Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
On Wed, 16 May 2007 17:22:12 -0500, Eric Bielefeld wrote:
If a vendor tries
telling you that their competitor's product is not Enterprise Class, I
would tend to chalk that up to FUD, and the vendor just trying to get
you to buy their product.
Yes, and that they can't (or won't) give you details about how they differ from
the competition.
--
Tom Marchant
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Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
Maybe we should ask this over in the Star Trek newsgroup... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
This is an enterprise class rack-mount controller What the heck does enterprise class mean nowadays, anyway? As I'm looking at virtual tape solutions that involve SATA disk for a MF solution, I'm being told by certain folks that its not enterprise class. Why? Everything in the box is redundant. Its running RAID 5 or 6. Its got hot spares and does auto rebuilds - some will even do predictive failures. Sounds pretty robust to me. Is it just because the drives -might- fail more often and have to be replaced more often? Heck, I have a spindle in my 'enterprise class' MF attached array fail every few months that has to be replaced. Whats the difference? Is it because its smaller? Its still my most important data, my 'enterprise' data. Is it because its cheaper? So what is the definitive definition of enterprise class? Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
On Wed, 16 May 2007 09:46:10 -0500, Jeffrey Deaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an enterprise class rack-mount controller What the heck does enterprise class mean nowadays, anyway? As I'm looking at virtual tape solutions that involve SATA disk for a MF solution, I'm being told by certain folks that its not enterprise class. Why? Everything in the box is redundant. Its running RAID 5 or 6. Its got hot spares and does auto rebuilds - some will even do predictive failures. Sounds pretty robust to me. Is it just because the drives -might- fail more often and have to be replaced more often? Heck, I have a spindle in my 'enterprise class' MF attached array fail every few months that has to be replaced. Whats the difference? Is it because its smaller? Its still my most important data, my 'enterprise' data. Is it because its cheaper? So what is the definitive definition of enterprise class? I don't really know , however i can say that when you use SATA disks , they are generally a lot bigger than NON-SATA ones . Without using the word enterprise class , you will realise that the time needed for rebuild is a lot longer than with smaller volumes and was sometimes not acceptable to some shops . This was pointed to me by manufacturers during my bid for SAN and they provided me with numbers ( time needed for the loss of a 500 SATA compared to a 145 GB FC Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
Jeff, A lot of the difference comes down to good old RAS. You may want to look up the old Raid Advisory Board definitions that defined the difference between fault tolerant and disaster tolerant. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Deaver Sent: Wednesday, 16 May 2007 10:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits) This is an enterprise class rack-mount controller What the heck does enterprise class mean nowadays, anyway? As I'm looking at virtual tape solutions that involve SATA disk for a MF solution, I'm being told by certain folks that its not enterprise class. Why? Everything in the box is redundant. Its running RAID 5 or 6. Its got hot spares and does auto rebuilds - some will even do predictive failures. Sounds pretty robust to me. Is it just because the drives -might- fail more often and have to be replaced more often? Heck, I have a spindle in my 'enterprise class' MF attached array fail every few months that has to be replaced. Whats the difference? Is it because its smaller? Its still my most important data, my 'enterprise' data. Is it because its cheaper? So what is the definitive definition of enterprise class? Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
I don't recall every seeing a definition of Enterprise Class, but I always just assumed from the name that it meant anything that worked well for a large enterprise. In my mind, that means reliable, scales well, and is secure. I was going to say RAS, which adds Available. H, sounds like a mainframe! I'm sure one could debate the details forever. If a vendor tries telling you that their competitor's product is not Enterprise Class, I would tend to chalk that up to FUD, and the vendor just trying to get you to buy their product. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 -Original Message- Whats the difference? Is it because its smaller? Its still my most important data, my 'enterprise' data. Is it because its cheaper? So what is the definitive definition of enterprise class? I don't really know , however i can say that when you use SATA disks , they are generally a lot bigger than NON-SATA ones . Without using the word enterprise class , you will realise that the time needed for rebuild is a lot longer than with smaller volumes and was sometimes not acceptable to some shops . This was pointed to me by manufacturers during my bid for SAN and they provided me with numbers ( time needed for the loss of a 500 SATA compared to a 145 GB FC Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
Eric, I agree wholeheartedly with that. I don't think there is any debate among the mainframe storage vendors about which boxes are Enterprise and Midrange class. Ron I'm sure one could debate the details forever. If a vendor tries telling you that their competitor's product is not Enterprise Class, I would tend to chalk that up to FUD, and the vendor just trying to get you to buy their product. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Enterprise Class? (Was Virtual tape limits)
Enterprise Class is like most other made up terms, it means whatever the sales person wants it to mean. I can remember when Dell introduced their 1st 4-way server and calling it a Enterprise Class server. Of course their defintion of enterprise was something like up to 50 or 100 concurrent users sharing files. Not what I would call enterprise level back then. Eric Bielefeld wrote: I don't recall every seeing a definition of Enterprise Class, but I always just assumed from the name that it meant anything that worked well for a large enterprise. In my mind, that means reliable, scales well, and is secure. I was going to say RAS, which adds Available. H, sounds like a mainframe! I'm sure one could debate the details forever. If a vendor tries telling you that their competitor's product is not Enterprise Class, I would tend to chalk that up to FUD, and the vendor just trying to get you to buy their product. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 -Original Message- Whats the difference? Is it because its smaller? Its still my most important data, my 'enterprise' data. Is it because its cheaper? So what is the definitive definition of enterprise class? I don't really know , however i can say that when you use SATA disks , they are generally a lot bigger than NON-SATA ones . Without using the word enterprise class , you will realise that the time needed for rebuild is a lot longer than with smaller volumes and was sometimes not acceptable to some shops . This was pointed to me by manufacturers during my bid for SAN and they provided me with numbers ( time needed for the loss of a 500 SATA compared to a 145 GB FC Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
