Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Holy Moly ...

2022-02-16 Thread Bob Bridges 
They could send each other emails privately, but that would kind of miss the 
point, wouldn't it?  Their barbs are ostensibly aimed at each other, but we're 
the intended audience.  Without the audience this would quickly die away.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Winning is a habit.  Unfortunately, so is losing.  -Vince Lombardi */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Pommier, Rex
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 10:04

Would you two take your spitting match someplace off IBM-main?  The rest of us 
don't want to hear it.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:03 AM

Profits can’t be negative unless the company is fraudulently reporting. You’re 
out of your league. 

--- On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:46 AM, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:
Whoosh! What that means is that there are plenty of examples of massive changes 
in stock prices that had nothing to do with profitability.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up cash flow being negative; that has 
nothing to do with the issue. And, yes, pprofits can also be negative.


From: Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:22 AM

LOLOLOLOL, what does that even mean? Uber is a prime example of NEGATIVE cash 
flow. They’ve NEVER turned a profit to date & their negative cash flow has been 
in the billions since they went public in 2019. Explains why the stock is 
significantly below their IPO price. And the internet bubble is a real thing. 
So is the housing bubble.

--- On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:15 AM, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:
Yeah, and the dot com crash never happened.


From: Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 11:17 PM

Again, cash flow can be positive OR NEGATIVE. Profits are what drives stock 
prices, executive compensation, and investment. Revenue drives SOME stocks, 
mostly newer ones, who invest big for future profits. Which generates negative 
cash flow until they reach profitability stage and growth (and investment) 
begins to slow. Executive compensation has almost nothing to do with corporate 
profitability. In fact many companies pay executives in stock options not cash. 
You really don’t know what you’re talking about. The S 500 index is a factor 
of profits times a multiple. Current 2022 estimate of S 500 profits is 
estimated at $235 and approximately a 22 multiple. Giving the index a 5170 
valuation right around where most banks and investment houses project the index 
will finish in 22.

--- On Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 9:50 PM, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:
That's a non sequitur. You've just proven my point.

Actions taken to improve profits take a long time to have the desired effect. 
Stock prices are driven by what happens in the near term. That's cash flow, not 
profits.

Most top level executives seek to maximize their compensation, even if that is 
at the expense of the long term profitability of their company.


From: Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:45 AM

Then there was no need for the 1967 age discrimination law! LOL I’m not 
confusing anything. This article is a continuation of the age discrimination 
lawsuit filed by IBM employees in 2018. Most companies do it to maximize 
profits since profits make the stock price go up and the executives and 
shareholders benefit when profits go up. Cash flow can be positive or negative.

--- On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:34 AM, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:
You're confusing cash flow with profits. Unless there are external constraints, 
wages don't increase by themselves. The natural behavior in capitalism is to 
not give raises unless it would cost you more for the employee to leave..


From: Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:10 AM

Profits are maximized by getting rid of the older, higher cost (wages & health 
care) employees and hiring younger lower cost ones. Pretty standard capitalism.

--- On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:05 AM, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:
No, capitalism is designed to maximize profits. Out of control speculation has 
shifted the emphasis to cash flow, which would have appalled Adam Smith.

What happens in a rational market is that employees don't give raises unless 
there is a labor shortage, and that employers try to keep productive workers. 
This is especially true when they've spent a lot of money on training.


From: Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:59 AM

I didn’t say YOU pushed them out the door. The cycle of replacing

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Holy Moly ...

2022-02-16 Thread Robert Prins 
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 at 15:04, Pommier, Rex  wrote:

> Would you two take your spitting match someplace off IBM-main?  The rest
> of us don't want to hear it.
>

And can you stop adding the whole fecking

discussion to your 1-line post?
-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Holy Moly ...

2022-02-16 Thread Pommier, Rex 
Would you two take your spitting match someplace off IBM-main?  The rest of us 
don't want to hear it.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Holy Moly ...

Profits can’t be negative unless the company is fraudulently reporting. You’re 
out of your league. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:46 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

Whoosh! What that means is that there are plenty of examples of massive changes 
in stock prices that had nothing to do with profitability.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up cash flow being negative; that has 
nothing to do with the issue. And, yes, pprofits can also be negative.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!5KXt758Xm6HFeA8BVCGJzkkwXVO4fi1JXSVNrRmXb7gnK8cKbgTWN6Tak9DeYOnf_A$
 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...

LOLOLOLOL, what does that even mean? Uber is a prime example of NEGATIVE cash 
flow. They’ve NEVER turned a profit to date & their negative cash flow has been 
in the billions since they went public in 2019. Explains why the stock is 
significantly below their IPO price. And the internet bubble is a real thing. 
So is the housing bubble.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:15 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

Yeah, and the dot com crash never happened.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!5KXt758Xm6HFeA8BVCGJzkkwXVO4fi1JXSVNrRmXb7gnK8cKbgTWN6Tak9DeYOnf_A$
 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 11:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...

Again, cash flow can be positive OR NEGATIVE. Profits are what drives stock 
prices, executive compensation, and investment. Revenue drives SOME stocks, 
mostly newer ones, who invest big for future profits. Which generates negative 
cash flow until they reach profitability stage and growth (and investment) 
begins to slow. Executive compensation has almost nothing to do with corporate 
profitability. In fact many companies pay executives in stock options not cash. 
You really don’t know what you’re talking about. The S 500 index is a factor 
of profits times a multiple. Current 2022 estimate of S 500 profits is 
estimated at $235 and approximately a 22 multiple. Giving the index a 5170 
valuation right around where most banks and investment houses project the index 
will finish in 22.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 9:50 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

That's a non sequitur. You've just proven my point.

Actions taken to improve profits take a long time to have the desired effect. 
Stock prices are driven by what happens in the near term. That's cash flow, not 
profits.

Most top level executives seek to maximize their compensation, even if that is 
at the expense of the long term profitability of their company.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!5KXt758Xm6HFeA8BVCGJzkkwXVO4fi1JXSVNrRmXb7gnK8cKbgTWN6Tak9DeYOnf_A$
 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...

Then there was no need for the 1967 age discrimination law! LOL I’m not 
confusing anything. This article is a continuation of the age discrimination 
lawsuit filed by IBM employees in 2018. Most companies do it to maximize 
profits since profits make the stock price go up and the executives and 
shareholders benefit when profits go up. Cash flow can be positive or negative.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:34 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

You're confusing cash flow with profits. Unless there are external constraints, 
wages don't increase by themselves. The natural behavior in capitalism is to 
not give raises unless it would cost you more for the employee to leave..


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!5KXt758Xm6HFeA8BVCGJzkkwXVO4fi1JXSVNrRmXb7gnK8cKbgTWN6Tak9DeYOnf_A$
 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua