Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
In blu149-w59c200c736c4c1c3a435eba1...@phx.gbl, on 03/01/2010 at 01:47 PM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com said: With a little extra effort he could support lowercase characters, just as he could also support TSO commands that won't fit on a single command line. In other words, No. You're not restating it, you're changing it. he could design all of his panels with command lines that extend over 3 lines, just in case someone wants to call FOO and pass it a long string of parameters. But this would mean wasting a lot of space on every ISPF panel, so the disadvantages of doing this would far outweigh the advantages. Or he could allow entry of, e.g., a slash, as an indication to bring up a panel with a longer entry field. Which, as you know, is what some ISPF panels do. This is because the vast majority of procedures don't expect mixed case characters and can successfully fit on a single command line. No, it's because they never thought of handling it. The code involved is minimal. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
In blu149-w539568df98dc392b6d7170a1...@phx.gbl, on 03/02/2010 at 12:45 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com said: I think we're just using a different interpretation of 'case sensitive'. Most ISPF panels convert input to uppercase, so dialogs test for uppercase commands. But if ISPF panels converted input to lowercase, dialogs would simply test for lowercase commands. Converting to lower case would be as bad as converting to upper case; what is needed is ASIS. But ISPF commands are not case sensitive, No. While the names are not case sensitive, the operands are. I have to conclude that the order of processing is something like this: 1) A user enters a command on a command line and presses an interrupt key (e.g. ENTER). 2) The data on the panel is pre-processed by the terminal (or emulator) based on the attributes of the panel; e.g. if the command line is defined as (or defaults) to CAPS(ON), the command is converted to uppercase. WTF? Shirley you know better than that upper/lower case translation is done on the mainframe, not on the terminal. The ISPF Dialog Manager interprets CAPS(ON). Unless I misunderstand, ISPF does have facility. Correct, subject to the installation limit on the number of logical screens. I connect to WSA from a batch job if I need more. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
In listserv%201003011135143435.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 03/01/2010 at 11:35 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: I deem it a design flaw that the case conversion is performed before the TSO escape is recognized, rather than after. I would see it as a hideous design decision to make upper casing decisions based on parsing the command line. Either upper case the whole thing or let the code in the command decide. Isn't this handled by the input routine, not by code in the various panels? Do you consider options in the panel definition to be code? The input routines do what the panel definitions say to do. This design choice should be considered Overcome by Events, No, as you note below. Upper casing the input in a field that allows TSO commands was never a sound design decision. PMR, anyone? (Expect WAD!) BAD. In listserv%201003012036246175.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 03/01/2010 at 08:36 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: And here, I'd like someone to confirm or refute my conjecture that 'TSO' is detected and handled by the input processor, not by the code specific to the panel. Neither, or E. All of the above. The panel determines the CAPS option and the input routine behaves in accodance with it. The panel defines the command line, the[1] command table defines TSO and ISPF looks up the command in the table. That is, does each panel supporting the 'TSO' command need to contain logic such as: SELECT WHEN COMMAND=='TSO' then issue TSO command string; No. or does it happen automatically? Well, as automatically as UP and DOWN. If the 'TSO' command is processed by the input routine and not by the individual panel code, it would be Poor design. The solution to a problem should take into account the potential existance of similar problems. I see 'TSO' as an accommodation to the fundamental limition of ISPF. In Windows, it's easy enough to open a command window (or several) while editing a file What is START 6, chopped liver? Admittedly that's new, but it's been there longer than some of the readers here. If ISPF had this facility, It does. there'd be little point in being able to issue a TSO command from its command line. No, there'd still be a point to it; TSO foo is a lot quicker than either starting an option 6 panel or opening a windoze command window. I use the TSO command and the TSPF equivalent a lot more than I do START 6 for one off commands. [1] Well, the relevant command table. In listserv%201003012055142209.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 03/01/2010 at 08:55 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: Wouldn't it be great to have an ISPF successor that used a web browser as a display server, supporting scrolling input fields, etc.? Worked real well for IBMLink, didn't it? I'd rather see them enhance the existing WSA and integration tools to provide for: 1. Long entry fields for file transfers 2. Workstation file dialogs for file transfers, e.g., the Browse option in Firefox File - Save as 3. Cut and paste for the WSA window a. Single field b. Multiple field (block) c. Multiple field (stream) 4. Long entry field for both host and worksataion commands 5. Workstation file dialogs for BROWSE/EDIT/VIEW 6. Workstation directories in ISPF 3.4 Wouldn't it be great to have an ISPF successor that used a web browser as a display server, Only if nightmares are great. supporting scrolling input fields, etc.? I'd much rather see them use, e.g., QT4, and avoid all the ills that web browsers are heir to. Sure, the design target of ISPF was 3270, but most programmers have better display facilities on their desktops nowadays. I've never had trouble doing a cut/copy from or a paste to a 3270 window; I have had trouble with browser windows. In listserv%201003030921420545.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 03/03/2010 at 09:21 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: Recognize, of course, that OS/360 was one of the earliest systems to perpetrate this behavior, No, because earlier systems used 6-bit characters for which there was no lower case. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
No matter what I try, I still can't get tsocmd;foo bar to work correctly (lower case bar in the Rexx exec) when the command input field is CAPS(ON). If it works for you, though, try this: cmde;foo bar Recent ISPF versions (I'm on z/OS 1.10, but I'm sure it was in 1.9, maybe before) have this cmde command which selects program ISPCCMDE and just executes 1 command. Note that these options are not _exactly_ like the 'TSO' command. Try TSO HELP, and then try TSOCMD;HELP or CMDE;HELP. Actually, having thought about this, I believe ISPF development _could_ solve the issue without dialog developers making _any_ changes. Here's my proposition and defense: The ISPF dialog manager would display the command input (ZCMD or equivalent) field with CAPS(OFF) regardless of how it is defined in the panel. If the command is entered by the user with a leading '' it would upper case the command if CAPS(ON) is specified or defaulted in the panel, then pass it to the dialog as usual. Otherwise, it would (as usual) search the command tables for a match on the first word of the command input. If it finds a match in the application table (see 3.9, Command Table Utility) it would upper case the command and take the action specified in the command table. If it finds a match in _any other command table_ (user,site,system) it would _not_ upper case the command and take the action specified. If it does not find a match in any command table, it would upper case the command and pass it to the dialog (as usual). The panel definition is basically a contract between the ISPF dialog manager and the dialog that provided the panel. It does _not_ need to be a description of how ISPF should implement the display. As long as the display is _effectively_ the same, ISPF has some leeway in the implementation. The dialog and associated (application) command table may depend on the panel statements being honored by ISPF - that is the purpose of the statements. Command tables which are _not_ part of a dialog (user,site,system) _cannot_ depend on a specific panels field definitions. ISPF itself supplies panels which allow mixed case input in the command field. Any user, site or system table which requires CAPS(ON) is _already broken_ using any supported version of ISPF. Because of this, I do not believe the panel statements for the command input field (which already recieves special processing by ISPF) should impact (sometimes adversely) the information passed to command table entries. That is, the way the dialog manager processes panels today, user, site and system table commands can be (and are) broken by application-defined panels. The command table developers have _no control_ over the application- defined panels (the panels may even be dynamically produced by a vendor- supplied load module). The dialog manager _can_ be fixed to preserve case for command tables (which will _not_ break them if they are not already broken) without breaking existing applications (dialogs). Please show me how I am wrong. Otherwise, it looks like a requirement may be in order (and I've never done that before). Just FYI, my concern is _not_ the TSO command. I write my own, and they may _require_ mixed case due to unix file naming, which is beyond my control (I hate case-sensitive commands and file names). On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:02:16 -0500, Hardee, Charles H charles.har...@ca.com wrote: That's the problem. I've fought this battle before and can't figure out the winning move. There's no easy solution. Some are better than others and some are near impossible to do due to policies in effect at one's site, etc. I would really love to see the ISPF tool changed to support lower case. That's work for the people at IBM, though as others have indicated and with whom I agree, it should have been done up front. No one I know lives in a black and white world, there is plenty of color out there, so why are we limited to upper only when we could upper, lower and mixed. I guess the bottom line is that one must chose one's bed and then lie in it. Either one customizes the ISPF panels as needed, or uses the TSOCMD process or invents their own, any way you look at it, someone isn't going to like what you do and someone will end up having to live with it. How's that for sitting on the fence? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Salt Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Fair enough, but what do you suggest instead? Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:26:35 -0500 From: charles.har...@ca.com Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu I've tried this and if it were me, I wouldn't go for it. TSOCMD;foo bar works
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:24:44 -0600, Robert Birdsall wrote: ... (I hate case-sensitive commands and file names). ... Recognize, of course, that OS/360 was one of the earliest systems to perpetrate this behavior, by making its Data Management Services case-sensitive. It's easier to exhibit nowadays: //DOIT EXEC PGM=IEWL,PARM='MAP,LET,LIST,NCAL,CASE=MIXED' //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=(,) //SYSTERM DD SYSOUT=(,) //HANDLEDD DISP=(MOD,CATLG),SPACE=(1000,(1000,,5)),UNIT=SYSALLDA, // DSN=SYSUID..TEST.MIXED.CASE //SYSLMOD DD DISP=SHR,DSN=*.HANDLE,VOL=REF=*.HANDLE //SYSLIBDD DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.LINKLIB //SYSLINDD * INCLUDE SYSLIB(IEFBR14) NAME FooBar(R) //* I hate APIs that won't let me access files in the intrinsically case-sensitive filesystem. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Well, thanks all. I used a combination of approaches. 1. I found the TSOCMD approach totally unsatisfactory. It seemed to upper-case the argument and throw me out of the panel I wanted to be on and onto ISPF 6. 2. In the Rexx, if the arguments show up as mixed case I use them as-is; if they show up all upper case I prompt for the user (me) to re-type them as Rexx Pull input. 3. The *** is not a problem because the Rexx submits a job and I would have to dismiss the *** in any event. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:24:44 -0600, Robert Birdsall wrote: ... (I hate case-sensitive commands and file names). ... Recognize, of course, that OS/360 was one of the earliest systems to perpetrate this behavior, by making its Data Management Services case-sensitive. It's easier to exhibit nowadays: //DOIT EXEC PGM=IEWL,PARM='MAP,LET,LIST,NCAL,CASE=MIXED' //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=(,) //SYSTERM DD SYSOUT=(,) //HANDLEDD DISP=(MOD,CATLG),SPACE=(1000,(1000,,5)),UNIT=SYSALLDA, // DSN=SYSUID..TEST.MIXED.CASE //SYSLMOD DD DISP=SHR,DSN=*.HANDLE,VOL=REF=*.HANDLE //SYSLIBDD DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.LINKLIB //SYSLINDD * INCLUDE SYSLIB(IEFBR14) NAME FooBar(R) //* I hate APIs that won't let me access files in the intrinsically case-sensitive filesystem. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:32:04 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: 2. In the Rexx, if the arguments show up as mixed case I use them as-is; if they show up all upper case I prompt for the user (me) to re-type them as Rexx Pull input. Are you delighted, or do you just want to wash your hands? 3. The *** is not a problem because the Rexx submits a job and I would have to dismiss the *** in any event. SMBMIT does that to you. How silly. I wonder if it could be OUTTRAPed and issued as a ZEDLMSG? (Just being compulsive.) (But I have a macro that writes directly to INTRDR and provokes no message. But it doesn't display the job ID.) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Well, I guess the good news is that coding around the oddities of OS/360, MVS, OS/390, and z/OS has provided a fairly good living for me over the years. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:32:04 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: 2. In the Rexx, if the arguments show up as mixed case I use them as-is; if they show up all upper case I prompt for the user (me) to re-type them as Rexx Pull input. Are you delighted, or do you just want to wash your hands? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On 3 March 2010 13:14, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:32:04 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: 2. In the Rexx, if the arguments show up as mixed case I use them as-is; if they show up all upper case I prompt for the user (me) to re-type them as Rexx Pull input. Are you delighted, or do you just want to wash your hands? 3. The *** is not a problem because the Rexx submits a job and I would have to dismiss the *** in any event. SMBMIT does that to you. How silly. I wonder if it could be OUTTRAPed and issued as a ZEDLMSG? (Just being compulsive.) Depends on whether it issues a PUTLINE or a TPUT. It's probably a PUTLINE. (But I have a macro that writes directly to INTRDR and provokes no message. But it doesn't display the job ID.) If you want the job ID you have to use the VSAM interface to write to INTRDR. But of course you then *don't* issue a PUTLINE or TPUT to force the session into line-mode and provoke the ***. No way that I know of to use the VSAM interface from REXX or really anything other than assembler. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:48:20 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote: On 3 March 2010 13:14, Paul Gilmartin wrote: SMBMIT does that to you. How silly. I wonder if it could be OUTTRAPed and issued as a ZEDLMSG? (Just being compulsive.) Depends on whether it issues a PUTLINE or a TPUT. It's probably a PUTLINE. OUTTRAP didn't snag it, so it seems to be a TPUT. (But I have a macro that writes directly to INTRDR and provokes no message. But it doesn't display the job ID.) If you want the job ID you have to use the VSAM interface to write to INTRDR. But of course you then *don't* issue a PUTLINE or TPUT to force the session into line-mode and provoke the ***. No way that I know of to use the VSAM interface from REXX or really anything other than assembler. OTOH, writing directly to INTRDR bypasses the obsolete (now delusional) FIXED-80 JCL restriction. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On 3 March 2010 19:16, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:48:20 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote: No way that I know of to use the VSAM interface from REXX or really anything other than assembler. Wasn't there a REXX VSAM package out there somewhere? Even if so, it would have to retrieve the RPL feedback code to get the jobid. (Hmmm - I'm replying to myself again.) OTOH, writing directly to INTRDR bypasses the obsolete (now delusional) FIXED-80 JCL restriction. Only for inline data, surely? It's too much for my old brain to believe you can actually have JCL statements that extend beyond column 71. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Here's a rexx exec to trap the submit and display a message.
/* rexx */
arg dsname .
x = outtrap(submit.)
address tso submit 'dsname'
subrc = rc
x = outtrap(off)
if rc = 0 then
do
j = pos('JOB ',submit.1)
k = pos('(JOB',submit.1)
jobname = substr(submit.1,j+4,k-j-4)
jobno = substr(submit.1,k+4,5) + 0
zerrtp = NOTIFY
zerrwn = NORESP
zerrlm = Job submitted as jobname jobname - job number jobno
end
else
do
zerrtp = ACTION
zerrwn = RESP
zerrlm = Submit failed for dsname RC=subrc
end
address ispexec setmsg msg(isrz003)
return subrc
--
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Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 23:06:12 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote: OTOH, writing directly to INTRDR bypasses the obsolete (now delusional) FIXED-80 JCL restriction. Only for inline data, surely? It's too much for my old brain to Yes. By crude experiment (not well documented in JCL RM): For JES2, attributes of inline data are, RECFM=recfm-of-INTRDR (This may break many utilities.) LRECL=length of longest line read (+4 if VB). (Min of 80) For JES3, attributes of inline data are, RECFM=FB LRECL=length of longest line read. (Min of 80) believe you can actually have JCL statements that extend beyond column 71. JCL statements that extend beyond col. 80 are quietly truncated at 80. No error is reported. Data beyond 80 are not listed, and do not appear in the SDSF SJ command. But it's liberating. A few months ago, I was struggling with how to wrap some inline data, indicating conditions so the program could reconstruct it when I thought, Wait! That's _so_ 20th century. I can make my SYSIN as wide as I need! TSO SUBMIT is still stuck in the 20th century. Too bad; the restriction could be lifted without introducing incompatibility. Some history for JES2: 04 /* Test for behavior of OW10527, for MSGIEB351I, 05 /* regressed by OW16774. 06 /* 07 /* Possibly restored by $T INTRDR,DCBATTR=YES (but see OA05982) 08 /* 09 /* See also * OA08145 *, OA12472, OA19652, OA11953, -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:27:20 -0600, Al Loeffler wrote: x = outtrap(submit.) address tso submit 'dsname' subrc = rc x = outtrap(off) Interesting. Works as I'd expect. But if I do: x = outtrap(submit.) address 'ISREDIT' 'SUBMIT' /* Submit ISREDIT buffer. */ subrc = rc x = outtrap(off) ... the message is not trapped; goes to the screen, and I get the '***'. Go figger. Anyway, it restricts me to FIXED 80. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Well, we could beat this to death forever. Obviously Windows has a split function just like ISPF -- except that it is much more flexible and supports an unlimited number of splits rather than one. I think you could excuse any shortcoming using your logic. Suppose DD DSN= only supported 32-character dataset names. One could excuse this behavior with IBM was kind enough to give us the DD statement. It was never intended for datasets with long names ... If IBM is going to provide UNIX file support from within ISPF (and they do) then the TSO command ought to accommodate them, IMHO. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Salt Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? In Windows, it's easy enough to open a command window (or several) while editing a file (or several) with WordPad without disrupting one's edit session(s) and Copy and Paste among the WordPad and command windows. Isn't this the same as splitting the screen and going into ISPF option 6? In other words, you don't have to disrupt whatever session you happen to be in, and can have a command window where TSO commands can be entered? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Here's an interesting observation. The ISPF Edit Entry Panel (what I have been calling the edit file name panel) supports UNIX mixed-case file names in the Other ... file field. So ISPF is clearly not converting everything to upper case. Yet tso foo bar on the Command=== prompt produces upper case output. Not quite sure how to fit that into the order of upper casing/command recognition detective work. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Salt Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? When a command is entered on a command line, ISPF checks to see if the command is recognized as an ISPF command. If it is (for example, if it's SPLIT, SWAP, HELP, TSO, etc) then ISPF processes the command and the underlying dialog (e.g. the ISPF panel) is completely unaware a command was even entered. If the command isn't recognized by ISPF (e.g. if a user enters DOG, FISH, DOIT, etc) the command is passed through to the dialog. The dialog can then process the command, or reject it if the command is unknown. Suppose 'TsO' is entered on a command line that has (or defaults) to CAPS(ON). I'm guessing (but not 100% sure) that the panel attributes cause the command to be uppercased to 'TSO' even *before* the data stream is sent to the mainframe for processing. If this is true, it means even ISPF itself has no idea what was actually entered on the command line, and therefore has no possible opportunity to preserve the original case of the command. If this assumption is wrong I'd think it would be fairly easy for ISPF to preserve the original case of the command. But as this isn't being done, I have to conclude that the order of processing is something like this: 1) A user enters a command on a command line and presses an interrupt key (e.g. ENTER). 2) The data on the panel is pre-processed by the terminal (or emulator) based on the attributes of the panel; e.g. if the command line is defined as (or defaults) to CAPS(ON), the command is converted to uppercase. 3) The data stream is then sent to the mainframe, where it is inspected by ISPF. 4) ISPF converts the first 'word' of the command to uppercase (just in case it was entered on a command line that isn't defined as CAPS(ON)). 5) If the command is recognized by ISPF (e.g. SPLIT,SWAP, HELP, TSO, etc) then it's processed by ISPF. Otherwise, ISPF passes the command through to the underlying dialog (e.g. the procedure that displayed the ISPF panel). I don't know anything about data streams and how they're passed back and forth between terminals and the mainframe, but it would certainly be interesting if someone on this list could confirm whether commands are converted to uppercase before they're sent to the mainframe? In other words, if step 2 above is incorrect and no conversion takes place prior to the data stream being sent to the mainframe, then maybe there is an opportunity for ISPF to preserve the original case of the TSO command? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
To help clarify (I hope), The commands that ISPF recognized (TSO, SPLIT, etc.) are not coded in an ISPF program/load module somewhere - they are in a command table. You can modify the one included with ISPF, create your own, etc. Typically in a panel definition the command line is defined with an _ (pre- defined as in input field with CAPS(ON)), but that can be changed by a panel developer. The ISPF panel i...@prim as shipped uses hex 26 for the command field, and defines it as 'TYPE(NEF) CAPS(ON) PADC(USER)'. I changed it on my main menu so I can support lower case. I did this, not for TSO commands, but for my own ISPF commands which allow access to unix paths. To allow this, I changed the CAPS(ON) to CAPS(OFF), and added a command to uppercase a copy of the command ONLY for the purpose of selecting a menu option. This allows such things as selecting option X (exit) from the menu without regard to case. Note that commands in the command table do _not_ require this - that is, I have no special code to handle commands like 'TSO' - ISPF recognizes the command 'tso listalc' or 'TSO listalc' just fine. It also recognizes 'vw /.some_unix_file' where VW is defined in a command table and /.some_unix_file is a unix file name requireing lower case characters. While I recognize that this cannot be done generically by the ISPF developers for _every_ panel (specifically, the ones that they do not code), it would be nice if panel developers (all of them) would provide for lower case as it becomes more commonly required. The SDSF main menu does not react to my tinkering so kindly. Hmm... I wonder if ISPF could consider the CAPS(ON) to only hold for data passed to the dialog itself. That is, ISPF could display and process the panel as if CAPS(OFF) were coded, but if the data in the field must be passed to the dialog, translate it to upper case. If so, my previous statement might not hold. On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 07:43:14 -0800, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: Here's an interesting observation. The ISPF Edit Entry Panel (what I have been calling the edit file name panel) supports UNIX mixed-case file names in the Other ... file field. So ISPF is clearly not converting everything to upper case. Yet tso foo bar on the Command=== prompt produces upper case output. Not quite sure how to fit that into the order of upper casing/command recognition detective work. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Salt Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? When a command is entered on a command line, ISPF checks to see if the command is recognized as an ISPF command. If it is (for example, if it's SPLIT, SWAP, HELP, TSO, etc) then ISPF processes the command and the underlying dialog (e.g. the ISPF panel) is completely unaware a command was even entered. If the command isn't recognized by ISPF (e.g. if a user enters DOG, FISH, DOIT, etc) the command is passed through to the dialog. The dialog can then process the command, or reject it if the command is unknown. Suppose 'TsO' is entered on a command line that has (or defaults) to CAPS(ON). I'm guessing (but not 100% sure) that the panel attributes cause the command to be uppercased to 'TSO' even *before* the data stream is sent to the mainframe for processing. If this is true, it means even ISPF itself has no idea what was actually entered on the command line, and therefore has no possible opportunity to preserve the original case of the command. If this assumption is wrong I'd think it would be fairly easy for ISPF to preserve the original case of the command. But as this isn't being done, I have to conclude that the order of processing is something like this: 1) A user enters a command on a command line and presses an interrupt key (e.g. ENTER). 2) The data on the panel is pre-processed by the terminal (or emulator) based on the attributes of the panel; e.g. if the command line is defined as (or defaults) to CAPS(ON), the command is converted to uppercase. 3) The data stream is then sent to the mainframe, where it is inspected by ISPF. 4) ISPF converts the first 'word' of the command to uppercase (just in case it was entered on a command line that isn't defined as CAPS(ON)). 5) If the command is recognized by ISPF (e.g. SPLIT,SWAP, HELP, TSO, etc) then it's processed by ISPF. Otherwise, ISPF passes the command through to the underlying dialog (e.g. the procedure that displayed the ISPF panel). I don't know anything about data streams and how they're passed back and forth between terminals and the mainframe, but it would certainly be interesting if someone on this list could confirm whether commands are converted to uppercase before they're sent to the mainframe? In other words, if step 2 above is incorrect and no conversion takes place prior to the data stream being sent
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
I know next to nothing about ISPF panel development. Would you and/or the assembled crowd guess that modifying the ISPF panel definitions was a reasonable way to proceed? If I could support passing lower-case strings to a Rexx CLIST exec from (1) the main menu panel and (2) from the Edit Entry Panel I think I would be a happy camper. Level set: I am the only developer using this machine. I have total RACF control. The ISPF panels *may* be on read-only volumes as this is an IBM Dallas VM guest. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Birdsall Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To help clarify (I hope), The commands that ISPF recognized (TSO, SPLIT, etc.) are not coded in an ISPF program/load module somewhere - they are in a command table. You can modify the one included with ISPF, create your own, etc. Typically in a panel definition the command line is defined with an _ (pre- defined as in input field with CAPS(ON)), but that can be changed by a panel developer. The ISPF panel i...@prim as shipped uses hex 26 for the command field, and defines it as 'TYPE(NEF) CAPS(ON) PADC(USER)'. I changed it on my main menu so I can support lower case. I did this, not for TSO commands, but for my own ISPF commands which allow access to unix paths. To allow this, I changed the CAPS(ON) to CAPS(OFF), and added a command to uppercase a copy of the command ONLY for the purpose of selecting a menu option. This allows such things as selecting option X (exit) from the menu without regard to case. Note that commands in the command table do _not_ require this - that is, I have no special code to handle commands like 'TSO' - ISPF recognizes the command 'tso listalc' or 'TSO listalc' just fine. It also recognizes 'vw /.some_unix_file' where VW is defined in a command table and /.some_unix_file is a unix file name requireing lower case characters. While I recognize that this cannot be done generically by the ISPF developers for _every_ panel (specifically, the ones that they do not code), it would be nice if panel developers (all of them) would provide for lower case as it becomes more commonly required. The SDSF main menu does not react to my tinkering so kindly. Hmm... I wonder if ISPF could consider the CAPS(ON) to only hold for data passed to the dialog itself. That is, ISPF could display and process the panel as if CAPS(OFF) were coded, but if the data in the field must be passed to the dialog, translate it to upper case. If so, my previous statement might not hold. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Charles, This is what I have done on my Dallas guest: Find the 'VENDOR.ISPPLIB'. Copy the panel(s) you want to change from their original home and modify them in the VENDOR.ISPPLIB library, which, of course, is concatenated first. Charles Mills wrote: I know next to nothing about ISPF panel development. Would you and/or the assembled crowd guess that modifying the ISPF panel definitions was a reasonable way to proceed? If I could support passing lower-case strings to a Rexx CLIST exec from (1) the main menu panel and (2) from the Edit Entry Panel I think I would be a happy camper. Level set: I am the only developer using this machine. I have total RACF control. The ISPF panels *may* be on read-only volumes as this is an IBM Dallas VM guest. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Birdsall Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To help clarify (I hope), The commands that ISPF recognized (TSO, SPLIT, etc.) are not coded in an ISPF program/load module somewhere - they are in a command table. You can modify the one included with ISPF, create your own, etc. Typically in a panel definition the command line is defined with an _ (pre- defined as in input field with CAPS(ON)), but that can be changed by a panel developer. The ISPF panel i...@prim as shipped uses hex 26 for the command field, and defines it as 'TYPE(NEF) CAPS(ON) PADC(USER)'. I changed it on my main menu so I can support lower case. I did this, not for TSO commands, but for my own ISPF commands which allow access to unix paths. To allow this, I changed the CAPS(ON) to CAPS(OFF), and added a command to uppercase a copy of the command ONLY for the purpose of selecting a menu option. This allows such things as selecting option X (exit) from the menu without regard to case. Note that commands in the command table do _not_ require this - that is, I have no special code to handle commands like 'TSO' - ISPF recognizes the command 'tso listalc' or 'TSO listalc' just fine. It also recognizes 'vw /.some_unix_file' where VW is defined in a command table and /.some_unix_file is a unix file name requireing lower case characters. While I recognize that this cannot be done generically by the ISPF developers for _every_ panel (specifically, the ones that they do not code), it would be nice if panel developers (all of them) would provide for lower case as it becomes more commonly required. The SDSF main menu does not react to my tinkering so kindly. Hmm... I wonder if ISPF could consider the CAPS(ON) to only hold for data passed to the dialog itself. That is, ISPF could display and process the panel as if CAPS(OFF) were coded, but if the data in the field must be passed to the dialog, translate it to upper case. If so, my previous statement might not hold. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Axios Products, Inc. supp...@axiosproducts.com 631-864-3666 x133 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
From: charl...@mcn.org I know next to nothing about ISPF panel development. Would you and/or the assembled crowd guess that modifying the ISPF panel definitions was a reasonable way to proceed? I'd strongly advise against it. First, customizing a panel means you have to remember to reapply the customization each and every time the operating system is upgraded. Second, it would only buy you what you want on a couple of panels and there are hundreds more that would also need to be customized (or where you still couldn't do what you want). Third, there's a reason the panels were defined as CAPS(ON), so changing them to CAPS(OFF) might allow you to do what you want but could potentially cause other things to break. Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html _ Check your Hotmail from your phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
From: charl...@mcn.org Here's an interesting observation. The ISPF Edit Entry Panel (what I have been calling the edit file name panel) supports UNIX mixed-case file names in the Other ... file field. So ISPF is clearly not converting everything to upper case. Every field on an ISPF panel is defined using an attribute character. Sometimes a field has it's own unique attribute character, and sometimes several fields all share the same attribute character. For example, perhaps the command line is defined as TYPE(INPUT) COLOR(RED) CAPS(ON) while several output fields are all defined as TYPE(OUTPUT) COLOR(WHITE) CAPS(OFF). So, it's quite possible to have a command line that's defined as or defaults to CAPS(ON) while other fields on the panel are defined as CAPS(OFF). Whether a field is defined as CAPS(ON) or CAPS(OFF) depends on what type of data the dialog developer expects to be entered in the field. Obviously a field that prompts for UNIX file names will be defined as CAPS(OFF), while a command line where commands such as SPLIT, HELP, SWAP (etc) are entered would most likely be defined as CAPS(ON). HTH, Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html _ Take your contacts everywhere http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
-Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 18:27 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? From: charl...@mcn.org snipped Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? Dave Salt Are Your serious ? Regards, Thomas Berg _ Thomas Berg Specialist A M SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:27:11 -0500, Dave Salt wrote:
Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check
the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. Wouldn't it be better to
test whether the panel has the CAPS(ON) attribute?
If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to
enter this command on the TSOCMD panel)
What about intrinsic commands such as ALLOCATE PATH('...')? Wouldn't
he need to front-end all of those?
and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered?
And if he entered the command arguments, or intends to respond to
prompts by copying and pasting from the text displayed in the panel,
he will have just lost that capability.
Ugh!
It would be better to have a CAPS {OFF|ON} command, available on
every command line, to suspend/override the specification in the
panel definition.
--gil
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Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
From: charl...@mcn.org Well, we could beat this to death forever. Obviously Windows has a split function just like ISPF -- except that it is much more flexible and supports an unlimited number of splits rather than one. One??? ISPF has supported a default of 8 splits for a very long time, and more can be defined if required. SPLIT NEW and SWAP NEXT swap between multiple split screens. I think you could excuse any shortcoming using your logic. Suppose DD DSN= only supported 32-character dataset names. One could excuse this behavior with IBM was kind enough to give us the DD statement. It was never intended for datasets with long names ... In the place where I grew up a red traffic light meant STOP. It was illegal to turn left or right on a red light. When I emigrated I discovered it was legal to turn right on a red light. I was delighted. However, there are a few intersections where turning right on a red light is prohibited. I don't complain about the rare circumstances where I can't turn right, but instead I take delight in all the other circumstances where I can turn right. Just because I can't turn right 100% of the time doesn't mean the system is broken. If it did, the only solution would be to allow people to always turn right (even in dangerous situations), or prohibit people from ever turning right. Neither of these 'solutions' is better than the current system where I can 'usually' turn right. In ISPF, I can 'usually' enter a TSO command on any ISPF panel, and it works. In rare situations (e.g. where the command is too long to fit on the command line or is case sensitive), I have to enter 3 extra characters on the command line; i.e. 'TSOCMD;' (followed by the TSO command) instead of just 'TSO '. I don't see entering 3 extra characters as a very big deal, and I think it's FAR less dangerous than taking the route of customizing panels to accept lowercase characters. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
I don't agree in that I wouldn't strongly advise against it. I would, however, proceed with caution. If you are going to modify the panels, stick to a small number of panels (preferably one). You will need to repeat the modification each time the panel provider changes the panel they provide. For me, it was easy. We already modify the ISPF Primary Option Menu to give different groups of users different options, so I'm stuck with maintaining those modifications regardless. I only changed the 'Option' field on the menu for the System Programmers, so I would only affect a small number of users (and they would let me know immediately if there was a problem). That particular panel only has 1 field using that attribute character (the x'26'). Typically, menu panels (as defined by ISPF) don't pass data directly to the dialog that displays them via the command or option line. Be wary, though. Not all menus are actually implemented this way. As I stated in my earlier post, SDSF didn't like me tinkering with it. In that case, the 'menu' is not a menu in the ISPF sense. Rather, SDSF displays a normal panel, and the commands are parsed by the program that displays the panel (not the panel and not ISPF). That would make it more tricky to modify 'correctly'. On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:27:11 -0500, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: From: charl...@mcn.org I know next to nothing about ISPF panel development. Would you and/or the assembled crowd guess that modifying the ISPF panel definitions was a reasonable way to proceed? I'd strongly advise against it. First, customizing a panel means you have to remember to reapply the customization each and every time the operating system is upgraded. Second, it would only buy you what you want on a couple of panels and there are hundreds more that would also need to be customized (or where you still couldn't do what you want). Third, there's a reason the panels were defined as CAPS(ON), so changing them to CAPS(OFF) might allow you to do what you want but could potentially cause other things to break. Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
-Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 19:16 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt But think of a everyday, not to say everyminute command where You - as described by You above - have to go through a two-step process ? This would be fully acceptable by old standards, but today the standard of userfriendlyness/effectiveness is on a much higher level - AFAICS. I think the UNIX/LINUX shells is setting the bar now. Of course - You maybe is arguing from a standpoint of a viable solution in a closed or restricted environment (whether by authority or resource means). But I think it still is a hard sell... Regards, Thomas Berg _ Thomas Berg Specialist A M SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
When Charles wants to execute the FOO command, and he isn't sure if the panel he's on converts commands to uppercase, the best solution (IMO) is for him to enter this: === tsocmd;foo bar This is only 3 characters more than entering this: === tso foo bar To me this is simple, elegant, always works, and requires no customization to any ISPF panels. If however he should forget to do the first command and instead enters the second command, FOO would see that BAR is uppercase. In this case, it would display the warning message. In other words, this is meant to be a fail-safe mechanism and not something he'd do every time. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:28:26 +0100 From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Subject: SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 19:16 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt But think of a everyday, not to say everyminute command where You - as described by You above - have to go through a two-step process ? This would be fully acceptable by old standards, but today the standard of userfriendlyness/effectiveness is on a much higher level - AFAICS. I think the UNIX/LINUX shells is setting the bar now. Of course - You maybe is arguing from a standpoint of a viable solution in a closed or restricted environment (whether by authority or resource means). But I think it still is a hard sell... Regards, Thomas Berg _ Thomas Berg Specialist A M SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Actually, since the command _field_ is CAPS(ON), tsocmd;foo bar will be translated to TSOCMD;FOO BAR _before_ it is processed. At least, this is what my (limited) testing seemed to show. Or perhaps that was meant as a shortcut notation for: === tsocmd === foo bar On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:41:23 -0500, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: When Charles wants to execute the FOO command, and he isn't sure if the panel he's on converts commands to uppercase, the best solution (IMO) is for him to enter this: === tsocmd;foo bar This is only 3 characters more than entering this: === tso foo bar To me this is simple, elegant, always works, and requires no customization to any ISPF panels. If however he should forget to do the first command and instead enters the second command, FOO would see that BAR is uppercase. In this case, it would display the warning message. In other words, this is meant to be a fail-safe mechanism and not something he'd do every time. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:28:26 +0100 From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Subject: SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 19:16 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt But think of a everyday, not to say everyminute command where You - as described by You above - have to go through a two-step process ? This would be fully acceptable by old standards, but today the standard of userfriendlyness/effectiveness is on a much higher level - AFAICS. I think the UNIX/LINUX shells is setting the bar now. Of course - You maybe is arguing from a standpoint of a viable solution in a closed or restricted environment (whether by authority or resource means). But I think it still is a hard sell... Regards, Thomas Berg _ Thomas Berg Specialist A M SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
I've tried this and if it were me, I wouldn't go for it. TSOCMD;foo bar works, for what is requested, that is, the exec gets bar in lower case and both the say before and after the parse command cause the display of lower case bar, but when the exec ends, which is where I have the problem, I am still sitting on the panel titled ISPF Command Shell. I then have to hit PF3 to return to where I was. I realize this is a nit, but if we don't pick them here, then our users pick them when we implement a get around like this. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Birdsall Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Actually, since the command _field_ is CAPS(ON), tsocmd;foo bar will be translated to TSOCMD;FOO BAR _before_ it is processed. At least, this is what my (limited) testing seemed to show. Or perhaps that was meant as a shortcut notation for: === tsocmd === foo bar On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:41:23 -0500, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: When Charles wants to execute the FOO command, and he isn't sure if the panel he's on converts commands to uppercase, the best solution (IMO) is for him to enter this: === tsocmd;foo bar This is only 3 characters more than entering this: === tso foo bar To me this is simple, elegant, always works, and requires no customization to any ISPF panels. If however he should forget to do the first command and instead enters the second command, FOO would see that BAR is uppercase. In this case, it would display the warning message. In other words, this is meant to be a fail-safe mechanism and not something he'd do every time. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:28:26 +0100 From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Subject: SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 19:16 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt But think of a everyday, not to say everyminute command where You - as described by You above - have to go through a two-step process ? This would be fully acceptable by old standards, but today the standard of userfriendlyness/effectiveness is on a much higher level - AFAICS. I think the UNIX/LINUX shells is setting the bar now. Of course - You maybe is arguing from a standpoint of a viable solution in a closed or restricted environment (whether by authority or resource means). But I think it still is a hard sell... Regards, Thomas Berg _ Thomas Berg Specialist A M SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Fair enough, but what do you suggest instead? Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:26:35 -0500 From: charles.har...@ca.com Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu I've tried this and if it were me, I wouldn't go for it. TSOCMD;foo bar works, for what is requested, that is, the exec gets bar in lower case and both the say before and after the parse command cause the display of lower case bar, but when the exec ends, which is where I have the problem, I am still sitting on the panel titled ISPF Command Shell. I then have to hit PF3 to return to where I was. I realize this is a nit, but if we don't pick them here, then our users pick them when we implement a get around like this. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Birdsall Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Actually, since the command _field_ is CAPS(ON), tsocmd;foo bar will be translated to TSOCMD;FOO BAR _before_ it is processed. At least, this is what my (limited) testing seemed to show. Or perhaps that was meant as a shortcut notation for: === tsocmd === foo bar On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:41:23 -0500, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: When Charles wants to execute the FOO command, and he isn't sure if the panel he's on converts commands to uppercase, the best solution (IMO) is for him to enter this: === tsocmd;foo bar This is only 3 characters more than entering this: === tso foo bar To me this is simple, elegant, always works, and requires no customization to any ISPF panels. If however he should forget to do the first command and instead enters the second command, FOO would see that BAR is uppercase. In this case, it would display the warning message. In other words, this is meant to be a fail-safe mechanism and not something he'd do every time. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:28:26 +0100 From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Subject: SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 19:16 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt But think of a everyday, not to say everyminute command where You - as described by You above - have to go through a two-step process ? This would be fully acceptable by old standards, but today the standard of userfriendlyness/effectiveness is on a much higher level - AFAICS. I think the UNIX/LINUX shells is setting the bar now. Of course - You maybe is arguing from a standpoint of a viable solution in a closed or restricted environment (whether by authority or resource means). But I think it still is a hard sell... Regards, Thomas Berg _ Thomas Berg Specialist A M SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
That's the problem. I've fought this battle before and can't figure out the winning move. There's no easy solution. Some are better than others and some are near impossible to do due to policies in effect at one's site, etc. I would really love to see the ISPF tool changed to support lower case. That's work for the people at IBM, though as others have indicated and with whom I agree, it should have been done up front. No one I know lives in a black and white world, there is plenty of color out there, so why are we limited to upper only when we could upper, lower and mixed. I guess the bottom line is that one must chose one's bed and then lie in it. Either one customizes the ISPF panels as needed, or uses the TSOCMD process or invents their own, any way you look at it, someone isn't going to like what you do and someone will end up having to live with it. How's that for sitting on the fence? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Salt Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Fair enough, but what do you suggest instead? Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:26:35 -0500 From: charles.har...@ca.com Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu I've tried this and if it were me, I wouldn't go for it. TSOCMD;foo bar works, for what is requested, that is, the exec gets bar in lower case and both the say before and after the parse command cause the display of lower case bar, but when the exec ends, which is where I have the problem, I am still sitting on the panel titled ISPF Command Shell. I then have to hit PF3 to return to where I was. I realize this is a nit, but if we don't pick them here, then our users pick them when we implement a get around like this. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Birdsall Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Actually, since the command _field_ is CAPS(ON), tsocmd;foo bar will be translated to TSOCMD;FOO BAR _before_ it is processed. At least, this is what my (limited) testing seemed to show. Or perhaps that was meant as a shortcut notation for: === tsocmd === foo bar On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:41:23 -0500, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: When Charles wants to execute the FOO command, and he isn't sure if the panel he's on converts commands to uppercase, the best solution (IMO) is for him to enter this: === tsocmd;foo bar This is only 3 characters more than entering this: === tso foo bar To me this is simple, elegant, always works, and requires no customization to any ISPF panels. If however he should forget to do the first command and instead enters the second command, FOO would see that BAR is uppercase. In this case, it would display the warning message. In other words, this is meant to be a fail-safe mechanism and not something he'd do every time. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:28:26 +0100 From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Subject: SV: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Dave Salt Skickat: den 2 mars 2010 19:16 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt But think of a everyday, not to say everyminute command where You - as described by You above - have to go through a two-step process ? This would be fully acceptable by old standards, but today the standard of userfriendlyness/effectiveness is on a much higher level - AFAICS. I think the UNIX/LINUX shells is setting the bar now. Of course - You maybe is arguing from a standpoint of a viable solution in a closed or restricted environment (whether by authority or resource means). But I think it still
Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
How about another approach /* rexx */ Do while Parm = '' | Parm = 'PARM' say 'Enter foo PARM' Parse External Parm End say Parm exit 0 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Salt Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Perhaps a better alternative would be to modify your REXX procedure to check the input argument and see if it's all uppercase. If it is, your REXX procedure could display a message (e.g. You forgot to enter this command on the TSOCMD panel) and then display the TSO command panel so the command can be re-entered? From: thomas.b...@swedbank.se Are Your serious ? Compared to the only other alternative I've heard so far (i.e. customizing panels), yes, I'm deadly serious. And it would be extremely easy to do. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html _ Stay in touch. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Disclaimer: This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. This e-mail expresses views only of the sender, which are not to be attributed to Rite Aid Corporation and may not be copied or distributed without this statement. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SV: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:30:55 -0500, Pete Hartung wrote: How about another approach /* rexx */ Do while Parm = '' | Parm = 'PARM' say 'Enter foo PARM' Parse External Parm End say Parm exit 0 And that introduces two additional transactions, one to enter the Parm and one to clear the funky ***. For the customer, there's no right answer. For IBM, the answer is obvious. When the command is TSO, retrieve the original, unmodified text of the command and issue that to the Command Processor. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
I suspect this has been covered before but my search yields lots of results but not the answer to this particular question. Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something similar to Option === TSO FOO bar And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather than 'BAR'? Charles Mills -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Charles, Is FOO a REXX EXEC or a CLIST. They are not the same. REXX is one command set and processor and CLIST is a completely different command set and processor. With respect to your question, I have never been successful getting lower case passed to a CLIST however, I have never had a problem getting lower case passed to a REXX EXEC. Chuck -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 11:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? I suspect this has been covered before but my search yields lots of results but not the answer to this particular question. Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something similar to Option === TSO FOO bar And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather than 'BAR'? Charles Mills -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Use PARSE ARG instead of ARG (which defaults to PARSE UPPER ARG). Jim Horne Systems Programmer Large Systems Engineering Messaging NC4IT Lowe's Companies, Inc. 1000 Lowe's Boulevard Mooresville, NC 704-758-5354 jim.ho...@lowes.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:22 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? I suspect this has been covered before but my search yields lots of results but not the answer to this particular question. Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something similar to Option === TSO FOO bar And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather than 'BAR'? Charles Mills -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous disclosure. If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you are not authorized to intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or disseminate this message. If you have erroneously received this communication, please notify the sender immediately by phone (704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy all copies of this message (electronic, paper, or otherwise). Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:22:11 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something similar to
Option === TSO FOO bar
And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather than
'BAR'?
Depends on the command line. In EDIT, for example, which naturally
deals with mixed case data, it works. Most other panels specify that
the command line (and other text entry fields) are to be converted
on input.
I deem it a design flaw that the case conversion is performed before
the TSO escape is recognized, rather than after. Isn't this
handled by the input routine, not by code in the various panels?
This design choice should be considered Overcome by Events, even
outside Rexx, since the widespread adoption of Unix System Services:
Option +++ TSO ALLOCATE path('/dev/null')
... although it was ever problematic with commands such as SEND.
PMR, anyone? (Expect WAD!)
-- gil
--
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Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Use PARSE ARG instead of ARG (which defaults to PARSE UPPER ARG). That's only part of the solution. ISPF maps everything to upper-case, by default. So: === tso foo bar is passed as: FOO BAR to the command processor - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Let me be more specific. I have a dataset that is allocated to SYSEXEC. It has a member FOO consisting (in its entirety) of /* Rexx */ say Arg(1) parse arg tt say tt When I enter Command === tso foo bar The output is BAR BAR *** What am I missing? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Use PARSE ARG instead of ARG (which defaults to PARSE UPPER ARG). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Charles, I copied your statements into a new member in my REXX PDS and executed it and I got: File Edit Edit_Settings Menu Utilities FOOHARCH03.REXX.EXEC(FOO) - 01.00 Command === tso foo bar ** * Top 01 /* Rexx */ 02 say Arg(1) 03 parse arg tt 04 say tt ** Botto bar bar *** Seems to work fine for me. Also, the PDS into which I placed it was allocated to SYSEXEC and not SYSPROC. Chuck -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Let me be more specific. I have a dataset that is allocated to SYSEXEC. It has a member FOO consisting (in its entirety) of /* Rexx */ say Arg(1) parse arg tt say tt When I enter Command === tso foo bar The output is BAR BAR *** What am I missing? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Use PARSE ARG instead of ARG (which defaults to PARSE UPPER ARG). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Ah. Right you are. From the main menu or edit *file panel* it works as I
described but from within the editor itself I get
bar
bar
***
G. Yes, exactly, as you might have guessed, my requirement has to do
with UNIX files. I can see IBM's possible backward compatibility issue here
but isn't this something an ISPF option could solve?
Using RETRIEVE I can see that the issue is indeed in ISPF itself, not the
TSO command.
G. Or did I say that?
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:22:11 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something similar
to
Option === TSO FOO bar
And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather than
'BAR'?
Depends on the command line. In EDIT, for example, which naturally
deals with mixed case data, it works. Most other panels specify that
the command line (and other text entry fields) are to be converted
on input.
I deem it a design flaw that the case conversion is performed before
the TSO escape is recognized, rather than after. Isn't this
handled by the input routine, not by code in the various panels?
This design choice should be considered Overcome by Events, even
outside Rexx, since the widespread adoption of Unix System Services:
Option +++ TSO ALLOCATE path('/dev/null')
... although it was ever problematic with commands such as SEND.
PMR, anyone? (Expect WAD!)
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Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Seems to work fine for me. Also, the PDS into which I placed it was allocated to SYSEXEC and not SYSPROC. As Paul pointed out, since EDIT handles mixed case, it works there. Try it from the Option Line at any of the ISPF/PDF utilities (usually 3.something). - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
OT to my real question but okay, I guess I was imprecise. I used CLIST to mean some script invocable as a command from TSO (and BTW written in the Rexx language) -- not to mean the CLIST language itself. I do know the difference. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hardee, Charles H Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Charles, Is FOO a REXX EXEC or a CLIST. They are not the same. REXX is one command set and processor and CLIST is a completely different command set and processor. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Yeah, I just tried it from the ISPF main menu and I got upper case for
both of the say statements.
I second that Grrr, Grrr!
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Ah. Right you are. From the main menu or edit *file panel* it works as I
described but from within the editor itself I get
bar
bar
***
G. Yes, exactly, as you might have guessed, my requirement has to do
with UNIX files. I can see IBM's possible backward compatibility issue
here
but isn't this something an ISPF option could solve?
Using RETRIEVE I can see that the issue is indeed in ISPF itself, not
the
TSO command.
G. Or did I say that?
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:22:11 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something
similar
to
Option === TSO FOO bar
And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather
than
'BAR'?
Depends on the command line. In EDIT, for example, which naturally
deals with mixed case data, it works. Most other panels specify that
the command line (and other text entry fields) are to be converted
on input.
I deem it a design flaw that the case conversion is performed before
the TSO escape is recognized, rather than after. Isn't this
handled by the input routine, not by code in the various panels?
This design choice should be considered Overcome by Events, even
outside Rexx, since the widespread adoption of Unix System Services:
Option +++ TSO ALLOCATE path('/dev/null')
... although it was ever problematic with commands such as SEND.
PMR, anyone? (Expect WAD!)
--
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Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
I figured that, but being a support person I have learned to always ask the obvious. You sometimes get surprised by the answer. In fact, OT, this weekend I was working at a fundraiser pancake breakfast and they were having problems making coffee in a big 100-cup electric pot. No one could figure out why the coffee was taking so long to make and after about 45 minutes they only had tan colored water. I looked at the guy making coffee and simply asked, did you start with cold water or warm water? You see, those pots only work if you start with cold. Bet you can never guess what he started with :) If you should find an answer to the issue of case, let us all know. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? OT to my real question but okay, I guess I was imprecise. I used CLIST to mean some script invocable as a command from TSO (and BTW written in the Rexx language) -- not to mean the CLIST language itself. I do know the difference. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hardee, Charles H Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? Charles, Is FOO a REXX EXEC or a CLIST. They are not the same. REXX is one command set and processor and CLIST is a completely different command set and processor. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On 1 March 2010 13:14, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: Using RETRIEVE I can see that the issue is indeed in ISPF itself, not the TSO command. G. Or did I say that? Indeed you did. This is just another of the many TSO things that ISPF has willfully or negligently broken over the decades. ISPF has never seen itself as just another TSO app, but rather as some kind of environment under which everything should run, and which has its own command syntax and terminal handling rules. And one must grudgingly admit that they've succeeded; many - perhaps most - users think of ISPF as TSO, and option 6 as some kind of command mode. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Translation to uppercase is almost always performed by the ISPF panel rather
than the program that displays the panel. This is because panel attributes
default to CAPS(ON) unless specifically stated otherwise (which most panel
developers don't do). So, most panels translate all input to uppercase even
before the CLIST (in this case FOO) even gets called.
One way around this is to go to a panel where the command line is known to
support lowercase characters, such as Edit or SimpList. The command could even
be stored in a SimpList object list so it doesn't need to be remembered or
reentered. Another way is to enter TSOCMD, as this takes you to a panel where
TSO commands are *expected* to be entered, and therefore all syntax of TSO
commands (e.g. mixed case, longer lengths, etc) are fully supported.
I personally wouldn't call it a design flaw that ISPF panels translate input to
uppercase. In the vast majority of cases, translation to uppercase is exactly
what the panel designer wants to happen. Consider a panel that supports many
commands (e.g. DOIT, FINDIT, CHGIT, etc). The panel does not support Doit or
fInDiT or CHGit, so the dialog developer wants all commands to automatically be
converted to uppercase. The dialog developer is only concerned about how HIS
panel works, and he's not at all concerned how FOO works or any other
procedures that someone might happen to call from his panel.
Should he be concerned? Well, that's something that could be taken up with the
dialog developer. With a little extra effort he could support lowercase
characters, just as he could also support TSO commands that won't fit on a
single command line. In other words, he could design all of his panels with
command lines that extend over 3 lines, just in case someone wants to call
FOO and pass it a long string of parameters. But this would mean wasting a lot
of space on every ISPF panel, so the disadvantages of doing this would far
outweigh the advantages.
Most ISPF panels are designed only to do what THAT particular panel needs them
to do, and not what FOO or other procedures might want them to do. Despite
this, the vast majority of procedures can successfully be called from the vast
majority of ISPF panels. This is because the vast majority of procedures don't
expect mixed case characters and can successfully fit on a single command line.
In the rare cases where this isn't true, the person who wants to execute the
procedure needs to go to a place that's specifically designed for such a
procedure to be executed.
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:35:14 -0600
From: paulgboul...@aim.com
Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:22:11 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
Is there a way ***from the ISPF command line*** to type something similar to
Option === TSO FOO bar
And have FOO (which is assumed to be a Rexx CLIST) see 'bar' rather than
'BAR'?
Depends on the command line. In EDIT, for example, which naturally
deals with mixed case data, it works. Most other panels specify that
the command line (and other text entry fields) are to be converted
on input.
I deem it a design flaw that the case conversion is performed before
the TSO escape is recognized, rather than after. Isn't this
handled by the input routine, not by code in the various panels?
This design choice should be considered Overcome by Events, even
outside Rexx, since the widespread adoption of Unix System Services:
Option +++ TSO ALLOCATE path('/dev/null')
... although it was ever problematic with commands such as SEND.
PMR, anyone? (Expect WAD!)
-- gil
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_
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Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
I have a different point of view on this. The way I see it is that ISPF is designed first and foremost to run ISPF applications. It's not designed to run TSO, UNIX, DOS commands, or anything else. The vast majority of ISPF applications are not case sensitive and have no need to be. By default, ISPF converts all input to uppercase. For ISPF dialog developers, this is good. The words vast majority and default go hand-in-hand, and IBM came up with the correct default. Three cheers for IBM for getting it right! Let's say you're in an ISPF application and you want to execute a TSO command. The ISPF designers could have said tough; this is ISPF not TSO, if you want to execute a TSO command you have to get out of ISPF. But they didn't do that; instead, they created option 6 (as well as TSOCMD), which takes you to a panel in ISPF where TSO commands are fully supported. Three cheers once again for IBM, because once again they got it right! But what if you don't want to be bothered getting out of the ISPF panel you're in and going to option 6 to execute a TSO command? Well, IBM took it a step further and created an ISPF command called 'TSO'. This command lets you enter 'TSO' followed by a TSO command on any ISPF panel (subject to certain limitations). This is yet another excellent design decision, so once again 3 more cheers for IBM! Unfortunately, all this flexibility has given some people the impression they can execute any TSO command on any ISPF panel, and expect it to work. But remember that most ISPF panels default to CAPS(ON), so if you need to execute a TSO command that requires mixed case characters then unfortunately you have to go to a panel that supports mixed case characters (e.g. option 6). I agree this is a minor inconvenience, but overall the ability to enter TSO commands within ISPF is quite remarkable. Hmmm, maybe I should try entering a DOS command in Windows Notepad and see how well that works... ;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:30:56 -0500 From: t...@harminc.net Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu On 1 March 2010 13:14, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: Using RETRIEVE I can see that the issue is indeed in ISPF itself, not the TSO command. G. Or did I say that? Indeed you did. This is just another of the many TSO things that ISPF has willfully or negligently broken over the decades. ISPF has never seen itself as just another TSO app, but rather as some kind of environment under which everything should run, and which has its own command syntax and terminal handling rules. And one must grudgingly admit that they've succeeded; many - perhaps most - users think of ISPF as TSO, and option 6 as some kind of command mode. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:34:41 -0500, Dave Salt wrote: The vast majority of ISPF applications are not case sensitive and have no need to be. By default, ISPF converts all input to uppercase. For ISPF dialog developers, this is good. The words vast majority and default go hand-in-hand, and IBM came up with the correct default. Three cheers for IBM for getting it right! Actually, no. The vast majority of ISPF applications _are_ case sensitive (although they don't need to be). If they were case insensitive, there'd be no need to convert their input to upper case. Let's say you're in an ISPF application and you want to execute a TSO command. The ISPF designers could have said tough; this is ISPF not TSO, if you want to execute a TSO command you have to get out of ISPF. But they didn't do that; instead, they created option 6 (as well as TSOCMD), which takes you to a panel in ISPF where TSO commands are fully supported. Three cheers once again for IBM, because once again they got it right! And option 6 passes its argument asis, which is right. But what if you don't want to be bothered getting out of the ISPF panel you're in and going to option 6 to execute a TSO command? Well, IBM took it a step further and created an ISPF command called 'TSO'. This command lets you enter 'TSO' followed by a TSO command on any ISPF panel (subject to certain limitations). This is yet another excellent design decision, so once again 3 more cheers for IBM! And here, I'd like someone to confirm or refute my conjecture that 'TSO' is detected and handled by the input processor, not by the code specific to the panel. That is, does each panel supporting the 'TSO' command need to contain logic such as: SELECT WHEN COMMAND=='TSO' then issue TSO command string; ... or does it happen automatically? Unfortunately, all this flexibility has given some people the impression they can execute any TSO command on any ISPF panel, and expect it to work. But remember that most ISPF panels default to CAPS(ON), so if you need to execute a TSO command that requires mixed case characters then unfortunately you have to go to a panel that supports mixed case characters (e.g. option 6). I agree this is a minor inconvenience, but overall the ability to enter TSO commands within ISPF is quite remarkable. If the 'TSO' command is processed by the input routine and not by the individual panel code, it would be a minor change to swap the order of detecting 'TSO' to before rather than after conversion to upper case. That would make processing of the 'TSO' command not only correct, but consistent among all panels. Otherwise, it would be only a slightly greater change to move the 'TSO' recognition to the input processor, get it to work consistently among all panels, and spare panel developers the chore of checking for 'TSO'. Hmmm, maybe I should try entering a DOS command in Windows Notepad and see how well that works... ;-) I see 'TSO' as an accommodation to the fundamental limition of ISPF. In Windows, it's easy enough to open a command window (or several) while editing a file (or several) with WordPad without disrupting one's edit session(s) and Copy and Paste among the WordPad and command windows. If ISPF had this facility, there'd be little point in being able to issue a TSO command from its command line. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:47:12 -0500, Dave Salt wrote: One way around this is to go to a panel where the command line is known to support lowercase characters, such as Edit or SimpList. The command could even be stored in a SimpList object list so it doesn't need to be remembered or reentered. Another way is to enter TSOCMD, as this takes you to a panel where TSO commands are *expected* to be entered, and therefore all syntax of TSO commands (e.g. mixed case, longer lengths, etc) are fully supported. Unfortunately: o TSOCMD hides the application (such as EDIT) from which I issue the TSOCMD, depriving me of the opportunity to Copy and Paste from the EDIT session toe the ISPF Command Shell. o And the TSOCMD screen is designed poorly. If my screen is formatted to any width greater than 80, the ISPF Command Shell formats the input area not as a single field, but as 3 fields, severely limiting my ability to insert text within a line. In any case, the choice of input field size is an accommodation to the limitations of the 3270. Programmers' expectations have been raised by prevailing desktop systems where text entry fields generally scroll to accommodate any amount of data the programmer types without squandering screen area (consider the URL window of most web browsers). Wouldn't it be great to have an ISPF successor that used a web browser as a display server, supporting scrolling input fields, etc.? Sure, the design target of ISPF was 3270, but most programmers have better display facilities on their desktops nowadays. But I don't much care. All my data sets are NFS-exported, and I can use Solaris or OS X tools on them as I choose. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
Sure has a lot of (thoughtful) rants for a guy that doesn't much care ... :0) Shane ... On Tue, Mar 2nd, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: mutter, grumble, bah-humbug ... But I don't much care. All my data sets are NFS-exported, and I can use Solaris or OS X tools on them as I choose. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
try entering a DOS command in Windows Notepad Notepad is a particularly minimal editor; hardly a good comparison to a product that costs $$$ per month. DOS and other sorts of commands (FTP, Web, etc.) may be issued from within my Windows text editor of choice, the terrific and free NoteTab Light. I say you can talk all you want about ISPF and this-and-that and whatever: the fact is that the TSO command is unusable for a great number of situations (most panels in conjunction with most UNIX files) and therefore is broken in design. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 6:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line? On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:34:41 -0500, Dave Salt wrote: Hmmm, maybe I should try entering a DOS command in Windows Notepad and see how well that works... ;-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
From: charl...@mcn.org the fact is that the TSO command is unusable for a great number of situations (most panels in conjunction with most UNIX files) and therefore is broken in design. This is where we see things differently. From my perspective there is NO situation where TSO commands are unusable. At any time you can enter TSOCMD on any ISPF command line and it takes you to a panel where TSO commands are fully supported. The fact that you can't always use the nifty little shortcut of entering TSO followed directly by the command you want to execute on whatever panel you happen to be on doesn't mean the design is broken. It just means there are limitations as to what you can do on panels that aren't specifically designed for entering TSO commands. IBM could take the 'TSO' command prefix away, and force people to always go to the correct panel for entering TSO commands. But thankfully they haven't done this yet (and hopefully they won't, even if all the grumbling continues). Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html _ Introducing Windows® phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708122 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mixed case to a CLIST from ISPF command line?
From: paulgboul...@aim.com Actually, no. The vast majority of ISPF applications _are_ case sensitive (although they don't need to be). If they were case insensitive, there'd be no need to convert their input to upper case. I think we're just using a different interpretation of 'case sensitive'. Most ISPF panels convert input to uppercase, so dialogs test for uppercase commands. But if ISPF panels converted input to lowercase, dialogs would simply test for lowercase commands. In other words, dialogs couldn't care less what case something was entered in, as long as it's converted to some sort of standard format that the dialogs can easily test for. This is completely unlike UNIX, where commands cannot be converted to uppercase or lowercase because they're case sensitive. But ISPF commands are not case sensitive, so it's okay to convert them to uppercase or lowercase (as long as it's known in advance which way they're being converted). I'd like someone to confirm or refute my conjecture that 'TSO' is detected and handled by the input processor, not by the code specific to the panel. Yes you are correct; individual ISPF panels don't generally have logic to detect and process ISPF commands. This includes 'TSO' (which is an ISPF command), as well as other ISPF commands such as SPLIT, SWAP, HELP (etc). These and other ISPF commands are all processed automatically by ISPF, and are not processed by the panel. In other words, there is generally no logic in either the panel or the program that displayed the panel that processes regular ISPF commands. There are exceptions, but discussing that would be misleading for the purpose of this discussion. If the 'TSO' command is processed by the input routine and not by the individual panel code, it would be a minor change to swap the order of detecting 'TSO' to before rather than after conversion to upper case. That would make processing of the 'TSO' command not only correct, but consistent among all panels. When a command is entered on a command line, ISPF checks to see if the command is recognized as an ISPF command. If it is (for example, if it's SPLIT, SWAP, HELP, TSO, etc) then ISPF processes the command and the underlying dialog (e.g. the ISPF panel) is completely unaware a command was even entered. If the command isn't recognized by ISPF (e.g. if a user enters DOG, FISH, DOIT, etc) the command is passed through to the dialog. The dialog can then process the command, or reject it if the command is unknown. Suppose 'TsO' is entered on a command line that has (or defaults) to CAPS(ON). I'm guessing (but not 100% sure) that the panel attributes cause the command to be uppercased to 'TSO' even *before* the data stream is sent to the mainframe for processing. If this is true, it means even ISPF itself has no idea what was actually entered on the command line, and therefore has no possible opportunity to preserve the original case of the command. If this assumption is wrong I'd think it would be fairly easy for ISPF to preserve the original case of the command. But as this isn't being done, I have to conclude that the order of processing is something like this: 1) A user enters a command on a command line and presses an interrupt key (e.g. ENTER). 2) The data on the panel is pre-processed by the terminal (or emulator) based on the attributes of the panel; e.g. if the command line is defined as (or defaults) to CAPS(ON), the command is converted to uppercase. 3) The data stream is then sent to the mainframe, where it is inspected by ISPF. 4) ISPF converts the first 'word' of the command to uppercase (just in case it was entered on a command line that isn't defined as CAPS(ON)). 5) If the command is recognized by ISPF (e.g. SPLIT,SWAP, HELP, TSO, etc) then it's processed by ISPF. Otherwise, ISPF passes the command through to the underlying dialog (e.g. the procedure that displayed the ISPF panel). I don't know anything about data streams and how they're passed back and forth between terminals and the mainframe, but it would certainly be interesting if someone on this list could confirm whether commands are converted to uppercase before they're sent to the mainframe? In other words, if step 2 above is incorrect and no conversion takes place prior to the data stream being sent to the mainframe, then maybe there is an opportunity for ISPF to preserve the original case of the TSO command? In Windows, it's easy enough to open a command window (or several) while editing a file (or several) with WordPad without disrupting one's edit session(s) and Copy and Paste among the WordPad and command windows. Isn't this the same as splitting the screen and going into ISPF option 6? In other words, you don't have to disrupt whatever session you happen to be in, and can have a command window where TSO commands can be entered? If ISPF had this facility, there'd be little point in being able to issue a TSO
