Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Wow! I have rarely found people (persons) with that viewpoint. I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. I have traditionally agreed with this viewpoint as well. There is simply too much information to be able to memorize it all accurately. The ability to research, find information, draw conclusions, etc is much more important in the long run than being able to memorize. Testing situations automatically make me feel this way since there is usually nothing more riding on it than proving I've read the material. Not understand it mind you, since I feel like there are very few good written tests out there that answer that question. That said, however, I do continually try to find ways to improve my memory and recall abilities since I find it extremely useful for meeting type settings. I can hardly run to my desk everytime a question is asked in a meeting. And while I can, and quite often do, simply make a note and tell them I will find the answer, its nice to be able to just answer the question as it usually feeds into and keeps the conversation going to its logical conclusion, which is quite often a decision, based on, of course, the information you were just able to recall. And then there are those tests Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:22:49 +, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. Sounds like you may need a high speed memory upgrade. ;-) -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Wow! I have rarely found people (persons) with that viewpoint. I learned in 1981 that exact attitude. I have found with my (former) employer, that it actually impressed them. I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. SNIP Which is why I protest IBM Marketing's idea to re-brand, and re-name manuals. How can I look it up when the manual has changed, moved to a new bookshelf, etc. It is for this reason that I want to take all of them and put them into a room with no services except light and HVAC. Then tell them that they must write a description of how to get out of the room. Oh, by the way, paper has been rebranded, so have writing utensils, portals are no longer referred to as doors, door knobs, latches, etc. have all been renamed and it is up to you to find the right device to get the right answer. Do I like change, YOU BET (that's why I like doing development). But for the sake of employing lawyers, or just for the sake of change? Not really. /rant Thank you for your time, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. Sounds like you may need a high speed memory upgrade. ;-) More like things change so much, that what you have memorised is no longer appropriate. I remember when XA first came out a lot of stuff dealing with 'Hot-IO' went to automatic recovery. A hot-shot consultant had memorised the appropriate manuals under 370. He caused three unnecessessary IPLs, before we showed him the door. I learned a VITAL lessen, then. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
In a message dated 7/12/2007 8:43:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I remember when XA first came out a lot of stuff dealing with 'Hot-IO' went to automatic recovery. A hot-shot consultant had memorised the appropriate manuals under 370. He caused three unnecessessary IPLs, before we showed him the door. I learned a VITAL lessen, then. Guess I fold it into the 'continual refinement' category. Probably maybe 90% of each version is unchanged for compatibility. General coding has about 5-10% bugs. So with the new stuff and the untested stuff and the broken stuff the experience and knowledge is knowing when to react or when to investigate. Hopefully lists and search engines make this less arduous than previously but still uncharted waters for most, requiring educated adaptive thought processes. What's the old adage, 'the only thing constant is change'. ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Guess I fold it into the 'continual refinement' category. Probably maybe 90% of each version is unchanged for compatibility. I may have overstated my case, a bit. I don't have to look everything up! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On 12 Jul 2007 05:50:27 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have traditionally agreed with this viewpoint as well. There is simply too much information to be able to memorize it all accurately. The ability to research, find information, draw conclusions, etc is much more important in the long run than being able to memorize. Testing situations automatically make me feel this way since there is usually nothing more riding on it than proving I've read the material. Not understand it mind you, since I feel like there are very few good written tests out there that answer that question. I was a physics major and I noticed two types of students: 1. Those who memorized the formulae. 2. Those who could quickly figure how the formulae (that they learned) must be. I was #2 - I am poor at memorizing, but have always been a good test taker. I also am very good at trivia questions, but very bad at remembering names. Names don't have meaning that match faces and personalities. In general, memorization is quicker - but it is less flexible and more likely to be mistaken. === I am also a big fan of the skills learned by people who learned to use slide rules. Too bad there's no way people will be willing to learn this anymore: 1. Proportion is all of the math that most people will use after school. 2. Understanding significant digits is still very important. Lots of people think that the circle that's about a yard in diameter is 3.141592653589793... yards in circumference (depending on your calculator). We even make political decisions on misunderstandings of significance. 3. Using a slide rule, you need to stop and think what answer makes sense.We need to know where to put the decimal point. Having some idea whether the answer should be 5 or 50 is a good idea in any calculation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Ted MacNEIL wrote: Guess I fold it into the 'continual refinement' category. Probably maybe 90% of each version is unchanged for compatibility. I may have overstated my case, a bit. I don't have to look everything up! Ted, Now I agree with you! You often respond to the group, answer various questions. I strongly believe you simply KNOW the answers. Regarding to to memorize or not to memorize - I have some knowledge, however my knowledge is complemented by documentation, notes, etc. Regarding to the test: Assumption the test can check memorized information only is simply wrong. *Poor* test indeed do it. Good test does not. BTW: Few years ago I passed IBM Enterprise Storage professional test at IBM. It was veeery stupid. If you want I can find sample questions and a/b/c/d answers. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2007 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości opłacony) wynosi 118.064.140 zł. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwał XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
--snip- Along that line, while being trained in the Navy for my speciality I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Those who try to memorize become wrong one day because something changed and they are hanging on to their old notions. What the tests prove are you can memorize outdated information, not that you can use it. unsnip- In college math classes, we were taught to derive formulae, then told that we shouldn't depend on memory. We'd be far better off to carry a book of tables and formulae than to trust our memories. And there's always the risk of applying the wrong formula from pure confusion. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
snip- I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. ---unsnip I KNEW there was a name for that! As Bob Richards and Rich Vipond can attest, I also used that system extensively. A coworker told me that after I was RIF'ed, it took them nearly two weeks to sort down through the stacks and categorize/file everything. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
And all that time I thought it was a cubicle wall! grin Bob Richards -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test snip- I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. ---unsnip I KNEW there was a name for that! As Bob Richards and Rich Vipond can attest, I also used that system extensively. A coworker told me that after I was RIF'ed, it took them nearly two weeks to sort down through the stacks and categorize/file everything. LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
The name that was used at a former employer was Piling System. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test snip- I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. ---unsnip I KNEW there was a name for that! As Bob Richards and Rich Vipond can attest, I also used that system extensively. A coworker told me that after I was RIF'ed, it took them nearly two weeks to sort down through the stacks and categorize/file everything. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test snip- I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. ---unsnip SNIP Does this correspond to the random hash stack algorithm? Later, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
---snip- I am also a big fan of the skills learned by people who learned to use slide rules. Too bad there's no way people will be willing to learn this anymore: 1. Proportion is all of the math that most people will use after school. 2. Understanding significant digits is still very important. Lots of people think that the circle that's about a yard in diameter is 3.141592653589793... yards in circumference (depending on your calculator). We even make political decisions on misunderstandings of significance. 3. Using a slide rule, you need to stop and think what answer makes sense.We need to know where to put the decimal point. Having some idea whether the answer should be 5 or 50 is a good idea in any calculation. -unsnip- Part of my now copious free time is taken up with tutoring high school math and physics students. My first step is to take away all calculators. First they do the math with pencil and paper. When they seem to have mastered this, then they learn to use an abacus. (Multiplication and division are frustrating, to say the least.) Then they graduate to a slide rule (each one gets his own, for the duration). Only after these steps are they allowed to use calculators. The grade improvement is amazing and so is the attitude change. Much more willingness to try and much higher self-esteem. One guy complained to his Father about not being able to use a calculator and Daddy called me and proceeded to try his hardest to melt the phone wires. When I finally got his attention, I suggested he have the kid make change for a $13.95 purchase from a $20 bill without a calculator. The kid couldn't do it. Daddy called me back and apologized. He's a mechanical engineer. The kid was a SENIOR in high school! (Some school districts here in Metro Chicago allow kids to use calculators as early as 2nd grade! I find this reprehensible!) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Made of very thin 8 1/2 by 11 tiles!!! :-D Richards.Bob wrote: And all that time I thought it was a cubicle wall! grin Bob Richards -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test snip- I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. ---unsnip I KNEW there was a name for that! As Bob Richards and Rich Vipond can attest, I also used that system extensively. A coworker told me that after I was RIF'ed, it took them nearly two weeks to sort down through the stacks and categorize/file everything. LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On 12 Jul 2007 08:57:59 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: One guy complained to his Father about not being able to use a calculator and Daddy called me and proceeded to try his hardest to melt the phone wires. When I finally got his attention, I suggested he have the kid make change for a $13.95 purchase from a $20 bill without a calculator. The kid couldn't do it. Daddy called me back and apologized. He's a mechanical engineer. The kid was a SENIOR in high school! (Some school districts here in Metro Chicago allow kids to use calculators as early as 2nd grade! I find this reprehensible!) Have you ever read Asimov's The Feeling of Power? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman [ snip ] Part of my now copious free time is taken up with tutoring high school math and physics students. My first step is to take away all calculators. First they do the math with pencil and paper. When they seem to have mastered this, then they learn to use an abacus. Now there's a skill I never acquired. I must admit to initial amazement the first time I entered a bank in Japan, and saw that all the tellers were using abacuses (abaci?) to verify calculator results! (Multiplication and division are frustrating, to say the least.) Then they graduate to a slide rule (each one gets his own, for the duration). Only after these steps are they allowed to use calculators. I once had a Pickett N-20 (or N-28?), a Cadillac among slide rules. All I have left now is an E6B. The grade improvement is amazing and so is the attitude change. Much more willingness to try and much higher self-esteem. One guy complained to his Father about not being able to use a calculator and Daddy called me and proceeded to try his hardest to melt the phone wires. When I finally got his attention, I suggested he have the kid make change for a $13.95 purchase from a $20 bill without a calculator. The kid couldn't do it. Daddy called me back and apologized. He's a mechanical engineer. The kid was a SENIOR in high school! (Some school districts here in Metro Chicago allow kids to use calculators as early as 2nd grade! I find this reprehensible!) What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test SNIP What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. -jc- SNIP OH NO! Then our studinks wouldn't be able to pass the [fill in the state test name] so they could graduate (this is a USofA problem near as I can tell). Regards, Steve Thompson Ps. I'd love to see College Freshmen have to take an 8th grade test (circa 1920) from Iowa that I saw a few months ago. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On 12 Jul 2007 10:07:31 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: I once had a Pickett N-20 (or N-28?), a Cadillac among slide rules. All I have left now is an E6B. I have a Post Versalog in front of me right now (at my computer at work) - in case the computer goes down.But it's very hard to get it out of the leather case. When my computer is working, I can use the following Java Slide Rule: http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/UniVirtual/UniVirtual.html Here's Dave's slide rules http://www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/slide/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On 12 Jul 2007 10:07:31 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. Most all education throughout history has had this same lack. Rote used to be even a bigger part of education. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
At 11:54 AM 7/12/2007 -0600, you wrote: On 12 Jul 2007 10:07:31 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. Most all education throughout history has had this same lack. Rote used to be even a bigger part of education. As an appropriate example, learning how to program a computer involves both rote memorization and synthetic thinking. Vocabulary and grammar can be learned separately, of course, but how much better it is to USE the components as they are learned. That's mostly accomplished by writing code, and the more code a person writes, the more likely s/he is to learn what makes a good program. (Not guaranteed, of course.) In my experience, students dislike wasting their time memorizing instructions. Me, too, but how else can one develop a usable vocabulary, not requiring each word (instruction) to be looked up? Michael Stack Product Developer NEON Enterprise Software, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On 12 Jul 2007 11:16:07 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: As an appropriate example, learning how to program a computer involves both rote memorization and synthetic thinking. Vocabulary and grammar can be learned separately, of course, but how much better it is to USE the components as they are learned. That's mostly accomplished by writing code, and the more code a person writes, the more likely s/he is to learn what makes a good program. Have you had the experience of having (or giving) classes in a new system - months before the system is available for use?A big waste of time and money. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Is that the one where they want to replace expensive computer pilots with cheaper human ones after teaching them the lost arts of writing numbers and arithmetic? -Original Message- From: Howard Brazee [mailto:snip] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test Have you ever read Asimov's The Feeling of Power? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On 12 Jul 2007 13:10:59 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Is that the one where they want to replace expensive computer pilots with cheaper human ones after teaching them the lost arts of writing numbers and arithmetic? -Original Message- From: Howard Brazee [mailto:snip] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test Have you ever read Asimov's The Feeling of Power? Yep. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Thompson, Steve -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Chase, John SNIP What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. -jc- SNIP OH NO! Then our studinks wouldn't be able to pass the [fill in the state test name] so they could graduate (this is a USofA problem near as I can tell). But they might be able to debunk them... Ps. I'd love to see College Freshmen have to take an 8th grade test (circa 1920) from Iowa that I saw a few months ago. That would likely bruise some fragile egos (not necessarily talking about the studinks here). -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:49:43 -0500, Tom Schmidt wrote: The term for this that I have used (stolen from the early '80's at an insurance company in Southern California) was: First-In, Still-Here. The acronym: FISH Doh !!! I resemble that remark. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:27:46 -0400, Richards.Bob wrote: And all that time I thought it was a cubicle wall! grin Back in the Green-bar days, I almost completed two walls inside my cubicle. The door was going to be a problem. And it's surprising how sound proof a ten inch thick stack of paper is -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-snip One guy complained to his Father about not being able to use a calculator and Daddy called me and proceeded to try his hardest to melt the phone wires. When I finally got his attention, I suggested he have the kid make change for a $13.95 purchase from a $20 bill without a calculator. The kid couldn't do it. Daddy called me back and apologized. He's a mechanical engineer. The kid was a SENIOR in high school! (Some school districts here in Metro Chicago allow kids to use calculators as early as 2nd grade! I find this reprehensible!) Have you ever read Asimov's The Feeling of Power? -unsnip--- No, I haven't. Are you suggesting that perhaps I should ?? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
--snip- What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. Most all education throughout history has had this same lack. Rote used to be even a bigger part of education. As an appropriate example, learning how to program a computer involves both rote memorization and synthetic thinking. Vocabulary and grammar can be learned separately, of course, but how much better it is to USE the components as they are learned. That's mostly accomplished by writing code, and the more code a person writes, the more likely s/he is to learn what makes a good program. (Not guaranteed, of course.) In my experience, students dislike wasting their time memorizing instructions. Me, too, but how else can one develop a usable vocabulary, not requiring each word (instruction) to be looked up? --unsnip I PARTLY agree, Mike. Don't forget the language skills to explain a problem or upgrade to non-DP staff in terms that they can understand. Spitting control block acronyms can be counter productive. And the language of TACT can't be ignored. Nobody liikes being called a D*** fool, but most folks can respond to the comment Yes, it seems to be working, but this might work even better. Can we try it? Are you the Mike Stack responsible for the NIUMACS package?? Fine piece of work. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-snip--- I once had a Pickett N-20 (or N-28?), a Cadillac among slide rules. All I have left now is an E6B. I have a Post Versalog in front of me right now (at my computer at work) - in case the computer goes down.But it's very hard to get it out of the leather case. When my computer is working, I can use the following Java Slide Rule: http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/UniVirtual/UniVirtual.html Here's Dave's slide rules http://www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/slide/ unsnip-- I have a round dozen of the low-priced POST slide rules that were offered for about $4.00 when I was in high school chemistry. Surprisingly, none of my students choose to abuse them, so they're still in very good shape. I bought the abaci at Barnes Nobel years ago, for around $6.95 each, and again, they're still in good shape. I still get snide remarks about my bead collections. :-D -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
-snip- What appears to be missing in public edjamacation these days is teaching *how* to think, and *how* to learn. -jc- SNIP OH NO! Then our studinks wouldn't be able to pass the [fill in the state test name] so they could graduate (this is a USofA problem near as I can tell). But they might be able to debunk them... Ps. I'd love to see College Freshmen have to take an 8th grade test (circa 1920) from Iowa that I saw a few months ago. That would likely bruise some fragile egos (not necessarily talking about the studinks here). unsnip--- LET EGOS BE BRUISED!!! Let's try turning out some high school graduates that can add and subtract without taking off their mittens! I can't see that that's asking too much. Or count past 20 without pulling down their pants! Robin Williams said it best: Reality. Now that's a Helluva concept. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
At 05:44 PM 7/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: Have you ever read Asimov's The Feeling of Power? I had forgotten it. Thanks for the reminder: http://downlode.org/etext/power.html Michael Stack Product Developer NEON Enterprise Software, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Thompson, Steve wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test snip- I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. ---unsnip SNIP Does this correspond to the random hash stack algorithm? Later, Steve Thompson That is what I use when I am forced to clean up. By using this algorithm I can generally make it look cleaner without actually getting rid of anything. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Dave Kopischke wrote: On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:27:46 -0400, Richards.Bob wrote: And all that time I thought it was a cubicle wall! grin Back in the Green-bar days, I almost completed two walls inside my cubicle. The door was going to be a problem. And it's surprising how sound proof a ten inch thick stack of paper is When I first started my current job the technical staff had either full real cubical or book shelfs and mobile cubical walls. The end users had a desk, a terminal table and a chair, in a open space. NO WALL's The built walls with listings to have privacy. This was in the late 80's and almost everybody smoked and of course back then you could smoke at your desk. The county implemented new laws that required the fire marshal to inspect every office building twice a year. Our building had not been inspected since was first open (the early 70's). He was NOT amused by 6-7 foot high walls of paper to create private work spaces. Nor was he amused as the coffee tables with ash trays on them. The more he saw the redder his face got. He kept muttering something about about paper being flammable. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:34:15 -0700, Gibney, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I quit trying to remember it all long ago. Experience and knowing where and how to look is how it gets done. Along that line, while being trained in the Navy for my speciality I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Those who try to memorize become wrong one day because something changed and they are hanging on to their old notions. What the tests prove are you can memorize outdated information, not that you can use it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Wow! I have rarely found people (persons) with that viewpoint. I learned in 1981 that exact attitude. I have found with my (former) employer, that it actually impressed them. I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Jul 11, 2007, at 6:22 PM, Ted MacNEIL wrote: I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Wow! I have rarely found people (persons) with that viewpoint. I learned in 1981 that exact attitude. I have found with my (former) employer, that it actually impressed them. I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. Ted: Agree/disagree with the thread. Let me start out and say I have *ALWAYS* had a messy desk. But I generally knew where whatever I was looking for was. I had a VP that was trying to find an excuse to get rid of me. He thought he could surprise me with a request for one of the many reports I at that time produced he could get rid of me. As usual my desk was overflowing in reports. In the middle of the morning he comes up to me and requested a report that I had produced about a week ago. I asked again for the date and thought hmmm last week. I reached for a pile of listings and it was 3rd from the top. I handed it to him and asked if that was the report he was looking for, he looked at it and his face went red. He said it was and walked away. My boss later told me what the VP had been up to. After that I sent in a request for a filing cabinet that you could put listings in and I filed the listings after about 3 days. He never bothered trying to catch me after that. I was *NOT* organized but there was some order to the chaos on my desk. Now if somebody tried to find the same report they would have taken a day or so. My memory at that time was excellent, however after my illness it is not as sharp as it used to be. I could not pull the same thing off today if I wanted to. AT the other extreme I went to a place for an interview and during the conversation I found out that you could not leave anything on your desk overnight, this included dumps. This was before IPCS, I asked how did the systems people handle dumps and their answer was to get it off the desk before you leave. I promptly said no thanks and walked out of the interview. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Ed Gould wrote: On Jul 11, 2007, at 6:22 PM, Ted MacNEIL wrote: I was taught not to memorize the information because it changes. Instead, learn where to look. Wow! I have rarely found people (persons) with that viewpoint. I learned in 1981 that exact attitude. I have found with my (former) employer, that it actually impressed them. I could find an answer faster by looking it up, than trying to recall it. Ted: Agree/disagree with the thread. Let me start out and say I have *ALWAYS* had a messy desk. But I generally knew where whatever I was looking for was. I had a VP that was trying to find an excuse to get rid of me. He thought he could surprise me with a request for one of the many reports I at that time produced he could get rid of me. As usual my desk was overflowing in reports. In the middle of the morning he comes up to me and requested a report that I had produced about a week ago. I asked again for the date and thought hmmm last week. I reached for a pile of listings and it was 3rd from the top. I handed it to him and asked if that was the report he was looking for, he looked at it and his face went red. He said it was and walked away. My boss later told me what the VP had been up to. After that I sent in a request for a filing cabinet that you could put listings in and I filed the listings after about 3 days. He never bothered trying to catch me after that. I was *NOT* organized but there was some order to the chaos on my desk. Now if somebody tried to find the same report they would have taken a day or so. My memory at that time was excellent, however after my illness it is not as sharp as it used to be. I could not pull the same thing off today if I wanted to. AT the other extreme I went to a place for an interview and during the conversation I found out that you could not leave anything on your desk overnight, this included dumps. This was before IPCS, I asked how did the systems people handle dumps and their answer was to get it off the desk before you leave. I promptly said no thanks and walked out of the interview. Ed Organization and neatness are two different things. You were organized, you just were not neat. I can't remember where I read/heard this, but if you can find what you need in your office or on you desk in 10 minutes or less, then you are organized. If it takes longer than 10 minutes you are dis-organized. I knew somebody that always filed everything, very seldom did they ever have have anything on their desk, but it would take them two days to find anything in their four 4 draw filing cabinets and their two 2 draw cabinets. I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:21:00 -0400, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote: ...snipped... I too have very messy desk and tend to use the flat surface virtual stacking filing system. The term for this that I have used (stolen from the early '80's at an insurance company in Southern California) was: First-In, Still-Here. The acronym: FISH -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
I'd guess that if your CV Is not very strong in a Systems Programming environment it would help as it shows a certain level of enthusiasm and willing to learn If you already have loads of z/OS experience I'd reckon it's not worth much at all I'd be more interested in a persons work experience than the ability to read a redbook and answer some questions. Phil Kingston z/OS Systems Programming Website www.zostek.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Deaver Sent: 09 July 2007 17:55 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Share z/OS Mastery Test Just Curious - anyone planning on taking the z/OS System Programmer Mastery Test being offered at SHARE? I'm guessing quite a few of you could take it without even picking up the redbook: knowledge contained in the IBM Introduction to the New Mainframe: z/OS Basics textbook. This textbook is available through the IBM Academic Initiative System z program and is also available for download at: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg246366.html ... but I was curious to know how many of you think its valuable to your careers to have. Or not. In my particular case, certifications are smiled at around my shop, and since this one is of particular interest to me, and being offered free of charge in San Diego, I'm taking the test. Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/891 - Release Date: 08/07/2007 18:32 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 09/07/2007 17:22 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
I agree, the mastery test is for a BASIC mastery of z/OS concepts, not any in-depth knowledge. It is appropriate for new hires so that they can give some indication that they have had exposure to z/OS. I don't think that it would enhance anyone's resume very much if they had much real experience. P.S. I was involved in the design of this test. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Kingston Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 6:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test I'd guess that if your CV Is not very strong in a Systems Programming environment it would help as it shows a certain level of enthusiasm and willing to learn If you already have loads of z/OS experience I'd reckon it's not worth much at all I'd be more interested in a persons work experience than the ability to read a redbook and answer some questions. Phil Kingston z/OS Systems Programming Website www.zostek.com This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Consider the first person who sees the resume. The young inexperienced person in HR whose most relevant life experience is the four years of college recently completed. Having the 'Mastery of Z/OS' certification may differentiate one resume from those that don't. Consider the HR person who didn't see HSM on my resume and didn't appreciate the history lesson that I proceeded to give her regarding the permutations of IBM product names. I never did get to talk to a technical manager. I won't go further down this track lest it count against me in some future hiring process. Jon wrote: I agree, the mastery test is for a BASIC mastery of z/OS concepts, not any in-depth knowledge. It is appropriate for new hires so that they can give some indication that they have had exposure to z/OS. I don't think that it would enhance anyone's resume very much if they had much real experience. P.S. I was involved in the design of this test. Phil wrote: I'd guess that if your CV Is not very strong in a Systems Programming environment it would help as it shows a certain level of enthusiasm and willing to learn If you already have loads of z/OS experience I'd reckon it's not worth much at all I'd be more interested in a persons work experience than the ability to read a redbook and answer some questions. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
Good points. Maybe those who attend SHARE should push IBM to come up with a Mastery of Complex z/OS Concepts test? Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test Consider the first person who sees the resume. The young inexperienced person in HR whose most relevant life experience is the four years of college recently completed. Having the 'Mastery of Z/OS' certification may differentiate one resume from those that don't. Consider the HR person who didn't see HSM on my resume and didn't appreciate the history lesson that I proceeded to give her regarding the permutations of IBM product names. I never did get to talk to a technical manager. I won't go further down this track lest it count against me in some future hiring process. This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Jul 10, 2007, at 6:40 AM, O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote: Consider the first person who sees the resume. The young inexperienced person in HR whose most relevant life experience is the four years of college recently completed. Having the 'Mastery of Z/OS' certification may differentiate one resume from those that don't. Consider the HR person who didn't see HSM on my resume and didn't appreciate the history lesson that I proceeded to give her regarding the permutations of IBM product names. I never did get to talk to a technical manager. I won't go further down this track lest it count against me in some future hiring process. -SNIP-- Or consider that a HR person see DFHSM and doesn't see HSM the resume is passed over. The second part of the paragraph is a tough nut to crack. But I always say leave the icky details for the technical person who does want to hear about it (and probably (hopefully) knows them). Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:40:03 -0400, Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good points. Maybe those who attend SHARE should push IBM to come up with a Mastery of Complex z/OS Concepts test? Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 Those who do attend the SHARE Conference should also push IBM if they want such a test. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test
I'll take it, if I can have my laptop with the manuals and internet access :) I quit trying to remember it all long ago. Experience and knowing where and how to look is how it gets done. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenneth E Tomiak Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Share z/OS Mastery Test On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:40:03 -0400, Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good points. Maybe those who attend SHARE should push IBM to come up with a Mastery of Complex z/OS Concepts test? Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 Those who do attend the SHARE Conference should also push IBM if they want such a test. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Share z/OS Mastery Test
Just Curious - anyone planning on taking the z/OS System Programmer Mastery Test being offered at SHARE? I'm guessing quite a few of you could take it without even picking up the redbook: knowledge contained in the IBM Introduction to the New Mainframe: z/OS Basics textbook. This textbook is available through the IBM Academic Initiative System z program and is also available for download at: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg246366.html ... but I was curious to know how many of you think its valuable to your careers to have. Or not. In my particular case, certifications are smiled at around my shop, and since this one is of particular interest to me, and being offered free of charge in San Diego, I'm taking the test. Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
