Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
Ted, It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. It's a control block thing. It doesn't cost anything; it can protect you from future growth problems. The last two shops I worked at had 20 volumes allocated in most dataclasses. I would recommend the 59 vol max. It doesn't cost; it can save. Each candidate volume takes room in the catalog which could have a big impact on gdg (b) records where the favorite limit is high, up to 255 and there is a clear favorite high level qualifier and no clear favorites for the second node. We have a very large user catalog. I would recommend dynamic volume count if you don't have something that will dynamically add volumes. Especially, since only the secondary allocation size is 'remembered' on all future volumes. True for nonvsam datasets but volume count also applies to vsam datasets. The space allocation used for vsam when extending to a new volume is the primary though you can change that to secondary for SMS managed datasets. Regards, John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:47:36 -0500, Greg Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to this (somewhat old) redbook, the same amount of space is used. http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246979.pdf From the SMS enhancements chapter: If a data set, with one primary and five candidate volumes was in a data class with a DVC of less than 7, then 24 bytes of TIOT space is required. If the same data set was using a data class with a DVC of 20, then it would require 80 bytes of TIOT space. Thanks. So no difference with DVC in respect to TIOT usage. So going back to Ted's post that I was responding to - It does matter and I wouldn't code volume count or DVC of 59 as a matter of habit just because I could. It also says this: Note: DVC for VSAM striped data sets is supported even though they are not eligible for Space Constraint Relief. Is that more or less confusing? :-) Less. Because it made me realize that someone must have been trying to change the z/OS 1.6 manual to clarify what the support was for DVC with VSAM striped data sets and instead wrote DVC was supported *only* for multi-striped VSAM data sets. A *HUGE* difference!This part of the manual was corrected (really re-written) for z/OS 1.7. I just happened to open up the 1.6 version because I had 1.6 through 1.9 on my lan bookshelf list and that one was first. However, the manual update (though z/OS 1.9) for DVC no longer mentions VSAM striped data sets specifically, instead it spells out what DVC is not supported for and also has this note: Dynamic volume count support when a data set extends is a function of access method end-of-volume (EOV) processing and not the data set type. For products that do not use the standard IBM access method EOV interface for their data sets, DVC may not be supported. Please consult with your product representative to see if it supports dynamic volume count. Regards, Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
When a dataset has multiple volumes allocated for example : Command - Enter / to select action Message Volume --- TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA ?? TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA.G1506V00 TMM829+ And I select the dataset to view the attributes, there is a message that says: To display multiple volumes press Enter or enter Cancel to Exit. If I press enter all I get is the following: All allocated volumes: More: + Number of volumes allocated: 3 TMM829 * * Is there anyway to tell what the other volumes are? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
If you type 'listc ent(/) all ' on the line-command for the dataset, it will get you a dynamic list-cat display that will include all of the volumes. David Mueller | Systems Programmer | DMS/CITS Phone: 850-414-9134 (Rm 107 SRC) | Fax: 850-921-8343 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We serve those who serve Florida http://dmspulsesurvey.myflorida.com/is -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert Cardenas Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST When a dataset has multiple volumes allocated for example : Command - Enter / to select action Message Volume --- TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA ?? TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA.G1506V00 TMM829+ And I select the dataset to view the attributes, there is a message that says: To display multiple volumes press Enter or enter Cancel to Exit. If I press enter all I get is the following: All allocated volumes: More: + Number of volumes allocated: 3 TMM829 * * Is there anyway to tell what the other volumes are? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
If you use a product like TLMS, they supply an exec called TI that will provide the info you are looking for. I don't know of any other way to get the other volumes. Hope this helps... Thanks, George Rodriguez Specialist, Systems Programmer IT-Operations (561) 357-7652 (office) (561) 707-3496 (mobil) School District of Palm Beach County 3348 Forest Hill Blvd. Room B332 West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869 Rated A by the Florida Department of Education 2005, 2006 2007 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert Cardenas Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST When a dataset has multiple volumes allocated for example : Command - Enter / to select action Message Volume --- TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA ?? TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA.G1506V00 TMM829+ And I select the dataset to view the attributes, there is a message that says: To display multiple volumes press Enter or enter Cancel to Exit. If I press enter all I get is the following: All allocated volumes: More: + Number of volumes allocated: 3 TMM829 * * Is there anyway to tell what the other volumes are? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in writing. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. Thanks, Bill Cochran AIT Mainframe Storage 502-560-3025 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert Cardenas Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST When a dataset has multiple volumes allocated for example : Command - Enter / to select action Message Volume --- TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA ?? TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA.G1506V00 TMM829+ And I select the dataset to view the attributes, there is a message that says: To display multiple volumes press Enter or enter Cancel to Exit. If I press enter all I get is the following: All allocated volumes: More: + Number of volumes allocated: 3 TMM829 * * Is there anyway to tell what the other volumes are? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:37:04 -0400, Cochran, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. Thanks, Bill Cochran AIT Mainframe Storage 502-560-3025 That's kind of what I was thinking but I thought it was kind of weird because the file has been closed so why would it hold on to the additional volume allocations especially if they weren't used. Also, in the dataclass to this dataset, I only specify a volume count of 2 but yet this shows 3 potential volumes? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
As far as I know, once it is allocated and gets the candidates, it doesn't release them. I'm not sure why it's getting 3 if you have 2 specified. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert Cardenas Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 12:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:37:04 -0400, Cochran, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. That's kind of what I was thinking but I thought it was kind of weird because the file has been closed so why would it hold on to the additional volume allocations especially if they weren't used. Also, in the dataclass to this dataset, I only specify a volume count of 2 but yet this shows 3 potential volumes? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
That's kind of what I was thinking but I thought it was kind of weird because the file has been closed so why would it hold on to the additional volume allocations especially if they weren't used. So you can expand to those volumes if the dataset were to grow. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
Gilbert, The display you are seeing for the data set's volume list is due to the fact that the data set is SMS managed. The * in the display of volumes indicates that SMS had additional volumes in its candidate list when the data set was allocated. The data set was only allocated on one volume - TMM829. This is normal for SMS allocated data sets. HITACHI DATA SYSTEMS Raymond E. Noal Senior Technical Engineer Office: (408) 970 - 7978 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert Cardenas Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST When a dataset has multiple volumes allocated for example : Command - Enter / to select action Message Volume --- TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA ?? TAPEX.SMFCICS.DATA.G1506V00 TMM829+ And I select the dataset to view the attributes, there is a message that says: To display multiple volumes press Enter or enter Cancel to Exit. If I press enter all I get is the following: All allocated volumes: More: + Number of volumes allocated: 3 TMM829 * * Is there anyway to tell what the other volumes are? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. It's a control block thing. It doesn't cost anything; it can protect you from future growth problems. The last two shops I worked at had 20 volumes allocated in most dataclasses. I would recommend the 59 vol max. It doesn't cost; it can save. Especially, since only the secondary allocation size is 'remembered' on all future volumes. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
A small caveat for your recommendation of 59 volumes. It does cost something to have 59 volumes for everything. It greatly reduces the total number of data sets you can have in your JCL. If all data sets only have a single DD you can have 3,273 DD's. If all data sets are defined with 59 volumes the limit drops to 259 DD's. This is if you specify TIOT SIZE(64) in the ALLOCxx member. If you specify a smaller SIZE the numbers go down proportionally. DB2 utilities being used on a partitioned object can require a significant number of DD's for optimum performance. Chris Blaicher BMC Software, Inc. The opinions expressed are mine, not BMC's. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. It's a control block thing. It doesn't cost anything; it can protect you from future growth problems. The last two shops I worked at had 20 volumes allocated in most dataclasses. I would recommend the 59 vol max. It doesn't cost; it can save. Especially, since only the secondary allocation size is 'remembered' on all future volumes. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:38:09 +, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. It's a control block thing. It doesn't cost anything; it can protect you from future growth problems. The last two shops I worked at had 20 volumes allocated in most dataclasses. I would recommend the 59 vol max. It doesn't cost; it can save. Especially, since only the secondary allocation size is 'remembered' on all future volumes. It does cost. It takes space in the TIOT. IIRC, 4 bytes for each candidate. Depending on how many DDs are in a step and the TIOT size defined in ALLOCxx this could cause a problem. It also can have an effect on catalog space requirements.In z/OS 1.3 IBM came up with DVC (Dynamic Volume Count) which only stores the volumes specified / used in the catalog. I'm not clear if it still takes up the same amount of space in the TIOT - I would have to research that. But now I am a little confused... the z/OS 1.6 manual that I opened up just said that DVC is a feature supported only for multi-striped VSAM data sets and had the changed bar (|) next to it. I am leaving for the day so someone perhaps can shed some light on this and I'll follow up tomorrow. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:14:21 -0500, Mark Zelden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:38:09 +, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's just showing that you have 2 additional candidate volumes allocated. They have not yet been assigned. It's a control block thing. It doesn't cost anything; it can protect you from future growth problems. The last two shops I worked at had 20 volumes allocated in most dataclasses. I would recommend the 59 vol max. It doesn't cost; it can save. Especially, since only the secondary allocation size is 'remembered' on all future volumes. It does cost. It takes space in the TIOT. IIRC, 4 bytes for each candidate. Depending on how many DDs are in a step and the TIOT size defined in ALLOCxx this could cause a problem. It also can have an effect on catalog space requirements.In z/OS 1.3 IBM came up with DVC (Dynamic Volume Count) which only stores the volumes specified / used in the catalog. I'm not clear if it still takes up the same amount of space in the TIOT - I would have to research that. But now I am a little confused... the z/OS 1.6 manual that I opened up just said that DVC is a feature supported only for multi-striped VSAM data sets and had the changed bar (|) next to it. I am leaving for the day so someone perhaps can shed some light on this and I'll follow up tomorrow. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- Thank you all for all the good information. BTW, we are on z./OS 1.7 going to 1.9 soon. I had forgotten that I was also using the following attributes for this dataclas: Space Constraint Relief . . . Y Reduce Space Up To (%) . . 50 Dynamic Volume Count . . . 5 I am not really having any issues with any of the allocations, I was just curious why some datasets listed as multi-volume datasets did not show the additional volumes but now it kind of makes sense. Thanks again, Gil. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST
According to this (somewhat old) redbook, the same amount of space is used. http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246979.pdf From the SMS enhancements chapter: If a data set, with one primary and five candidate volumes was in a data class with a DVC of less than 7, then 24 bytes of TIOT space is required. If the same data set was using a data class with a DVC of 20, then it would require 80 bytes of TIOT space. It also says this: Note: DVC for VSAM striped data sets is supported even though they are not eligible for Space Constraint Relief. Is that more or less confusing? :-) Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Company -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:14 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Displaying multiple volumes allocated from DSLIST It does cost. It takes space in the TIOT. IIRC, 4 bytes for each candidate. Depending on how many DDs are in a step and the TIOT size defined in ALLOCxx this could cause a problem. It also can have an effect on catalog space requirements.In z/OS 1.3 IBM came up with DVC (Dynamic Volume Count) which only stores the volumes specified / used in the catalog. I'm not clear if it still takes up the same amount of space in the TIOT - I would have to research that. But now I am a little confused... the z/OS 1.6 manual that I opened up just said that DVC is a feature supported only for multi-striped VSAM data sets and had the changed bar (|) next to it. I am leaving for the day so someone perhaps can shed some light on this and I'll follow up tomorrow. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
