Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
Ah, but Knuth's Literate Programming isn't a self documenting language; it's a means to integrate the documentation source with the code source and get well formatted text out of it. You still need to write the documentation before web can format it. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 15:46:48 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers are >not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, are >prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream >consequences. In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious myth that it >is self documenting - no language is. > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-JhToiJrx436ImEyAvJ7oCrY0ES7gy9ZRAvC_aqO2TcpRgdX0RqD_OS9Fj9cG8V2HyMYtRitabX4WQK-dZMSpHDv2kUeBb2TPjoG0bo6Sdb-LNNAwWr6fARyTVE0FKb73bTzj_s2lu7xKvf5Bo87hlvM9z-jd3zFbazs6KXnf1qLtZg0qDbX4I5eDpANZUycd_7LGnxzzWrHe2aQZ9dEsQ3EASRvFv13Xs5IaFzIJkn4DmsMI4jU4IlVct6vthxdFUK7JS1Y3RQG2-OAD1pANe7v8i5T8yc7fZY20sNoR-7YnbZoHINpxVM1JqxlINvWwKZTkSCnKGP03GBRJ6q5Cvoj0a88HYeumT1yVOfXBtwpj8kGIhRJaC15IZOG1BVLCYPvfmoLb-ekiEGguymkrIWbq4_6x3HL2WJBdBD2VmUpv8TEPbQiEQNpAS-AYkcZ/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWeb_%28programming_system%29 >BTW, is there any shop still using CODASYL COBOL? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
Yes. Without all the END-??? statements. On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > Wouldn't that be VSCOBOL, well beyond CODASYL? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:42 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium > > Our shop had one agency still running report writer reports using the > free built in version (78?). > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:47 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers > > are not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, > > worse, are prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be > > downstream consequences. In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious > > myth that it is self documenting - no language is. > > > > BTW, is there any shop still using CODASYL COBOL? > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > > Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:16 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium > > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1b-5A-k6m87QTuqyzbtnQj11SHVaJXaKjTnUPxpdSFiuZdewfEpzGWXFrNQU429jqXYBeZ4hkAlxT3dwOqilF88CSRyW-_NgSwlWsyj7sRwwUDLDv42jM5to-s_cB2PwkNZOAwdlREnOqHj8Z5NG_geFUVQiQSalS9G2b_-Vv-lOmNzr1w2DoxFhTgpEe1vl5WSMDwwChgYvdh2p8moci0AHnOb23dU-X5x1IgQZDBRRWxQV7SL-iUr-bBmPkjtCWqW5OoUGnpWYfYAgHKjgsIN0yd7RfpAuQstdzLgyxmoxhUXAMW7tz8nsr8yvioxLnon7_S31Bq7HViahTEIhK-n_F46JT4alOq53UrcW0QmMxL-X7nuNlhvhzy61B2WLAnBwT-dikGqH-DzsncM4a7jNKW-_Ok9sJM1Ef0H7sZ3n0XN5RiQm2VQ-pLaCJ3jGR_jCvq8GbbjxaqhnwgjHgAw/https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40bellmar%2Fold-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262 > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark T. Regan > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA > Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
Wouldn't that be VSCOBOL, well beyond CODASYL? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium Our shop had one agency still running report writer reports using the free built in version (78?). On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:47 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers > are not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, > are prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream > consequences. In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious myth that it > is self documenting - no language is. > > BTW, is there any shop still using CODASYL COBOL? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:16 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1b-5A-k6m87QTuqyzbtnQj11SHVaJXaKjTnUPxpdSFiuZdewfEpzGWXFrNQU429jqXYBeZ4hkAlxT3dwOqilF88CSRyW-_NgSwlWsyj7sRwwUDLDv42jM5to-s_cB2PwkNZOAwdlREnOqHj8Z5NG_geFUVQiQSalS9G2b_-Vv-lOmNzr1w2DoxFhTgpEe1vl5WSMDwwChgYvdh2p8moci0AHnOb23dU-X5x1IgQZDBRRWxQV7SL-iUr-bBmPkjtCWqW5OoUGnpWYfYAgHKjgsIN0yd7RfpAuQstdzLgyxmoxhUXAMW7tz8nsr8yvioxLnon7_S31Bq7HViahTEIhK-n_F46JT4alOq53UrcW0QmMxL-X7nuNlhvhzy61B2WLAnBwT-dikGqH-DzsncM4a7jNKW-_Ok9sJM1Ef0H7sZ3n0XN5RiQm2VQ-pLaCJ3jGR_jCvq8GbbjxaqhnwgjHgAw/https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40bellmar%2Fold-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262 > > Regards, > > Mark T. Regan > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
Our shop had one agency still running report writer reports using the free built in version (78?). On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:47 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers > are not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, > are prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream > consequences. In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious myth that it > is self documenting - no language is. > > BTW, is there any shop still using CODASYL COBOL? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:16 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1b-5A-k6m87QTuqyzbtnQj11SHVaJXaKjTnUPxpdSFiuZdewfEpzGWXFrNQU429jqXYBeZ4hkAlxT3dwOqilF88CSRyW-_NgSwlWsyj7sRwwUDLDv42jM5to-s_cB2PwkNZOAwdlREnOqHj8Z5NG_geFUVQiQSalS9G2b_-Vv-lOmNzr1w2DoxFhTgpEe1vl5WSMDwwChgYvdh2p8moci0AHnOb23dU-X5x1IgQZDBRRWxQV7SL-iUr-bBmPkjtCWqW5OoUGnpWYfYAgHKjgsIN0yd7RfpAuQstdzLgyxmoxhUXAMW7tz8nsr8yvioxLnon7_S31Bq7HViahTEIhK-n_F46JT4alOq53UrcW0QmMxL-X7nuNlhvhzy61B2WLAnBwT-dikGqH-DzsncM4a7jNKW-_Ok9sJM1Ef0H7sZ3n0XN5RiQm2VQ-pLaCJ3jGR_jCvq8GbbjxaqhnwgjHgAw/https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40bellmar%2Fold-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262 > > Regards, > > Mark T. Regan > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 15:46:48 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers are >not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, are >prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream >consequences. In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious myth that it >is self documenting - no language is. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_(programming_system) >BTW, is there any shop still using CODASYL COBOL? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers are not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, are prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream consequences. In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious myth that it is self documenting - no language is. BTW, is there any shop still using CODASYL COBOL? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:16 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium https://secure-web.cisco.com/1b-5A-k6m87QTuqyzbtnQj11SHVaJXaKjTnUPxpdSFiuZdewfEpzGWXFrNQU429jqXYBeZ4hkAlxT3dwOqilF88CSRyW-_NgSwlWsyj7sRwwUDLDv42jM5to-s_cB2PwkNZOAwdlREnOqHj8Z5NG_geFUVQiQSalS9G2b_-Vv-lOmNzr1w2DoxFhTgpEe1vl5WSMDwwChgYvdh2p8moci0AHnOb23dU-X5x1IgQZDBRRWxQV7SL-iUr-bBmPkjtCWqW5OoUGnpWYfYAgHKjgsIN0yd7RfpAuQstdzLgyxmoxhUXAMW7tz8nsr8yvioxLnon7_S31Bq7HViahTEIhK-n_F46JT4alOq53UrcW0QmMxL-X7nuNlhvhzy61B2WLAnBwT-dikGqH-DzsncM4a7jNKW-_Ok9sJM1Ef0H7sZ3n0XN5RiQm2VQ-pLaCJ3jGR_jCvq8GbbjxaqhnwgjHgAw/https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40bellmar%2Fold-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262 Regards, Mark T. Regan -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Old Code Gets Younger Every Year - Marianne Bellotti - Medium
On 6/9/2020 11:16 AM, Mark Regan wrote: https://medium.com/@bellmar/old-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262 Regards, Mark T. Regan -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Wow, an article about legacy code from someone who actually knows what the hell they're talking about. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
