Re: Flash Cards on MVS
Ron, Thanks... Between the Red Book and your reply helped me out. Ed On Mar 9, 2013, at 6:40 PM, Ron Hawkins wrote: Ed, While it does not directly answer your question, we have a bunch of Flash Drives (SSD Drives) installed for about two years now that we use for performance testing. We don't use them every day, but when we do use them we beat the begeezus out of them with both reads and writes. Our Open system brothers at HDS have being doing it for even longer than us, and usually hit them with IO beaters much harder than we do. To the best of my knowledge the Flash Drives have been more reliable than HDD, and there's been no sudden flurry of failures after two or three years of some spurious heavy duty write activity. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Flash Cards on MVS I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth the courtesy of a reply. I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I am asking the group nicely, several questions. These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group would have the knowledge to reply. I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's MF implementation of Flash cards. Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) flash cards. What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few around just in case or ? IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company handle replacements ie operations (or another group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. IOW operations side of the of the handling. Thanks in advance for any information. - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
Ed, While it does not directly answer your question, we have a bunch of Flash Drives (SSD Drives) installed for about two years now that we use for performance testing. We don't use them every day, but when we do use them we beat the begeezus out of them with both reads and writes. Our Open system brothers at HDS have being doing it for even longer than us, and usually hit them with IO beaters much harder than we do. To the best of my knowledge the Flash Drives have been more reliable than HDD, and there's been no sudden flurry of failures after two or three years of some spurious heavy duty write activity. Ron > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ed Gould > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:36 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Flash Cards on MVS > > I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth > the courtesy of a reply. > > I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. > I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. > I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I > am asking the group nicely, several questions. > These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group > would have the knowledge to reply. > I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's > MF implementation of Flash cards. > > Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) > flash cards. > > What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few > around just in case or ? > > IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM > etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company > handle replacements ie operations (or another > group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. > > IOW operations side of the of the handling. > > Thanks in advance for any information. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
Ed - I'm assuming you are referencing the Flash Express feature introduced on the zEC12 and not flash storage as used in storage controllers (DS8000, EMC DMX, etc). We don't have first hand experience with flash, yet, but from the various webcalls I sat in on during the announcement cycle and updates we've received from our account team I took a number of notes. I'd say, though, that one of the best initial sources that seems to hit the majority of your questions is a FAQ doc IBM created and placed here: http://public.dhe.ibm.com/common/ssi/ecm/en/zsq03058usen/ZSQ03058USEN.PDF That said there are a couple of things I remember being asked that had immediate and emphatic answers from the IBM presenters. As to whether the flash cards wear out the answer was that, yes, ALL flash eventually wears out but that the life cycle of flash in a zEC12 should far exceed the lifecycle of the server itself (no doubt exceptions may occur for customers that tend towards really old/used boxes or extremely long lifecycles). Somewhere I had a note about the (list) price but have since misplaced that but recall it as sounding surprisingly reasonable. While we have a zEC12 we elected not to initially populate it with flash as it's our DR backup for our 2 z196's (and we are still DB2 V9 so no large page usage yet). I fully expect when we lifecycle our z196's to zEC12's we will populate all 3 machines with flash at that time. HTH. ___ Karl S Huf | Senior Vice President | World Wide Technology 50 S LaSalle St, LQ-11, Chicago, IL 60603 | phone (312)630-6287 | k...@ntrs.com Please visit northerntrust.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is confidential, may be privileged and is meant only for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender ASAP and delete this message from your system. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used and cannot be used by a taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed by law. For more information about this notice, see http://www.northerntrust.com/circular230 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From: Ed Gould To: Date: 03/05/2013 03:38 PM Subject:Re: Flash Cards on MVS Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth the courtesy of a reply. I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I am asking the group nicely, several questions. These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group would have the knowledge to reply. I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's MF implementation of Flash cards. Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) flash cards. What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few around just in case or ? IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company handle replacements ie operations (or another group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. IOW operations side of the of the handling. Thanks in advance for any information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
David: Thanks! The search on IBM.com was hopeless and google was the same. The book chapter didn't answer all my questions directly but enough to go back to the originator and assure him it is not an issue. Ed On Mar 6, 2013, at 6:20 AM, Jousma, David wrote: Ed, If you are speaking of the new zEC12, with the Flash Express option, A couple things come to mind, but I have no direct knowledge because we don't have Flash Express. - It is a feature code of the zEC12. So only IBM parts, no OEM - Since it is a feature code of the zEC12, it would be covered under the same maintenance as any other part of the processor. - requires z/OS 1.13+maint to exploit There is fault tolerance built in, and replacement can be done concurrently. At this time, I am pretty sure that the only exploiters are PAGING and Dump Services. I hear of other plans, but don't know if those have been implemented yet. Here is a link to the redbook zEC12 Technical Guide(see Appendix C). It pretty much appears to answer all your questions: http:// www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248049.pdf _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Engineering david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB2H p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.2717 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Flash Cards on MVS I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth the courtesy of a reply. I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I am asking the group nicely, several questions. These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group would have the knowledge to reply. I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's MF implementation of Flash cards. Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) flash cards. What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few around just in case or ? IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company handle replacements ie operations (or another group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. IOW operations side of the of the handling. Thanks in advance for any information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
I guess I could expand on this some more. zEC12 is the only built-in solution I am aware of. Don't think there is anything that will co-exist with it in the market, now or probably ever. That being said, I am aware that DASD vendors market solid-state disk, which present to the operating system as traditional DASD. That is not new technology. Not sure if you were asking that, or not. However, the answers to that should be the same too, covered under maintenance agreement. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Engineering david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB2H p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.2717 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 7:20 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Flash Cards on MVS Ed, If you are speaking of the new zEC12, with the Flash Express option, A couple things come to mind, but I have no direct knowledge because we don't have Flash Express. - It is a feature code of the zEC12. So only IBM parts, no OEM - Since it is a feature code of the zEC12, it would be covered under the same maintenance as any other part of the processor. - requires z/OS 1.13+maint to exploit There is fault tolerance built in, and replacement can be done concurrently. At this time, I am pretty sure that the only exploiters are PAGING and Dump Services. I hear of other plans, but don't know if those have been implemented yet. Here is a link to the redbook zEC12 Technical Guide(see Appendix C). It pretty much appears to answer all your questions: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248049.pdf _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Engineering david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB2H p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.2717 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Flash Cards on MVS I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth the courtesy of a reply. I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I am asking the group nicely, several questions. These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group would have the knowledge to reply. I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's MF implementation of Flash cards. Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) flash cards. What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few around just in case or ? IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company handle replacements ie operations (or another group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. IOW operations side of the of the handling. Thanks in advance for any information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assis
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
Ed, If you are speaking of the new zEC12, with the Flash Express option, A couple things come to mind, but I have no direct knowledge because we don't have Flash Express. - It is a feature code of the zEC12. So only IBM parts, no OEM - Since it is a feature code of the zEC12, it would be covered under the same maintenance as any other part of the processor. - requires z/OS 1.13+maint to exploit There is fault tolerance built in, and replacement can be done concurrently. At this time, I am pretty sure that the only exploiters are PAGING and Dump Services. I hear of other plans, but don't know if those have been implemented yet. Here is a link to the redbook zEC12 Technical Guide(see Appendix C). It pretty much appears to answer all your questions: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248049.pdf _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Engineering david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB2H p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.2717 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Flash Cards on MVS I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth the courtesy of a reply. I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I am asking the group nicely, several questions. These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group would have the knowledge to reply. I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's MF implementation of Flash cards. Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) flash cards. What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few around just in case or ? IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company handle replacements ie operations (or another group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. IOW operations side of the of the handling. Thanks in advance for any information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
I got one civil reply offline. The uncivil one from eastern Europe is not worth the courtesy of a reply. I will attempt to rephrase the question(s) below. I have a customer that is looking at the most current IBM system. I do not have contact with anyone that has the most current IBM system, so I am asking the group nicely, several questions. These are more operations (IMO) issues questions and figured the group would have the knowledge to reply. I did google and really didn't come up with any answers pertaining to IBM's MF implementation of Flash cards. Has anyone have experience with implementing IBM's (NOT STK or OEM) flash cards. What is the typical longevity of IBM's Flash cards and do you keep a few around just in case or ? IF/when they reach their end of life do you toss them return them to IBM etc... (how many spares do you keep on hand) How does your company handle replacements ie operations (or another group) handles the insertion and taking out of "old" cards. IOW operations side of the of the handling. Thanks in advance for any information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
W dniu 2013-03-04 19:41, Paul Gilmartin pisze: On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 12:21:55 -0600, Ron Wells wrote: news on the Graphene progress ?? It's probably in the Buzzword Bin, along with bubble memories, cryonic computers, quantum computers, ... ;-))) From: "R.S." Date: 03/04/2013 12:15 PM Flash is used for BIOS in PC motherboards, memory sticks, CF, SD, MMC, xD, SD, MS cards widely used in photocameras, mobile phones, etc. I have a Raspberry Pi with a Best Buy 16 GB SD card as mass storage. I wonder what its life expectancy is? Approx. 5 years ago I attended very good presentation in IBM Almaden performed by some IBM Fellow. Conclusion for you is obvious: DON'T WORRY. However if you plan to use your flashcard for some database activity (which means some really ht spots) then your card will last for 6 months. And according to Murphy's law will fail in the worst moment. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2013 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.555.904 złotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 12:21:55 -0600, Ron Wells wrote: >news on the Graphene progress ?? > It's probably in the Buzzword Bin, along with bubble memories, cryonic computers, quantum computers, ... >From: "R.S." >Date: 03/04/2013 12:15 PM > >Flash is used for BIOS in PC motherboards, memory sticks, CF, SD, MMC, >xD, SD, MS cards widely used in photocameras, mobile phones, etc. > I have a Raspberry Pi with a Best Buy 16 GB SD card as mass storage. I wonder what its life expectancy is? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
maybe---but apple started in garage... so looks is not much.. From: "R.S." To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 03/04/2013 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Flash Cards on MVS Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List W dniu 2013-03-04 19:21, Ron Wells pisze: > news on the Graphene progress ?? ;-))) I used to work close to the place when the graphen is being manufactured. Paid themfor parking. IMHO the lab looks like abandoned factory in Detroit ;-) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. IMHO flash is more on-topic than weather reports for next SHARE conf. ;-) -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
W dniu 2013-03-04 19:21, Ron Wells pisze: news on the Graphene progress ?? ;-))) I used to work close to the place when the graphen is being manufactured. Paid themfor parking. IMHO the lab looks like abandoned factory in Detroit ;-) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. IMHO flash is more on-topic than weather reports for next SHARE conf. ;-) -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 11:08:08 -0600, Jonathan Goossen wrote: >I did some research a while back to familiarize myself with the >technology. There are two types of flash memory. Static and dynamic. >Static has a limited number of writes, but can retain the data for years >without power. Dynamic has a ware limit more like hard disks, but requires >power for the cells to hold the data. > Is this yet different from a non-flash DRAM that requires a refresh cycle every (few) milliseconds? And from SRAM which requires no refresh, but more power, and typically has smaller capacity? As capacities increase, I'd expect increasing overhead for DRAM refresh. This might be offset by any (which?) of: o faster access times? o longer retention in the capacitive storage? o on-chip refresh logic? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
news on the Graphene progress ?? From: "R.S." To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 03/04/2013 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Flash Cards on MVS Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List W dniu 2013-03-04 18:08, Jonathan Goossen pisze: > I did some research a while back to familiarize myself with the > technology. There are two types of flash memory. Static and dynamic. > Static has a limited number of writes, but can retain the data for years > without power. Dynamic has a ware limit more like hard disks, but requires > power for the cells to hold the data. IMHO, no. Flash memory is flash memory. It's always "static". RAM is dynamic or static. Mainframe central memory, RAM in your laptop or PC desktop, or RAM in Wintel server - this is always DRAM. SRAM is faster, but it's not widely used because of other reasons like price, density, etc. Flash is very special kind of EEPROM, relatively quick, subject to wear, etc. Good for keeping config settings, files, photograpies, etc. Because of wera it's not good for db activity (many writes, very unevenly spreaded). Flash is used for BIOS in PC motherboards, memory sticks, CF, SD, MMC, xD, SD, MS cards widely used in photocameras, mobile phones, etc. Flash is also used in SSD, but contrary to the above applications, SSD require more sophisticated design - to avoid uneven memory cell wearing, to replace failing cells and to provide disk-like interface. BTW: there are also niche "SSD disks" built on DRAM. Limited capacity, extremely high prices. Usually equipped with battery, there were versions with battery and regular HDD to dump RAM content. See: Texas Memory Inc (recently bought by IBM), RAMSAN BTW2: there are two (or three) flavors of modern flash: MLC, SLC and TLC. What's funny the eldest type SLC is also the most reliable, but the capacity and price are the worst. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
W dniu 2013-03-04 18:08, Jonathan Goossen pisze: I did some research a while back to familiarize myself with the technology. There are two types of flash memory. Static and dynamic. Static has a limited number of writes, but can retain the data for years without power. Dynamic has a ware limit more like hard disks, but requires power for the cells to hold the data. IMHO, no. Flash memory is flash memory. It's always "static". RAM is dynamic or static. Mainframe central memory, RAM in your laptop or PC desktop, or RAM in Wintel server - this is always DRAM. SRAM is faster, but it's not widely used because of other reasons like price, density, etc. Flash is very special kind of EEPROM, relatively quick, subject to wear, etc. Good for keeping config settings, files, photograpies, etc. Because of wera it's not good for db activity (many writes, very unevenly spreaded). Flash is used for BIOS in PC motherboards, memory sticks, CF, SD, MMC, xD, SD, MS cards widely used in photocameras, mobile phones, etc. Flash is also used in SSD, but contrary to the above applications, SSD require more sophisticated design - to avoid uneven memory cell wearing, to replace failing cells and to provide disk-like interface. BTW: there are also niche "SSD disks" built on DRAM. Limited capacity, extremely high prices. Usually equipped with battery, there were versions with battery and regular HDD to dump RAM content. See: Texas Memory Inc (recently bought by IBM), RAMSAN BTW2: there are two (or three) flavors of modern flash: MLC, SLC and TLC. What's funny the eldest type SLC is also the most reliable, but the capacity and price are the worst. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
I did some research a while back to familiarize myself with the technology. There are two types of flash memory. Static and dynamic. Static has a limited number of writes, but can retain the data for years without power. Dynamic has a ware limit more like hard disks, but requires power for the cells to hold the data. Thank you and have a Terrific day! Jonathan Goossen, DTM ACT Mainframe Storage Group Personal: 651-361-4541 Department Support Line: 651-361- For help with communication and leadership skills checkout Woodwinds Toastmasters. IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 03/03/2013 03:35:25 PM: > From: Ed Gould > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 03/03/2013 03:37 PM > Subject: Flash Cards on MVS > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > Some of you may have/use them, correct? > > My limited understanding of flash memory is that they have a > "limited" life (ie X many writes) > > My curiosity is about what happens when a FLASH card reaches its > limit of X many writes. > > How do you handle these cards take it out and toss the old one out or > can they be recycled... > > I am looking for general day in and day out issues of FLASH CARDS. > > Any general information would be appreciated. > > Also a estimate as to their cost. > > Ed > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, forwarding or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Flash Cards on MVS
W dniu 2013-03-03 22:35, Ed Gould pisze: Some of you may have/use them, correct? Correct and obvious since it's a feature of EC12 My limited understanding of flash memory is that they have a "limited" life (ie X many writes) Correct but limited. See below. My curiosity is about what happens when a FLASH card reaches its limit of X many writes. Are your trolling? Google is your friend. Professional (as opposed to flashcard in your camera) flash memories have spare cells and complex algorithms to make the cells evenly weared. So even if your application wants to rewrite some "track" much more frequently the real memory cells are wared evenly. And weared cellas are replaced with spares. It can be compared to STK Iceberg aka RAMAC RVA. I am looking for general day in and day out issues of FLASH CARDS. Any general information would be appreciated. GIYF -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Flash Cards on MVS
Some of you may have/use them, correct? My limited understanding of flash memory is that they have a "limited" life (ie X many writes) My curiosity is about what happens when a FLASH card reaches its limit of X many writes. How do you handle these cards take it out and toss the old one out or can they be recycled... I am looking for general day in and day out issues of FLASH CARDS. Any general information would be appreciated. Also a estimate as to their cost. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
