Re: Amdahl training was RE: more on startio...

2011-06-25 Thread Ravi Gaur 
I did have sessions with Technowledge and can say they been pretty good 
with doc reference and trainer been knowledgable ..back in 2004

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-24 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In , on 06/24/2011
   at 03:37 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:

>What additional housekeeping do you perceive is with STARTIO?

See Bill's response.

Note that the issue is not whether it is sometimes necessary to use
STARTIO; the issue is whether STARTIO is simpler than EXCP when it is
feasible to use either. Also note that constructing your own DEB is
*not* the normal way to use EXCP.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-24 Thread Lindy Mayfield 
A bit off topic, but only  a bit...

you know what I love about mainframes? first, I love working with them.  And 
then...

I didn't understand anything at all you said.  I know a tiny bit of the 
acronyms: CCHH, ISOB, SRB, but the gist of it, nada.  Nothing.

And don't think that I'm asking you to explain.  Not at all.  One day I'll 
understand.  

Lindy


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill 
Fairchild [bi...@mainstar.com]
Sent: 24 June 2011 15:50
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: more on startio...

You must find the UCB.  Also it would be a good idea to inspect the UCB to make 
sure it is a real device, has at least one channel path attached, is not 
undergoing hot I/O, etc.  If the device is DASD, you need to acquire the DASD 
CCHH address from somewhere, which may entail finding a DSCB.  Some special 
storage must be obtained, typically in CSA/ECSA, in which the IOSB, SRB, and 
CCWs/TCWs are built, the address space must be made non-swappable, the I/O 
buffer(s) involved must be page-fixed, and the UCB really ought to be PINned.  
After the I/O has ended, all those resources acquired must be freed at some 
time.  Most of the actions mentioned earlier require a system service to take 
the action and later to undo the action, and system services typically have 
many parameters in their invoking macros, each of which needs to be thought 
about.  And care must be taken in the back-end routine not to free up any 
storage that the front-end routine, probably still in the WAIT state, n!
 eeds to access, lest a S0C4 occur.  And GREAT care must be taken when building 
the channel program, as it contains real, not virtual, addresses.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-24 Thread Binyamin Dissen 
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:50:15 + Bill Fairchild  wrote:

:>You must find the UCB.  Also it would be a good idea to inspect the UCB to 
make sure it is a real device, has at least one channel path attached, is not 
undergoing hot I/O, etc.  If the device is DASD, you need to acquire the DASD 
CCHH address from somewhere, which may entail finding a DSCB.  Some special 
storage must be obtained, typically in CSA/ECSA, in which the IOSB, SRB, and 
CCWs/TCWs are built, the address space must be made non-swappable, the I/O 
buffer(s) involved must be page-fixed, and the UCB really ought to be PINned.  
After the I/O has ended, all those resources acquired must be freed at some 
time.  Most of the actions mentioned earlier require a system service to take 
the action and later to undo the action, and system services typically have 
many parameters in their invoking macros, each of which needs to be thought 
about.  And care must be taken in the back-end routine not to free up any 
storage that the front-end routine, probably still in the WAIT state,!
  n!
:> eeds to access, lest a S0C4 occur.  And GREAT care must be taken when 
building the channel program, as it contains real, not virtual, addresses.

Yes, obviously one must know what one is doing. And it is easier to use the
"normal" services.

But if one needs to do something to a device where MVS will not allow normal
access, STARTIO seems a lot easier than building a DEB/DCB and using EXCP.

:>-Original Message-
:>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf 
Of Binyamin Dissen
:>Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:37 AM
:>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
:>Subject: Re: more on startio...
:>
:>On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:57:03 -0400 "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)"
:> wrote:
:>
:>:>In <2tr307tg831hmro3dlkac8711mib6ie...@4ax.com>, on 06/22/2011
:>:>   at 04:36 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:
:>
:>:>>EXCP required a DCB, DEB, etc.
:>
:>:>Yes, but it takes care of a lot of housekeeping that you have to do 
:>yourself with EXCP. That's a lot more work than initializing and :>opening a 
DCB.
:>
:>What additional housekeeping do you perceive is with STARTIO?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-24 Thread Bill Fairchild 
You must find the UCB.  Also it would be a good idea to inspect the UCB to make 
sure it is a real device, has at least one channel path attached, is not 
undergoing hot I/O, etc.  If the device is DASD, you need to acquire the DASD 
CCHH address from somewhere, which may entail finding a DSCB.  Some special 
storage must be obtained, typically in CSA/ECSA, in which the IOSB, SRB, and 
CCWs/TCWs are built, the address space must be made non-swappable, the I/O 
buffer(s) involved must be page-fixed, and the UCB really ought to be PINned.  
After the I/O has ended, all those resources acquired must be freed at some 
time.  Most of the actions mentioned earlier require a system service to take 
the action and later to undo the action, and system services typically have 
many parameters in their invoking macros, each of which needs to be thought 
about.  And care must be taken in the back-end routine not to free up any 
storage that the front-end routine, probably still in the WAIT state, n!
 eeds to access, lest a S0C4 occur.  And GREAT care must be taken when building 
the channel program, as it contains real, not virtual, addresses.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: more on startio...

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:57:03 -0400 "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)"
 wrote:

:>In <2tr307tg831hmro3dlkac8711mib6ie...@4ax.com>, on 06/22/2011
:>   at 04:36 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:

:>>EXCP required a DCB, DEB, etc.

:>Yes, but it takes care of a lot of housekeeping that you have to do 
:>yourself with EXCP. That's a lot more work than initializing and :>opening a 
DCB.

What additional housekeeping do you perceive is with STARTIO?

--
Binyamin Dissen  http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should 
preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those 
from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-24 Thread Binyamin Dissen 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:57:03 -0400 "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)"
 wrote:

:>In <2tr307tg831hmro3dlkac8711mib6ie...@4ax.com>, on 06/22/2011
:>   at 04:36 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:

:>>EXCP required a DCB, DEB, etc.

:>Yes, but it takes care of a lot of housekeeping that you have to do
:>yourself with EXCP. That's a lot more work than initializing and
:>opening a DCB.

What additional housekeeping do you perceive is with STARTIO?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-24 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In <2tr307tg831hmro3dlkac8711mib6ie...@4ax.com>, on 06/22/2011
   at 04:36 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:

>EXCP required a DCB, DEB, etc.

Yes, but it takes care of a lot of housekeeping that you have to do
yourself with EXCP. That's a lot more work than initializing and
opening a DCB.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Amdahl training was RE: more on startio...

2011-06-22 Thread Hylton Tom P 
Do you mean Merriweather Post?  http://www.merriweathermusic.com/about/


The Amdahl training center there morphed into TECHKNOWLEDGE 
(http://www.techknowledge.com) sometime maybe in the mid-90's.

They still offer mainframe training, but it's been almost as long since I 
attended any so I can't attest to content or quality.  In those days, some of 
the Amdahl offerings were better than their ibm equivalents IMO. I had several 
instructors there that I thought were outstanding through the years. 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Eric Bielefeld
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: more on startio...

I went to that 2 week Amdahl class I think in 1982 or 83.  I thought it was one 
of the best classes I ever attended.  It was held in Columbia, Maryland.  They 
had a hillside right next to the hotel where there were performances almost 
every day.  There was also the Library, a bar made to look like a library.  
August was customer appreciation month.  All drinks before 7:00 PM were .50 
cents.  They were also very strong.  

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-22 Thread Binyamin Dissen 
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:33:50 -0400 "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)"
 wrote:

:>In <6nr1079jaapjm02otqqvboe1fe5qvp1...@4ax.com>, on 06/21/2011
:>   at 10:24 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:

:>>I used STARTIO in order to make the CONSOLE input field no-display 

:>I don't see how STARTIO makes that any easier than doing it with EXCP.

EXCP required a DCB, DEB, etc.

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-22 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In <6nr1079jaapjm02otqqvboe1fe5qvp1...@4ax.com>, on 06/21/2011
   at 10:24 PM, Binyamin Dissen  said:

>I used STARTIO in order to make the CONSOLE input field no-display 

I don't see how STARTIO makes that any easier than doing it with EXCP.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-21 Thread Shane Ginnane 
On Wed, Jun 22nd, 2011 at 6:02 AM, Bill Fairchild wrote:

> Warwick is alive and well in Hong Kong

I recall Warwick presenting a paper along the lines Bill was describing to
Share here in Aus  - similar timeframe I suspect.
Full (assemled) listing handed out and discussed in detail. Much fun ensued
for the techos who stayed the distance.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if a certain (current) HDS employee who recently
un-subscribed from this list was also present.

Seeds planted ...

Shane ...

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-21 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:24:15 +0300, Binyamin Dissen wrote:

>I used STARTIO in order to make the CONSOLE input field no-display so that
>passwords could be entered even if someone was shoulder surfing (with some
>help from Warwick Teale, if he is still around).
>
This seems to me to be more a matter for a security Requirement
than for a customer circumvention.  But has the Requirement
already been submitted but rejected or deferred?

(But I once submitted a PMR on a very similar matter.  IBM
fixed it for one of my test cases; left it unresolved for
another.)

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-21 Thread Eric Bielefeld 
I went to that 2 week Amdahl class I think in 1982 or 83.  I thought it was one 
of the best classes I ever attended.  It was held in Columbia, Maryland.  They 
had a hillside right next to the hotel where there were performances almost 
every day.  There was also the Library, a bar made to look like a library.  
August was customer appreciation month.  All drinks before 7:00 PM were .50 
cents.  They were also very strong.  

Oh well - totally off topic.

--
Eric Bielefeld
Systems Programmer


 Bill Fairchild  wrote: 
> I had attended a two-week Amdahl class on MVS-XA internals in 1985 and asked 
> the instructor if he could supply me with a copy of the document.  > 
> Bill Fairchild
> Rocket Software
> 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-21 Thread Bill Fairchild 
Warwick is alive and well in Hong Kong, working for Hewlitt-Packard, but not 
involved with mainframes.  I attended his wedding there last November.  I  can 
send you his address, phone number, etc., if you want.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 2:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: more on startio...

I used STARTIO in order to make the CONSOLE input field no-display so that 
passwords could be entered even if someone was shoulder surfing (with some help 
from Warwick Teale, if he is still around).

Advantages of STARTIO are that you do not need the device allocated (in fact, 
it can be allocated exclusively to a completely different job). 

--
Binyamin Dissen  http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should 
preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those 
from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-21 Thread Binyamin Dissen 
I used STARTIO in order to make the CONSOLE input field no-display so that
passwords could be entered even if someone was shoulder surfing (with some
help from Warwick Teale, if he is still around).

Advantages of STARTIO are that you do not need the device allocated (in fact,
it can be allocated exclusively to a completely different job). 

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-21 Thread Bill Fairchild 
August, 1987 in Chicago.  I did a newer version of it in March, 2009 in Austin. 
 I may have done it once or twice at SHARE after AUG 87, but I don't remember.  
I based my presentation on the sample code written by Peter (unknown last name) 
referenced in Lindy's first posted url of 
http://lilliana.eu/downloads/startio.txt
I had attended a two-week Amdahl class on MVS-XA internals in 1985 and asked 
the instructor if he could supply me with a copy of the document.  After lunch 
that day he gave me a photocopied copy of a copy of a copy of a copy..., and I 
was able to read it well enough to create a sample program of my own, test it, 
change it to do many other things not covered in the document, etc.  I no 
longer have the original document that I was given, which was a photocopied 
copy of a copy of copy of a copy..., of Peter's original white paper.  But I 
still have a copy of what I presented at SHARE.

Coincidentally enough, another session at the AUG 87 SHARE in Chicago had a 
discussion of STARTIO presented by someone from Cray in Minnesota.  There 
should be a copy of his foils in the SHARE archives.  My foils were in there 
the last time I looked.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
David Andrews
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: more on startio...

I remember - maybe - that Bill Fairchild had a SHARE presentation or two on the 
care and feeding of STARTIO.  That was years ago.  Bill?

--
David Andrews
A. Duda & Sons, Inc.
david.andr...@duda.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: more on startio...

2011-06-20 Thread David Andrews 
I remember - maybe - that Bill Fairchild had a SHARE presentation or two
on the care and feeding of STARTIO.  That was years ago.  Bill?

-- 
David Andrews
A. Duda & Sons, Inc.
david.andr...@duda.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

more on startio...

2011-06-20 Thread Lindy Mayfield 
I found this, too.  hard to imagine a world without google.


http://lilliana.eu/downloads/iecvexcp.txt

)Lindy


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html