Re: The WHY of the POR

[R.S.]

W dniu 2019-01-17 o 17:07, Tom Brennan pisze:
Last year I was watching the install of a new z14-ZR1 and the CE 
couldn't get the ICC consoles to work until he did a POR *after* the 
IP/LU settings were in place.  I thought this was rather odd. Most 
likely there were dynamic ways around the problem, but when there's 
nothing running on a machine yet, the easiest is to try a POR.



Unfortunately it is not unusual. However it is usually one of very first 
customizations, before any OS is installed or IPLed.

Note, chpid offline/online does not help.

I'm not sure about dynamic add-on new card. I did it in the past (added 
ICC), however I would bet I didn't perform the POR then.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

From his original message dated January 16th: "... I have gotten along for 
years, but now I am faced to explaining it to management ..."

I, for one, am quite happy to allow that reason for asking the question.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
720 Bld. 3rd Floor, #9
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 4:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR

I don't recall seeing OP's motivation for asking this question. I'm guessing 
it's to satisfy someone's hypothetical musing. As others have said, most of the 
once-conventional reasons are gone. Installation or upgrade or repair is likely 
to require at least one POR, but the odds of needing to interrupt production on 
a random weekend are now very low.

-- An OSA needs to be loaded with updated microcode. Either offline/online 
bounce or POR. Our console OSAs are well defined with symmetrical redundancy. 
It takes a while to work through the procedure, but it's very doable. The 
non-console OSAs are a menagerie of who knows what. It's easier to POR to catch 
them all at once. 

-- If you have two of them, cryptos can be managed like console OSAs. 
Offline/online, rinse, repeat.

-- Error conditions. These are rare and impossible classify. A while back we 
had an MCL upgrade go south. Primary and alternate SEs got out of sync. Support 
Center said we had to POR to resync. Ouch. Then the same thing happened again! 
So we PORed again. Eventually got thru it. You get to explain these cases to 
the boss one by one. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: The WHY of the POR

Last year I was watching the install of a new z14-ZR1 and the CE couldn't get 
the ICC consoles to work until he did a POR *after* the IP/LU settings were in 
place.  I thought this was rather odd.  Most likely there were dynamic ways 
around the problem, but when there's nothing running on a machine yet, the 
easiest is to try a POR.

On 1/17/2019 12:20 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:
> Sometimes it helps solve unexplainably unsolvable problems. We had this with 
> an unwilling PCHID.
> 
> Kees,
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
>> On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
>> Sent: 17 January, 2019 0:14
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
>>
>> Required is rare. Our last was for OSA related MCL. Before that, it 
>> was a scheduled power outage to upgrade the UPS.
>>   Otherwise, what Ed says. Each instance can be different. For us, it 
>> was also the only way to set the hardware clock.
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>>> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Finnell
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 2:46 PM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
>>>
>>> Murphy, squirrels, DR, hardware upgrades, terrorists, weather 
>>> events-
>> pretty
>>> much Risk assessment for your environment and your locale.
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/16/2019 4:18:42 PM Central Standard Time, 
>>> johnmattson...@gmail.com writes:
>>> I have a simple two lpar z9running zOS 1.13.  I have searched 
>>> online,
>> send me
>>> to the manual if youhave a good ref. Thanks


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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Tom Brennan]

I should have mentioned that I "think" the sequence was this:

1) POR (which like you say, must have loaded microcode into the OSA's)
2) Manually enter OSA IP addresses and LU's for ICC into the HMC
3) Test those IP addresses - no connection, no response
4) POR again
5) Hey, ICC works now

Now it turns out there were remote network admins who were claiming the 
problem is not in their network, while still looking at the errors of 
step 3.  So who knows, they may have done something to enable ports or 
whatever and not told us.  Lots of cooks in the kitchen at that point.


If the problem would have continued, I planned a test that I've never 
tried before on an OSA card: What would happen if I switched the IP 
address of my laptop to the same range as the OSA IP setting, and 
plugged my laptop directly into the copper OSA port?  Then depending on 
the result of a TN3270 connection test I could point a finger at either 
the network or the OSA card.


On 1/17/2019 1:37 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

-- An OSA needs to be loaded with updated microcode. Either offline/online 
bounce or POR. Our console OSAs are well defined with symmetrical redundancy. 
It takes a while to work through the procedure, but it's very doable. The 
non-console OSAs are a menagerie of who knows what. It's easier to POR to catch 
them all at once.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: The WHY of the POR

Last year I was watching the install of a new z14-ZR1 and the CE couldn't get 
the ICC consoles to work until he did a POR *after* the IP/LU settings were in 
place.  I thought this was rather odd.  Most likely there were dynamic ways 
around the problem, but when there's nothing running on a machine yet, the 
easiest is to try a POR.


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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I don't recall seeing OP's motivation for asking this question. I'm guessing 
it's to satisfy someone's hypothetical musing. As others have said, most of the 
once-conventional reasons are gone. Installation or upgrade or repair is likely 
to require at least one POR, but the odds of needing to interrupt production on 
a random weekend are now very low.

-- An OSA needs to be loaded with updated microcode. Either offline/online 
bounce or POR. Our console OSAs are well defined with symmetrical redundancy. 
It takes a while to work through the procedure, but it's very doable. The 
non-console OSAs are a menagerie of who knows what. It's easier to POR to catch 
them all at once. 

-- If you have two of them, cryptos can be managed like console OSAs. 
Offline/online, rinse, repeat.

-- Error conditions. These are rare and impossible classify. A while back we 
had an MCL upgrade go south. Primary and alternate SEs got out of sync. Support 
Center said we had to POR to resync. Ouch. Then the same thing happened again! 
So we PORed again. Eventually got thru it. You get to explain these cases to 
the boss one by one. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: The WHY of the POR

Last year I was watching the install of a new z14-ZR1 and the CE couldn't get 
the ICC consoles to work until he did a POR *after* the IP/LU settings were in 
place.  I thought this was rather odd.  Most likely there were dynamic ways 
around the problem, but when there's nothing running on a machine yet, the 
easiest is to try a POR.

On 1/17/2019 12:20 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:
> Sometimes it helps solve unexplainably unsolvable problems. We had this with 
> an unwilling PCHID.
> 
> Kees,
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
>> On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
>> Sent: 17 January, 2019 0:14
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
>>
>> Required is rare. Our last was for OSA related MCL. Before that, it 
>> was a scheduled power outage to upgrade the UPS.
>>   Otherwise, what Ed says. Each instance can be different. For us, it 
>> was also the only way to set the hardware clock.
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>>> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Finnell
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 2:46 PM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
>>>
>>> Murphy, squirrels, DR, hardware upgrades, terrorists, weather 
>>> events-
>> pretty
>>> much Risk assessment for your environment and your locale.
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/16/2019 4:18:42 PM Central Standard Time, 
>>> johnmattson...@gmail.com writes:
>>> I have a simple two lpar z9running zOS 1.13.  I have searched 
>>> online,
>> send me
>>> to the manual if youhave a good ref. Thanks


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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Tom Brennan]

Last year I was watching the install of a new z14-ZR1 and the CE 
couldn't get the ICC consoles to work until he did a POR *after* the 
IP/LU settings were in place.  I thought this was rather odd.  Most 
likely there were dynamic ways around the problem, but when there's 
nothing running on a machine yet, the easiest is to try a POR.


On 1/17/2019 12:20 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:

Sometimes it helps solve unexplainably unsolvable problems. We had this with an 
unwilling PCHID.

Kees,



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
Sent: 17 January, 2019 0:14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR

Required is rare. Our last was for OSA related MCL. Before that, it was
a scheduled power outage to upgrade the UPS.
  Otherwise, what Ed says. Each instance can be different. For us, it was
also the only way to set the hardware clock.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Edward Finnell
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 2:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR

Murphy, squirrels, DR, hardware upgrades, terrorists, weather events-

pretty

much Risk assessment for your environment and your locale.

In a message dated 1/16/2019 4:18:42 PM Central Standard Time,
johnmattson...@gmail.com writes:
I have a simple two lpar z9running zOS 1.13.  I have searched online,

send me

to the manual if youhave a good ref. Thanks

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Re: The WHY of the POR

[zMan]

Just like PC-DOS! (OK, PC BIOS)
1K

2K

...

Good thing they got over that. My 20GB laptop would take...a while to boot.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 9:34 AM Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM <
kees.verno...@klm.com> wrote:

> The 3081/3084 had more weird features: each IPL it did a memory check.
> When we had to IPL due to problems in te middle of a busy day, we lost an
> extra 12-15 minutes due to that (always needless) memory check.
>
> Kees.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> > Behalf Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
> > Sent: 17 January, 2019 15:24
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
> >
> > This thread brings me way back to the PORs needed for MVS/XA testing on
> > the 3081.
> >
> > Shut down production MVS/SP
> > POR to MVS/XA mode
> > Test MVS/XA
> > Shut down MVS/XA
> > POR back to MVS/370 mode
> > IPL MVS/SP
> >
> > Each POR took about 30-45 minutes from what I recall.
> >
> > Tom Conley wrote on 1/17/19 9:19 AM:
> > There is no WHY.  There is onlyPOR.
> >
> > --
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> >
> > --
> >
> > Mark Jacobs
> > Time Customer Service
> > Global Technology Services
> >
> > The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
> > Lt. Gen. David Morrison
> >
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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

The 3081/3084 had more weird features: each IPL it did a memory check. When we 
had to IPL due to problems in te middle of a busy day, we lost an extra 12-15 
minutes due to that (always needless) memory check.

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
> Sent: 17 January, 2019 15:24
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
> 
> This thread brings me way back to the PORs needed for MVS/XA testing on
> the 3081.
> 
> Shut down production MVS/SP
> POR to MVS/XA mode
> Test MVS/XA
> Shut down MVS/XA
> POR back to MVS/370 mode
> IPL MVS/SP
> 
> Each POR took about 30-45 minutes from what I recall.
> 
> Tom Conley wrote on 1/17/19 9:19 AM:
> There is no WHY.  There is onlyPOR.
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mark Jacobs
> Time Customer Service
> Global Technology Services
> 
> The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
> Lt. Gen. David Morrison
> 
> 
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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

For I/O Configuration changes that might require a POR, check the "HCD User's 
Guide" and/or "HCD Planning" and it may take generating an IODF for it to tell 
you that a POR is needed.

As a person who has worked on machines from the 360/40 to a z114 (current), the 
reasons for a REQUIRED POR are becoming fewer and fewer.

POR's could be categorized into; required (some I/O configuration changes) and 
un-intentional (in my shop's incident, mislabeled power cables when shifting to 
a new PDU).

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
720 Bld. 3rd Floor, #9
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John McKown
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 9:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 8:01 AM R.S.  wrote:

> Personally I can't remember when I *had* to perform POR.
> Yes, sometimes OSA or Crypto card need to be offlined/onlined which 
> also can be done vie POR, but this is not a requirement, since can be 
> done without it (even without IPL).
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
>
We don't have any sort of external times. So our TOD clock drifts around.
If it gets too far away, we look at doing a POR so that we can set it.


--
People who frustrate us will be around for as long as we need them.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Jousma, David]

Well, isn’t POR required when loading first IOCDS on delivery of the machine?   
 We tend to POR twice per year when we do our MCL's and OS maintenance.   Many 
MCL's go on "non-disruptive", but for OSA, and Crypto coprocessors still 
require that the adapter be downed to actually activate the new code.We do 
it to ensure all MCL's are fully deployed, and general cleanup.

_
Dave Jousma
Mainframe Engineering, Assistant Vice President
david.jou...@53.com
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.2717

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Conley
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 9:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

**DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected 
emails**

There is no WHY.  There is onlyPOR.

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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Mark Jacobs - Listserv]

This thread brings me way back to the PORs needed for MVS/XA testing on the 
3081.

Shut down production MVS/SP
POR to MVS/XA mode
Test MVS/XA
Shut down MVS/XA
POR back to MVS/370 mode
IPL MVS/SP

Each POR took about 30-45 minutes from what I recall.

Tom Conley wrote on 1/17/19 9:19 AM:
There is no WHY.  There is onlyPOR.

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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Tom Conley]

There is no WHY.  There is onlyPOR.

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Re: The WHY of the POR

[John McKown]

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 8:01 AM R.S.  wrote:

> Personally I can't remember when I *had* to perform POR.
> Yes, sometimes OSA or Crypto card need to be offlined/onlined which also
> can be done vie POR, but this is not a requirement, since can be done
> without it (even without IPL).
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
>
We don't have any sort of external times. So our TOD clock drifts around.
If it gets too far away, we look at doing a POR so that we can set it.


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Re: The WHY of the POR

[R.S.]

Personally I can't remember when I *had* to perform POR.
Yes, sometimes OSA or Crypto card need to be offlined/onlined which also 
can be done vie POR, but this is not a requirement, since can be done 
without it (even without IPL).


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Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

Sometimes it helps solve unexplainably unsolvable problems. We had this with an 
unwilling PCHID.

Kees,


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
> Sent: 17 January, 2019 0:14
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
> 
> Required is rare. Our last was for OSA related MCL. Before that, it was
> a scheduled power outage to upgrade the UPS.
>  Otherwise, what Ed says. Each instance can be different. For us, it was
> also the only way to set the hardware clock.
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> > On Behalf Of Edward Finnell
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 2:46 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
> >
> > Murphy, squirrels, DR, hardware upgrades, terrorists, weather events-
> pretty
> > much Risk assessment for your environment and your locale.
> >
> > In a message dated 1/16/2019 4:18:42 PM Central Standard Time,
> > johnmattson...@gmail.com writes:
> > I have a simple two lpar z9running zOS 1.13.  I have searched online,
> send me
> > to the manual if youhave a good ref. Thanks
> >
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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Gibney, Dave]

Required is rare. Our last was for OSA related MCL. Before that, it was a 
scheduled power outage to upgrade the UPS. 
 Otherwise, what Ed says. Each instance can be different. For us, it was also 
the only way to set the hardware clock.
  

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Edward Finnell
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 2:46 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The WHY of the POR
> 
> Murphy, squirrels, DR, hardware upgrades, terrorists, weather events-pretty
> much Risk assessment for your environment and your locale.
> 
> In a message dated 1/16/2019 4:18:42 PM Central Standard Time,
> johnmattson...@gmail.com writes:
> I have a simple two lpar z9running zOS 1.13.  I have searched online, send me
> to the manual if youhave a good ref. Thanks
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: The WHY of the POR

[Edward Finnell]

Murphy, squirrels, DR, hardware upgrades, terrorists, weather events-pretty 
much Risk assessment for your environment and your locale.

In a message dated 1/16/2019 4:18:42 PM Central Standard Time, 
johnmattson...@gmail.com writes:
I have a simple two lpar z9running zOS 1.13.  I have searched online, send me 
to the manual if youhave a good ref. Thanks

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