of using zcp to do a lot of copying. And perhaps a ztodsn and zfromdsn, modelled on Dovetailed Technologies' todsn and fromdsn, might be superior to zcp. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 11:41 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: It's __that__ crazy an idea? It's difficult for me to tell. I'm about 6 sigmas from any norm. Right, always a good perspective to have. A friend and I often remind each other that we may not be typical. Is it that crazy? Not 20 years ago. Today? How many z/OS folks are comfortable with Linux command line operation? I am, you are -- everyone else, feel free to chime in crickets OK, or maybe not crickets. Let me ask the question: aside from the SMOP, who would find this interesting? The related question is always: If this is such a great idea, why hasn't it been done? That should never be taken as a reason to squash innovation, but especially with reasonably mature technologies like z/OS and commandline (Linux, UNIX, DOS...), it's always worth asking. I suspect part of the problem is that it's a very small market -- even if every z/OS shop wanted it, how many seats would they want, and how much could you charge for them? $1000 per shop would be a total market of like $3M, which is not a lot. And I don't see how you'd get that much out of most z/OS shops -- they have something that works, why would they spend money to fix what ain't broken? Kirk Wolf and the Dovetail folks are the obvious folks to do something like this. Or do it as freeware, get famous... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
I use Apache webserver with PHP scripts to automate a lot of stuff - basically FTPing - on z/OS. Might be an attractive approach. (But command line via that is harder.) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, Mainframe Performance Consultant, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:58:04 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote: To me its an interesting idea. As you know, you can already do this from your Linux desktop: fromdsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file todsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file Am I missing a command name on the z/OS side, or are fromdsn and todsn Linux commands? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kirk Wolf Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? John, To me its an interesting idea. As you know, you can already do this from your Linux desktop: fromdsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file todsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file But each of these starts a new ssh session, which can take a bit of time to set up, so the idea of having a daemon on the client is kind of interesting. I think that what you propose would not be that difficult if you were to write a client daemon that talked to Co:Z SFTP. We already have the file transfer stuff, and have started to add the JES interface stuff (to be completed this summer we hope).If it were me, I would write the client daemon in Java and use the free jsch ssh/sftp client library. This way, you don't have to write anything on z/OS and it would be totally secure (and portable). Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com Hum, thanks for the information. That would be easier. I was trying to avoid the setup / teardown that goes on with SSH. Some of the even wilder things that I was thinking might be able to go through this would be things like an SDSF display session (using the REXX api to send commands and get information back to the z/OS daemon). Running some TSO commands (the ones that work in a UNIX address tso REXX environment). Running z/OS UNIX commands, including scripts. Of course, for the file stuff, I could also look at the FUSE sshfs in Linux. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 11:41 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: It's __that__ crazy an idea? It's difficult for me to tell. I'm about 6 sigmas from any norm. Right, always a good perspective to have. A friend and I often remind each other that we may not be typical. snip Or do it as freeware, get famous... If __I__ were to do this, I would put it on the CBT for anyone else who wants it. I've got one thing there already, but it likely isn't too interesting to others. It puts IRRDBU00 output into a PostgreSQL database on Linux. Because we don't have DB2 and aren't likely to get it. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 11:12 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:58:04 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote: To me its an interesting idea. As you know, you can already do this from your Linux desktop: fromdsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file todsn -ssh m...@zos //ZOS.DATASET local.file Am I missing a command name on the z/OS side, or are fromdsn and todsn Linux commands? -- gil There are Linux (and Windows) versions of those commands in addition to the z/OS version. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
All we need is a full fledged desktop for z/OS like Gnome or KDE which then we can export over a SSH session to any Xclient. If that desktop environment is there then all your ideas is possible. Natarajan On 3/19/2010 at 8:41 AM, in message a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea005c021b...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? It must be Friday. Bob Shannon It's __that__ crazy an idea? It's difficult for me to tell. I'm about 6 sigmas from any norm. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY The information contained in this communication, including but not limited to any accompanying document(s) and/or attachment(s), is privileged and confidential and is intended solely for the above-named individual(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that any distribution, copying, disclosure, and/or use of the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you received this communication in error, please destroy all copies of the communication, whether in electronic or hard copy format, and immediately contact the Security Office at EdFund at (916) 526-7539 or securityoff...@edfund.org. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Natarajan Mohan nmo...@edfund.org wrote: All we need is a full fledged desktop for z/OS like Gnome or KDE which then we can export over a SSH session to any Xclient. If that desktop environment is there then all your ideas is possible. BMC built one eight years ago (System Explorer for z/OS) and the response was underwhelming. The target audience was people new to the platform and it was supposed to be priced per seat but it ended up being tier priced like everything else which certainly took a lot of the potential appeal away. Arguably they didn't make any real effort to sell it, but frankly a lot of TSO/ISPF folks were pretty hostile to the idea of a GUI that did pretty much everything you can do in ISPF and SDSF. Whether that would still be true today is open to debate. My guess is that old attitudes die hard. -- This email might be from the artist formerly known as CC (or not) You be the judge. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Natarajan Mohan Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 11:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? All we need is a full fledged desktop for z/OS like Gnome or KDE which then we can export over a SSH session to any Xclient. If that desktop environment is there then all your ideas is possible. Natarajan True and interesting. But I don't want to run a z/OS UNIX session. It costs too much in terms of CPU. That's one of my considerations. Trying to make it easier to use my Linux system to do some things, such as grep, vi, and others instead of doing a telnet into a z/OS UNIX shell. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Craddock Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 11:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? snip BMC built one eight years ago (System Explorer for z/OS) and the response was underwhelming. The target audience was people new to the platform and it was supposed to be priced per seat but it ended up being tier priced like everything else which certainly took a lot of the potential appeal away. Arguably they didn't make any real effort to sell it, but frankly a lot of TSO/ISPF folks were pretty hostile to the idea of a GUI that did pretty much everything you can do in ISPF and SDSF. Whether that would still be true today is open to debate. My guess is that old attitudes die hard. Perhaps I should have mentioned that my initial desire for this was to be able to do things on my Linux desktop which affect z/OS, but easily. This is to reduce CPU consumption, which could reduce our software bill by reducing our required MSUs. But I understand that most people will change only at gun point. I am the only one in Tech Services who has any idea how to do anything using z/OS UNIX. The others think it is a passing fancy or unnecessary for my job. One actually dislikes it because it looks a bit like Windows, but doesn't act like Windows, and so it is confusing. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Oldie but Goldie, maybe this could be a good start point: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/systems/library/es-zosbatchjavav/index.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Luis Andrade Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 12:17 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? Oldie but Goldie, maybe this could be a good start point: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/systems/library/es-zosbatchj avav/index.html Interesting, thanks. I hadn't planned on using Java due to CPU usage. We don't have a zAAP or zIIP and we aren't likely to get one either. They cost money. And we can't use them for our current, COBOL, workload. The z/OS side would likely be 100% pure HLASM. Doing SYSOUT stuff would likely be done via SAPI. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
I think Chris has hit the nail on the head with regard to the viability of this idea as a product of some sort. (As a personal project -- that's a different matter.) Most mainframers (however that term might be defined) are familiar with TSO and ISPF. There would be a learning curve to use this new product. We tend to be an old and somewhat rigid bunch, resistant to change. Further, some are (as someone else hinted) outright hostile to anything running on a small box. Unless it enabled its user to do absolutely everything that one needed to do and could do in ISPF/TSO, it does not really work as a way of avoiding teaching newbies to use ISPF/TSO, because one would still have to use ISPF/TSO to do that one function. Further, of course, one person's perfect UI is another person's terrible UI. The OP likes command line interfaces. I happen to like GUIs. If I were to design the ideal ISPF replacement for me, it would have drag-and-drop and right-click context menus. My point is not that GUIs are the better answer; my point is that one man's meat is another man's poison -- which limits the market for this product (or, equally, a GUI ISPF replacement product). Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Craddock Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 9:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? BMC built one eight years ago (System Explorer for z/OS) and the response was underwhelming. The target audience was people new to the platform and it was supposed to be priced per seat but it ended up being tier priced like everything else which certainly took a lot of the potential appeal away. Arguably they didn't make any real effort to sell it, but frankly a lot of TSO/ISPF folks were pretty hostile to the idea of a GUI that did pretty much everything you can do in ISPF and SDSF. Whether that would still be true today is open to debate. My guess is that old attitudes die hard. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Apache and PHP are free and not very consumptive. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, Mainframe Performance Consultant, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 12:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? I think Chris has hit the nail on the head with regard to the viability of this idea as a product of some sort. (As a personal project -- that's a different matter.) In my original post, I only said that a vendor could feel free to implement something similar, if they wanted to. I didn't mean to imply that I was going to try to sell it. Most mainframers (however that term might be defined) are familiar with TSO and ISPF. There would be a learning curve to use this new product. We tend to be an old and somewhat rigid bunch, resistant to change. Further, some are (as someone else hinted) outright hostile to anything running on a small box. Yet, most of us have that small box to talk to the z. How many coax attached 3270s exist in service any more? Unless it enabled its user to do absolutely everything that one needed to do and could do in ISPF/TSO, it does not really work as a way of avoiding teaching newbies to use ISPF/TSO, because one would still have to use ISPF/TSO to do that one function. True. The main problem for my solution is that it would not allow vendors' ISPF applications to work. So ISPF would still be needed. Can't imagine not using ISPF for something like HCD. Further, of course, one person's perfect UI is another person's terrible UI. The OP likes command line interfaces. I happen to like GUIs. If I were to design the ideal ISPF replacement for me, it would have drag-and-drop and right-click context menus. My point is not that GUIs are the better answer; my point is that one man's meat is another man's poison -- which limits the market for this product (or, equally, a GUI ISPF replacement product). I agree that GUIs can be far more productive. I start with the CLI version because its easier to program. But if I do get a CLI going, and make an associated API, then it would be easy to integrate into some sort of GUI. But that wouldn't satisfy everybody. Look at the KDE vs. Gnome vs. Xcfe wars on Linux. Or vi vs. emacs, the equivalent of the 100 years war with editors. Charles -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Apache and PHP are free and not very consumptive. Martin, you have what I consider a bad habit. With all the postings on IBM-Main it is difficult to understand the context of replies with no snippet from the post you are replying to. You are, in my estimation, a very intelligent and valued contributor, but I find myself guessing what you are talking about most of the time. And, I have been following this thread, but I have no idea what the above response from you is addressing. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
How many coax attached 3270s exist in service any more? You'd be surprised. I used to work for a company that had offices in 34 countries. The main reason we couldn't convert to TCP/IP was because of the amount of green screen. New people were getting PC's, but the older ones still had 3270's (or Memorex, or ...). We were working on replacement, but that was expensive. And, it wasn't for TCP/IP; it was because the 3174's were dying ugly and horrible deaths. We were canabalising old ones to repair failing ones. As an aside, we were timing people out on our bread and butter CICS application (order entry), but since it was C/SuperSession, I got them to introduce a 15-minute screen lock out, and stopped forcing them off. Productivity improved, along with resource usage due to fewer people logging back on. It's been a few years since I left that organisation, but they still have a few loads of 3270's in use, according to contacts I still have. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Not often but sorry for when I do. John mentioned the CPU cost of java. I was just pointing out running a private Apache instance with PHP didn't prove to be computationally expensive. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, Mainframe Performance Consultant, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 19/03/2010 18:13:17: From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 19/03/2010 18:12 Subject: Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project? Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Apache and PHP are free and not very consumptive. Martin, you have what I consider a bad habit. With all the postings on IBM-Main it is difficult to understand the context of replies with no snippet from the post you are replying to. You are, in my estimation, a very intelligent and valued contributor, but I find myself guessing what you are talking about most of the time. And, I have been following this thread, but I have no idea what the above response from you is addressing. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Crazy idea for a desktop integration with z/OS project?
Martin, I understood your posting.. Some of us do not need a manual, to be able to understand So, you can not apologize or change your ways for every Dick, Tom and Harry... I think Note: I only posted this because it's Friday. I am amazed at all the trash some people post to this list, all the time. Anton On 3/19/2010 12:29 PM, Martin Packer wrote: Not often but sorry for when I do. John mentioned the CPU cost of java. I was just pointing out running a private Apache instance with PHP didn't prove to be computationally expensive. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, Mainframe Performance Consultant, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker IBM Mainframe Discussion ListIBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 19/03/2010 18:13:17: -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
