Re: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]

2018-01-17 Thread Edward Gould 
> On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:16 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 
>  wrote:
> 
> On this Wikipedia page, notes #44 and #45 lead to IBM z/VSE history pages 
> that may tell you what you want to know.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_IBM_mainframe_operating_systems#DOS/VS
>  
> 
> 
> 1980's VSE history:   
> https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history1980s.html 
> 
> 
> 1990's VSE history:   
> https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history1990s.html 
> 
> 
> 2000's VSE History:   
> https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2000s.html 
> 
> 
> 2010's VSE History:   
> https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2010s.html 
> 
> 
> Each of the IBM pages has a link to the next decade's history page, so you 
> can start with the 1980's page and proceed to the others in sequence.
> 
> I didn't read all the IBM pages closely, but I didn't see VSE/AF jump out.  
> Was that actually a version?
> 
> ECPS:VSE was a hardware feature on the 43xx machines (I know for sure it was 
> on the 4361, not sure about other models).  IIRC it provided microcode 
> assists for VSE under VM.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Peter

Peter:

It was on a 4331 that we had for testing.
Ed


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]

2018-01-17 Thread Barry Merrill 
You said: 

"The 3370s had a manufacturing fault that caused HDA failures. 
A good friend was an IBM CE and he told me that it was caused 
by contaminated lubricant."

In about 1975, I recall Roger Buchanan, an IBM CE originally from Australia,
described an IBM Disk Error problem he had just recently resolved, and I
think it was with the first European delivery of 3330s.

Apparently the new drives had been stored in several warehouses worldwide,
including one in Germany, awaiting the GA for shipment, and when those
first shipments went out, one-half of all of the European-stored drives
failed, with no other failures reported from any other warehouse.

Fortunately, IBM kept meticulous records of exactly where the drives had
been stored, so it only took a few days of failures to determine that 
all of the failed drives had been stored on the perimeter of the room,
and there were no failures for the interior stored devices.
By then, all of the failed devices had been replaced from other warehouses.

It took somewhat longer to determine the actual cause.
The walls of the storage room had been painted in a silicon-based paint,
and that silicon had leeched (?) into the silicon substrate of those
devices near the silicon wall (platters or electronics??).

Barry


Merrilly yours,

 Herbert W. Barry Merrill, PhD
 President-Programmer
 Merrill Consultants
 MXG Software
 10717 Cromwell Drive  technical questions: supp...@mxg.com
 Dallas, TX 75229
 http://www.mxg.comadmin questions: ad...@mxg.com
 tel: 214 351 1966
 fax: 214 350 3694



 


 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Wayne Bickerdike
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 5:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]

I remember the 3310. IBM called them "piccolo" drives because of the noise the 
actuators made.

We received a bunch of these as replacements for faulty 3370s. That was back in 
1981 when I was working at ICI Petrochemicals in the UK.

The 3370s had a manufacturing fault that caused HDA failures. A good friend was 
an IBM CE and he told me that it was caused by contaminated lubricant.

It only affected drives manufactured at the plant in Germany. US drives weren't 
affected.

That was my first foray into DOS/VSE and FBA architecture.

We were running on a 4331 box, it was tiny and we ran ADABAS and CICS with a 
bunch of batch programs that built a bill of materials reporting system.

Batch runs took 24 + hours and the particular technique we used to drive the 
totals up the hierarchy destroyed those 3370s. (Lots of VSAM inserts and CI/CA 
splits).

We optimised the solution by using ADABAS which did work better than VSAM at 
the time.

Pretty sure that VSE/AF was a release too.

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:

> Thanks. I was really hoping for something that listed all of the 
> players, with dates.
>
> VSE/AF was an add-on DOS/VSE package, just as MVS/SE was an add-on, 
> but I don't recall anybody saying "I'm running OS/VS2 R3.7 with 
> MVS/SE" or "I'm running OS/VS2 R3.8 with MVS/SE" instead of the 
> shorter "I'm running MVS/SE" or "I'm running MVS/SE2". Likewise with VM/SE 
> and VM/BSE.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on 
> behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 <peter.far...@broadridge.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 1:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]
>
> On this Wikipedia page, notes #44 and #45 lead to IBM z/VSE history 
> pages that may tell you what you want to know.
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Hxni8z1xE6vDmveRBopjI3Vzv4qg9
> VQ9eZGrH7t2axlv2TXRuKnDcewtJL-hrpi8jwK3-GxrA-
> 2iIMOvZDRBBfUNxKH2YcS14FFnmmhJH8BilUDJ1_2fI_5ME-
> 1hcCiY4dtKk8BTHa4OU6MfD7om1snenBWocvMGhl9GvOLU0_SOumoC5h-SVpLXZF_fC_
> aZLNzcOoQkWOHCDg6EhiG_kuy613a7e10fUIKzh-OapHJjXeZgVzPmkE1JIrW3eqtWAaxH
> eHFBht9WMWu5HxrN0rT_G2I-jEIzGTcNKtmOQfe1k--Q0UIKlGX2P1YoZJPSn6SKoEFiqv
> 9AD qG0PB3IvtsFsaIpaeCFoMMwXzsHPbebyeNDS7pKAq0_bLLcvaHD8dg6P2PU_
> hyO9MaXHylVHJzPZYhoUg3Uqk6r93PuIyH8nr2wio5V00QSoeYBZEzu/
> https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHistory_of_IBM_
> mainframe_operating_systems#DOS/VS
>
> 1980's VSE history: https://secure-web.cisco.com/
> 1mhCrVwIL6XNHIiS5zTkFhpBby8bw8liiRCkscsxbarX123Dg5jOSVKmKsH7
> ad9EfIz7qIm2VVjm9Z7niqX7VrOYwox2dnKpLjSm1a4bqN28BrF0nUCxpLYq
> EgyI9sWzR8x15GQT8mhNnr7iBxhHfQHD3hNKOYFygabIef1J9hcGY0ePFJPB
> RCtLVtsFarc387G5z2gY2lEqN7e-2ZYPN7cE2fKe6SWiDdlMkdc6vKiZYN
> dLbLrWHW0yzZ8YEjssi7Ek0bjZJYXIpSG6BW49F2LPvg9d6OTqa

Re: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]

2018-01-17 Thread Wayne Bickerdike 
In 1987 I worked on a variant of the 4331. The 8890.

Sold by Nixdorf but manufactured by Hitachi in Israel. We ran DOS/VSE with
FBA drives made by Fujitsu but rebadged as Nixdorf.

It was replaced by an IBM 9370 with 9335 FBA drives. The 2.5 MIPS of this
box soon maxed out and we went back to a more conventional NAS box with
Hitachi DASD.



On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Michel Beaulieu <beaulieumic...@live.ca>
wrote:

> I was an IBM systems engineer  in that time  1980-1983.
> If memory serves me well: there was ECPS:VSE to run VSE/SP v1 natively on
> 4331 and 4341
>
> with single level storage (somewhat like a s/38 back then).
> ECPS:VM was the microcode to provide VM assists to VM/SP v1.
> The base code was DOS/VSE ( kind of follow on release to DOS/VS r34).
> Adding VSE/Advanced Functions on top of DOS/VSE was the building blocks of
> VSE/SP v1.
> VSE/SP was the preferred  delivery packaging. With the Other Program
> Products included in SIPO tapes.
> --
> Later, IBM would do one extra level of integration and build  VM/SP
> Express and VSE/SP Express
>
> tailored to the client configuration, the installation could restore a
> running system using FCOPY or DDR.
>
>
> Michel Beaulieu
>
> |*|
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf
> of Farley, Peter x23353 <peter.far...@broadridge.com>
> Sent: January 17, 2018 1:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]
>
> On this Wikipedia page, notes #44 and #45 lead to IBM z/VSE history pages
> that may tell you what you want to know.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_IBM_mainframe_
> operating_systems#DOS/VS
>
> 1980's VSE history: https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/
> history1980s.html
>
> 1990's VSE history: https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/
> history1990s.html
>
> 2000's VSE History: https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/
> history2000s.html
> [https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/resources/systemz_v17_
> zvse_images_zvselogo4_123x50.jpg]<https://www-03.ibm.com/
> systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2000s.html>
>
> IBM: z/VSE Operating System - History - 2000s<https://www-03.ibm.com/
> systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2000s.html>
> www-03.ibm.com
> Information about IBM's VSE operating system. Page describes VSE history
> in the 2000s.
>
>
>
> 2010's VSE History: https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/
> history2010s.html
> IBM: z/VSE Operating System - History - 2010s<https://www-03.ibm.com/
> systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2010s.html>
> www-03.ibm.com
> Information about IBM's VSE operating system. Page describes VSE history
> in the 2010s.
>
>
>
> Each of the IBM pages has a link to the next decade's history page, so you
> can start with the 1980's page and proceed to the others in sequence.
>
> I didn't read all the IBM pages closely, but I didn't see VSE/AF jump
> out.  Was that actually a version?
>
> ECPS:VSE was a hardware feature on the 43xx machines (I know for sure it
> was on the 4361, not sure about other models).  IIRC it provided microcode
> assists for VSE under VM.
>
> HTH
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:33 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: VSAM usage for ancient disk models
>
> Of course I remember the 3310, although I never used one. But your post
> reminds me of a question.
>
> Does anybody have a VSE timeline from the original DOS/VSE and ECPS:VSE
> that includes all of the packages, e.g., VSE/AF? There's a wike article on
> VSE and I'd like to flesh that out, or, better, put someone up to doing so.
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf
> of Farley, Peter x23353 <peter.far...@broadridge.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 11:10 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: VSAM usage for ancient disk models
>
> The 3090 processor controllers ran VM/370 on 3370 (FBA) disks.  I was able
> to actually see one of these at a large NYC shop in the 1990's while
> touring it with a friend who was the VP of Operations there.  The 3270
> screen inside the 3090 box had the VM/370 screen logo.
>
> That made my day.  I was a VM/VSE guy at the time and really resented the
> way that MVS shops looked down on us, as if we were deprived, backwards
> children.
>
>

Re: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]

2018-01-17 Thread Wayne Bickerdike 
I remember the 3310. IBM called them "piccolo" drives because of the noise
the actuators made.

We received a bunch of these as replacements for faulty 3370s. That was
back in 1981 when I was working at ICI Petrochemicals in the UK.

The 3370s had a manufacturing fault that caused HDA failures. A good friend
was an IBM CE and he told me that it was caused by contaminated lubricant.

It only affected drives manufactured at the plant in Germany. US drives
weren't affected.

That was my first foray into DOS/VSE and FBA architecture.

We were running on a 4331 box, it was tiny and we ran ADABAS and CICS with
a bunch of batch programs that built a bill of materials reporting system.

Batch runs took 24 + hours and the particular technique we used to drive
the totals up the hierarchy destroyed those 3370s. (Lots of VSAM inserts
and CI/CA splits).

We optimised the solution by using ADABAS which did work better than VSAM
at the time.

Pretty sure that VSE/AF was a release too.

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:

> Thanks. I was really hoping for something that listed all of the players,
> with dates.
>
> VSE/AF was an add-on DOS/VSE package, just as MVS/SE was an add-on, but I
> don't recall anybody saying "I'm running OS/VS2 R3.7 with MVS/SE" or "I'm
> running OS/VS2 R3.8 with MVS/SE" instead of the shorter "I'm running
> MVS/SE" or "I'm running MVS/SE2". Likewise with VM/SE and VM/BSE.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf
> of Farley, Peter x23353 <peter.far...@broadridge.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 1:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]
>
> On this Wikipedia page, notes #44 and #45 lead to IBM z/VSE history pages
> that may tell you what you want to know.
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Hxni8z1xE6vDmveRBopjI3Vzv4qg9
> VQ9eZGrH7t2axlv2TXRuKnDcewtJL-hrpi8jwK3-GxrA-
> 2iIMOvZDRBBfUNxKH2YcS14FFnmmhJH8BilUDJ1_2fI_5ME-
> 1hcCiY4dtKk8BTHa4OU6MfD7om1snenBWocvMGhl9GvOLU0_SOumoC5h-SVpLXZF_fC_
> aZLNzcOoQkWOHCDg6EhiG_kuy613a7e10fUIKzh-OapHJjXeZgVzPmkE1JIrW3eqtWAaxH
> eHFBht9WMWu5HxrN0rT_G2I-jEIzGTcNKtmOQfe1k--Q0UIKlGX2P1YoZJPSn6SKoEFiqv9AD
> qG0PB3IvtsFsaIpaeCFoMMwXzsHPbebyeNDS7pKAq0_bLLcvaHD8dg6P2PU_
> hyO9MaXHylVHJzPZYhoUg3Uqk6r93PuIyH8nr2wio5V00QSoeYBZEzu/
> https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHistory_of_IBM_
> mainframe_operating_systems#DOS/VS
>
> 1980's VSE history: https://secure-web.cisco.com/
> 1mhCrVwIL6XNHIiS5zTkFhpBby8bw8liiRCkscsxbarX123Dg5jOSVKmKsH7
> ad9EfIz7qIm2VVjm9Z7niqX7VrOYwox2dnKpLjSm1a4bqN28BrF0nUCxpLYq
> EgyI9sWzR8x15GQT8mhNnr7iBxhHfQHD3hNKOYFygabIef1J9hcGY0ePFJPB
> RCtLVtsFarc387G5z2gY2lEqN7e-2ZYPN7cE2fKe6SWiDdlMkdc6vKiZYN
> dLbLrWHW0yzZ8YEjssi7Ek0bjZJYXIpSG6BW49F2LPvg9d6OTqa5tfdhgYcB
> k7YHuD19oVd02c1GoZe_u-XB1Az7by4zHbAgG4hyQrDiY9-
> mDz0RVkx2NKR7y4eptT43nCdIeuq0Jm0_sf_7B4A7TWWAR3E2Wbb7VuUC9b9O7KKRy
> J1kve_TXVodmW6kovwAgZ_pDwmDDagNzWKgbKd/https%3A%2F%
> 2Fwww-03.ibm.com%2Fsystems%2Fz%2Fos%2Fzvse%2Fabout%2Fhistory1980s.html
>
> 1990's VSE history: https://secure-web.cisco.com/
> 1db5triiP9Ds00aTgPbxRFOmDUxC7BcMOtYsni3chH_xTYDM6Oh7-
> 470gMWwkxX0MAM_Z3kJtt_3TMfyV6LtgguCau43dVKqo5c15wNS4
> Phz8J5hGLYOCphPa6Yr6yBekoeDHRBqKyuLjryQPwQ7-LMXfAUj-
> IIph9kHUEeQtMM53xEVXtGRrZQCR4Z4bRcNTzPq3PJ1wJTD_
> jc0fbrg6zhbAs1sc5upKKbHaexk9SjlBDmUOMapCcAK9nc2WDoKgNac7IGwu
> nTJx6TuB9GVM5Tr-Uxgor1Q-TNGIxBowgGDj44QcnDLn6360t_
> upTuYGF6x4lGqh3it7M0umpzf5gNvL7XuzX5mJTF1UrF3mhT7Xv8HTiCcD6S
> nD4OdW0lMJjbccB91nrGhca_P-p8cxuB8Meuwfjd1MFNI9E3PhZWDyBx
> rIDst-2WlYNpXNl-pn/https%3A%2F%2Fwww-03.ibm.com%2Fsystems%
> 2Fz%2Fos%2Fzvse%2Fabout%2Fhistory1990s.html
>
> 2000's VSE History: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1YAJcM2hjsRtdB76Ykv4-
> xfcVxX9mZBM-miQiMaWZiMyZ5CwcfGZERmXiCP6s_bRp0VbwtNPwnK_
> gUaUXgvL5MWfDfO2Fc9kg9FdFAvDqjymGiE2jUwJSqstRmjZpfmhNHMkmIKG
> fG6ZOIiAvkZMpqJn4D0GCRpijfgGaJuMUgPYyl_C0-K-NtwR5KbO-
> N8z4adwawT6HykdeyvYnISd4Cu9p9jWhRKNSTQT25asdIhy205GoNcQabEg8
> lx04K9Db2vuNCB91OTLRWmkrY8Gvqr9sKYYpSsZnbvYkNfHj1Ae6kvKbEmjy
> fdFGiyaF4zBdS_RT7Q2FC_HUBRDCnCnZ7zL-zWqFJFJLlhrjV-
> lznxO0QO35QLDzewLgbPRAWnyc9c6cjha0fQSWkwOlQqt-B_
> xqfrKyP2v5VFaDncDLID5v49IBZzbP-chGTGQ9wkzU/https%3A%2F%
> 2Fwww-03.ibm.com%2Fsystems%2Fz%2Fos%2Fzvse%2Fabout%2Fhistory2000s.html
>
> 2010's VSE History: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Exaa9ZQSTz7_
> WUzVgXvYovWsRd92i3gPMDwkcdr4IR4zKNZw8V5o5tQu1ZQrDQPf_
> cwB4nWBr-cCdZoQavq7_mmF5ll3-gHT8M7mZiJhzd-q5CNZIJgl1cyXJomO2RNjqTXKyIRsQ
> XYap2gbw5a5ml0Box3VuUH1-TAzNSYOdHC8LzPwjx9j8c-gsqnncH6C3pQ3_
> 4Q2zKDtrMjhzrtKsrw7kuLKHdDQ_FOUjXh

VSE timeline [was: RE: VSAM usage for ancient disk models]

2018-01-17 Thread Farley, Peter x23353 
On this Wikipedia page, notes #44 and #45 lead to IBM z/VSE history pages that 
may tell you what you want to know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_IBM_mainframe_operating_systems#DOS/VS

1980's VSE history: 
https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history1980s.html

1990's VSE history: 
https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history1990s.html

2000's VSE History: 
https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2000s.html

2010's VSE History: 
https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zvse/about/history2010s.html

Each of the IBM pages has a link to the next decade's history page, so you can 
start with the 1980's page and proceed to the others in sequence.

I didn't read all the IBM pages closely, but I didn't see VSE/AF jump out.  Was 
that actually a version?

ECPS:VSE was a hardware feature on the 43xx machines (I know for sure it was on 
the 4361, not sure about other models).  IIRC it provided microcode assists for 
VSE under VM.

HTH

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: VSAM usage for ancient disk models

Of course I remember the 3310, although I never used one. But your post reminds 
me of a question.

Does anybody have a VSE timeline from the original DOS/VSE and ECPS:VSE that 
includes all of the packages, e.g., VSE/AF? There's a wike article on VSE and 
I'd like to flesh that out, or, better, put someone up to doing so.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Farley, Peter x23353 
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: VSAM usage for ancient disk models

The 3090 processor controllers ran VM/370 on 3370 (FBA) disks.  I was able to 
actually see one of these at a large NYC shop in the 1990's while touring it 
with a friend who was the VP of Operations there.  The 3270 screen inside the 
3090 box had the VM/370 screen logo.

That made my day.  I was a VM/VSE guy at the time and really resented the way 
that MVS shops looked down on us, as if we were deprived, backwards children.

And you are right, the 3375's were 3370 boxes that emulated CKD on physical FBA 
geometry.

Anyone remember 3310's?  Smaller FBA brothers of the 3370 DASD, sold with 4331 
low-end CPU's for VM/VSE usage.  There was a special VSE version created in the 
mid 1980's (SSX/VSE) with simplified and largely menu-driven system generation 
and maintenance intended for sale with those low-end 4331 systems.  The ISV I 
worked at then got to play with SSX/VSE to set up our product for menu-driven 
installation on one of those systems.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Dana Mitchell
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: VSAM usage for ancient disk models

Current (for us 2.1)  z/OS HCD still shows 3375 as a valid DASD device type.   
IIRC  3375 was emulated CKD on FBA 3370 HDA's.   I also think 3375s were used 
as the storage for the embedded 43X1's used as processor controllers on 3090s.

Dana
--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this 
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any 
attachments from your system.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN