Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-20 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In
<6b34aedeeb35274e81437a445900b2d747f...@hdqsrvexcvs.ssfcuad.ssfcu.org>,
on 05/10/2010
   at 05:38 PM, "Ward, Mike S"  said:

>I know the word, but I have never seen it spelled that way. :)

The use of foo and bar as, e.g., variable names, goes back to the
hacker culture at MIT. And, yes, it derives from the acronym you're
thinking of.
 
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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-12 Thread Gerhard Postpischil 

On 5/11/2010 11:16 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

Can you provide an example where the lack of quotes generates an error?
I have never seen one myself, so long as the DSN follows normal DSN
rules.


Source:

//DISASM09 JOB Z904,0012),'GERHARD',CLASS=E,MSGCLASS=C, 


//   MSGLEVEL=1,1),
//  TIME=2,REGION=4096K
//JOBLIB DD DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.ESPLIB
//* 


//*
//** 
 **
//**  ASSEMBLE MODULE TO PRODUCE LISTING 
 **
//** 
 **

//*
//* 

//EXEC  PURGEME 

//* 

//ASM EXEC ASMC,PARM.C='TERM,STMT,NOOBJ,LIST,NODECK', 


//  MEMBER=DISASM09,MAC1=GERHARD.MVS.DISASM
//SYSINDD  DISP=SHR,DSN=GERHARD.MVS.DISASM(DISASM09) 



Produces:

   10 IEF623I SOURCE TEXT CONTAINS UNDEFINED OR ILLEGAL 
CHARACTERS IN THE VALUE FIELD OF THE SYMBOLIC PARAMETER


The assembly works fine when the MAC1 operand is quoted. 




Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-11 Thread Farley, Peter x23353 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Gerhard Postpischil
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 7:40 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?
> 
> Might as well ask why data set names used on PROCs have to be quoted.

I write and use PROC's with symbolic parameter values that have no
quotes at all, and which are used as the value of "DSN=" in a subsequent
DD statement. I do this all the time in my everyday work, and I have
never seen an error like the one you name.

Can you provide an example where the lack of quotes generates an error?
I have never seen one myself, so long as the DSN follows normal DSN
rules.

Peter


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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-11 Thread Gerhard Postpischil 

On 5/10/2010 5:57 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:


//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN='FOO.BAR'


Clearly, but why prohibit cataloguing 'FOO.BAR'?


The DISP requests cataloging, but the quotes specify not to 
catalog (by convention). As the request is self-contradictory, 
the system takes the path of least resistance - let the job run, 
and don't do anything to the catalog. Might as well ask why data 
set names used on PROCs have to be quoted.



Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-10 Thread Rick Fochtman 




Probably from dataset names like 'FOOLISHLY.BARRED', which can't be
effectively processed by CVOL management routines.

   


Clearly, but why prohibit cataloguing 'FOO.BAR'?
 


--
Probably depends on the nature of the trigger mechanism. Without source 
code in front of me, I can't say for sure.


Rick

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-10 Thread Ward, Mike S 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 4:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

On Mon, 10 May 2010 16:33:30 -0500, Rick Fochtman wrote:

>Probably from dataset names like 'FOOLISHLY.BARRED', which can't be
>effectively processed by CVOL management routines.
>
Clearly, but why prohibit cataloguing 'FOO.BAR'?

I know the word, but I have never seen it spelled that way. :)

>
>Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>>concerned, for example, why, when the programmer codes:
>>
>>//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN=FOO.BAR
>>
>>... the data set is catalogued, whereas for:
>>
>>//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN='FOO.BAR'
>>
>>... the JCL C/I changes the disposition to KEEP.  In both cases,
>>identical data set names are created.  In each case the name was
>>acceptable to CVOL.  Why should the C/I make the distinction?
>>CVOL can't be the explanation.  Cui bono?

-- gil

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-10 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Mon, 10 May 2010 16:33:30 -0500, Rick Fochtman wrote:

>Probably from dataset names like 'FOOLISHLY.BARRED', which can't be
>effectively processed by CVOL management routines.
>
Clearly, but why prohibit cataloguing 'FOO.BAR'?

>
>Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>>concerned, for example, why, when the programmer codes:
>>
>>//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN=FOO.BAR
>>
>>... the data set is catalogued, whereas for:
>>
>>//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN='FOO.BAR'
>>
>>... the JCL C/I changes the disposition to KEEP.  In both cases,
>>identical data set names are created.  In each case the name was
>>acceptable to CVOL.  Why should the C/I make the distinction?
>>CVOL can't be the explanation.  Cui bono?

-- gil

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-10 Thread Rick Fochtman 
Probably from dataset names like 'FOOLISHLY.BARRED', which can't be 
effectively processed by CVOL management routines.


Rick

Paul Gilmartin wrote:


On Sat, 8 May 2010 20:27:33 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
 


Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?
 


CVOL.

   


The thread, which you trimmed excessively, as is your bad custom,
concerned, for example, why, when the programmer codes:

   //SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN=FOO.BAR

... the data set is catalogued, whereas for:

   //SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN='FOO.BAR'

... the JCL C/I changes the disposition to KEEP.  In both cases,
identical data set names are created.  In each case the name was
acceptable to CVOL.  Why should the C/I make the distinction?
CVOL can't be the explanation.  Cui bono?

-- gil

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-09 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Sat, 8 May 2010 20:27:33 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
>
>>Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?
>
>CVOL.
>
The thread, which you trimmed excessively, as is your bad custom,
concerned, for example, why, when the programmer codes:

//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN=FOO.BAR

... the data set is catalogued, whereas for:

//SYSUT2  DD  DISP=(,CATLG),DSN='FOO.BAR'

... the JCL C/I changes the disposition to KEEP.  In both cases,
identical data set names are created.  In each case the name was
acceptable to CVOL.  Why should the C/I make the distinction?
CVOL can't be the explanation.  Cui bono?

-- gil

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-09 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In , on 05/06/2010
   at 04:35 PM, Paul Gilmartin  said:

>Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?

CVOL.
 
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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-09 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In , on
05/06/2010
   at 07:53 PM, Tony Harminc  said:

>It's been that way "forever". Since before there were catalogues, I
>believe.

AFAIK catalogs were there ab initio.

>Maybe this predates PDSs, or are they primordial?

Primordial.
 
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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-07 Thread Rick Fochtman 

-


Probably the rule goes back to the CVOL catalogs where the name was
stored level by level and each piece had to be 8 bytes or less in
length.  Bill Fairchild and others are able to give a more accurate
explanation.
 



For a "nutshell" description, that's pretty close, Clark. If anyone is 
truly interested, I had, and may still have, a program that lists a CVOL 
catalog. (First time I ever wrote recursive code, of any kind.) :-)


GDG and ALIAS processing are exeptions to the general rule, but the 
basic catalog is actually a tree-of-lists structure, using TTR pointers 
as links.


If I can find it, I'll gladly share it with anyone who's interested.

Rick

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-07 Thread Thompson, Steve 
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

On Thu, 6 May 2010 18:32:10 -0400, Thompson, Steve wrote:
>>
>>JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
>>the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
>>
>Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?
>
>DOS to MVS migrations would be my guess. When I'm doing one, I make use
of this.
>
I believe you're saying you quote the data set name to
prevent it's being catalogued.  How is this useful?
Is it the only way (or easiest) to prevent cataloguing?


I wasn't addressing the CATALOG issue. Back in the '80s I was actually
cataloging VSE data sets in the MVS Catalog (a USER CAT for this
purpose). Since I have not run many migrations since about 1997 (as
opposed to being involved in the back side cleaning up), I don't know if
it can still be done (long qualifiers, lowercase, etc.). OMVS came along
since then and I really haven't experimented too much with this.

And because of the "DOS" Contamination bit, normally one sets aside 1-8
(I've never seen more than 8) units that are shared between the two
systems. If you don't limit those volumes and they get "actively used"
by both systems (as opposed to specific manual managed file processing),
MVS goes nuts recovering the free space DSCB(s) for those volume's VTOCs
(which happens every time MVS needs to read a contaminated VTOC to get
space).

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Tony Harminc 
On 6 May 2010 19:53, Tony Harminc  wrote:

> It's been that way "forever". Since before there were catalogues, I
> believe. I think the "can't be catalogued if it's quoted" just means
> that the comparison of the DISP=(...CATLG...) is done before the
> syntax check

That came out incomplete... I think I was trying to say something like
DISP=(...CATLG...) prompts a quick check for a quoted DSNAME, rather
than the full check early for catalogue-compliant DSNAME, since the
compliance check is somewhat more complex, with requirements for >=
8-character chunks, each of which starts with an alphanat character,
and so on.

Tony H.

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Clark Morris 
On 6 May 2010 16:53:34 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>On 6 May 2010 17:35, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 May 2010 17:14:07 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:
>
>>>JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
>>>the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
>>>
>> Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?
>
>It's been that way "forever". Since before there were catalogues, I
>believe. I think the "can't be catalogued if it's quoted" just means
>that the comparison of the DISP=(...CATLG...) is done before the
>syntax check

Probably the rule goes back to the CVOL catalogs where the name was
stored level by level and each piece had to be 8 bytes or less in
length.  Bill Fairchild and others are able to give a more accurate
explanation.
>
>> But not in JCL:
>>
>>        3 //STEP0    EXEC  PGM=IEBGENER
>>        4 //SYSPRINT  DD   SYSOUT=(,)
>>        5 //SYSIN     DD   DUMMY
>>        6 //SYSUT1    DD   DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.MACLIB('SPLEVEL')
>>        7 //SYSUT2    DD   SYSOUT=(,)
>>          //*
>>  STMT NO. MESSAGE
>>        6 IEF640I EXCESSIVE NUMBER OF POSITIONAL PARAMETERS IN THE DSNAME 
>> FIELD
>>
>> WTF?
>
>I wasn't imagining that you could quote the member name on its own.
>But then of course what if you want parentheses in your
>(non-partitioned) DSNAME? Sigh... Maybe this predates PDSs, or are
>they primordial?
>
>In any case, the whole thing is effectively moot these days, because
>SMS rejects funny names:
>//DDDD  DSN='Weird&&Funny Characters',
>//  UNIT=SYSALLDA,VOL=SER=ZOSL10,
>//  SPACE=(TRK,(1,1)),DISP=(NEW,KEEP)
>   3 IGD01018I DATA SET Weird&Funny Characters
>HAS A NONSTANDARD DATA SET NAME AND IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE SMS-MANAGED
>   3 IGD301I DATA SET ALLOCATION REQUEST FAILED -
>DATA SET Weird&Funny Characters
>IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ALLOCATION ON SMS-MANAGED VOLUME ZOSL10
>
>and naturally an attempt to bypass SMS with e.g. STORCLAS=NOSMS fails
>differently:
>   3 IGD310I DATA SET ALLOCATION REQUEST FAILED -STORAGE CLASS
>NOSMS SPECIFIED FOR
>DATA SET Weird&Funny Characters
>WHICH IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE SMS-MANAGED
>
>If you are able to allocate on a non-SMS system, you may get the
>original results.
>
>Tony H.
>
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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Thu, 6 May 2010 18:32:10 -0400, Thompson, Steve wrote:
>>
>>JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
>>the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
>>
>Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?
>
>DOS to MVS migrations would be my guess. When I'm doing one, I make use of 
>this.
>
I believe you're saying you quote the data set name to
prevent it's being catalogued.  How is this useful?
Is it the only way (or easiest) to prevent cataloguing?

3 //  SET  Q=
4 //STEP1EXEC  PGM=IEFBR14
5 //XDDDISP=(,CATLG),UNIT=SYSALLDA,SPACE=(CYL,0),
  //DSN=&SYSUID..TEMP.UNQUOTE
  IEFC653I SUBSTITUTION JCL - DISP=(,CATLG),UNIT=SYSALLDA,SPACE=(CYL,0),
6 //YDDDISP=(,CATLG),UNIT=SYSALLDA,SPACE=(CYL,0),
  //  DSN=&Q&SYSUID..TEMP.QUOTED'
  IEFC653I SUBSTITUTION JCL - DISP=(,CATLG),UNIT=SYSALLDA,SPACE=(CYL,0),

 STMT NO. MESSAGE
-
6 IEF648I INVALID DISP FIELD- KEEP SUBSTITUTED
...
IEF142I JOBCARD STEP1 - STEP WAS EXECUTED - COND CODE 
IEF285I   user.TEMP.UNQUOTECATALOGED
IEF285I   VOL SER NOS= TSO009.
IEF285I   user.TEMP.QUOTED KEPT
IEF285I   VOL SER NOS= TSO015.

(User ID obfuscated.)

Interesting -- it's quietly kept, not catalogued.

-- gil

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Tony Harminc 
On 6 May 2010 17:35, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:
> On Thu, 6 May 2010 17:14:07 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:

>>JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
>>the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
>>
> Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?

It's been that way "forever". Since before there were catalogues, I
believe. I think the "can't be catalogued if it's quoted" just means
that the comparison of the DISP=(...CATLG...) is done before the
syntax check

> But not in JCL:
>
>        3 //STEP0    EXEC  PGM=IEBGENER
>        4 //SYSPRINT  DD   SYSOUT=(,)
>        5 //SYSIN     DD   DUMMY
>        6 //SYSUT1    DD   DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.MACLIB('SPLEVEL')
>        7 //SYSUT2    DD   SYSOUT=(,)
>          //*
>  STMT NO. MESSAGE
>        6 IEF640I EXCESSIVE NUMBER OF POSITIONAL PARAMETERS IN THE DSNAME FIELD
>
> WTF?

I wasn't imagining that you could quote the member name on its own.
But then of course what if you want parentheses in your
(non-partitioned) DSNAME? Sigh... Maybe this predates PDSs, or are
they primordial?

In any case, the whole thing is effectively moot these days, because
SMS rejects funny names:
//DDDD  DSN='Weird&&Funny Characters',
//  UNIT=SYSALLDA,VOL=SER=ZOSL10,
//  SPACE=(TRK,(1,1)),DISP=(NEW,KEEP)
   3 IGD01018I DATA SET Weird&Funny Characters
HAS A NONSTANDARD DATA SET NAME AND IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE SMS-MANAGED
   3 IGD301I DATA SET ALLOCATION REQUEST FAILED -
DATA SET Weird&Funny Characters
IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ALLOCATION ON SMS-MANAGED VOLUME ZOSL10

and naturally an attempt to bypass SMS with e.g. STORCLAS=NOSMS fails
differently:
   3 IGD310I DATA SET ALLOCATION REQUEST FAILED -STORAGE CLASS
NOSMS SPECIFIED FOR
DATA SET Weird&Funny Characters
WHICH IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE SMS-MANAGED

If you are able to allocate on a non-SMS system, you may get the
original results.

Tony H.

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Thompson, Steve 
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

On Thu, 6 May 2010 17:14:07 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:

>On 6 May 2010 15:10, Kirk Talman wrote:
>> going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a STOW
>> to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.  You
>> just can't use those names in JCL.
>
>JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
>the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
>
Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?



DOS to MVS migrations would be my guess. When I'm doing one, I make use of this.

However, many VSE shops today are using names such as MVS would use because of 
the use of VSAM. So the need for this was dying -- until you get to OE/OMVS and 
having to use non-MVS/DOS/VM file systems.

Regards,
Steve Thompson
 -- Opinions expressed by this poster may not reflect those of poster's 
employer --

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Thu, 6 May 2010 17:14:07 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:

>On 6 May 2010 15:10, Kirk Talman wrote:
>> going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a STOW
>> to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.  You
>> just can't use those names in JCL.
>
>JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
>the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
>
Strange rule; I wonder what motivated it?

>However whether the part of the DSNAME that is the member name
>survives as far as the next part...
>
>> It would take an experiment to see if LOAD and LINK would allow them.
>
>I'd bet they would, if I were the betting sort.
>
But not in JCL:

3 //STEP0EXEC  PGM=IEBGENER
4 //SYSPRINT  DD   SYSOUT=(,)
5 //SYSIN DD   DUMMY
6 //SYSUT1DD   DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.MACLIB('SPLEVEL')
7 //SYSUT2DD   SYSOUT=(,)
  //*
 STMT NO. MESSAGE
6 IEF640I EXCESSIVE NUMBER OF POSITIONAL PARAMETERS IN THE DSNAME FIELD

WTF?

   3 //STEP0EXEC  PGM='IEBGENER'
   4 //SYSPRINT  DD   SYSOUT=(,)
   5 //SYSIN DD   DUMMY
   6 //SYSUT1DD   DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.MACLIB('SPLEVEL')
   7 //SYSUT2DD   SYSOUT=(,)
 //*
STMT NO. MESSAGE
   3 IEFC629I INCORRECT USE OF APOSTROPHE IN THE PGM FIELD

-- gil

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Tony Harminc 
On 6 May 2010 15:10, Kirk Talman  wrote:
> going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a STOW
> to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.  You
> just can't use those names in JCL.

JCL doesn't restrict the characters allowed in a DSNAME, as long as
the DSNAME is quoted. But if it's quoted, it can't be catalogued.
However whether the part of the DSNAME that is the member name
survives as far as the next part...

> It would take an experiment to see if LOAD and LINK would allow them.

I'd bet they would, if I were the betting sort.

Tony H.

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Binyamin Dissen 
On Thu, 6 May 2010 15:49:12 -0400 "Thompson, Steve"
 wrote:

:>-Original Message-
:>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
:>Behalf Of Kirk Talman
:>Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 2:10 PM
:>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
:>Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

:>going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a
:>STOW 
:>to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.  You 
:>just can't use those names in JCL.  It would take an experiment to see
:>if 
:>LOAD and LINK would allow them.

:>We still have libraries with those members in them.  I think it was the 
:>work of Librarian or an old release of Endevor.
:>

:>Or NETVIEW.

Or SMP, by IBM.

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Thompson, Steve 
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Kirk Talman
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 2:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a
STOW 
to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.  You 
just can't use those names in JCL.  It would take an experiment to see
if 
LOAD and LINK would allow them.

We still have libraries with those members in them.  I think it was the 
work of Librarian or an old release of Endevor.


Or NETVIEW.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Ted MacNEIL 
>going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a STOW 
to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.

We did that with a homegrown change manglement system in the early 1980's.


>You just can't use those names in JCL.
>It would take an experiment to see if LOAD and LINK would allow them.

IIRC, you could.
We had a convoluted procedure to run the munged backup with a different 
programme, a parm and a minor JCL change.

But, I was a rookie at the time, and it wasn't my area of responsibility.
I only found out because I was on the post-mortem team, and the issue came up 
as part of the root cause.

Details become hazy after the passage of time.


OFF TOPIC Observation:

In the past 30 years, I've noticed that post mortems haven't changed.
They're still fingerpointing & blamestorms first, problem solving and 
prevention second.


-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Kirk Talman 
going back decades it was possible to mangle the member name and do a STOW 
to save an "old" member under the mangled name using the old TTR.  You 
just can't use those names in JCL.  It would take an experiment to see if 
LOAD and LINK would allow them.

We still have libraries with those members in them.  I think it was the 
work of Librarian or an old release of Endevor.

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 05/05/2010 
08:20:10 PM:

> From: Charles Mills 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Date: 05/05/2010 08:21 PM
> Subject: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> 
> Am I correct in my reading between the lines that if one is to process a
> z/OS directory as though it were a PDS(E) using BPAM DCB, FIND, etc. 
then
> the simulated member name - the file name - must be no more than eight
> characters?
> 
> Must be upper case?
> What about names containing a period? No good? Must be no more than 
eight
> characters total? Or . ?
> 
> Is there any more information on this specific topic other than "Reading
> UNIX Files Using BPAM" in "DFSMS Using Data Sets"?
> 
> Yes, I could run experiments, but thought it made more sense to tap the
> collected wisdom of this august crowd.
> 
> Charles Mills



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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-06 Thread Charles Mills 
> If you're reduced to [running experiments] I hope you share the result.

Well, more important tasks are on the front burner. Honestly, the only
question that really matters is the first one -- maximum length -- and I can
pretty much infer the answer to that one from the limitations on FIND. 

As Gil suggests, I just treat names as an arbitrary array of eight little
integers, so whether they contain periods or lower case letters or u's mit
umlauts is mostly irrelevant to me -- I was just curious about those latter
questions.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

On Wed, 5 May 2010 17:20:10 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Am I correct in my reading between the lines that if one is to process a
>z/OS directory as though it were a PDS(E) using BPAM DCB, FIND, etc. then
>the simulated member name - the file name - must be no more than eight
>characters?
>
>Must be upper case?
>What about names containing a period? No good? Must be no more than eight
>characters total? Or . ?

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Re: Member name format for z/OS directory as simulated PDS?

2010-05-05 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Wed, 5 May 2010 17:20:10 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Am I correct in my reading between the lines that if one is to process a
>z/OS directory as though it were a PDS(E) using BPAM DCB, FIND, etc. then
>the simulated member name - the file name - must be no more than eight
>characters?
>
>Must be upper case?
>What about names containing a period? No good? Must be no more than eight
>characters total? Or . ?
>
It might be possible that BLDL or FIND issued from an assembler
program might be more lenient.  BPXWDYN probably won't allow
it to be allocated; I wouldn't care to guess whether the
restriction is enforced in BPXWDYN, ALLOCATE, or both.

I used to have an API to BLDL and STOW that performed no
enforcement on the member name; any 64 bits worked.  I don't
believe it should be the business of an API to enforce syntactic
restrictions not in the underlying system service.

>Is there any more information on this specific topic other than "Reading
>UNIX Files Using BPAM" in "DFSMS Using Data Sets"?
>
>Yes, I could run experiments, but thought it made more sense to tap the
>collected wisdom of this august crowd.
>
If you're reduced to this, I hope you share the result.

-- gil

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