Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-05 Thread Rick Fochtman

Joe jeffries wrote:

Bearing in mind that XRC was intended for eXtended Remote Copy, what would 
be the point of NOT having a datamover at the remote site?
 


--
Possibly the cost of maintaining a processor to drive it, witht eh 
attendant infrastructure costs. YMMV


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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-05 Thread Richards.Bob
Good question! I suppose XRC could be used solely as an offsite vaulting
mechanism. 

In a cold site setup, it could save NALC operating system software
dollars, but those charges aren't significant enough (to me) to
recommend an XRC push. John's scenario gives a good reason for a push,
but that, hopefully, is not an ongoing situation. :-) 

Most scenarios discussed thus far relate to DR considerations where
existing CEC(s) are available. Push? Just say NO!

Bob Richards (GDPS/XRC user)


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe jeffries
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 9:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

Bearing in mind that XRC was intended for eXtended Remote Copy, what
would 
be the point of NOT having a datamover at the remote site?

JJ
XRC user 
  
  
  
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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-05 Thread Joe jeffries
Bearing in mind that XRC was intended for eXtended Remote Copy, what would 
be the point of NOT having a datamover at the remote site?

JJ
XRC user

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread R.S.

Hal Merritt wrote:

I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with the collective wisdom of
the group :-)

The most technically correct answer to your questions is: it depends. 


We used to do the controller to controller method (IBM's PPRC), but have
recently implemented IBM's XRC.  XRC requires a live operating system
running at the remote site to manage the replication.


Just to complement: XRC requires datamover. It need not be neither 
remote, nor separate system.


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Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Hal Merritt
Sorry. Please correct my last sentence to read:

"Our implementation of XRC requires a live operating system running at
the remote site to manage the replication." 
   
My attempt at brevity was a bit too aggressive :-) 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

--

>I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with the collective wisdom of
the group :-)
>
>The most technically correct answer to your questions is: it depends. 
>
>We used to do the controller to controller method (IBM's PPRC), but
have recently implemented IBM's XRC.  XRC requires a live operating
system running at the remote site to manage the replication.
>  
>
---
Not true; XRC can be "driven" from either end. We evaluated both 
possibilities and found that having the DataMover at the remote site was

more cost-effective than running it locally, thanks to services provided

at the remote site by our DR provider.

 
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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Tom Moulder
What he said is true.  It does depend upon the choices taken.

Tom Moulder

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rick Fochtman
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

--

>I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with the collective wisdom of the
group :-)
>
>The most technically correct answer to your questions is: it depends. 
>
>We used to do the controller to controller method (IBM's PPRC), but have
recently implemented IBM's XRC.  XRC requires a live operating system
running at the remote site to manage the replication.
>  
>
---
Not true; XRC can be "driven" from either end. We evaluated both 
possibilities and found that having the DataMover at the remote site was 
more cost-effective than running it locally, thanks to services provided 
at the remote site by our DR provider.

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Rick Fochtman

--


I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with the collective wisdom of the group 
:-)

The most technically correct answer to your questions is: it depends. 


We used to do the controller to controller method (IBM's PPRC), but have 
recently implemented IBM's XRC.  XRC requires a live operating system running 
at the remote site to manage the replication.
 


---
Not true; XRC can be "driven" from either end. We evaluated both 
possibilities and found that having the DataMover at the remote site was 
more cost-effective than running it locally, thanks to services provided 
at the remote site by our DR provider.


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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Hal Merritt
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with the collective wisdom of the group 
:-)

The most technically correct answer to your questions is: it depends. 

We used to do the controller to controller method (IBM's PPRC), but have 
recently implemented IBM's XRC.  XRC requires a live operating system running 
at the remote site to manage the replication.

 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Mautalen Juan Guillermo
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

Hi,

Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system programmer
(just a RACF administrator).

When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
z/OS system active?
Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both DASD
controllers?

Thanks for your help,



Juan Mautalen

 
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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Tom Moulder
Jeffrey brings up a good point to remember when involved with remote
mirroring of data.

There are some errors that occur, perhaps especially because of program
errors, where you simply do not know that the data is bad until well after
the time for asynchronous mirroring to have completed.  In this case, you
have two copies of the bad data.  There is a value to have point in time
copies that are taken before major updates take place in the application
data that can be used as recovery points should you encounter program
problems that result in corrupted data.  Also, these situations can be
handled with Log analysis software through surgical repair of the data as
opposed to normal recovery processes.

Tom Moulder

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Deaver
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

>When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
>data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
>z/OS system active?

No.  We (async) mirror between two STK V2X4f arrays and there is no host
attached at the hot site until we want to use the data there (either for a
test or a DR situation)


>and until you issue commands that stop the
>mirroring (depending on how implemented), the remote site can't have
>anything but read access to the data, if at all.

Actually, because we use remote snapshot on our remote disk, we can
continue with production async mirror process and IPL to a copy of the data
on the remote disk with the hot site's MF hardware.  We do this every time
we have a DR exercise.

We have three copies of the data on the remote disk...
1) The staging copy where the async mirror data is written
2) Copy 1 which is remote snapped every other day
3) Copy 2 which is remote snapped every other day opposite copy 1

So for a DR test we might plan on IPLing Copy1, knowing that the async data
will continue to be written to the staging area, and then to Copy 2 for the
daily 'synchpoint'.


Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer
Systems Engineering
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
651-665-4231(v)
651-610-7670(p)

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Jeffrey Deaver
>When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
>data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
>z/OS system active?

No.  We (async) mirror between two STK V2X4f arrays and there is no host
attached at the hot site until we want to use the data there (either for a
test or a DR situation)


>and until you issue commands that stop the
>mirroring (depending on how implemented), the remote site can't have
>anything but read access to the data, if at all.

Actually, because we use remote snapshot on our remote disk, we can
continue with production async mirror process and IPL to a copy of the data
on the remote disk with the hot site's MF hardware.  We do this every time
we have a DR exercise.

We have three copies of the data on the remote disk...
1) The staging copy where the async mirror data is written
2) Copy 1 which is remote snapped every other day
3) Copy 2 which is remote snapped every other day opposite copy 1

So for a DR test we might plan on IPLing Copy1, knowing that the async data
will continue to be written to the staging area, and then to Copy 2 for the
daily 'synchpoint'.


Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer
Systems Engineering
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
651-665-4231(v)
651-610-7670(p)

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread R.S.

Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM wrote:

"Mautalen Juan Guillermo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...

Hi,

Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system programmer
(just a RACF administrator).

When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
z/OS system active?
Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both DASD
controllers?

Thanks for your help,



Juan Mautalen


The last: between the Dasd controllers. 
The remote devices aren't even accessable by a host at the remote site.


It depends on your DASD manufacturer. AFAIK EMC secondary (R2) devices 
are accessible for R/O.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread August Carideo
got it
thanks



   
 "Chase, John" 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 >  To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 .EDU>         Re: Data replication at a remote
       site - elementary doubt 
   
 01/02/2007 09:59  
 AM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .EDU>   
   
   




> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of August Carideo
>
> how is Z/os not installed ?

The machine (z890 in CBU configuration) is not plugged in yet.

> your not replicating your system packs ?

We replicate "everything".

> our SRDF environment copies all , so all you have to do is
> IPL from the remote  site if needed are you just replicating
> data for backup purposes not DR

It's a "work in progress".

-jc-

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Thompson, Steve (SCI TW)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mautalen Juan Guillermo
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

Hi,

Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system programmer
(just a RACF administrator).

When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
z/OS system active?
Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both DASD
controllers?

Thanks for your help,



No it is not required. And until you issue commands that stop the
mirroring (depending on how implemented), the remote site can't have
anything but read access to the data, if at all. In the case of a HOT
D/R site, the remote processor(s) may be powered, but not IPL'ed. Upon
the mirroring being stopped (by commands or by the links being broken
for some reason), the "HOT" standby can now IPL.

Simple explanation for NON-Tech or someone not deeply involved in remote
mirroring.

Later,
Steve Thompson

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Chase, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of August Carideo
> 
> how is Z/os not installed ?

The machine (z890 in CBU configuration) is not plugged in yet.

> your not replicating your system packs ?

We replicate "everything".

> our SRDF environment copies all , so all you have to do is 
> IPL from the remote  site if needed are you just replicating 
> data for backup purposes not DR

It's a "work in progress".

-jc-

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread August Carideo
how is Z/os not installed ?
your not replicating your system packs ?
our SRDF environment copies all , so all you have to do is IPL from the
remote  site if needed
are you just replicating data for backup purposes not DR



   
 "Chase, John" 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 >  To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 .EDU>         Re: Data replication at a remote
       site - elementary doubt 
   
 01/02/2007 09:45  
 AM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .EDU>   
   
   




> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mautalen Juan
Guillermo
>
> Hi,
>
> Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system
> programmer (just a RACF administrator).
>
> When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of
> your DASD data to a remote site, is it necessary for the
> remote site to have a z/OS system active?
> Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both
> DASD controllers?

We do asynchronous replication between the DASD controllers.  We don't
have z/OS installed at the remote site yet.

-jc-

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Chase, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mautalen Juan
Guillermo
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system 
> programmer (just a RACF administrator).
> 
> When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of 
> your DASD data to a remote site, is it necessary for the 
> remote site to have a z/OS system active?
> Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both 
> DASD controllers?

We do asynchronous replication between the DASD controllers.  We don't
have z/OS installed at the remote site yet.

-jc-

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Re: Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM
"Mautalen Juan Guillermo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system programmer
> (just a RACF administrator).
> 
> When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
> data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
> z/OS system active?
> Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both DASD
> controllers?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> 
> 
> Juan Mautalen

The last: between the Dasd controllers. 
The remote devices aren't even accessable by a host at the remote site.

Kees.


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Data replication at a remote site - elementary doubt

2007-01-02 Thread Mautalen Juan Guillermo
Hi,

Sorry for this very basic question, but i am not a system programmer
(just a RACF administrator).

When you implement synchronuous (or asynchronuous) copy of your DASD
data to a remote site, is it necessary for the remote site to have a
z/OS system active?
Or is the copy performed at a hardware level between both DASD
controllers?

Thanks for your help,



Juan Mautalen

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