Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[John Gilmore]

I think the critical question is

How much development of new or significantly extended mainframe
systems is going on?

Shops that have only low-maintenance, legacy-systems workloads tend to
get smaller and smaller over time.

On 2/22/12, Hal Merritt  wrote:
> As others have posted, there are just too many variables to include the
> nature of the workload and the management strategies.
>
> For example, a shop may not accept a job for production if it cannot be
> managed by exception by the job scheduler. That way, a crew of four can
> provide 7x24 coverage for thousands of jobs. If manual intervention is
> allowed, then it might take a crew of 10 or 20 per shift.
>
> I do think it is safe to say that a MF shop -can- be much less labor
> intensive than a comparable server farm.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
> Of George Henke
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:20 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
>
> That is not my intent.
>
> Please do not divulge anything with which you do not feel comfortable.
>
> "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."  Thomas Gray
>
> I am just trying to get a sense, a reasonability check, on how
> labor-intensive a large zSeries shop is.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
>
>> Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Scott Ford
>> Senior Systems Engineer
>> www.identityforge.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg
>> >> z/OS,
>> z/VM,
>> >> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe
>> >> shop.
>> >>
>> >> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> George Henke
>> >> (C) 845 401 5614
>> >>
>> >
>> > George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
>> >
>> > What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix,
>> > external contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types
>> > (NJE, MQ), and
>> so
>> > on.
>> >
>> > You can find titles like
>> > z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
>> > Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators,
>> > and so many more.
>> >
>> > I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a
>> broad
>> > question.
>> >
>> > Could you narrow it down a bit?
>> >
>> > What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like
>> asking
>> > some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.
>>  If
>> > you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
>> >
>> >
>> > Lizette
>> >
>> > 
>> > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
>
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-- 
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Hal Merritt]

As others have posted, there are just too many variables to include the nature 
of the workload and the management strategies. 

For example, a shop may not accept a job for production if it cannot be managed 
by exception by the job scheduler. That way, a crew of four can provide 7x24 
coverage for thousands of jobs. If manual intervention is allowed, then it 
might take a crew of 10 or 20 per shift.

I do think it is safe to say that a MF shop -can- be much less labor intensive 
than a comparable server farm. 
 

 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
George Henke
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

That is not my intent.

Please do not divulge anything with which you do not feel comfortable.

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."  Thomas Gray

I am just trying to get a sense, a reasonability check, on how labor-intensive 
a large zSeries shop is.


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:

> Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Scott Ford
> Senior Systems Engineer
> www.identityforge.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler 
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg 
> >> z/OS,
> z/VM,
> >> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
> >>
> >> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> George Henke
> >> (C) 845 401 5614
> >>
> >
> > George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
> >
> > What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix, 
> > external contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types 
> > (NJE, MQ), and
> so
> > on.
> >
> > You can find titles like
> > z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer, 
> > Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, 
> > and so many more.
> >
> > I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a
> broad
> > question.
> >
> > Could you narrow it down a bit?
> >
> > What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like
> asking
> > some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.
>  If
> > you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
> >
> >
> > Lizette
> >
> > 
> > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
> > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



--
George Henke
(C) 845 401 5614

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Fred Hoffman]

Back in the dark ages, we used Tandem's computers connected to an IMS DB/DC 
system.
Fred



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Gibney, Dave
Sent: Fri 2/17/2012 7:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing



Isn't CICS via VTAM behind many ATMs :)

Dave Gibney
Information Technology Services
Washington State University


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Tony's Comcast account
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:31 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
>
> Wow, imagine running a PCI application on USS.  ;-)
>

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 02/16/2012
   at 04:18 PM, George Henke  said:

>I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS,
>z/VM, VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries
>mainframe shop.

What are their duties? That includes things that they nominally aren't
responsible for but where other departments are understaffed or
undertrained and require hand-holding. The sizing depends very much on
organizational details.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Timothy Sipples]

Bart Grijn writes:
>There are large shops that run large mainframes, but they likely run
>other platforms as well and a large part of the manpower will be
>shared across platforms.

That's an excellent point. There's a common accounting measurement (FTEs =
Full-Time Equivalents) used to tally up labor effort when you have
particular individuals working on multiple projects and to provide a level
of abstraction in measurements. That said, a lot of organizations, if they
calculate FTEs, do it badly.

For example, I've seen many cases where the "mainframe team" ends up with
problem determination responsibility for non-specific IT issues. They might
be counted as mainframe FTEs, but they spend much or most of their time
providing network support, desktop support, etc. If FTE calculations were
based on problem outcomes and root causes rather than who happened to take
the call, that'd probably be useful.


Timothy Sipples
Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore)
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Gibney, Dave]

Isn't CICS via VTAM behind many ATMs :)

Dave Gibney
Information Technology Services
Washington State University


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Tony's Comcast account
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:31 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> 
> Wow, imagine running a PCI application on USS.  ;-)
> 

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

MIPs has been around for at least 20 yrs ..PCI not sure...

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:30 PM, "Tony's Comcast account"  
wrote:

> Wow, imagine running a PCI application on USS.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
> Of R.S.
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 1:25 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> 
> W dniu 2012-02-17 19:46, George Henke pisze:
>> tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.
>> 
>> I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
>> Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
>> Radoslaw noted.
>> 
>> Maybe you would like to update Wiki.
>> 
>> Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.
>> 
>> Maybe if I google LSPR.
> 
> It is not clearly described, but 1 PCI = 1 MIPS. PCI is another name for 
> MIPS. Note that MIPS is MISLEADING.
> 
> BTW: I have never seen PCI as a processor power unit anywhere with the 
> exception to LSPR web page and IBM posters.
> 
> BTW: I have several MIPS/PCI/MSU posters in my office, and none from 
> Playboy or Hustler magazine. Is it normal?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 
> 
> --
> Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku
> przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by
> jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste
> adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej
> przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie,
> rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie
> zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo,
> prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale
> usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub
> zapisane na dysku.
> 
> This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is
> intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be
> received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If
> you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised
> to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying,
> distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be
> punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender
> immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete
> permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved
> to hard drive. 
> 
> BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00,
> fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl
> Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru
> Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
> Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2012 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w
> caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.410.984 zotych.
> 
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

stars...@mindspring.com (Lizette Koehler) writes:
> PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.

PCI was somewhat in response to the cal. state data breach discloser
(and later other states) legislation.

we were tangentially involved being, brought in to help wordsmith
the cal. state electronic signature legislation ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#signature

some of the electronic signature participants were also heavily into
privacy issues and had done detailed privacy surveys ... #1 issue kept
coming up "identity theft" of the kind involving fraudulent transactions
from data breaches of one sort or another (skimming, evesdropping,
database compromise; etc ... involving account number
harvesting). little or nothing appeared to being done about such
activity and they hoped that the publicity from data breach
notifications might prompt countermeasures ... in addition to providing
victims the opportunities to do something. part of the issues was that
the owners of the large databases/data-streams ... that had the breaches
... wouldn't be the victims of the fraudulent financial transactions.

in any case, since the passage of the cal. legislation there have been
numerous federal data breach notification bills introduced (none yet
passing), about equally divided between those with similar notification
requirements and those that would eliminate requirement for notification
(in some cases, partially justified on industry actions like PCI).

a couple long-winded recent posts going into related issues of broken
paradigm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#70 Four Sources of Trust, Crypto Not 
Scaling
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#71 Password shortcomings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#94 public key, encryption and trust

-- 
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Tony's Comcast account]

Wow, imagine running a PCI application on USS.  ;-)



  

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of R.S.
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 1:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

W dniu 2012-02-17 19:46, George Henke pisze:
> tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.
>
> I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
> Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
> Radoslaw noted.
>
> Maybe you would like to update Wiki.
>
> Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.
>
> Maybe if I google LSPR.

It is not clearly described, but 1 PCI = 1 MIPS. PCI is another name for 
MIPS. Note that MIPS is MISLEADING.

BTW: I have never seen PCI as a processor power unit anywhere with the 
exception to LSPR web page and IBM posters.

BTW: I have several MIPS/PCI/MSU posters in my office, and none from 
Playboy or Hustler magazine. Is it normal?


-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku
przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by
jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste
adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej
przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie,
rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie
zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo,
prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale
usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub
zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be
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you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised
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punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved
to hard drive. 

BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00,
fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl
Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru
Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2012 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w
caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.410.984 zotych.

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Jihad Kawkabani]

George,
If you follow this Link: 
https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/lib03060.nsf/pages/lsprzOS11MIJuly2010?OpenDocument&pathID=
It will give you a table in which you will see PCI values and their MSU 
equivalent for all Supported zSeries processors. At the top of the Web page 
there is a link to "LSPR measurement methodology"  explaining how these 
measurements are taken.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of George Henke
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 01:46 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> 
> tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.
> 
> I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
> Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
> Radoslaw noted.
> 
> Maybe you would like to update Wiki.
> 
> Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.
> 
>

Regards,
Jihad K Kawkabani
Progressive Insurance
IT Systems Engineer Consultant
Voice: 440.395.0740
Cell: 440.465.2969

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[R.S.]

W dniu 2012-02-17 19:46, George Henke pisze:

tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.

I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
Radoslaw noted.

Maybe you would like to update Wiki.

Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.

Maybe if I google LSPR.


It is not clearly described, but 1 PCI = 1 MIPS. PCI is another name for 
MIPS. Note that MIPS is MISLEADING.


BTW: I have never seen PCI as a processor power unit anywhere with the 
exception to LSPR web page and IBM posters.


BTW: I have several MIPS/PCI/MSU posters in my office, and none from 
Playboy or Hustler magazine. Is it normal?



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie 
jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by 
karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie 
zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo 
wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. 


BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax 
+48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl
Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2012 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.410.984 zotych.


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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

Wiki did not have that one either, just Payment Card Industry.

Maybe someone will care to update Wiki for posterity.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:04 PM, John Gilmore wrote:

> 'PCI' does not have a single, definitive interpretation.
>
> It is yet another overloaded acronym, one that, for sysprogs, often
> means 'Program-Controlled Interrupt'.
>
> On 2/17/12, George Henke  wrote:
> > tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.
> >
> > I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
> > Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
> > Radoslaw noted.
> >
> > Maybe you would like to update Wiki.
> >
> > Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.
> >
> > Maybe if I google LSPR.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jihad Kawkabani <
> > jihad_k_kawkab...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >
> >> PCI - Processor Capacity Index - First calculated/Introduced with the
> z/OS
> >> V1R9 LSPR(Large Systems Performance Reference).
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> >> > Behalf Of George Henke
> >> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 08:29 AM
> >> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> >> > Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> >> >
> >> > tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
> >> >
> >> > Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > (C) 845 401 5614
> >
> > --
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>
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>
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[John Gilmore]

'PCI' does not have a single, definitive interpretation.

It is yet another overloaded acronym, one that, for sysprogs, often
means 'Program-Controlled Interrupt'.

On 2/17/12, George Henke  wrote:
> tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.
>
> I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
> Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
> Radoslaw noted.
>
> Maybe you would like to update Wiki.
>
> Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.
>
> Maybe if I google LSPR.
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jihad Kawkabani <
> jihad_k_kawkab...@progressive.com> wrote:
>
>> PCI - Processor Capacity Index - First calculated/Introduced with the z/OS
>> V1R9 LSPR(Large Systems Performance Reference).
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
>> > Behalf Of George Henke
>> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 08:29 AM
>> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>> > Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
>> >
>> > tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
>> >
>> > Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

tyvm, both Radoslaw again and Jihad.

I had Wikied it but all I got back was Payment Card Industry, not even
Peripheral Component Interconnect.  And that did not fit the context, as
Radoslaw noted.

Maybe you would like to update Wiki.

Now all I need to know is how PCI translates into MIPS and MSUs.

Maybe if I google LSPR.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jihad Kawkabani <
jihad_k_kawkab...@progressive.com> wrote:

> PCI - Processor Capacity Index - First calculated/Introduced with the z/OS
> V1R9 LSPR(Large Systems Performance Reference).
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> > Behalf Of George Henke
> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 08:29 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> >
> > tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
> >
> > Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
> >
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>



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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Sevetson, Phil]

I think you're right.  It was introduced to me the other way by someone who got 
it wrong, and I've had a mental block about it ever since.  Thank you for the 
correction.

--Phil Sevetson

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Field, Alan C.
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

I think you really mean _P_ Payment Card Industry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Sevetson, Phil
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 09:41 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

PCI: 
_P_ersonal 
_C_ard 
_I_ndustry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

>
>tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
>
>Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
>
>
>

PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.

The PCI Security Standards Council offers robust and comprehensive
standards and supporting materials to enhance payment card data
security. These materials include a framework of specifications, tools,
measurements and support resources to help organizations ensure the safe
handling of cardholder information at every step. The keystone is the
PCI Data Security Standard (PCI DSS), which provides an actionable
framework for developing a robust payment card data security process --
including prevention, detection and appropriate reaction to security
incidents.
 
 
For device vendors and manufacturers, the Council provides the PIN
Transaction Security (PTS) requirements, which contains a single set of
requirements for all personal identification number (PIN) terminals,
including POS devices, encrypting PIN pads and unattended payment
terminals. A list of approved PIN transaction devices can be accessed
here.
 
To help software vendors and others develop secure payment applications,
the Council maintains the Payment Application Data Security Standard
(PA-DSS) and a list of Validated Payment Applications.
 
The Council also provides training to professional firms and individuals
so that they can assist organizations with their compliance efforts. The
Council maintains public resources such as lists of Qualified Security
Assessors (QSAs), Payment Application Qualified Security Assessors
(PA-QSAs), and Approved Scanning Vendors (ASVs). Large firms seeking to
educate their employees can take advantage of the Internal Security
Assessor (ISA) education program.
 

Lizette

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Field, Alan C.]

I think you really mean _P_ Payment Card Industry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Sevetson, Phil
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 09:41 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

PCI: 
_P_ersonal 
_C_ard 
_I_ndustry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

>
>tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
>
>Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
>
>
>

PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.

The PCI Security Standards Council offers robust and comprehensive
standards and supporting materials to enhance payment card data
security. These materials include a framework of specifications, tools,
measurements and support resources to help organizations ensure the safe
handling of cardholder information at every step. The keystone is the
PCI Data Security Standard (PCI DSS), which provides an actionable
framework for developing a robust payment card data security process --
including prevention, detection and appropriate reaction to security
incidents.
 
 
For device vendors and manufacturers, the Council provides the PIN
Transaction Security (PTS) requirements, which contains a single set of
requirements for all personal identification number (PIN) terminals,
including POS devices, encrypting PIN pads and unattended payment
terminals. A list of approved PIN transaction devices can be accessed
here.
 
To help software vendors and others develop secure payment applications,
the Council maintains the Payment Application Data Security Standard
(PA-DSS) and a list of Validated Payment Applications.
 
The Council also provides training to professional firms and individuals
so that they can assist organizations with their compliance efforts. The
Council maintains public resources such as lists of Qualified Security
Assessors (QSAs), Payment Application Qualified Security Assessors
(PA-QSAs), and Approved Scanning Vendors (ASVs). Large firms seeking to
educate their employees can take advantage of the Internal Security
Assessor (ISA) education program.
 

Lizette

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Jihad Kawkabani]

PCI - Processor Capacity Index - First calculated/Introduced with the z/OS V1R9 
LSPR(Large Systems Performance Reference).

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of George Henke
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 08:29 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> 
> tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
> 
> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
> 
> 

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

Tyvm Lizette didn't know what it was either. I have a ton of banking customers, 
you just made me a tad smarter...Ty

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 17, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Lizette Koehler  wrote:

>> 
>> tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
>> 
>> Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.
> 
> The PCI Security Standards Council offers robust and comprehensive standards 
> and supporting materials to enhance payment card data security. These 
> materials include a framework of specifications, tools, measurements and 
> support resources to help organizations ensure the safe handling of 
> cardholder information at every step. The keystone is the PCI Data Security 
> Standard (PCI DSS), which provides an actionable framework for developing a 
> robust payment card data security process -- including prevention, detection 
> and appropriate reaction to security incidents.
> 
> 
> For device vendors and manufacturers, the Council provides the PIN 
> Transaction Security (PTS) requirements, which contains a single set of 
> requirements for all personal identification number (PIN) terminals, 
> including POS devices, encrypting PIN pads and unattended payment terminals. 
> A list of approved PIN transaction devices can be accessed here.
> 
> To help software vendors and others develop secure payment applications, the 
> Council maintains the Payment Application Data Security Standard (PA-DSS) and 
> a list of Validated Payment Applications.
> 
> The Council also provides training to professional firms and individuals so 
> that they can assist organizations with their compliance efforts. The Council 
> maintains public resources such as lists of Qualified Security Assessors 
> (QSAs), Payment Application Qualified Security Assessors (PA-QSAs), and 
> Approved Scanning Vendors (ASVs). Large firms seeking to educate their 
> employees can take advantage of the Internal Security Assessor (ISA) 
> education program.
> 
> 
> Lizette
> 
> --
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[R.S.]

Watch the context

https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/lib03060.nsf/pages/lsprzOS19MIOct2008?OpenDocument&pathID=#Toc7

PCI stands for Processor capacity Index

2064-116 has 2882 PCI and 441 MSU.

PCI stands for many other meanings, including IT ones (Peripheral 
Commponent Interconnect).

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 2012-02-17 16:41, Sevetson, Phil pisze:

PCI:
_P_ersonal
_C_ard
_I_ndustry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing



tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?





PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.

The PCI Security Standards Council offers robust and comprehensive standards 
and supporting materials to enhance payment card data security. These materials 
include a framework of specifications, tools, measurements and support 
resources to help organizations ensure the safe handling of cardholder 
information at every step. The keystone is the PCI Data Security Standard (PCI 
DSS), which provides an actionable framework for developing a robust payment 
card data security process -- including prevention, detection and appropriate 
reaction to security incidents.


For device vendors and manufacturers, the Council provides the PIN Transaction 
Security (PTS) requirements, which contains a single set of requirements for 
all personal identification number (PIN) terminals, including POS devices, 
encrypting PIN pads and unattended payment terminals. A list of approved PIN 
transaction devices can be accessed here.

To help software vendors and others develop secure payment applications, the 
Council maintains the Payment Application Data Security Standard (PA-DSS) and a 
list of Validated Payment Applications.

The Council also provides training to professional firms and individuals so 
that they can assist organizations with their compliance efforts. The Council 
maintains public resources such as lists of Qualified Security Assessors 
(QSAs), Payment Application Qualified Security Assessors (PA-QSAs), and 
Approved Scanning Vendors (ASVs). Large firms seeking to educate their 
employees can take advantage of the Internal Security Assessor (ISA) education 
program.


Lizette



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+48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

Yep that's the way I have always experienced the work environment. Worked on a 
10 way they had 60 ppl supporting it but the environment was huge to support ..

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 17, 2012, at 8:23 AM, "van der Grijn, Bart (B)"  
wrote:

> The difficulty with the question is that there likely aren't a lot of large 
> zSeries mainframe-only shops in existence. There are large shops that run 
> large mainframes, but they likely run other platforms as well and a large 
> part of the manpower will be shared across platforms. 
> We have a z/OS sysprog team of 5-8 and a DB2 team of 6-9 (where the 3 are 
> shared z/OS and DB2). All other teams are not dedicated to Mainframe: Change 
> Integration, Operations, Security, network, Scheduling, Facilities, DR, help 
> desk, project management, auditing, etc.
> Depending on what you want to include, you end up with anything between 2 and 
> 200 people per CEC.
> 
> Bart 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf 
> Of George Henke
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> 
> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
> 
> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> 
> 
> -- 
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Sevetson, Phil]

PCI: 
_P_ersonal 
_C_ard 
_I_ndustry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

>
>tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
>
>Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
>
>
>

PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.

The PCI Security Standards Council offers robust and comprehensive standards 
and supporting materials to enhance payment card data security. These materials 
include a framework of specifications, tools, measurements and support 
resources to help organizations ensure the safe handling of cardholder 
information at every step. The keystone is the PCI Data Security Standard (PCI 
DSS), which provides an actionable framework for developing a robust payment 
card data security process -- including prevention, detection and appropriate 
reaction to security incidents.
 
 
For device vendors and manufacturers, the Council provides the PIN Transaction 
Security (PTS) requirements, which contains a single set of requirements for 
all personal identification number (PIN) terminals, including POS devices, 
encrypting PIN pads and unattended payment terminals. A list of approved PIN 
transaction devices can be accessed here.
 
To help software vendors and others develop secure payment applications, the 
Council maintains the Payment Application Data Security Standard (PA-DSS) and a 
list of Validated Payment Applications.
 
The Council also provides training to professional firms and individuals so 
that they can assist organizations with their compliance efforts. The Council 
maintains public resources such as lists of Qualified Security Assessors 
(QSAs), Payment Application Qualified Security Assessors (PA-QSAs), and 
Approved Scanning Vendors (ASVs). Large firms seeking to educate their 
employees can take advantage of the Internal Security Assessor (ISA) education 
program.
 

Lizette

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Lizette Koehler]

>
>tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.
>
>Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?
>
>
>

PCI has to do with Payments for Credit Cards and their security.

The PCI Security Standards Council offers robust and comprehensive standards 
and supporting materials to enhance payment card data security. These materials 
include a framework of specifications, tools, measurements and support 
resources to help organizations ensure the safe handling of cardholder 
information at every step. The keystone is the PCI Data Security Standard (PCI 
DSS), which provides an actionable framework for developing a robust payment 
card data security process -- including prevention, detection and appropriate 
reaction to security incidents.
 
 
For device vendors and manufacturers, the Council provides the PIN Transaction 
Security (PTS) requirements, which contains a single set of requirements for 
all personal identification number (PIN) terminals, including POS devices, 
encrypting PIN pads and unattended payment terminals. A list of approved PIN 
transaction devices can be accessed here.
 
To help software vendors and others develop secure payment applications, the 
Council maintains the Payment Application Data Security Standard (PA-DSS) and a 
list of Validated Payment Applications.
 
The Council also provides training to professional firms and individuals so 
that they can assist organizations with their compliance efforts. The Council 
maintains public resources such as lists of Qualified Security Assessors 
(QSAs), Payment Application Qualified Security Assessors (PA-QSAs), and 
Approved Scanning Vendors (ASVs). Large firms seeking to educate their 
employees can take advantage of the Internal Security Assessor (ISA) education 
program.
 

Lizette

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

Excluding applications

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:18 PM, George Henke  wrote:

> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
>
> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
>
>
> --
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
>



-- 
George Henke
(C) 845 401 5614

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Staller, Allan]

The largest MF shop I have worked for supported 10 sysplex, 44 lpars, at
least 20 processors, across 3 continents.

The support staff was (as best I can recall) z/OS and program products
including most vendor software (9), CICS/VTAM/TCPIP (6), IMS/DB2/MQ
(sysprog only) (5)

DBA's and other were under another manager.

HTH,

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

tyvm, Timothy, for your expert analysis.

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a PCI?


On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:27 AM, Timothy Sipples  wrote:

> George Henke observes:
> >The feedback I have gotten so far, based on a few private replies, is
> about
> >8 - 12 people per CEC.
>
> Maybe, but that doesn't mean when you double the number of CECs you would
> double the number of people, or vice versa. That is, you can't extrapolate
> linearly in either direction, as our meat computers subconsciously often
> do.
>
> For example, let's suppose you were a "big" shop in the year 2002 and you
> were running 10 z900 machines, each configured as 213 models with a PCI of
> 2888 each. So you had 28880 PCIs total, plus some coupling facility
> engines.
>
> Then assume you experienced 8% per year compound growth in capacity (with
> transaction volume growth, etc. -- holding the application set constant for
> this example) so that after a decade you'd end up with approximately 62350
> PCIs (28880*1.08^10). Well, that capacity would fit on a mere two CECs
> today: a pair of z196s, perhaps at capacity setting 742 each (31675 PCIs
> each). An ~80% reduction in floor space, which unfortunately probably got
> more than filled with more expensive and less reliable infrastructure. And
> actually, in practice, when you take 10 footprints down to 2 you tend to
> pick up some nice virtualization benefits, so that's probably too many
> PCIs, never mind possible zIIP and other benefits.
>
> So in that decade would you have also taken a staff of 100 people (10 per
> CEC) and reduced it to 20 people? That would be an order of magnitude jump
> in staff productivity per PCI over 10 years. That seems extreme. Perhaps
> you wouldn't have 100 people (if you started with 100), but I don't think
> you'd have as few as 20 either, ceteris paribus.
>
> I don't think there's any serious disagreement that the mainframe has led
> the way in providing huge productivity improvements just about any way you
> measure it. As a generalization, you mainframers are extraordinarily
> productive, both in comparison to your predecessors and in comparison to
> your non-mainframe peers. (Keep up the good work -- and more, please.)
>
> There are some analysts who have looked at this stuff and who concur with
> the sort of trends and characteristics I describe above. Mainframes are
> characterized by very strong scale economies. There are at least two ways
> to take advantage of that: be big(ger) -- more transactions, more volume,
> more batch with the same or similar application set -- and be broader --
> more applications sharing the same mainframe infrastructure. That doesn't
> mean you can't do fine financially and otherwise running a single
> application at low volumes, but you can do even better bigger and/or
> broader.
>
>
> 
> Timothy Sipples
> Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore)
> E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com
>
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[van der Grijn, Bart (B)]

The difficulty with the question is that there likely aren't a lot of large 
zSeries mainframe-only shops in existence. There are large shops that run large 
mainframes, but they likely run other platforms as well and a large part of the 
manpower will be shared across platforms. 
We have a z/OS sysprog team of 5-8 and a DB2 team of 6-9 (where the 3 are 
shared z/OS and DB2). All other teams are not dedicated to Mainframe: Change 
Integration, Operations, Security, network, Scheduling, Facilities, DR, help 
desk, project management, auditing, etc.
Depending on what you want to include, you end up with anything between 2 and 
200 people per CEC.

Bart 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
George Henke
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: zSeries Manpower Sizing

I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.

Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.


-- 
George Henke
(C) 845 401 5614

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Timothy Sipples]

George Henke observes:
>The feedback I have gotten so far, based on a few private replies, is
about
>8 - 12 people per CEC.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean when you double the number of CECs you would
double the number of people, or vice versa. That is, you can't extrapolate
linearly in either direction, as our meat computers subconsciously often
do.

For example, let's suppose you were a "big" shop in the year 2002 and you
were running 10 z900 machines, each configured as 213 models with a PCI of
2888 each. So you had 28880 PCIs total, plus some coupling facility
engines.

Then assume you experienced 8% per year compound growth in capacity (with
transaction volume growth, etc. -- holding the application set constant for
this example) so that after a decade you'd end up with approximately 62350
PCIs (28880*1.08^10). Well, that capacity would fit on a mere two CECs
today: a pair of z196s, perhaps at capacity setting 742 each (31675 PCIs
each). An ~80% reduction in floor space, which unfortunately probably got
more than filled with more expensive and less reliable infrastructure. And
actually, in practice, when you take 10 footprints down to 2 you tend to
pick up some nice virtualization benefits, so that's probably too many
PCIs, never mind possible zIIP and other benefits.

So in that decade would you have also taken a staff of 100 people (10 per
CEC) and reduced it to 20 people? That would be an order of magnitude jump
in staff productivity per PCI over 10 years. That seems extreme. Perhaps
you wouldn't have 100 people (if you started with 100), but I don't think
you'd have as few as 20 either, ceteris paribus.

I don't think there's any serious disagreement that the mainframe has led
the way in providing huge productivity improvements just about any way you
measure it. As a generalization, you mainframers are extraordinarily
productive, both in comparison to your predecessors and in comparison to
your non-mainframe peers. (Keep up the good work -- and more, please.)

There are some analysts who have looked at this stuff and who concur with
the sort of trends and characteristics I describe above. Mainframes are
characterized by very strong scale economies. There are at least two ways
to take advantage of that: be big(ger) -- more transactions, more volume,
more batch with the same or similar application set -- and be broader --
more applications sharing the same mainframe infrastructure. That doesn't
mean you can't do fine financially and otherwise running a single
application at low volumes, but you can do even better bigger and/or
broader.


Timothy Sipples
Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore)
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

John,
I worked a twin 4381 VM and VM/VSE shop for awhile and we had about the same 
amount of ppl

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 16, 2012, at 7:29 PM, "Roberts, John J"  wrote:

> My experience as a SYSPROG was a while back at a smallish insurance company 
> in Vancouver. IIRC, this was a mid-size ES9000 running OS/390, CICS/ESA, and 
> DB2.  I think we had TCP/IP networking via Token-Ring attachment to a 3174 
> controller.  I know we all ran DOS PC's running some 3270 emulator.
> 
> The systems department consisted of five guys:
> (1) One guy who specialized in the OS.
> (2) Myself who did the DB2 systems programming and DBA work.  I also helped 
> with CICS.
> (3) Another who did mostly CICS.
> (4) A team lead who did a little of everything, but mostly took care of the 
> network and storage management.
> (5) A junior guy would supported all the third party software.
> 
> And there was a manager who also had responsibility for the small app support 
> team.
> 
> I would consider this about the bare minimum for any z/OS shop.  Consider too 
> that our users were mostly 9 to 5 weekdays people.  So we did not need extra 
> bodies to support 24x7 operations.  During the summer we were a bit 
> stretched, sometimes with 2 people absent on vacation.  But four of the five 
> were pretty senior and could cover other areas in a pinch.
> 
> John
> 
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Roberts, John J]

My experience as a SYSPROG was a while back at a smallish insurance company in 
Vancouver. IIRC, this was a mid-size ES9000 running OS/390, CICS/ESA, and DB2.  
I think we had TCP/IP networking via Token-Ring attachment to a 3174 
controller.  I know we all ran DOS PC's running some 3270 emulator.

The systems department consisted of five guys:
(1) One guy who specialized in the OS.
(2) Myself who did the DB2 systems programming and DBA work.  I also helped 
with CICS.
(3) Another who did mostly CICS.
(4) A team lead who did a little of everything, but mostly took care of the 
network and storage management.
(5) A junior guy would supported all the third party software.

And there was a manager who also had responsibility for the small app support 
team.

I would consider this about the bare minimum for any z/OS shop.  Consider too 
that our users were mostly 9 to 5 weekdays people.  So we did not need extra 
bodies to support 24x7 operations.  During the summer we were a bit stretched, 
sometimes with 2 people absent on vacation.  But four of the five were pretty 
senior and could cover other areas in a pinch.

John

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Gibney, Dave]

Well, I can say that one is not really enough, but some of us try. 
I think I could keep z/OS current, plus a few other ISV products, if there 
wasn't day to day needs and the occasional urgent demand for special requests.

Dave Gibney
Information Technology Services
Washington State University


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of George Henke
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:19 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: zSeries Manpower Sizing
> 
> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
> 
> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> 
> 
> --
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

George,
I have worked for 20+ shops consulting and full time, this one I referred to 
was European HQ.
Most of the other places systems staffs were 20+ , I worked most of those shops 
in NYC, numbers are small also, because of this economy, cutbacks.

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:37 PM, George Henke  wrote:

> ty, Scott, but 200 people must have supported many data centers.
> 
> The feedback I have gotten so far, based on a few private replies, is about
> 8 - 12 people per CEC.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
> 
>> George,
>> I worked for a large American company aboard, one of the top 5 in the
>> world, we has a staff including mgmt around 200, that was MVS , VM ,
>> Communications, and DR.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Scott Ford
>> Senior Systems Engineer
>> www.identityforge.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:19 PM, George Henke  wrote:
>> 
>>> That is not my intent.
>>> 
>>> Please do not divulge anything with which you do not feel comfortable.
>>> 
>>> "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."  Thomas Gray
>>> 
>>> I am just trying to get a sense, a reasonability check, on how
>>> labor-intensive a large zSeries shop is.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Scott Ford 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...
 
 Sent from my iPad
 Scott Ford
 Senior Systems Engineer
 www.identityforge.com
 
 
 
 On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler 
 wrote:
 
>> 
>> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS,
 z/VM,
>> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe
>> shop.
>> 
>> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> George Henke
>> (C) 845 401 5614
>> 
> 
> George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
> 
> What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix,
>> external
> contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ),
>> and
 so
> on.
> 
> You can find titles like
> z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
> Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and
>> so
> many more.
> 
> I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a
 broad
> question.
> 
> Could you narrow it down a bit?
> 
> What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like
 asking
> some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.
 If
> you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
> 
> 
> Lizette
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
 
 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> George Henke
>>> (C) 845 401 5614
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
> 
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

ty, Scott, but 200 people must have supported many data centers.

The feedback I have gotten so far, based on a few private replies, is about
8 - 12 people per CEC.


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:

> George,
> I worked for a large American company aboard, one of the top 5 in the
> world, we has a staff including mgmt around 200, that was MVS , VM ,
> Communications, and DR.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Scott Ford
> Senior Systems Engineer
> www.identityforge.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:19 PM, George Henke  wrote:
>
> > That is not my intent.
> >
> > Please do not divulge anything with which you do not feel comfortable.
> >
> > "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."  Thomas Gray
> >
> > I am just trying to get a sense, a reasonability check, on how
> > labor-intensive a large zSeries shop is.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Scott Ford 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> Scott Ford
> >> Senior Systems Engineer
> >> www.identityforge.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> 
>  I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS,
> >> z/VM,
>  VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe
> shop.
> 
>  Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> 
> 
>  --
>  George Henke
>  (C) 845 401 5614
> 
> >>>
> >>> George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
> >>>
> >>> What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix,
> external
> >>> contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ),
> and
> >> so
> >>> on.
> >>>
> >>> You can find titles like
> >>> z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
> >>> Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and
> so
> >>> many more.
> >>>
> >>> I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a
> >> broad
> >>> question.
> >>>
> >>> Could you narrow it down a bit?
> >>>
> >>> What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like
> >> asking
> >>> some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.
> >> If
> >>> you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Lizette
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
> >> --
> >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > George Henke
> > (C) 845 401 5614
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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>



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(C) 845 401 5614

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

George,
I worked for a large American company aboard, one of the top 5 in the world, we 
has a staff including mgmt around 200, that was MVS , VM , Communications, and 
DR.

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:19 PM, George Henke  wrote:

> That is not my intent.
> 
> Please do not divulge anything with which you do not feel comfortable.
> 
> "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."  Thomas Gray
> 
> I am just trying to get a sense, a reasonability check, on how
> labor-intensive a large zSeries shop is.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
> 
>> Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Scott Ford
>> Senior Systems Engineer
>> www.identityforge.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler 
>> wrote:
>> 
 
 I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS,
>> z/VM,
 VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
 
 Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
 
 
 --
 George Henke
 (C) 845 401 5614
 
>>> 
>>> George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
>>> 
>>> What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix, external
>>> contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ), and
>> so
>>> on.
>>> 
>>> You can find titles like
>>> z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
>>> Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and so
>>> many more.
>>> 
>>> I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a
>> broad
>>> question.
>>> 
>>> Could you narrow it down a bit?
>>> 
>>> What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like
>> asking
>>> some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.
>> If
>>> you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lizette
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
> 
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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

That is not my intent.

Please do not divulge anything with which you do not feel comfortable.

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."  Thomas Gray

I am just trying to get a sense, a reasonability check, on how
labor-intensive a large zSeries shop is.


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:

> Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Scott Ford
> Senior Systems Engineer
> www.identityforge.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler 
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS,
> z/VM,
> >> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
> >>
> >> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> George Henke
> >> (C) 845 401 5614
> >>
> >
> > George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
> >
> > What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix, external
> > contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ), and
> so
> > on.
> >
> > You can find titles like
> > z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
> > Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and so
> > many more.
> >
> > I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a
> broad
> > question.
> >
> > Could you narrow it down a bit?
> >
> > What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like
> asking
> > some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.
>  If
> > you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
> >
> >
> > Lizette
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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>



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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Scott Ford]

Yep Lizette, and how much money is in the budget ...

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Lizette Koehler  wrote:

>> 
>> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
>> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
>> 
>> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> George Henke
>> (C) 845 401 5614
>> 
> 
> George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
> 
> What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix, external
> contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ), and so
> on.
> 
> You can find titles like
> z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
> Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and so
> many more.
> 
> I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a broad
> question.
> 
> Could you narrow it down a bit?
> 
> What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like asking
> some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.  If
> you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
> 
> 
> Lizette
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: FW: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

ty Lizette,

I am just trying to get a general idea of how many people a typical large
zSeries shop needs running whatever on whatever as long as it is *big* and
*blue* and wears a *z*.

IOW if you think you are a large zSeries shop how many other people like
you are around and what do they do, what do they support.


>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:21 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing
>
> >
> > I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS,
> z/VM,
> > VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
> >
> > Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> >
> >
> > --
> > George Henke
> > (C) 845 401 5614
> >
>
> George the only answer I can give is - It Depends
>
> What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix, external
> contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ), and so
> on.
>
> You can find titles like
> z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
> Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and so
> many more.
>
> I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a broad
> question.
>
> Could you narrow it down a bit?
>
> What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like asking
> some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.  If
> you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.
>
>
> Lizette
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>




-- 
George Henke
(C) 845 401 5614

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Re: zSeries Manpower Sizing

[Lizette Koehler]

> 
> I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
> VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.
> 
> Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.
> 
> 
> --
> George Henke
> (C) 845 401 5614
> 

George the only answer I can give is - It Depends

What is the hardware layout, how many mips, SLAs, software mix, external
contacts (vendors, business partners), transmission types (NJE, MQ), and so
on.

You can find titles like
z/OS System programmer, z/OS System Administrator, Security officer,
Application developers, Network Security, Network Administrators, and so
many more.

I know of no concise list that would give you information for such a broad
question.

Could you narrow it down a bit?

What is your definition of LARGE.  From my vantage point, it is like asking
some one what is a tall person.  If you are 3ft tall, then 5ft is tall.  If
you are 6ft tall, then 5ft is small.  All is relative.


Lizette

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zSeries Manpower Sizing

[George Henke]

I am trying to find out how much staff, numbers and titles, eg z/OS, z/VM,
VTAM/TCPIP, CICS, etc, are needed to run a large zSeries mainframe shop.

Would some of you be so kind as to share that information with me.


-- 
George Henke
(C) 845 401 5614

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