Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
There are alternatives to extinct and still going strong. The main one is evolving. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ? There are alternatives to extinct and still going strong. The main one is evolving. Well, I could argue that is something evolves enough, then what it used to be is now extinct. E.g. T-Rex and Chickens grin. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
True, MF skill sets seem to carry grey hair, close attention to retirement benefits, and boring pictures of grandchildren. Not to mention cranky OF's ;-) Also true is the proliferation of tinkertoy skill sets. But wait, something's wrong with that picture. Perhaps it is that the skill sets are not really comparable. A good DBA is a good DBA, and those skills tend to be platform independent. But many of those skills come with experience in the trenches, so just how good can a DBA be if he/she is below the legal drinking age? But I think (sadly enough) it is much simpler than that: the tinkertoy skills come in a -much- less expensive package. Therefore, the business case is not as clear as we technicians would like to think. A given management team may decide that the high performance, high availability, and high security is not a cost effective solution for their business mission. Let's face it, exploiting those features is hard, tedious, and costly work. Consider: do you charter an 18 wheel tank truck with an armed guard escort to transport gasoline for your lawn mower? Even a multi gazillion dollar enterprise routinely processing megatons of highly sensitive data may elect to deploy a ancillary application on a tiny server. That, in fact, happens all the time. Some potential good news is that auditors may be (finally) starting to apply the same rules to the tinkertoys as the MF. But do I advise young folks to consider the MF as a career? Tune in tomorrow. My personal $0.02, YMMV, (insert favorite disclaimers here). F wrote: We use IMS and DB2 on z/OS today and was wondering if we should consider moving to distributed systems like Oracle or SQL Server. Reason being, we are concerned about mainframe skill sets on IMS and DB2. Also the news around many systems moving away from mainframes keeps us wondering what to do. Can you recommend whats the latest out there ? How many companies are going through change and away from it and how many companies are actually going strong and developing heavily on it ? For those in the latter bucket, what about your skill sets? In my company, half of them are planning on retiring soon. Thank you NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
As a mainframe centric software and services company, our business is seeing a growth trend. An interesting observation we have seen recently is where companies who have been migrating off of the mainframe are canceling those migration plans and staying on the mainframe. One such company was in the 11th year of a 2 year migration and finally canceled it and is taking advantage of z/Linux instead of distributed server farms and leveraging the Z's reliability, stability, performance and security. Bob Robert B. Fake InfoSec, Inc. 703-825-1202 (o) 571-241-5492 (c) 949-203-0406 (efax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit us at www.infosecinc.com The information contained in this e-mail message may be proprietary and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ? F wrote: We use IMS and DB2 on z/OS today and was wondering if we should consider moving to distributed systems like Oracle or SQL Server. Reason being, we are concerned about mainframe skill sets on IMS and DB2. Also the news around many systems moving away from mainframes keeps us wondering what to do. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
I don't suppose you could publish any details (even if you have to leave the company name out)? Ken Porowski AVP Systems Software CIT Group E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Robert Fake One such company was in the 11th year of a 2 year migration and finally canceled it and is taking advantage of z/Linux instead of distributed server farms and leveraging the Z's reliability, stability, performance and security. Bob Robert B. Fake InfoSec, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
On Mon, 26 May 2008 15:54:18 -0400, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote: Now, the definitions of small and large change from year to year. One time small was 50 MIPS or under, now it might be 500 or even 1,000. Indeed. I remember being in the biggest computer room I've ever seen, with ten of the largest mainframes available. Each of them about four MIPS. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
On 27 May 2008 07:28:24 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Merritt) wrote: Some potential good news is that auditors may be (finally) starting to apply the same rules to the tinkertoys as the MF. The security solutions that need to protect data on a stolen laptop are not the same security solutions that we have developed for a mainframe.But some of those solutions may be applicable to all sizes of computers. When the auditor's rules are implemented for all sizes of computers, then the cost-benefit analysis will be more straightforward. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
Sorry - I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so, but maybe if anyone on the list has experienced a change in strategy to go back to the mainframe, they would be willing to share dome details? Bob Robert B. Fake InfoSec, Inc. 703-825-1202 (o) 571-241-5492 (c) 949-203-0406 (efax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit us at www.infosecinc.com The information contained in this e-mail message may be proprietary and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Porowski Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ? I don't suppose you could publish any details (even if you have to leave the company name out)? Ken Porowski AVP Systems Software CIT Group E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Robert Fake One such company was in the 11th year of a 2 year migration and finally canceled it and is taking advantage of z/Linux instead of distributed server farms and leveraging the Z's reliability, stability, performance and security. Bob Robert B. Fake InfoSec, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
---snip--- There are alternatives to extinct and still going strong. The main one is evolving. Well, I could argue that is something evolves enough, then what it used to be is now extinct. E.g. T-Rex and Chickens grin. ---unsnip-- EVOLUTION is a process that never ends. The speed may be slow or fast, but it never stops. :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
snip- True, MF skill sets seem to carry grey hair, close attention to retirement benefits, and boring pictures of grandchildren. Not to mention cranky OF's ;-) Also true is the proliferation of tinkertoy skill sets. But wait, something's wrong with that picture. Perhaps it is that the skill sets are not really comparable. A good DBA is a good DBA, and those skills tend to be platform independent. But many of those skills come with experience in the trenches, so just how good can a DBA be if he/she is below the legal drinking age? --unsnip--- Alcohol or Geritol? :-) Another feature of a good DBA is a detailed knowledge of the tools he/she uses, and that only seems to come with experience. snip--- But I think (sadly enough) it is much simpler than that: the tinkertoy skills come in a -much- less expensive package. Therefore, the business case is not as clear as we technicians would like to think. A given management team may decide that the high performance, high availability, and high security is not a cost effective solution for their business mission. Let's face it, exploiting those features is hard, tedious, and costly work. ---unsnip But how many consider the cost of NOT having these features? Far too few, IMHO. -snip- Consider: do you charter an 18 wheel tank truck with an armed guard escort to transport gasoline for your lawn mower? unsnip-- Considering current trends, that might happen! :-) ---snip--- Even a multi gazillion dollar enterprise routinely processing megatons of highly sensitive data may elect to deploy a ancillary application on a tiny server. That, in fact, happens all the time. ---unsnip--- But they didn't get that big by making what we would probably consider faulty decisions. Some functions might be very well suited for smaller platforms. For example, some function that is computation-intensive might work well on a smaller platform, whereas database mining might well be suited for the larger, more I/O efficient platform. Each application and platform has pros and cons. snip Some potential good news is that auditors may be (finally) starting to apply the same rules to the tinkertoys as the MF. ---unsnip--- It's about time. Such things as change management and quality control have some serious catching up to do. And security can be abysmal. --snip--- But do I advise young folks to consider the MF as a career? Tune in tomorrow. -unsnip-- I do, just because we're all getting older, and retiring, with nobody to take our places. The whole IT industry is evolving; we need to recognise this evolution and adapt to it. Can we all say Natural Selection? Machinery will change; usage will change; we need to learn to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each platform. Blinders off, wide-angle vision on. Now if we could convince management and schools of this, good sense will follow and management by airline magazine would come to a well-deserved end. My personal $0.02, YMMV, (insert favorite disclaimers here). F wrote: We use IMS and DB2 on z/OS today and was wondering if we should consider moving to distributed systems like Oracle or SQL Server. Reason being, we are concerned about mainframe skill sets on IMS and DB2. Also the news around many systems moving away from mainframes keeps us wondering what to do. Can you recommend whats the latest out there ? How many companies are going through change and away from it and how many companies are actually going strong and developing heavily on it ? For those in the latter bucket, what about your skill sets? In my company, half of them are planning on retiring soon. Thank you NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html --
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
Interesting, but from my addled perspective, the MF industry has always been evolutionary where the PC industry has been revolutionary. That is, were the differences between two or three releases of z/os typically takes a skilled application of IEAEYEBALL, each release of Windows seems to entail a brutal learning curve. Witness the Vista legacy driver issue: many perfectly good pieces of hardware aren't usable, and aren't likely to ever be usable. Indeed, more than one CD-WORM (write once, read many) data archival project was ended because of the uncertainly that the enabling PC technology would be around for the life of the data. Why revolutionary? Because that model appeals to a basic human assumption that new is better and that model has been -very- successful in a number of industries. Tried and true simply isn't cool, especially to the less experienced. My $0.02 (before taxes) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ? ---snip--- There are alternatives to extinct and still going strong. The main one is evolving. Well, I could argue that is something evolves enough, then what it used to be is now extinct. E.g. T-Rex and Chickens grin. ---unsnip-- EVOLUTION is a process that never ends. The speed may be slow or fast, but it never stops. :-) NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:08 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ? [snip] Why revolutionary? Because that model appeals to a basic human assumption that new is better and that model has been -very- successful in a number of industries. Tried and true simply isn't cool, especially to the less experienced. My $0.02 (before taxes) It also helps the bottom line of the companies involved. Gee, you want a new PC? Gotta get Vista to run it. Oh, and the old Office won't run on Vista, so you gotta get the new Office as well. And your ... version of ... won't run either, so you'll need to upgrade that too! Penguins rule! GRIN -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
On 27 May 2008 10:07:46 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Merritt) wrote: Why revolutionary? Because that model appeals to a basic human assumption that new is better and that model has been -very- successful in a number of industries. Tried and true simply isn't cool, especially to the less experienced. On the other hand, one of the weaknesses of Windows is that it tries to be evolutionary under the covers.Apples has re-written its core for different processors, and with OS-X went to Unix under the covers - which allowed it to be written with a core that was less subject to malware.It could do this because it wasn't concerned with hardware compatibility (as with IBM mainframes, the software and hardware designs were owned by the same company). And it just told software developers to adapt. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframes.. Extinct or still going strong ?
F wrote: We use IMS and DB2 on z/OS today and was wondering if we should consider moving to distributed systems like Oracle or SQL Server. Reason being, we are concerned about mainframe skill sets on IMS and DB2. Also the news around many systems moving away from mainframes keeps us wondering what to do. This seems funny to me since my recent (past 5-10 years) experience with folks claiming Oracle and SQL Server skill sets reinforces my opinion that DB2 on z/OS is still on rock solid ground. There is a truly scary lack of SQL Server skill sets in today's marketplace and not much in terms of Oracle skill sets either. Nothing to bother writing home about anyway. If any company is considering a move from z/OS and DB2 to SQL Server or Oracle I would truly want to know about it. -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
