Re: OT to my collegues
In 1317597476.40615.yahoomail...@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 10/02/2011 at 04:17 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Yeah, but I am so cross-platformed, sometimes my old memory cells has to remember which ..lol Or cross released. Sometimes I try to use a feature that isn't there yet. Oh, yeah, they haven't upgraded in a decade :-( -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
IBM manuals assume a certain level of knowledge in order to understand them. This is correct. The ABC's go a bit deeper. I agree that we should help people more by pointing them to the docs (in a nice way). But one thing that I treasure, being basically a newbie myself compared to most of you, is that communal feeling. When asked in the right way, and if you know we are willing to do the research on our own, you guys offer insights that can never be expressed in any manual. To make it personal, I really like talking to some of you. Regards/Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 2:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Shmuel, I dont mind helping anyone, but there are two issues, one that person will never learn to be self-reliant for problems and secondly sometimes I just have the time to hand-hold, especially when IBM explained much better than I can because its their product. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea00afc0ed...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 09/29/2011 at 03:41 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive But isn't, at least not in windoze. I don't have a link, but Abbott and Costello do Windows is hilarious. Who's on First? Try here: http://funnyjokesnpics.blogspot.com/2009/11/abbott-costello-computers.ht ml -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Lindy, I totally agree with you. Someone once told me that you have be taught to read the IBM manuals. Maybe thats the problem I see. Sometimes when your in the 'forest' you cant see the trees Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 7:44 AM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues IBM manuals assume a certain level of knowledge in order to understand them. This is correct. The ABC's go a bit deeper. I agree that we should help people more by pointing them to the docs (in a nice way). But one thing that I treasure, being basically a newbie myself compared to most of you, is that communal feeling. When asked in the right way, and if you know we are willing to do the research on our own, you guys offer insights that can never be expressed in any manual. To make it personal, I really like talking to some of you. Regards/Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 2:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Shmuel, I dont mind helping anyone, but there are two issues, one that person will never learn to be self-reliant for problems and secondly sometimes I just have the time to hand-hold, especially when IBM explained much better than I can because its their product. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Lyndy, Don#39;t forget about the message call your systems programmer argh#39; Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
when i grow up, i want to be a systems programmer. :-) a real one, not just some sort of admin type of guy. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Lyndy, Don#39;t forget about the message call your systems programmer argh#39; Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Amen, Lindy. Dont be afraid to test/experiment on a sandbox system this is how one learns ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 12:38 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues when i grow up, i want to be a systems programmer. :-) a real one, not just some sort of admin type of guy. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Lyndy, Don't forget about the message call your systems programmer argh' Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Yep Exec,Exec2 and starting writing Rexx when it first came out on VM, then TSO,MVS,Netview and Object Rexx Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:23 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues In 1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 09/29/2011 at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Shmuel, I dont mind helping anyone, but there are two issues, one that person will never learn to be self-reliant for problems and secondly sometimes I just have the time to hand-hold, especially when IBM explained much better than I can because its their product. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:32 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues In of98ae8349.26cab4de-onc125791b.00186155-c125791b.001bf...@deutscherring.de, on 09/30/2011 at 07:05 AM, Michael Klaeschen michael.klaesc...@deutscherring.de said: One day I had a really big problem. Of course, it was my fault, I had forget some details and been too stupid before, etc pp... . But dear god likes me and therefore I got help. There's a difference between helping you and doing your job for you. Scott's complaint was about people who want a baby-sitter, not a mentor. I will not underestimate that persons' effort for learning and gratitude for getting help. Exactly; that person *wanted* to learn, unlike the people Scott complained about. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
The point was it wasn't CLIST, as your post stated. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 16:11:40 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Yep Exec,Exec2 and starting writing Rexx when it first came out on VM, then TSO,MVS,Netview and Object Rexx Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:23 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues In 1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 09/29/2011 at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Ted, Yeah, but I am so cross-platformed, sometimes my old memory cells has to remember which ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 7:15 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues The point was it wasn't CLIST, as your post stated. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 16:11:40 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Yep Exec,Exec2 and starting writing Rexx when it first came out on VM, then TSO,MVS,Netview and Object Rexx Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:23 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues In 1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 09/29/2011 at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
In 1317328017.55479.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 09/29/2011 at 01:26 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Yes. It were ever thus. Most people in the field seem to rely on urban legends rather than the documentation. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
In 1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 09/29/2011 at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea00afc0ed...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 09/29/2011 at 03:41 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive But isn't, at least not in windoze. I don't have a link, but Abbott and Costello do Windows is hilarious. Who's on First? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
In 4e851657.1080...@ync.net, on 09/29/2011 at 08:07 PM, Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net said: As long as we have the current liberal and politically correct press, public ridicule will remain stifled. As long as we have the current right wing politically correct media, public ridicule will remain stifled. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
In of98ae8349.26cab4de-onc125791b.00186155-c125791b.001bf...@deutscherring.de, on 09/30/2011 at 07:05 AM, Michael Klaeschen michael.klaesc...@deutscherring.de said: One day I had a really big problem. Of course, it was my fault, I had forget some details and been too stupid before, etc pp... . But dear god likes me and therefore I got help. There's a difference between helping you and doing your job for you. Scott's complaint was about people who want a baby-sitter, not a mentor. I will not underestimate that persons' effort for learning and gratitude for getting help. Exactly; that person *wanted* to learn, unlike the people Scott complained about. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
In 1317402530.12618.yahoomailmob...@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com, on 09/30/2011 at 10:08 AM, Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com said: APPLE is supposedly famous for ease of use Of course, but that doesn't mean that it really is easy to use. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Scott Ford wrote: Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Shhh, you will damage the few working brain cells we old bald greybeards have. Anyway, one good thing about getting old - you have fewer braincells to worry about... :-D Ok, What am I supposed to do with all these junk space wasting files: README.txt, $read.me, $lookmeup, man, etc? Hmmm, do I really need to read up those 'Program Directory' or 'Migration Guide z/OS vX to vY'? They're s last century... :-D ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Scott Ford Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think[.] More and more nowadays, it seems people are not being taught *how* to think. They're constantly being told *what* to think, but -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
On 29 Sep 2011 18:08:36 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: ---snip-- Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. unsnip As long as we have the current liberal and politically correct press, public ridicule will remain stifled. Public ridicule and scorn are alive and well. There just are different targets. My bosses were into asking if you have read the manual and now that we can get the IBM manuals on-line it is easier. I just wish the other vendors were as open. Clark Morris Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
On 29 Sep 2011 13:57:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think On the other hand, it could be like the manuals for my Canon SX20 where the nice pocket size getting started manual doesn't ell you how to use all of the functions and there is no way to easily print the full PDF so that you end up with a manual that you can carry with you. Thus I have yet to really figure how to use manual focus even though it was a major consideration when I bought the camera. Then there is the virtually useless set of papers that came with my LG IPS monitor that were not explicit in the set up instructions and showing of the connectors. I gave up on the first attempt in the evening and it was only through using wikipedia on my wife's computer that I was able to really see how a DVI connector worked. Clark Morris Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:54 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote: Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Not just IBM manuals. ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Clark, I guess I am a little bias, second generation IT, also my second software vendor, this time as a Developer. I would agree the manuals should be transportable, i.e; ipad, iphone, etc. Makes life a lot easier. I had to carry them on CD, ugh.. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues On 29 Sep 2011 13:57:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think On the other hand, it could be like the manuals for my Canon SX20 where the nice pocket size getting started manual doesn't ell you how to use all of the functions and there is no way to easily print the full PDF so that you end up with a manual that you can carry with you. Thus I have yet to really figure how to use manual focus even though it was a major consideration when I bought the camera. Then there is the virtually useless set of papers that came with my LG IPS monitor that were not explicit in the set up instructions and showing of the connectors. I gave up on the first attempt in the evening and it was only through using wikipedia on my wife's computer that I was able to really see how a DVI connector worked. Clark Morris Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:54 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote: Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Not just IBM manuals. ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
I had to carry them on CD, ugh.. Now that makes me smile. I can only wonder what my kids will be telling their kids about how tough they had it back in the days of iPods and all that jazz. -- Donald Grinsell State of Montana 406-444-2983 dgrins...@mt.gov Up until age seventy, to some degree, aging is elective. It's socially determined when you start to feel old. -- Sebastion Junger -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Don, Thats like the slide-rule days before calculators... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Grinsell, Don dgrins...@mt.gov To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues I had to carry them on CD, ugh.. Now that makes me smile. I can only wonder what my kids will be telling their kids about how tough they had it back in the days of iPods and all that jazz. -- Donald Grinsell State of Montana 406-444-2983 dgrins...@mt.gov Up until age seventy, to some degree, aging is elective. It's socially determined when you start to feel old. -- Sebastion Junger -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Rick, I forgot to mention my last go around (recently) with manuals. I got an IPAD last year and while it did come with instructions, the instructions were printed on a folded piece of paper that were printed in 4pt type. Now I will admit to being old but 4 pt type?. So how can anyone install anything, If the instructions are essentially useless? APPLE is supposedly famous for ease of use but 4 pt type? I had to ask a friend to come over to read the instructions. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
--snip-- Thats like the slide-rule days before calculators... --unsnip- Don't knock that old slip-stick. :-) For me it's faster than a calculator! I sometimes tutor high-school kids in math. We start by doing arithmetic on paper and pencil. Then they graduate to using an abacus, then a slip-stick. Only when they've mastered these are they allowed to use calculators. I've found that calculator drops 90-95% after this basic indoctrination. (Fingers are not allowed at any time!) :-) Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Rick, I agree with you 100%. Calculators are great, but sometimes, kids take the easy way out which is a calculator over doing it by hand Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues --snip-- Thats like the slide-rule days before calculators... --unsnip- Don't knock that old slip-stick. :-) For me it's faster than a calculator! I sometimes tutor high-school kids in math. We start by doing arithmetic on paper and pencil. Then they graduate to using an abacus, then a slip-stick. Only when they've mastered these are they allowed to use calculators. I've found that calculator drops 90-95% after this basic indoctrination. (Fingers are not allowed at any time!) :-) Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
OT to my collegues
All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone . john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
I say remove all warnings and let Darwin thin out the species. Of course one could say that you never could really read IBM manuals ... -Original Message- McKown, John Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone . john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- Scott Ford All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: Mullen, Patrick patrick.mul...@gwl.ca Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues I love you guys...I had this CICS sysprog I worked with if you asked him more than once, he wont tell you, said you werent listening, plus in those days CICS 1.4 we had all the module assemlber listenings and PRMs not any more .So I had to learn it the hard way probably like you guys did Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Mullen, Patrick patrick.mul...@gwl.ca To: scott_j_f...@yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:48 PM Subject: RE: OT to my collegues Hi Scott, I'm sure that in most companies in the 1980s, if you as a junior sysprog had continually approached the seniors with queries without first consulting the available manuals, you would not very quickly have progressed in your career. But there certainly were those types around, the ones with loud voices, confident demeanour and sharp dress sense would usually leave to join the big consultancy companies :) I'm not sure if it's more prevalent today, or just more noticeable, now that the Internet has become the Universal Textbook. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: September 29, 2011 3:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote: Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Not just IBM manuals. ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
John, Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. This was an important lesson, always investigate and look Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone . john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:54 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote: Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Not just IBM manuals. ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
The Google search can be a good thing, but take a step further and learn about what your googling ...hey theres a concept.. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Campbell Jay james.l.campb...@irs.gov To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:00 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues May we consider the exponential expansion of the available data ? The Refer to this and that ? And sometimes infuriatingly unclimactic Google search ? Jay Campbell IBM OS Support Section -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
rem it was easier to read a real manual on the train etc. and highlight btw are you sure that's how you spell - collegues Scott Ford scott_j_ford@YAH OO.COMTo Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Mainframe cc Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua Subject .edu Re: OT to my collegues 09/29/2011 04:55 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu John Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. This was an important lesson, always investigate and look Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone . john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Man it aint in hexidecimal you know Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: August Carideo august.cari...@avon.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:09 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues rem it was easier to read a real manual on the train etc. and highlight btw are you sure that's how you spell - collegues Scott Ford scott_j_ford@YAH OO.COM To Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Mainframe cc Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua Subject .edu Re: OT to my collegues 09/29/2011 04:55 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu John Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. This was an important lesson, always investigate and look Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone . john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET
Re: OT to my collegues
Are you a football quarterback too? From: Campbell Jay james.l.campb...@irs.gov To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thu, September 29, 2011 2:00:09 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues May we consider the exponential expansion of the available data ? The Refer to this and that ? And sometimes infuriatingly unclimactic Google search ? Jay Campbell IBM OS Support Section -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: OT to my collegues All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
--snip--- Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think -unsnip-- To paraphrase Robin Williams in one of his film roles: Think ... now there's a helluva concept. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
---snip-- Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. unsnip As long as we have the current liberal and politically correct press, public ridicule will remain stifled. Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Yep, Rick I cannot agree more.. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:04 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues --snip--- Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think -unsnip-- To paraphrase Robin Williams in one of his film roles: Think ... now there's a helluva concept. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
--snip-- All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . ---unsnip-- Both, more's the pity... Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
What about the Forrest Gump line, 'Stupid is as stupid does'. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:07 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues ---snip-- Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka no learning required!) and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled do not use while showering. unsnip As long as we have the current liberal and politically correct press, public ridicule will remain stifled. Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
Rick, We fought for many many years so IBM would document items in the fine manuals. For about 10 years it worked well. Somewhere around the early 1990's IBM reverted to not doing such a good job of maintaining the manuals. Case in point (not the only one for sure but...) The fine COBOL people decided to drop the messages and codes manual. When asked we got the asinine answer that the messages are self documenting (which they were NOT). It took close to to years of asking (I am trying to be nice here) and they (COBOL) finally condescended to document them. The LE people have the same attitude and there are more. IBM is essentially back treading on their promise on documentation. WHile it is I agree a user issue in not reading the fine manuals IBM is starting to hide things again. I am not excusing the people from looking it up but IBM is not holding up their end of the deal entirely either. What might help on both sides if IBM would come up with a decent way of looking up questions in the manuals. If it needs to be a re writing of manuals to better accomplish this or a better way of searching I think it would help all concerned. Ed - Original Message - From: Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:08 PM Subject: Re: OT to my collegues --snip-- All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . ---unsnip-- Both, more's the pity... Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OT to my collegues
As far as I can judge: yes, you are getting older all day long -- and I hope you will continue for a very long time. Come along for a stay, then we can get older together for a couple of days. One day I had a really big problem. Of course, it was my fault, I had forget some details and been too stupid before, etc pp... . But dear god likes me and therefore I got help. And man, was I happy when someone gave me that hint! Why not giving help to others? I am not sure where some list members come from. But I know that in certain areas of this planet a majority of people have not much chance for neither education nor wealth -- which in my eyes correlates pretty fine, especially in regions like India or China. Last year I met young computer science students in Colombo, Sri Lanka. Imagine someone from such part of the world having his or her one and only chance of becoming mainframe system programmer. I will not underestimate that persons' effort for learning and gratitude for getting help. Cheers Michael Von:Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com An: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Datum: 2011-09-29 22:27 Betreff:OT to my collegues Gesendet von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu All, Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals . Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
