Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
Lindy And just on her own she could work with everything from USS to JCL with zERO training in ISPF or JCL or anything. No training. Just looking through docs. I'm surprised that your friend could work out how to use Unformatted Systems Services just by looking through the docs. It's rather tricky to realise that you should substitute the name of the application, say TSO or CICS, as the value for the LOGON command and then make the name of the application the default value for the APPLID parameter. Then specify the assembler format so that the userid can follow in the case of TSO. At least she doesn't have to think how she might contrive to make the mode table entry name the second positional parameter as I needed to do in order to teach the topic originally! Your friend may actually have strayed beyond the docs in picking up an example of this trick from the SEZAINST sample member EZBTPUST. This example may also have inspired your friend to get to grips with the 3270 data stream in order to create messages relating to her installation. I see you didn't mention z/OS UNIX as one of the skills your friend learned just looking through docs. My impression from a couple of weeks in Beijing about 15 years ago - at the time when mooncakes appear! - is that people recruited into technical jobs involving computers are educated in all matters UNIX. Thus acquiring skills in z/OS UNIX - z/OS UNIX Systems Services in full - would not be remarkable. Chris Mason On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:00:19 +, Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com wrote: Tweedledee and Tweedledum _Agreed_ to have a fight. Someday soon some language will be the Lingua Chinoise and COBOL will start looking really funny. I just had the extreme pleasure of helping a colleague from Beijing doing some installation in z/OS, and she had never seen or touched a mainframe before. Ever. And just on her own she could work with everything from USS to JCL with zERO training in ISPF or JCL or anything. No training. Just looking through docs. I explained to her what SYSPROC meant and she got it right away... I still cannot believe it, but on the other hand, I it is just a machine. I'd love to hear Steve chime in on this, but I never thought I'd see the day that someone went from knowing a TSO command line's difference from UNIX, or batch, to ISPF so easily, just like it was, hmmm, what is the word I'm looking for A computer? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it - Tasteless. www.lavache.com : l'email gratuit sans pub, vachement meuh. www.hugolescargot.com : coloriage, fiches recettes et bricolage, chansons, etc. www.jeux-gratuits.com : des jeux en ligne pour toute la famille. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 22:09:46 -0500, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: And...there we go again. -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Yes, I'm sure the TLA Police will be warring, (or should that be whoring :-) ), back and forth on this ad naseum. I would like to suggest another TLA for the one that cannot be mentioned. How about zIX? (or for the purists z/IX) It would also behoove several members of this august group to remember the following words: (often expressed in several variations, but never quite stated as well) “If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all. ” ― Thumper (from the Disney classic Bambi) -- Dale R. Smith -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
And here I was, laughing about it; everyone take a chill pill. -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
In CAE1XxDEwwmB66cYRBTYk5V=r=oojk6hjgrtq20oo+aybakg...@mail.gmail.com, on 11/26/2012 at 11:24 AM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com said: When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage. Main storage was memory, No. IBM was using the word storage for main memory in the 1950's, as was UNIVAC. The nomenclature changed between vendors at the same date, not as a function of time. A similar situation existed with biquinary. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
In 1726264830821798.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu, on 11/26/2012 at 11:06 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za said: Some people are [still] refering to 'tape' when talking about cartridge (3490, Magstar). How is that different from referring to a reel of tape as tape? A Magstar cartridge still uses tape. Should VTS (Virtual Tape System) not be VCS (Virtual Cartridge System)? No, but a DASD using only SSD's should not be called a disk. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
Shmuel, My late father was FE working on Univacs Solid State, Univacs answer to the IBM 650.. Man small world Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Nov 27, 2012, at 9:46 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+...@patriot.net wrote: In CAE1XxDEwwmB66cYRBTYk5V=r=oojk6hjgrtq20oo+aybakg...@mail.gmail.com, on 11/26/2012 at 11:24 AM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com said: When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage. Main storage was memory, No. IBM was using the word storage for main memory in the 1950's, as was UNIVAC. The nomenclature changed between vendors at the same date, not as a function of time. A similar situation existed with biquinary. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Etymology 101; was Parsing
I changed the Subject name so Barbara Nitz would not need to tell us when to stop. :-) Lindy has correctly stated the English language's derivation (etymology) of our words hound and deer. As John Gilmore said, Roger Suhr misunderstood Lindy's point. Another example of etymology is how Suhr's German word Rehbock morphed into our English word roebuck. As languages evolve, several aspects of any given word can change: the spelling, the pronunciation, consonantal voicing or unvoicing, vowel shifting, and even the meaning. Hound comes from Hund, deer comes from Tier, and innumerable other examples can be given of modern English words with German word origins. Linguists officially classify modern English as a North Germanic language. Most of our modern words have either Anglo-Saxon (thus older Germanic) or Norman French (thus older Latin) roots. English today is the language equivalent of SMF - it absorbs data from everywhere. We have a host of technical English words now with either Latin or Greek roots in them, as well as at least a smattering of words from hundreds of the six or seven thousand languages extant. Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane * Franklin, TN 37069-2526 * USA t: +1.617.614.4503 * e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com * w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Parsing Lindy didn't get things wrong. Roger Suhr misunderstood what Lindy wrote, with little excuse for doing so. The text Hund is dog [in German], but a specific type of animal in English does not lend itself at all readily to the interpretation Mr Suhr gave it. The transformation Unvoiced T == voiced D was noted and elaborately documented by the brothers Grimm. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
Bill Fairchild wrote: begin extract As languages evolve, several aspects of any given word can change: the spelling, the pronunciation, consonantal voicing or unvoicing, vowel shifting, and even the meaning. end extract and of these the last is perhaps the most important. Geoffrey Chaucer described himself as 'lewd', by which he meant not that he had a preternatural interest in things sexual but that he was not a clergyman. Shakespeare repeatedly used the word sad to mean not sorrowful but [nearly] worthless, and there has been a colloquial recrudescence of this sense in recent years. When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage. Main storage was memory, a usage that is certainly not obsolete and is preserved in acronyms like DRAM. If you want to know what a word or phrase means|meant with any precision you must associate a time and a place|dialect with your query. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
John Gilmore wrote: When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage. Main storage was memory, a usage that is certainly not obsolete and is preserved in acronyms like DRAM. What about the little cute, but dated, word 'core'? And you perhaps know the phrase 'core dump'? ;-D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_dump If you want to know what a word or phrase means|meant with any precision you must associate a time and a place|dialect with your query. Ah yes, for example, 'core' is now AFAIK dated. Some people are [still] refering to 'tape' when talking about cartridge (3490, Magstar). Should VTS (Virtual Tape System) not be VCS (Virtual Cartridge System)? ;-D :-D ;-D :-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
Just because you changed the Subject does not make this any more relevant to this list. - Don Imbriale On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Bill Fairchild bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: I changed the Subject name so Barbara Nitz would not need to tell us when to stop. :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
Tweedledee and Tweedledum _Agreed_ to have a fight. Someday soon some language will be the Lingua Chinoise and COBOL will start looking really funny. I just had the extreme pleasure of helping a colleague from Beijing doing some installation in z/OS, and she had never seen or touched a mainframe before. Ever. And just on her own she could work with everything from USS to JCL with zERO training in ISPF or JCL or anything. No training. Just looking through docs. I explained to her what SYSPROC meant and she got it right away... I still cannot believe it, but on the other hand, I it is just a machine. I'd love to hear Steve chime in on this, but I never thought I'd see the day that someone went from knowing a TSO command line's difference from UNIX, or batch, to ISPF so easily, just like it was, hmmm, what is the word I'm looking for A computer? ...a way a lone a last a loved a long the... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:24 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing Bill Fairchild wrote: begin extract As languages evolve, several aspects of any given word can change: the spelling, the pronunciation, consonantal voicing or unvoicing, vowel shifting, and even the meaning. end extract and of these the last is perhaps the most important. Geoffrey Chaucer described himself as 'lewd', by which he meant not that he had a preternatural interest in things sexual but that he was not a clergyman. Shakespeare repeatedly used the word sad to mean not sorrowful but [nearly] worthless, and there has been a colloquial recrudescence of this sense in recent years. When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage. Main storage was memory, a usage that is certainly not obsolete and is preserved in acronyms like DRAM. If you want to know what a word or phrase means|meant with any precision you must associate a time and a place|dialect with your query. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com wrote: deleted I'd love to hear Steve chime in on this, but I never thought I'd see the day that someone went from knowing a TSO command line's difference from UNIX, or batch, to ISPF so easily, just like it was, hmmm, what is the word I'm looking for A computer? ...a way a lone a last a loved a long the... Um, CPM 80 / 86 Dos command line / .bat files; Netware command prompt / .ncf scripts; Unix / BSD / Linux commands / scripts in several languages; z/VM / z/VSE / z/OS TSO ready mode / clists / jobs. Very similar concepts of a typed command that does an action. Command names and options vary widely. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
Ah yes, for example, 'core' is now AFAIK dated. It now means something else: IE: dual/quad cores on PC's. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing
On 11/26/2012 12:00 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: Tweedledee and Tweedledum _Agreed_ to have a fight. Someday soon some language will be the Lingua Chinoise and COBOL will start looking really funny. Funny yourself there. I just had the extreme pleasure of helping a colleague from Beijing doing someinstallation in z/OS, and she had never seen or touched a mainframe before. Ever. And just on her own she could work with everything from USS to JCL with zERO training in ISPF or JCL or anything. No training. Just looking through docs. I explained to her what SYSPROC meant and she got it right away... I still cannot believe it, but on the other hand, I it is just a machine. I'd love to hear Steve chime in on this, I've always said if people could read IBM manuals, I'd be out of work. And many people on the listservs have said they learn best by reading and some trial and error. On the other hand, as I've mentioned before, a well-designed class can speed the process up quite a bit. For the next 2-4 weeks I'm in Albuquerque: our son is having open heart surgery Wednesday. Opportunities to read and respond to emails will be sporadic for me for a while, at best. but I never thought I'd see the day that someone went from knowing a TSO command line's difference from UNIX, or batch, to ISPF so easily, just like it was, hmmm, what is the word I'm looking for A computer? ...a way a lone a last a loved a long the... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:24 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing Bill Fairchild wrote: begin extract As languages evolve, several aspects of any given word can change: the spelling, the pronunciation, consonantal voicing or unvoicing, vowel shifting, and even the meaning. end extract and of these the last is perhaps the most important. Geoffrey Chaucer described himself as 'lewd', by which he meant not that he had a preternatural interest in things sexual but that he was not a clergyman. Shakespeare repeatedly used the word sad to mean not sorrowful but [nearly] worthless, and there has been a colloquial recrudescence of this sense in recent years. When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage. Main storage was memory, a usage that is certainly not obsolete and is preserved in acronyms like DRAM. If you want to know what a word or phrase means|meant with any precision you must associate a time and a place|dialect with your query. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
