Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:57:56 -0500, Greg Lubel wrote:

>Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a 
>quick question to those of you who've looked at it and decided not 
>to complete it.

I didn't decide not to complete it. I decided to have a look later. I 
was busy when I first saw your request.

>Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it 
>better, to encourage completion?

No, I can't. I haven't even looked at it yet. Your request has a 
time stamp of 11:37 on Friday. Then at 12:57, you want to know 
why I didn't fill in your survey? You are an impatient man!

Having seen some of the responses so far, I doubt that I will bother. 
Some of the responses make it sound like this is a homework 
assignment, or the corporate equivalent.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Jack J. Woehr]

Tom Marchant wrote:

Having seen some of the responses so far, I doubt that I will bother.
Some of the responses make it sound like this is a homework
assignment, or the corporate equivalent.


It's an interesting survey, you should complete it just to read it :)

--
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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Jack J. Woehr]

Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

Thanks for that link Jack.  That PDF from IBM may also be helpful in educating us about 
the terms used in this survey, though to get the document that web page 
annoyingly*requires*  entry of name/address/company/role information (all of which may be 
faked without consequences) and does not allow you to un-check ALL of the "how 
should we communicate with you" boxes (it obviously*assumes*  you actually*want*  to 
be contacted, which is hardly ever the case).

Right, everyone from the NSA to Walgreens has the proctoscope up our butts 
these days. Welcome to the information age.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan


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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Thank you Cheryl, that was my problem with this survey.  The terminology was 
entirely new and unfamiliar, which probably means we aren't doing any of it, 
though we may actually be doing some of it and just not know it by those terms.

Thanks also for the SHARE link, I will have to read that to "catch up" on this 
terminology.

From the little bit that I tried, it also seems to me to be a survey mostly 
aimed at company-wide "business architects" who have a grasp of overall company 
strategy and tactics, rather than to the technical-level system and application 
programmers whom it seems to me constitute most of the IBM-MAIN contributors.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 8:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

Hi Tony,

I have to say I was quite confused by the survey until you mentioned Asit Dan's 
name.  Here is a SHARE presentation he did that explains everything that Greg 
was asking - https://share.confex.com/share/124/webprogram/Session17100.html.  
Now it makes a lot more sense.

Thanks for the name, and I agree that it's probably more of a question to a 
user group who has listened to such a presentation than IBM-Main.  When someone 
mentions 'z asset management' to me, I think of 'z software asset management', 
which is an entirely different animal.

Cheryl


Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
100 Central Ave, Suite 1013
Sarasota, FL 34236
P-941-924-6565, F-941-924-4892
www.watsonwalker.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 7:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

>> snip

I see Asit Dan has done a number of presentations on this stuff that might prep 
your audience. Maybe point those interested there *before* asking the 
questions. Even if they're still not interested, they'll have some idea of what 
you're asking about.

Regards,

Tony H.

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Thanks for that link Jack.  That PDF from IBM may also be helpful in educating 
us about the terms used in this survey, though to get the document that web 
page annoyingly *requires* entry of name/address/company/role information (all 
of which may be faked without consequences) and does not allow you to un-check 
ALL of the "how should we communicate with you" boxes (it obviously *assumes* 
you actually *want* to be contacted, which is hardly ever the case).

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

Greg Lubel wrote:
> I am the IBM design lead for our z Systems API strategy.
Surprised no one cited this IBM PDF freely downloadable yet, /APIs for 
Dummies./ 
<https://www-01.ibm.com/marketing/iwm/iwm/web/signup.do?source=sw-app_PKG=ov29766_TACT=C43101YW=APIs%20for%20Dummies_NA_BR>

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Re: (External):Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[J O Skip Robinson]

After grousing about terminology in my previous post, I need to elaborate. I 
used 'console command' as a straw dog for API. Actually various groups in SHARE 
have been clamoring for *decades* for improved APIs, particularly to facilitate 
automation. What we have been offered for the most part is a schema to issue a 
system or subsystem command, retrieve the output, and parse it for each 
specific purpose. That in the minds of many customers is not really an API, or 
least not the sort of API we envisioned. 

An example of a true API is the SDSF Rexx interface, where a user's interactive 
session talks directly to SDSF and receives output directly from SDSF. There 
are no (overt) system commands involved. More generally, any Rexx facility that 
begins with "ADDRESS env-name" is probably a true API. I also gave the example 
of HSM. If we had "ADDRESS DFHSM" in order to query and control HSM, that would 
qualify as an API. We have very few such interfaces in Rexx. 

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 8:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

Thanks for that link Jack.  That PDF from IBM may also be helpful in educating 
us about the terms used in this survey, though to get the document that web 
page annoyingly *requires* entry of name/address/company/role information (all 
of which may be faked without consequences) and does not allow you to un-check 
ALL of the "how should we communicate with you" boxes (it obviously *assumes* 
you actually *want* to be contacted, which is hardly ever the case).

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

Greg Lubel wrote:
> I am the IBM design lead for our z Systems API strategy.
Surprised no one cited this IBM PDF freely downloadable yet, /APIs for 
Dummies./ 
<https://www-01.ibm.com/marketing/iwm/iwm/web/signup.do?source=sw-app_PKG=ov29766_TACT=C43101YW=APIs%20for%20Dummies_NA_BR>

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Scott Ford]

Too many posers

On Saturday, October 31, 2015, Jack J. Woehr  wrote:

> Greg Lubel wrote:
>
>> I am the IBM design lead for our z Systems API strategy.
>>
> Surprised no one cited this IBM PDF freely downloadable yet, /APIs for
> Dummies./ <
> https://www-01.ibm.com/marketing/iwm/iwm/web/signup.do?source=sw-app_PKG=ov29766_TACT=C43101YW=APIs%20for%20Dummies_NA_BR
> >
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> Carl Sagan
>
>
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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Jack J. Woehr]

Greg Lubel wrote:

I am the IBM design lead for our z Systems API strategy.
Surprised no one cited this IBM PDF freely downloadable yet, /APIs for Dummies./ 



--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan


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Re: (External):Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Scott Ford]

Skip,

Exactly. I have been that way, the way you described since I started 40 yrs
ago. Been saying specs,specs and apparently the meaning has been lost in
the translation, as they say.

Many of us learned:

Input
Process
Output

Regards,

Scott , the T-Rex

On Saturday, October 31, 2015, J O Skip Robinson <jo.skip.robin...@sce.com>
wrote:

> (It must be Friday somewhere.) My first encounter with APIs was a (likely
> fictitious) anecdote about an engineer who went to a programmer and asked
> for a program to calculate a square root. "Are you sure that's all you
> want? Just a calculation?" The engineer insisted that's all he needed. The
> next day the programmer handed over a deck of cards (ah, those were the
> days). "This will calculate square roots."
>
> "Great" said the engineer. "How do I run it?"
>
> "Put this deck the card reader and press Start."
>
> "How do I input the number?"
>
> "Input? You didn't ask for input. Or output either, for that matter. This
> program does exactly what you asked for. It calculates a square root."
>
> Like I said, undoubtedly apocryphal. The original point of the tale was
> the importance of providing specifications. But I see it also in larger
> terms: given a computer that is somehow running some software, what APIs
> are needed to make any practical use of it? More specifically, what is an
> API in the simplest terms? In the context of the survey, I have no idea
> what sort of API the author has in mind. The term is not defined, yet the
> entire survey assumes an agreed-upon definition. Does 'API' encompass both
> the ability to enter a console command and a program-callable interface to
> HSM?
>
> I gave up on the survey.
>
> .
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 626-302-7535 Office
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> jo.skip.robin...@sce.com <javascript:;>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gibney, David Allen,Jr
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 2:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: (External):Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
>
> I just started the survey, by the third page I had no idea what you were
> asking, so I quit
>
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> <javascript:;>]
> > On Behalf Of Steve Beaver
> > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:51 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> > Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > My best description would be SHARE on-line where the audience that can
> > respond with suggestions and/or answers
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> <javascript:;>]
> > On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
> > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:43 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> > Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
> >
> > Tell them there's a printable $10 bill waiting for them at the end :)
> >
> > Actually, I'm one of the looky-loos.  I was only trying to understand
> > what this is all about and don't have any applications.  I didn't
> > fully understand the background and objectives after the first few
> > questions, so I left.  It's probably just me though, my wife repeatedly
> says I'm a little dense.
> >
> > Greg Lubel wrote:
> > > Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a
> > > quick
> > question to those of you who've looked at it and decided not to complete
> it.
> > >
> > > Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it
> > > better,
> > to encourage completion?
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > >
> > > Greg
>
>
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Re: (External):Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[J O Skip Robinson]

(It must be Friday somewhere.) My first encounter with APIs was a (likely 
fictitious) anecdote about an engineer who went to a programmer and asked for a 
program to calculate a square root. "Are you sure that's all you want? Just a 
calculation?" The engineer insisted that's all he needed. The next day the 
programmer handed over a deck of cards (ah, those were the days). "This will 
calculate square roots."

"Great" said the engineer. "How do I run it?" 

"Put this deck the card reader and press Start."

"How do I input the number?"

"Input? You didn't ask for input. Or output either, for that matter. This 
program does exactly what you asked for. It calculates a square root."

Like I said, undoubtedly apocryphal. The original point of the tale was the 
importance of providing specifications. But I see it also in larger terms: 
given a computer that is somehow running some software, what APIs are needed to 
make any practical use of it? More specifically, what is an API in the simplest 
terms? In the context of the survey, I have no idea what sort of API the author 
has in mind. The term is not defined, yet the entire survey assumes an 
agreed-upon definition. Does 'API' encompass both the ability to enter a 
console command and a program-callable interface to HSM? 

I gave up on the survey. 

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gibney, David Allen,Jr
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 2:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

I just started the survey, by the third page I had no idea what you were 
asking, so I quit

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Steve Beaver
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:51 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
> 
> Tom,
> 
> My best description would be SHARE on-line where the audience that can 
> respond with suggestions and/or answers
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
> 
> Tell them there's a printable $10 bill waiting for them at the end :)
> 
> Actually, I'm one of the looky-loos.  I was only trying to understand 
> what this is all about and don't have any applications.  I didn't 
> fully understand the background and objectives after the first few 
> questions, so I left.  It's probably just me though, my wife repeatedly says 
> I'm a little dense.
> 
> Greg Lubel wrote:
> > Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a 
> > quick
> question to those of you who've looked at it and decided not to complete it.
> >
> > Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it 
> > better,
> to encourage completion?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Greg


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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Tony Harminc]

On 30 October 2015 at 13:57, Greg Lubel  wrote:
> Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a quick 
> question to those of you
> who've looked at it and decided not to complete it.
>
> Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it better, to 
> encourage completion?

There are, unfortunately, few one sentence answers from me. Though
"offer a reward" might be one.

Jumping to the end first, it turns out that the survey isn't anonymous
(name and email are required, even if I don't ask for followup
contact). Well sure, I could give you fake info (I didn't), but you
really need to make this clear right up front.

Back to the start. I think in a sense you're operating in a different
world from many (most?) people on this list, and your questions and
terminology make assumptions that preclude or at least discourage the
answers that people might want to give.

Right off, the choice of  "what do you do" (Q1 and Q2) isn't a good
fit. Where do the traditional z/OS System Programmers put themselves?
I'm a developer at an ISV. I write mostly in Assembler, with Java and
C on the side. What do I call myself in your terms?

Perhaps you aren't interested in ISVs, in which case you should
probably say so, since the survey seems implicitly geared only to
end-user customers.

Further on you get into this "If you had 100 points to spend" stuff,
and I know from discussing it with many people over a long time that
this in a survey turns people off very quickly for a couple of
reasons. First, it says it's going to be a fairly long survey that
takes some serious thought, and I don't see a good reason to give you
my time when you haven't provided a strong, detailed background
explanation of what you are trying to accomplish. Second, this tells
me that you are trying to build some kind of internal business case
using automated methods (fine), but that you want those being surveyed
to provide a lot of detailed data according to categories that you
have already selected to suit the case you want to build.

I already sense a solution looking for a problem. And sure as winter
follows fall, a sales pitch (maybe not to me directly, but still...)
is coming next.

But because I'm such a nice guy, I'll continue... Woo - at 38% now.

Now in Q7 we're back to terminology problems."Cataloguing
applications, consuming services, exploiting z Systems assets..." Not
really my day job, even though I suppose by a stretch I do some of
those things.

Q8 (Hint: if there's only one choice, don't present it in a drop-down list).

Q9 Now you seem to be giving me a "task". No, no, no... This feels
like my annual appraisal. OK - I see - you're asking about my existing
"tasks".

Q10.
10. More...

Do you have another important task you’d like to share? Yes or No

Badly laid out. I'll assume not checking it means NO.


Q12. Would you use a native z Asset Management tool if one were available?

I have no idea what this means. So I answered NO. Then you ask me:

Q14. What benefits do you experience or anticipate experiencing from
using a z Systems asset management product?

Given that I've said NO to Q12, answering 20 more questions on it
seems unreasonable.

OK - you've had your free 20+ minutes of my time. Seriously, I do
think you need to explain a whole lot of background before asking
people to complete a survey with topics and terminology they are
likely to know little or nothing about.

I see Asit Dan has done a number of presentations on this stuff that
might prep your audience. Maybe point those interested there *before*
asking the questions. Even if they're still not interested, they'll
have some idea of what you're asking about.



Regards,

Tony H.

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Cheryl Watson]

Hi Tony,

I have to say I was quite confused by the survey until you mentioned Asit Dan's 
name.  Here is a SHARE presentation he did that explains everything that Greg 
was asking - https://share.confex.com/share/124/webprogram/Session17100.html.  
Now it makes a lot more sense.

Thanks for the name, and I agree that it's probably more of a question to a 
user group who has listened to such a presentation than IBM-Main.  When someone 
mentions 'z asset management' to me, I think of 'z software asset management', 
which is an entirely different animal.

Cheryl


Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
100 Central Ave, Suite 1013
Sarasota, FL 34236
P-941-924-6565, F-941-924-4892
www.watsonwalker.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 7:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

>> snip

I see Asit Dan has done a number of presentations on this stuff that might prep 
your audience. Maybe point those interested there *before* asking the 
questions. Even if they're still not interested, they'll have some idea of what 
you're asking about.

Regards,

Tony H.

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Gibney, David Allen,Jr]

I just started the survey, by the third page I had no idea what you were 
asking, so I quit

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Steve Beaver
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:51 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
> 
> Tom,
> 
> My best description would be SHARE on-line where the audience that can
> respond with suggestions and/or answers
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement
> 
> Tell them there's a printable $10 bill waiting for them at the end :)
> 
> Actually, I'm one of the looky-loos.  I was only trying to understand what 
> this is
> all about and don't have any applications.  I didn't fully understand the
> background and objectives after the first few questions, so I left.  It's 
> probably
> just me though, my wife repeatedly says I'm a little dense.
> 
> Greg Lubel wrote:
> > Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a quick
> question to those of you who've looked at it and decided not to complete it.
> >
> > Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it better,
> to encourage completion?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> 
> --
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> 
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Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Greg Lubel]

Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a quick question 
to those of you who've looked at it and decided not to complete it.

Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it better, to 
encourage completion?

Many thanks,

Greg

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Tom Brennan]

Tell them there's a printable $10 bill waiting for them at the end :)

Actually, I'm one of the looky-loos.  I was only trying to understand 
what this is all about and don't have any applications.  I didn't fully 
understand the background and objectives after the first few questions, 
so I left.  It's probably just me though, my wife repeatedly says I'm a 
little dense.


Greg Lubel wrote:

Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a quick question 
to those of you who've looked at it and decided not to complete it.

Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it better, to 
encourage completion?

Many thanks,

Greg

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Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

[Steve Beaver]

Tom, 

My best description would be SHARE on-line where the audience that can respond 
with suggestions and/or answers

Steve  


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Share your z Systems expertise: survey improvement

Tell them there's a printable $10 bill waiting for them at the end :)

Actually, I'm one of the looky-loos.  I was only trying to understand what this 
is all about and don't have any applications.  I didn't fully understand the 
background and objectives after the first few questions, so I left.  It's 
probably just me though, my wife repeatedly says I'm a little dense.

Greg Lubel wrote:
> Thanks to all who have followed the link to my survey. This is a quick 
> question to those of you who've looked at it and decided not to complete it.
> 
> Would you mind letting me know in a sentence how I could make it better, to 
> encourage completion?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Greg
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> 

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