Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Charles Mills]

You never get a specification exception ON a branch, but a specification 
exception may be CAUSED by a branch (per the below ).


CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> 
Date: 7/2/16  5:25 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Highest address "below the bar" 

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 16:06:49 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>
>> ... If an address
>>> contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.
>>>
>> Hmmm.  If you branch to it, do you get an addressing exception or a
>> specification exception.  I'd guess the latter, but it might be model
>> dependent.
>
>It's not model dependent. You never get a specification exception on a
>branch.
> 
??? From: 
    CICS Transaction Server
    CICS Transaction Server 5.2.0
    Troubleshooting and support
    Dealing with the problem
    Dealing with transaction abend codes
    What type of program check occurred?
    ...
6
    Specification exception - incorrect format of an instruction or invalid 
registers.
    Possible causes are as follows:
    Overlaid program
    Incorrect field lengths used in packed decimal multiply and divide 
instructions
    Branch to an odd-numbered address, caused by an overlaid register save 
area

-- gil

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Charles Mills wrote:


At a company apparently so into customer satisfaction.



Again, if you click the little weird blue widget in the upper left, you get 
essentially the same drop-down view of the
libraries to read online or download PDF's as you always got. Just the style 
sheet and javascript have changed.

The search engine sucks badly. Google does better for me at finding IBM stuff 
than IBM's own engine.
What is Watson up to? Get his silicon a** busy on the search engine ...

But I think IBM is reaching out to a younger market. We're a bunch of old 
farts. This is a move to mobile. I remember
sitting around IBM Boulder 20 years ago listening to a 67-year-old and 
excellent IBM VM programmer rant about how useless
GUIs are. Now he's gone and I'm 64.

You gotta make way for youth, they only know what they know. We can adapt to their world. Or retire. But complaining is 
self-abuse.


--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre and Browsers

[zMan]

Assuming you can *find* the damned PDFs! That takes a while now. Sad what
IBM has become.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:14 AM, nitz-ibm  wrote:

> > * Disable any script blocker. *
>
> Well, if you only allow cookies selectively, then it is hell browsing IBM
> websites if you are forced into disabling script blockers. I should know, I
> get forced into using IE with scripts enabled (cannot disable them). What
> happens is that there is a general script on *all* IBM websites that tells
> you that you can configure cookies, and of course allowing IBM to litter
> the computer liberally with cookies is the default. If you only allow the
> cookies needed for the website to function, you're forced to twiddle your
> thumbs for more than a minute. And again if you happen to switch from an
> ibm.com to an ibm.de website. I hate it. Not to mention that even SIS
> didn't work properly under IE.
>
> As for knowledge center - I avoid it whenever I can. I'd rather use the
> pdfs (which I also heartily dislike), but for fast and easy information
> retrieval I still go back to the 1.13 bookmanager books residing on my own
> private toy laptop (that will never see the internet since it runs W10). As
> time goes by, I'll be forced more and more into the pdfs, though. At that
> time the toy laptop will switch to Debian. :-)
>
> The internet isn't anymore what it used to be, as far as I am concerned.
>
> Barbara
>
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Charles Mills]

At a company apparently so into customer satisfaction. 
CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: zMan  
Date: 7/2/16  6:57 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre 

What Vignesh said. Good lord, this is unusable. Assuming the mostly broken
search even finds something that sounds plausible, you click through and if
it's not right, your only option is to go back and try again. And you don't
even get back to where you were when you do so!

What is wrong with people who go to all this trouble to design interfaces
that are broken? And how does anyone sign off on such an "improvement"??

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh <
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com> wrote:

> It made sense when there was a tree structure to the left; it was easy to
> navigate.
> Now the entire page is just a tiny section of a paragraph or something.
> Not helpful!
> By default, nowadays, I Google "os-version elements and features" which
> leads me to the PDF's.
>
> – Vignesh
> Mainframe Infrastructure
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Jack J. Woehr
> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre
>
> Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> > PDF!?  On a mobile!?
> >
> > It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!
>
> I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to
> expand 'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.
>
> Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally
> different visual and spacial mindset about information presentation.
>
> We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they
> can't parse the views.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human
> fallibility. - Carl Sagan
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
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> 
>  Unless otherwise stated above:
> Marks and Spencer plc
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> London
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>
> Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.
>
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>
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[zMan]

What Vignesh said. Good lord, this is unusable. Assuming the mostly broken
search even finds something that sounds plausible, you click through and if
it's not right, your only option is to go back and try again. And you don't
even get back to where you were when you do so!

What is wrong with people who go to all this trouble to design interfaces
that are broken? And how does anyone sign off on such an "improvement"??

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh <
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com> wrote:

> It made sense when there was a tree structure to the left; it was easy to
> navigate.
> Now the entire page is just a tiny section of a paragraph or something.
> Not helpful!
> By default, nowadays, I Google "os-version elements and features" which
> leads me to the PDF's.
>
> – Vignesh
> Mainframe Infrastructure
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Jack J. Woehr
> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre
>
> Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> > PDF!?  On a mobile!?
> >
> > It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!
>
> I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to
> expand 'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.
>
> Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally
> different visual and spacial mindset about information presentation.
>
> We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they
> can't parse the views.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human
> fallibility. - Carl Sagan
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
> 
>  Unless otherwise stated above:
> Marks and Spencer plc
> Registered Office:
> Waterside House
> 35 North Wharf Road
> London
> W2 1NW
>
> Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.
>
> Telephone (020) 7935 4422
> Facsimile (020) 7487 2670
>
> www.marksandspencer.com
>
> Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.
>
> This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us
> know and then delete it from your system; you should not copy, disclose, or
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> this is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>
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Re: Multithreaded output to stderr and stdout

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:33:46 -0700, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>mike.lamart...@mcleansoft.com (Mike La Martina) writes:
>> After reading the story of Compare and Swap for, lo, all these many years, I
>> am sorry but I must ask.
>>
>> Charlie who?
>
>aka Charlie's initials are CAS ... part of the effort was to choose
>mnemonic (compare-and-swap) that were Charlie's initials
>http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
>
>IBM funds MIT project athena for $25M and then DEC funds another $25M,
>both IBM and DEC get an associate director of Project Athena.  Charlie
>leaves the science center
>http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
>and becomes the IBM associate director of Project athena (pg 10):
>http://simson.net/ref/athena/Q_and_A_Draft_October31_1986.pdf
>
>
E... https://xkcd.com/1640/

-- gil

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Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Walt Farrell]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 19:25:16 -0500, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 16:06:49 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>>
>>> ... If an address
 contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.

>>> Hmmm.  If you branch to it, do you get an addressing exception or a
>>> specification exception.  I'd guess the latter, but it might be model
>>> dependent.
>>
>>It's not model dependent. You never get a specification exception on a
>>branch.
>> 
>??? From: 
>CICS Transaction Server
>CICS Transaction Server 5.2.0
>Troubleshooting and support
>Dealing with the problem
>Dealing with transaction abend codes
>What type of program check occurred?
>...
>6
>Specification exception - incorrect format of an instruction or invalid 
> registers.
>Possible causes are as follows:
>Overlaid program
>Incorrect field lengths used in packed decimal multiply and divide 
> instructions
>Branch to an odd-numbered address, caused by an overlaid register save 
> area

It may be pedantic, but it really isn't an exception generated by the branch 
itself. The various "branch" instructions generate very few exceptions. If you 
look at the PoPs you'll typically see them generating only Trace and 
Transaction Constraint exceptions.

From the PoPs, it's true that if you branch to an odd address you'll get a 
specification exception. However, the exception happens later, after the branch 
has finished, when the system notices the odd address in the PSW.

-- 
Walt

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Re: Multithreaded output to stderr and stdout

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

mike.lamart...@mcleansoft.com (Mike La Martina) writes:
> After reading the story of Compare and Swap for, lo, all these many years, I
> am sorry but I must ask.
>
> Charlie who?

aka Charlie's initials are CAS ... part of the effort was to choose
mnemonic (compare-and-swap) that were Charlie's initials
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

IBM funds MIT project athena for $25M and then DEC funds another $25M,
both IBM and DEC get an associate director of Project Athena.  Charlie
leaves the science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
and becomes the IBM associate director of Project athena (pg 10):
http://simson.net/ref/athena/Q_and_A_Draft_October31_1986.pdf

(don't list a DEC person yet, pg3 list financing of $25M by both IBM &
DEC)

another ref at the bottom here
http://tech-insider.org/unix/research/1987/0901.html

In late80s/early90s time-frame one of the things we got to do was IBM
periodic review Project Athena (at that time both DEC and IBM had
assosciate directors). One of the visits was in the middle of designing
Kerberos cross-domain support (that I was asked to sit thru). decade
later was sitting thru industry presentation on SAML implementation for
coalition forces ... and pointed out that their SAML message flows were
the same as the Kerberos cross-domain message flows.
http://web.mit.edu/kerberos/
http://www.kerberos.org/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Assertion_Markup_Language

Other trivia ... with the legal actions and 23June1969 unbundling
announcement ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle

IBM also cuts way back on its univ. programs and educational discounts.
With the winding down of these efforts in the early 80s, IBM creates
the univ. ACIS organization, initially has $300M fund to support
univ. activities. Some of it goes to fund much of BITNET (& EARN)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet

where this (ibm-main) mailing list originated. $25M for Project Atena
comes from ACIS. There is also $50M for CMU (MACH ... shows up in NeXT
and apple/OS when Jobs returns; camelot, andrew filesystem, etc) and
many other univ. programs.

one of the biggest users of kerberos is:
https://software.intel.com/sites/manageability/AMT_Implementation_and_Reference_Guide/WordDocuments/microsoftactivedirectoryandkerberossupport.htm

originally implemented under contract by small corporation in seattle
area that specialized in kerberos. The CEO of the small corporation at
the time, had previously been head of the POK mainframe division ... and
later was head of the PC division and involved in some of the
OS2/windows issues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2

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Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 16:06:49 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>
>> ... If an address
>>> contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.
>>>
>> Hmmm.  If you branch to it, do you get an addressing exception or a
>> specification exception.  I'd guess the latter, but it might be model
>> dependent.
>
>It's not model dependent. You never get a specification exception on a
>branch.
> 
??? From: 
CICS Transaction Server
CICS Transaction Server 5.2.0
Troubleshooting and support
Dealing with the problem
Dealing with transaction abend codes
What type of program check occurred?
...
6
Specification exception - incorrect format of an instruction or invalid 
registers.
Possible causes are as follows:
Overlaid program
Incorrect field lengths used in packed decimal multiply and divide 
instructions
Branch to an odd-numbered address, caused by an overlaid register save 
area

-- gil

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Re: Minimum Volume Sizes in the Wild

[Ed Jaffe]

On 6/28/2016 9:19 AM, John Eells wrote:

What is the *smallest* volume size everyone sees in general use?

For example, will we create any problems if we assume that "everyone" 
has or can define at least a 3390-9 size volume these days?  What if 
we chose 3390-27?


We use three sizes only: mod-9, mod-27, and mod-216. The only reason we 
still maintain mod-9s is because that is the format used by the software 
sent to us by IBM.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/2/2016 9:56 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 08:27:12 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:

The secondary reason is IEBEYEBALL of dumps, traces, etc. If an address
contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.


Hmmm.  If you branch to it, do you get an addressing exception or a
specification exception.  I'd guess the latter, but it might be model
dependent.


It's not model dependent. You never get a specification exception on a 
branch.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Multithreaded output to stderr and stdout

[Mike La Martina]

After reading the story of Compare and Swap for, lo, all these many years, I
am sorry but I must ask.

Charlie who?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 12:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Multithreaded output to stderr and stdout

000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu (Paul Gilmartin) writes:
> I'm trying to envision how to use WAIT/POST to do that since no more 
> than one task can be WAITing on a given ECB.  I vaguely recall long 
> ago writing code that used a variant of a CS example in PoOps to 
> manage a queue of ECBs.

charlie had invented compare-and-swap when he was doing fine-grain
multiprocessing locking for cp67 at the science center ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

initial attempts to get it included as part of 370 were repulsed, the
370 architecture owners said that the POK favorite son operating system
people (os/360 and descendants) were saying that TS (test) was more than
sufficient for multiprocessor support (they had been coming from a single
global system spin-lock that was obtained by first-level interupt handlers).

thus was born the science center examples how multi-threaded applications
(not necessarily running on multiprocessor) could use compare-and-swap ...
that still appear in princples of operation.

early application uptake of compare-and-swap were the large multi-threaded
DBMS and transaction processing. In the 80s, you start seeing other hardware
platforms implementing instructions with comapre-and-swap semantics
(especially those selling into transaction and DBMS markets).

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Re: Multithreaded output to stderr and stdout

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu (Paul Gilmartin) writes:
> I'm trying to envision how to use WAIT/POST to do that since no
> more than one task can be WAITing on a given ECB.  I vaguely recall
> long ago writing code that used a variant of a CS example in PoOps
> to manage a queue of ECBs.

charlie had invented compare-and-swap when he was doing fine-grain
multiprocessing locking for cp67 at the science center ... some
past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

initial attempts to get it included as part of 370 were repulsed, the
370 architecture owners said that the POK favorite son operating system
people (os/360 and descendants) were saying that TS (test) was more
than sufficient for multiprocessor support (they had been coming from a
single global system spin-lock that was obtained by first-level interupt
handlers).

thus was born the science center examples how multi-threaded
applications (not necessarily running on multiprocessor) could use
compare-and-swap ... that still appear in princples of operation.

early application uptake of compare-and-swap were the large
multi-threaded DBMS and transaction processing. In the 80s, you start
seeing other hardware platforms implementing instructions with
comapre-and-swap semantics (especially those selling into transaction
and DBMS markets).

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Tom Conley]

On 7/2/2016 11:27 AM, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 7/1/2016 10:33 PM, Paul Schuster wrote:

Ed:

Can you elaborate on the reason(s) for your methodology:

"We routinely load base registers and "uninitialized" pointers to
7000 (or sometimes 7BAD) rather than zero."

The one reason I can visualize is that instead of unintentionally
accessing something in low core you would experience a S0C4 instead.


That is the #1 reason! Of course, we now have the ZAD PER interrupt to
help catch accidental references to page zero that occur during in-house
testing, but that's not nearly as effective as a straight-up 0C4 abend!

The secondary reason is IEBEYEBALL of dumps, traces, etc. If an address
contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.



Great, IEBIBALL has been replaced by IEBEYEBALL?  No wonder it's not 
working for me anymore, program object out of a PDSE


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 08:27:12 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>
>The secondary reason is IEBEYEBALL of dumps, traces, etc. If an address
>contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.
> 
Hmmm.  If you branch to it, do you get an addressing exception or a
specification exception.  I'd guess the latter, but it might be model
dependent.

And it might be a good value for NULL if programmers could be relied
on to use casting rather than type punning.

-- gil

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Re: Highest address "below the bar"

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/1/2016 10:33 PM, Paul Schuster wrote:

Ed:

Can you elaborate on the reason(s) for your methodology:

"We routinely load base registers and "uninitialized" pointers to
7000 (or sometimes 7BAD) rather than zero."

The one reason I can visualize is that instead of unintentionally
accessing something in low core you would experience a S0C4 instead.


That is the #1 reason! Of course, we now have the ZAD PER interrupt to 
help catch accidental references to page zero that occur during in-house 
testing, but that's not nearly as effective as a straight-up 0C4 abend!


The secondary reason is IEBEYEBALL of dumps, traces, etc. If an address 
contains 7BAD then you know it's an intentionally "bad" address.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: z/OS V2.1 MVS Data Area manuals missing in the Knowledge Center

[Peter Relson]

I believe that the data areas for z/OS 2.1 were never available within 
Knowledge Center, available only via PDF (such as by the link that John 
Eells provided).

An improvement in the process by which those books are produced has let 
them become part of Knowledge Center for z/OS 2.2.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: Multithreaded output to stderr and stdout

[Don Poitras]

In article <5452732228714303.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu> you wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:38:14 -0400, Don Poitras wrote:
> >
> >I wrote the support in SAS/C for handling multiple tasks writing to the same
> >sysout DD. I used WAIT/POST rather than ENQ/DEQ.
> >
> >https://support.sas.com/documentation/onlinedoc/sasc/doc750/html/clug/zntimeop.htm#zid-1494
> >
> I'm trying to envision how to use WAIT/POST to do that since no
> more than one task can be WAITing on a given ECB.  I vaguely recall
> long ago writing code that used a variant of a CS example in PoOps
> to manage a queue of ECBs.

> -- gil

Yes, a linked-list of control blocks serialized with CS. If the lock
is already held, add yourself to the list and wait on the ECB in the
control block. When the owner of the lock releases it, POST the first
waiter on the queue.

-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre and Browsers

[nitz-ibm]

> * Disable any script blocker. *

Well, if you only allow cookies selectively, then it is hell browsing IBM 
websites if you are forced into disabling script blockers. I should know, I get 
forced into using IE with scripts enabled (cannot disable them). What happens 
is that there is a general script on *all* IBM websites that tells you that you 
can configure cookies, and of course allowing IBM to litter the computer 
liberally with cookies is the default. If you only allow the cookies needed for 
the website to function, you're forced to twiddle your thumbs for more than a 
minute. And again if you happen to switch from an ibm.com to an ibm.de website. 
I hate it. Not to mention that even SIS didn't work properly under IE. 

As for knowledge center - I avoid it whenever I can. I'd rather use the pdfs 
(which I also heartily dislike), but for fast and easy information retrieval I 
still go back to the 1.13 bookmanager books residing on my own private toy 
laptop (that will never see the internet since it runs W10). As time goes by, 
I'll be forced more and more into the pdfs, though. At that time the toy laptop 
will switch to Debian. :-)

The internet isn't anymore what it used to be, as far as I am concerned.

Barbara

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh]

It made sense when there was a tree structure to the left; it was easy to 
navigate.
Now the entire page is just a tiny section of a paragraph or something. Not 
helpful!
By default, nowadays, I Google "os-version elements and features" which leads 
me to the PDF's.

– Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> PDF!?  On a mobile!?
>
> It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!

I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to expand 
'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.

Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally 
different visual and spacial mindset about information presentation.

We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they can't 
parse the views.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe 
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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