Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Thanks for the clarification!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Tony Harminc
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2024 9:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 15:01, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> [...]
>
Since classic timer units are close to microseconds
>
[...]
>

Ah, no. We've been through this one before - the last time here in 2018 as far 
as I can see. A (classic) Timer Unit is about 26 μs, which is the notional tick 
rate of bit 30 of the old S/360 Interval Timer. But this kind of Timer Unit 
continues to be available in some interfaces on z/OS, though the Interval Timer 
is long gone.

Bit 31 of the TOD clock ticks close enough to a one second rate that the high 
half of the clock can be used to count seconds for many human interface 
purposes. Bit 51 of the TOD clock ticks at (exactly) the 1 μs rate, and hence 
bit 63 at 2**-12 μs. According to the PofO this last is called a "clock unit".

Tony H.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Tony Harminc]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 15:01, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> [...]
>
Since classic timer units are close to microseconds
>
[...]
>

Ah, no. We've been through this one before - the last time here in 2018 as
far as I can see. A (classic) Timer Unit is about 26 μs, which is the
notional tick rate of bit 30 of the old S/360 Interval Timer. But this kind
of Timer Unit continues to be available in some interfaces on z/OS, though
the Interval Timer is long gone.

Bit 31 of the TOD clock ticks close enough to a one second rate that the
high half of the clock can be used to count seconds for many human
interface purposes. Bit 51 of the TOD clock ticks at (exactly) the 1 μs
rate, and hence bit 63 at 2**-12 μs. According to the PofO this last is
called a "clock unit".

Tony H.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:01:28 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>...
>Well, obviously in binary it's 0101011101111000 and...ok, not that. BUT I 
>did multiply it by 60 and got 21,474,720--which is suspiciously close in 
>digits (if not in scale) to 2**31, 2,147,483,648. Since classic timer units 
>are close to microseconds, this seems likely to be the source of the limit, no?
>
I thought a classic timer unit was one second/300.


Such things tend to endure for compatibility, but I don't
know that it appears in GUPI.

-- 
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

Well my mind isn't so great - as it never even thought about that.  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

GMTA!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is 
> >an exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 
> 4-digit value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance 
> with products that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the 
> processor. Minutes must be a number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

GMTA!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is 
> >an exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 
> 4-digit value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance 
> with products that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the 
> processor. Minutes must be a number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
> --
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> disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is 
> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 
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> reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
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> replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in 
> electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
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Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Rex Pommier wrote, in part:
>So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

>minutes
>Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. 
>Minutes must be a >number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

>357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
>number.

Well, obviously in binary it's 0101011101111000 and...ok, not that. BUT I 
did multiply it by 60 and got 21,474,720--which is suspiciously close in digits 
(if not in scale) to 2**31, 2,147,483,648. Since classic timer units are close 
to microseconds, this seems likely to be the source of the limit, no?

...phsiii (feeling slightly smug about having found that, though not 100% 
convinced it's the answer!)

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Mike Schwab]

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an
> >exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
> value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products 
> that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. 
> Minutes must be a number
> from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
> --
> The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from 
> disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is 
> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 
> this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
> disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in 
> reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by 
> replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in 
> electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
> --
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

It is most definitely CPU time:

Job card on my test job:
//RRPJ#180 JOB (435001),'RRP',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),   
// CLASS=T,MSGCLASS=X,TIME=(0,30),  
// NOTIFY=&SYSUID   

Abend info:
-STEPNAME PROCSTEPRC   EXCP   CONN   TCB   SRB  CLOCK   
-APPLYSMP  *SEC6   407K  32760  0.527212  0.0177301.8   

Pardon the misalignment, TCB time of .527... minutes, wall clock time of 1.8 
minutes.

Rex


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:

>In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes 
>is your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

In TUs?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Pommier, Rex 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an
>exit controlling the use of 1440
>
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that 
use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

--

Gil et al,

So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

minutes
Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. Minutes 
must be a number
from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
number.

Rex

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an 
>exit controlling the use of 1440
> 
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that 
use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

--

Gil et al,

So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

minutes
Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. Minutes 
must be a number
from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
number.

Rex

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is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this 
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