Re: Strange HMC issue

[Tony Thigpen]

Thanks Donald,

That was the trick. The BMC was turned on in the BIOS. Turning it off 
resolved the concern.


Tony Thigpen

Donald J. wrote on 11/23/2015 01:30 PM:

There is also same option for the SE TCP menu item.

BMC is probably the Baseboard Management Controller.  You could
check the bios and see if there is an option to turn DHCP on/off on
the BMC.



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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Donald J.]

There is also same option for the SE TCP menu item.

BMC is probably the Baseboard Management Controller.  You could 
check the bios and see if there is an option to turn DHCP on/off on
the BMC.

-- 
  Donald J.
  dona...@4email.net

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015, at 06:27 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote:
> Attached is a .txt file with the info.
> 
> Tony Thigpen
> 
> Donald J. wrote on 11/23/2015 08:04 AM:
> > Select the Network Diagnostics icon from both your HMC and SE and then click
> > on the menu bar TCP option to display all socket connections.
> >
> 
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Re: Strange HMC issue

[ESHEL Jonathan]

The name it got, BMC_DHCP may provide a hint. Do you have a BMC product such as 
BMC MainView SecureHMC running somewhere, perhaps being tested ?

Jonathan Eshel

-Message d'origine-
De : Tony Thigpen [mailto:t...@vse2pdf.com] 
Envoyé : samedi 21 novembre 2015 06:00
Objet : Strange HMC issue

Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.

The HMC is connected to two networks. The first is a small private network with 
just the laptops in the z10 and the HMC. No other HMCs or other CPUs. The 
second network is a local network with several items on it, including other 
HMCs. This network is behind a VPN firewall and is used to access the web 
services on the HMC.

Both interfaces have hard-coded IP addresses.

Today we noticed something strange. We had a DHCP address assigned to a box we 
did not know about. Except for 3 workstations on the network, all other boxes 
have hard-coded IP addresses. In the DHCP assigned addresses table, the box had 
provided a name of BMC_DHCP.

After a bunch of testing, we isolated the assigned address to the HMC, but the 
address does not show up in any of the HMC panels that show IP addresses.

Items:
1) When we ping the HMC using the hard-coded address, the response is under 
3.0ms.
2) When we ping the DHCP assigned address, the response is 10x longer, in the 
30.0ms range.
3) The arp tables on another PC show both addresses having the same nic address.
4) The HMC can ping it's own hard-coded address, but it can not ping the DHCP 
assigned address.
5) We have other CPUs and other HMCs. None of the others are doing the same 
thing. (z900 though z10).
6) This HMC has the latest software version of all the HMCs.
7) nMap (port mapping tool) says that there are no ports open at this DHCP 
assigned address.

Thoughts on what is happening?
Anybody else seeing the same thing?

--
Tony Thigpen

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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Donald J.]

Select the Network Diagnostics icon from both your HMC and SE and then click
on the menu bar TCP option to display all socket connections.

-- 
  Donald J.
  dona...@4email.net

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015, at 09:00 PM, Tony Thigpen wrote:
> Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.
> 
 
> Thoughts on what is happening?
> Anybody else seeing the same thing?
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Tony Thigpen]

That is a good question.

This machine was about 4 years old when we received it. There may be 
something from it's previous install still active.


Do you know of any way to check the HMC for the BMC client?

Tony Thigpen

ESHEL Jonathan wrote on 11/23/2015 03:49 AM:

The name it got, BMC_DHCP may provide a hint. Do you have a BMC product such as 
BMC MainView SecureHMC running somewhere, perhaps being tested ?

Jonathan Eshel

-Message d'origine-
De : Tony Thigpen [mailto:t...@vse2pdf.com]
Envoyé : samedi 21 novembre 2015 06:00
Objet : Strange HMC issue

Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.

The HMC is connected to two networks. The first is a small private network with 
just the laptops in the z10 and the HMC. No other HMCs or other CPUs. The 
second network is a local network with several items on it, including other 
HMCs. This network is behind a VPN firewall and is used to access the web 
services on the HMC.

Both interfaces have hard-coded IP addresses.

Today we noticed something strange. We had a DHCP address assigned to a box we 
did not know about. Except for 3 workstations on the network, all other boxes 
have hard-coded IP addresses. In the DHCP assigned addresses table, the box had 
provided a name of BMC_DHCP.

After a bunch of testing, we isolated the assigned address to the HMC, but the 
address does not show up in any of the HMC panels that show IP addresses.

Items:
1) When we ping the HMC using the hard-coded address, the response is under 
3.0ms.
2) When we ping the DHCP assigned address, the response is 10x longer, in the 
30.0ms range.
3) The arp tables on another PC show both addresses having the same nic address.
4) The HMC can ping it's own hard-coded address, but it can not ping the DHCP 
assigned address.
5) We have other CPUs and other HMCs. None of the others are doing the same 
thing. (z900 though z10).
6) This HMC has the latest software version of all the HMCs.
7) nMap (port mapping tool) says that there are no ports open at this DHCP 
assigned address.

Thoughts on what is happening?
Anybody else seeing the same thing?

--
Tony Thigpen

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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Tony Thigpen]

Attached is a .txt file with the info.

Tony Thigpen

Donald J. wrote on 11/23/2015 08:04 AM:

Select the Network Diagnostics icon from both your HMC and SE and then click
on the menu bar TCP option to display all socket connections.



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ETH0 IS THE NETWORK CONNECTED ONLY TO THE Z10 SERIVCE PROCESSORS
ETH1 IS THE NETWORK CONNECTED WITH OTHER PCS.
I AM ACCESSING THE HCM VIA THE WEB INTERFACE FROM 10.10.50.201
 
eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:10:18:21:FA:74
  inet addr:192.168.4.100  Bcast:192.168.4.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
  inet6 addr: fe80::210:18ff:fe21:fa74/64 Scope:Link
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:5658682 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:5364188 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
  RX bytes:2882200883 (2748.6 Mb)  TX bytes:2156257405 (2056.3 Mb)
  Interrupt:177
eth1  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:21:5E:F9:B3:DA
  inet addr:10.10.50.51  Bcast:10.10.50.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
  inet6 addr: fe80::221:5eff:fef9:b3da/64 Scope:Link
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:2387611 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:1820106 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
  RX bytes:839766303 (800.8 Mb)  TX bytes:766042957 (730.5 Mb)
  Interrupt:185
loLink encap:Local Loopback
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:7601099 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:7601099 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
  RX bytes:504186663 (480.8 Mb)  TX bytes:504186663 (480.8 Mb)
 
 
Active Internet connections (servers and established)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address   Foreign Address State
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:4009  0.0.0.0:*   LISTEN
tcp0  0 0.0.0.0:60000.0.0.0:*   LISTEN
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:49715 127.0.0.1:8080  ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:4009  127.0.0.1:51354 ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:4009  127.0.0.1:51353 ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:6000  127.0.0.1:36819 ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:36819 127.0.0.1:6000  ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 :::9952 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9920 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9953 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9954 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::58787:::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::5:::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9955 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9956 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9957 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9958 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::4455 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9959 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9960 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::8080 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::6000 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9940 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::21   :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::22   :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::443  :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9950 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 :::9951 :::*LISTEN
tcp0  0 10.10.50.51:992010.10.50.55:41993   ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:8080  127.0.0.1:49715 ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 fe80::210:18ff:fe:42075 fe80::227:13ff:fe:5 ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:51354 127.0.0.1:4009  ESTABLISHED
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:51353 127.0.0.1:4009  ESTABLISHED
tcp1  0 ::1:40516   ::1:52962   CLOSE_WAIT
tcp0  0 ::1:52962   ::1:40516   FIN_WAIT2
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:8080  127.0.0.1:40852 TIME_WAIT
tcp0  0 

Re: Strange HMC issue

[ESHEL Jonathan]

Not really, but by looking around I think I found the BMC in question is not 
the one I originally thought but a Baseboard Management Controller that 
provides environmental monitoring for the server.
If you look at the Service Guide for HMC and SE GC28-6861-08 (the following 
link may work or not ... - 
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg2e78d464621f0852572dc0066f772=1)
 you will see under the 4367 PC configuration step 36 the BMC Network 
Configuration and the default Host Name is (surprise) BMC_DHCP.
If I were you I would search in this direction.

Jonathan Eshel

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 08:14:51 -0500, Tony Thigpen  wrote:

>That is a good question.
>
>This machine was about 4 years old when we received it. There may be 
>something from it's previous install still active.
>
>Do you know of any way to check the HMC for the BMC client?
>
>Tony Thigpen
>
>ESHEL Jonathan wrote on 11/23/2015 03:49 AM:
>> The name it got, BMC_DHCP may provide a hint. Do you have a BMC product such 
>> as BMC MainView SecureHMC running somewhere, perhaps being tested ?
>>
>> Jonathan Eshel
>>
>> -Message d'origine-
>> De : Tony Thigpen [mailto:t...@vse2pdf.com]
>> Envoyé : samedi 21 novembre 2015 06:00
>> Objet : Strange HMC issue
>>
>> Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.
>>
>> The HMC is connected to two networks. The first is a small private network 
>> with just the laptops in the z10 and the HMC. No other HMCs or other CPUs. 
>> The second network is a local network with several items on it, including 
>> other HMCs. This network is behind a VPN firewall and is used to access the 
>> web services on the HMC.
>>
>> Both interfaces have hard-coded IP addresses.
>>
>> Today we noticed something strange. We had a DHCP address assigned to a box 
>> we did not know about. Except for 3 workstations on the network, all other 
>> boxes have hard-coded IP addresses. In the DHCP assigned addresses table, 
>> the box had provided a name of BMC_DHCP.
>>
>> After a bunch of testing, we isolated the assigned address to the HMC, but 
>> the address does not show up in any of the HMC panels that show IP addresses.
>>
>> Items:
>> 1) When we ping the HMC using the hard-coded address, the response is under 
>> 3.0ms.
>> 2) When we ping the DHCP assigned address, the response is 10x longer, in 
>> the 30.0ms range.
>> 3) The arp tables on another PC show both addresses having the same nic 
>> address.
>> 4) The HMC can ping it's own hard-coded address, but it can not ping the 
>> DHCP assigned address.
>> 5) We have other CPUs and other HMCs. None of the others are doing the same 
>> thing. (z900 though z10).
>> 6) This HMC has the latest software version of all the HMCs.
>> 7) nMap (port mapping tool) says that there are no ports open at this DHCP 
>> assigned address.
>>
>> Thoughts on what is happening?
>> Anybody else seeing the same thing?
>>
>> --
>> Tony Thigpen
>>
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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Bigendian Smalls]

It occurs to me Tony, there could be a multitude things here.  But one involves 
routes and routing tables. Presuming the two networks on your multi-homed HMC 
don't overlap (different subnets) I'd wonder how your routes in that box are 
set up (default and otherwise). 

#3 concerns me a little that you have the same Mac arp resolution to 2 
different IPs. While not impossible there could be some issues with this.  Have 
you captured the traffic from the host that is suspect - and rebooted, see if 
it is actually dhcp requesting an address? It sounds like there could possibly 
be another box with a MAC address the same as your HMC.  That's one idea. or a 
process on it requesting a dhcp address.  

If it were me I'd take two traffic captures, one that gets all the traffic from 
the HMC you suspect.  and one from the box handing out IPs.  Do a reboot of the 
HMC if you can, and see if the traffic coincides with expected behavior.  
That's where I'd start. 

Chad 


> On Nov 20, 2015, at 23:03, Tony Thigpen  wrote:
> 
> Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.
> 
> The HMC is connected to two networks. The first is a small private network 
> with just the laptops in the z10 and the HMC. No other HMCs or other CPUs. 
> The second network is a local network with several items on it, including 
> other HMCs. This network is behind a VPN firewall and is used to access the 
> web services on the HMC.
> 
> Both interfaces have hard-coded IP addresses.
> 
> Today we noticed something strange. We had a DHCP address assigned to a box 
> we did not know about. Except for 3 workstations on the network, all other 
> boxes have hard-coded IP addresses. In the DHCP assigned addresses table, the 
> box had provided a name of BMC_DHCP.
> 
> After a bunch of testing, we isolated the assigned address to the HMC, but 
> the address does not show up in any of the HMC panels that show IP addresses.
> 
> Items:
> 1) When we ping the HMC using the hard-coded address, the response is under 
> 3.0ms.
> 2) When we ping the DHCP assigned address, the response is 10x longer, in the 
> 30.0ms range.
> 3) The arp tables on another PC show both addresses having the same nic 
> address.
> 4) The HMC can ping it's own hard-coded address, but it can not ping the DHCP 
> assigned address.
> 5) We have other CPUs and other HMCs. None of the others are doing the same 
> thing. (z900 though z10).
> 6) This HMC has the latest software version of all the HMCs.
> 7) nMap (port mapping tool) says that there are no ports open at this DHCP 
> assigned address.
> 
> Thoughts on what is happening?
> Anybody else seeing the same thing?
> 
> -- 
> Tony Thigpen
> 
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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Jack J. Woehr]

Bigendian Smalls wrote:

It occurs to me Tony, there could be a multitude things here.
Wouldn't the easiest thing be to exclude the HMC's static address from the range of dynamic addresses on the DHCP 
server, restart dhcpd and see what happens?


Sooner or later someone will whine when some box they're using has its lease 
expire and its address changes :)

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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Tony Thigpen]

Thanks.

When pinging either the hard-coded address or the DHCP assigned address, 
the ping fails anytime we unplug the ethernet cable to that nic.


We think that the HMC has opened up a tunnel in linux which is acting as 
a proxy for . At first we thought maybe the the 
laptops in the z10, but the ping does not fail if we disconnect the 
cable going to the z10 switch.


I wish I could get into the real linux and doing some displays.

Tony Thigpen

Bigendian Smalls wrote on 11/21/2015 11:54 AM:

It occurs to me Tony, there could be a multitude things here.  But one involves 
routes and routing tables. Presuming the two networks on your multi-homed HMC 
don't overlap (different subnets) I'd wonder how your routes in that box are 
set up (default and otherwise).

#3 concerns me a little that you have the same Mac arp resolution to 2 
different IPs. While not impossible there could be some issues with this.  Have 
you captured the traffic from the host that is suspect - and rebooted, see if 
it is actually dhcp requesting an address? It sounds like there could possibly 
be another box with a MAC address the same as your HMC.  That's one idea. or a 
process on it requesting a dhcp address.

If it were me I'd take two traffic captures, one that gets all the traffic from 
the HMC you suspect.  and one from the box handing out IPs.  Do a reboot of the 
HMC if you can, and see if the traffic coincides with expected behavior.  
That's where I'd start.

Chad



On Nov 20, 2015, at 23:03, Tony Thigpen  wrote:

Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.

The HMC is connected to two networks. The first is a small private network with 
just the laptops in the z10 and the HMC. No other HMCs or other CPUs. The 
second network is a local network with several items on it, including other 
HMCs. This network is behind a VPN firewall and is used to access the web 
services on the HMC.

Both interfaces have hard-coded IP addresses.

Today we noticed something strange. We had a DHCP address assigned to a box we 
did not know about. Except for 3 workstations on the network, all other boxes 
have hard-coded IP addresses. In the DHCP assigned addresses table, the box had 
provided a name of BMC_DHCP.

After a bunch of testing, we isolated the assigned address to the HMC, but the 
address does not show up in any of the HMC panels that show IP addresses.

Items:
1) When we ping the HMC using the hard-coded address, the response is under 
3.0ms.
2) When we ping the DHCP assigned address, the response is 10x longer, in the 
30.0ms range.
3) The arp tables on another PC show both addresses having the same nic address.
4) The HMC can ping it's own hard-coded address, but it can not ping the DHCP 
assigned address.
5) We have other CPUs and other HMCs. None of the others are doing the same 
thing. (z900 though z10).
6) This HMC has the latest software version of all the HMCs.
7) nMap (port mapping tool) says that there are no ports open at this DHCP 
assigned address.

Thoughts on what is happening?
Anybody else seeing the same thing?

--
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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Bigendian Smalls]

That's interesting. I'd still think a PCAP that ran during boot of the HMC and 
maybe watched for a bit could be enlightening. See if / who the IPs are 
speaking to, any dns lookups etc. Curious what you figure out - but it is 
certainly suspect. 

> On Nov 21, 2015, at 11:18, Tony Thigpen  wrote:
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> When pinging either the hard-coded address or the DHCP assigned address, the 
> ping fails anytime we unplug the ethernet cable to that nic.
> 
> We think that the HMC has opened up a tunnel in linux which is acting as a 
> proxy for . At first we thought maybe the the laptops 
> in the z10, but the ping does not fail if we disconnect the cable going to 
> the z10 switch.
> 
> I wish I could get into the real linux and doing some displays.
> 
> Tony Thigpen
> 
> Bigendian Smalls wrote on 11/21/2015 11:54 AM:
>> It occurs to me Tony, there could be a multitude things here.  But one 
>> involves routes and routing tables. Presuming the two networks on your 
>> multi-homed HMC don't overlap (different subnets) I'd wonder how your routes 
>> in that box are set up (default and otherwise).
>> 
>> #3 concerns me a little that you have the same Mac arp resolution to 2 
>> different IPs. While not impossible there could be some issues with this.  
>> Have you captured the traffic from the host that is suspect - and rebooted, 
>> see if it is actually dhcp requesting an address? It sounds like there could 
>> possibly be another box with a MAC address the same as your HMC.  That's one 
>> idea. or a process on it requesting a dhcp address.
>> 
>> If it were me I'd take two traffic captures, one that gets all the traffic 
>> from the HMC you suspect.  and one from the box handing out IPs.  Do a 
>> reboot of the HMC if you can, and see if the traffic coincides with expected 
>> behavior.  That's where I'd start.
>> 
>> Chad
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 20, 2015, at 23:03, Tony Thigpen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Background: HMC software version 2.11.1 connected to a z10.
>>> 
>>> The HMC is connected to two networks. The first is a small private network 
>>> with just the laptops in the z10 and the HMC. No other HMCs or other CPUs. 
>>> The second network is a local network with several items on it, including 
>>> other HMCs. This network is behind a VPN firewall and is used to access the 
>>> web services on the HMC.
>>> 
>>> Both interfaces have hard-coded IP addresses.
>>> 
>>> Today we noticed something strange. We had a DHCP address assigned to a box 
>>> we did not know about. Except for 3 workstations on the network, all other 
>>> boxes have hard-coded IP addresses. In the DHCP assigned addresses table, 
>>> the box had provided a name of BMC_DHCP.
>>> 
>>> After a bunch of testing, we isolated the assigned address to the HMC, but 
>>> the address does not show up in any of the HMC panels that show IP 
>>> addresses.
>>> 
>>> Items:
>>> 1) When we ping the HMC using the hard-coded address, the response is under 
>>> 3.0ms.
>>> 2) When we ping the DHCP assigned address, the response is 10x longer, in 
>>> the 30.0ms range.
>>> 3) The arp tables on another PC show both addresses having the same nic 
>>> address.
>>> 4) The HMC can ping it's own hard-coded address, but it can not ping the 
>>> DHCP assigned address.
>>> 5) We have other CPUs and other HMCs. None of the others are doing the same 
>>> thing. (z900 though z10).
>>> 6) This HMC has the latest software version of all the HMCs.
>>> 7) nMap (port mapping tool) says that there are no ports open at this DHCP 
>>> assigned address.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts on what is happening?
>>> Anybody else seeing the same thing?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tony Thigpen
>>> 
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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Jack J. Woehr]

Tony Thigpen wrote:
From another box on the same net, I can ping both addresses. (The .161 takes 10x longer.) From that same PC, if I look 
at the arp table, both addresses have the same NIC address. 


Change the NIC address on the HMC and see what happens?

I tend to favor deductive reasoning over inductive reasoning when debugging 
network problems :)

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Tony Thigpen]

The static address is outside the dynamic DHCP range.
Hardcoded is xxx.xxx.xxx.41, DHCP assigned is xxx.xxx.xxx.161.
(DHCP is .160-.199)

From another box on the same net, I can ping both addresses. (The .161 
takes 10x longer.) From that same PC, if I look at the arp table, both 
addresses have the same NIC address.


Tony Thigpen

Jack J. Woehr wrote on 11/21/2015 12:17 PM:

Bigendian Smalls wrote:

It occurs to me Tony, there could be a multitude things here.

Wouldn't the easiest thing be to exclude the HMC's static address from
the range of dynamic addresses on the DHCP server, restart dhcpd and see
what happens?

Sooner or later someone will whine when some box they're using has its
lease expire and its address changes :)



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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Tony Thigpen]

We have changed the DHCP range and rebooted the HMC. It then had the 
same results as before, but the non-static ip address changed (to be in 
the new range). This changed the arp information at the other PC.


I just wish they had a linux console I could use to display the 
networking and running task list.


Tony Thigpen

Jack J. Woehr wrote on 11/21/2015 02:16 PM:

Tony Thigpen wrote:

From another box on the same net, I can ping both addresses. (The .161
takes 10x longer.) From that same PC, if I look at the arp table, both
addresses have the same NIC address.


Change the NIC address on the HMC and see what happens?

I tend to favor deductive reasoning over inductive reasoning when
debugging network problems :)



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Re: Strange HMC issue

[Jack J. Woehr]

Tony Thigpen wrote:
I just wish they had a linux console I could use to display the networking and running task list. 

I've never actually seen an HMC!  I'm looking at the docs now.

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/HW11P/com.ibm.hwmca.kc_hmc.doc/hmcheader.html?lang=en

You can't ssh in some way into the HMC to play with it?

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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