Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Peter Relson]

>should the doc contain a hint that performance would be 
>improved if the token were doubleword aligned? 

I say "no". Individual services are not going to document things that are 
true everywhere. 

Not aligning things might work but might perform worse (not necessarily 
because of the instruction itself, but perhaps because the data might 
cross cache lines).

If there is a functional requirement, then it would be documented. 
Sometimes, for example, something must be on a doubleword boundary.
If there was a big performance difference between two options, that might 
be discussed.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Mike Schwab]

The cache line size is 256 bytes.  The performance should be higher if
the token doesn't cross that boundary.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> Should the doc contain a hint that performance would be improved if the
> token were doubleword aligned? I looked and looked for such an assertion,
> and finding none, took it that a character field is a character field is a
> character field. Why not document as two doublewords, or at least point out
> that doubleword alignment would be beneficial?
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Peter Relson
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 4:59 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IEAVPSE parameter question
>
> It is fine with z/OS itself if you use the same field for both the input
> token and the updated token.
> Whether it works for you will depend on whether you care. Maybe your
> recovery looks at something that wants to know if you still have the old
> token vs the updated one.
>
> The functionality of IEAVPSE (and the other similar "pause" targets, but not
> "multi-pause" IEAVPME2 / IEA4PME2):
> -- does a LM of the token into registers while running in your state and key
> -- PC's to change state (where the target uses the registers
>and never looks at the parameter list)
> -- does a LM into registers of the updated token
> -- PR's back to your state and key
> -- STM's to your updated-token
>
> Peter Relson
> z/OS Core Technology Design
>
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Steve Smith]

Some more memory paged in (to my brain).  It's the Pause that returns
an updated PET, but while paused, something else needs that current
PET to Release you.  I suspect the updated PET isn't stored until the
Release is done, but that's internal processing and so isn't
guaranteed (although the usual considerations apply).

If the Pause immediately overwrote the current PET, you'd be in limbo
forever, I guess, as the correct PET would be lost (currently, it
could easily be "guessed" (from what I've seen), but IBM could also
easily get more creative in how they're updated).

Frankly, I'm not sure what problem the PET-updating is supposed to
solve.  It definitely makes the service harder to use, but maybe
that's the point ;-)

Re alignment: I suppose almost everything benefits from the best
alignment you can reasonably give it, all else equal.  LM and STM
don't imply doubleword alignment is especially needed, although again,
that's internals, and subject to change.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> Should the doc contain a hint that performance would be improved if the
> token were doubleword aligned? I looked and looked for such an assertion,
> and finding none, took it that a character field is a character field is a
> character field. Why not document as two doublewords, or at least point out
> that doubleword alignment would be beneficial?
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Peter Relson
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 4:59 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IEAVPSE parameter question
>
> It is fine with z/OS itself if you use the same field for both the input
> token and the updated token.
> Whether it works for you will depend on whether you care. Maybe your
> recovery looks at something that wants to know if you still have the old
> token vs the updated one.
>
> The functionality of IEAVPSE (and the other similar "pause" targets, but not
> "multi-pause" IEAVPME2 / IEA4PME2):
> -- does a LM of the token into registers while running in your state and key
> -- PC's to change state (where the target uses the registers
>and never looks at the parameter list)
> -- does a LM into registers of the updated token
> -- PR's back to your state and key
> -- STM's to your updated-token
>
> Peter Relson
> z/OS Core Technology Design
>

-- 
sas

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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Charles Mills]

Thanks!

Should the doc contain a hint that performance would be improved if the
token were doubleword aligned? I looked and looked for such an assertion,
and finding none, took it that a character field is a character field is a
character field. Why not document as two doublewords, or at least point out
that doubleword alignment would be beneficial?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Peter Relson
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 4:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

It is fine with z/OS itself if you use the same field for both the input
token and the updated token.
Whether it works for you will depend on whether you care. Maybe your
recovery looks at something that wants to know if you still have the old
token vs the updated one.

The functionality of IEAVPSE (and the other similar "pause" targets, but not
"multi-pause" IEAVPME2 / IEA4PME2):
-- does a LM of the token into registers while running in your state and key
-- PC's to change state (where the target uses the registers 
   and never looks at the parameter list)
-- does a LM into registers of the updated token
-- PR's back to your state and key
-- STM's to your updated-token 

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Peter Relson]

It is fine with z/OS itself if you use the same field for both the input 
token and the updated token.
Whether it works for you will depend on whether you care. Maybe your 
recovery looks at something that wants to know if you still have the old 
token vs the updated one.

The functionality of IEAVPSE (and the other similar "pause" targets, but 
not "multi-pause" IEAVPME2 / IEA4PME2):
-- does a LM of the token into registers while running in your state and 
key
-- PC's to change state (where the target uses the registers 
   and never looks at the parameter list)
-- does a LM into registers of the updated token
-- PR's back to your state and key
-- STM's to your updated-token 

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Charles Mills]

I don't need any optional adventures in debugging. I have 16 bytes to spare; 
not sure I have much hair to spare.

I just thought that perhaps someone might say "yeah, we do it all the time," or 
that Peter or Jim might know.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 12:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

I can really only echo what Chris Blaicher said.  Setting up multiple DUs (TCBs 
and SRBs) with their own PEs, and managing the PETs can be a mind-bending 
experience.  I can't say why you can't use the same field for the updated 
token, but I strongly suspect you cannot.  It's been more than a year since I 
wrote that code... while it works well, I've forgotten some details.

That said, why not give it a try?  You might wind up smarter than us.

sas

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Blaicher, Christopher Y.
<cblaic...@syncsort.com> wrote:
> It was a while ago when I wrote a bunch of code using pause elements, but as 
> I remember having those the same was not good.  It may have been because I 
> was using XFR.
>
> PAUSE/RELEASE and XFER are great services, a bear to get setup and get right, 
> but 4 years and probably trillions of uses later, and never had a problem.

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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Steve Smith]

I can really only echo what Chris Blaicher said.  Setting up multiple
DUs (TCBs and SRBs) with their own PEs, and managing the PETs can be a
mind-bending experience.  I can't say why you can't use the same field
for the updated token, but I strongly suspect you cannot.  It's been
more than a year since I wrote that code... while it works well, I've
forgotten some details.

That said, why not give it a try?  You might wind up smarter than us.

sas

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Blaicher, Christopher Y.
 wrote:
> It was a while ago when I wrote a bunch of code using pause elements, but as 
> I remember having those the same was not good.  It may have been because I 
> was using XFR.
>
> PAUSE/RELEASE and XFER are great services, a bear to get setup and get right, 
> but 4 years and probably trillions of uses later, and never had a problem.
>

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Re: IEAVPSE parameter question

[Blaicher, Christopher Y.]

It was a while ago when I wrote a bunch of code using pause elements, but as I 
remember having those the same was not good.  It may have been because I was 
using XFR.

PAUSE/RELEASE and XFER are great services, a bear to get setup and get right, 
but 4 years and probably trillions of uses later, and never had a problem.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Mainframe Development
P: 201-930-8234  |  M: 512-627-3803
E: cblaic...@syncsort.com

Syncsort Incorporated
2 Blue Hill Plaza #1563
Pearl River, NY 10965
www.syncsort.com

Data quality leader Trillium Software is now a part of Syncsort.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 2:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IEAVPSE parameter question

For IEAVPSE, can pause_element_token and updated_pause_element_token both be 
the same field? I don't see much use for the old pause_element_token after 
IEAVPSE completes.

Charles

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IEAVPSE parameter question

[Charles Mills]

For IEAVPSE, can pause_element_token and updated_pause_element_token both be
the same field? I don't see much use for the old pause_element_token after
IEAVPSE completes.

Charles 

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