Re: [Trustees] Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions (TLP)
Scott O. Bradner wrote: 1st way: The IETF community provides the IETF Trust with a specific request and the Trust provides possible changes or new text to meet the specific request. The IETF request can come form a WG, in which case it should be in the form of a BCP (an IETF consensus document) or, with a public justification, from the IETF Chair (or maybe the IAB Chair). The Trust publishes the proposed changes with a 4-week last call and the changes are adopted if the IETF Chair determines that there is IETF consensus support for the specific changes. Isn't this what has essentially happened in this case? RFC 5377 and 5378 were published and other issues were raised later on. The Trust responded by reviewing the TLP and suggest modifications based on the RFC and discussions afterwards. The modifications are now out for a 30 day community review. Henk -- Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.xs4all.nl/~henku P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The NetherlandsThe NetherlandsMobile: +31.6.55861746 -- Belgium: an unsolvable problem, discussed in endless meetings, with no hope for a solution, where everybody still lives happily. ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: [Trustees] Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions (TLP)
Isn't this what has essentially happened in this case? I did not see a statement from the IETF asking for changes nor did I see a statement from the Trust saying that there are these issues that need to be fixed for legal or cosmetic reasons maybe there were such statements and I missed them what I did see was a bunch of changes without anything that said specifically what problem each change was trying to solve (not a justification for the change but a reason that any change is needed at all) we have been changing the IETF's IPR rules far too often (and I'm in no small way responsible for many of the changes) we should get out of that mode and only be making changes where there is a speific need to do so. Scott ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: [Trustees] Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions(TLP)
Henk Uijterwaal henk at ripe dot net wrote: Isn't this what has essentially happened in this case? RFC 5377 and 5378 were published and other issues were raised later on. The Trust responded by reviewing the TLP and suggest modifications based on the RFC and discussions afterwards. The modifications are now out for a 30 day community review. The Trustees announced six changes on July 18, and set the end of the comment period at July 23. That's not a 30-day community review of the six changes, that's a 5-day review. -- Doug Ewell * Thornton, Colorado, USA * RFC 4645 * UTN #14 http://www.ewellic.org http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages ˆ ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: [Trustees] Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions(TLP)
On Jul 19, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: Henk Uijterwaal henk at ripe dot net wrote: Isn't this what has essentially happened in this case? RFC 5377 and 5378 were published and other issues were raised later on. The Trust responded by reviewing the TLP and suggest modifications based on the RFC and discussions afterwards. The modifications are now out for a 30 day community review. The Trustees announced six changes on July 18, and set the end of the comment period at July 23. That's not a 30-day community review of the six changes, that's a 5-day review. As Marshall's email of 18 July said: Since the original call went out on the 23rd of June, the comment period is extended to the 23rd of July. The 'six changes' reflected interim decisions made by the Trustees as a result of community input during this period. A revised TLP will not be adopted until after the 30 day period, likely to be while in Stockholm. Those 6 interim decisions and the remaining document are still before the community for feedback to the Trustees. Ray Trustee -- Doug Ewell * Thornton, Colorado, USA * RFC 4645 * UTN #14 http://www.ewellic.org http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages ˆ ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: [Trustees] Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions(TLP)
--On Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:18 PM -0400 Ray Pelletier rpellet...@isoc.org wrote: The Trustees announced six changes on July 18, and set the end of the comment period at July 23. That's not a 30-day community review of the six changes, that's a 5-day review. As Marshall's email of 18 July said: Since the original call went out on the 23rd of June, the comment period is extended to the 23rd of July. The 'six changes' reflected interim decisions made by the Trustees as a result of community input during this period. A revised TLP will not be adopted until after the 30 day period, likely to be while in Stockholm. Those 6 interim decisions and the remaining document are still before the community for feedback to the Trustees. Ray, Noting that this issue is included in my request to the Trustees that they review these decisions and the ways of doing business that cause them... * There is, as far as I know, no precedent for an IETF-related body to announce a public comment period on a document, make a series of interim decisions and announce them five days before the end of that period, and then leave the comment period termination date in place rather than restarting the review on the revised document. * BCP 101 requires that the IAOC and, by extension, the Trustees, explain the reasoning for their decisions. While Marshall's interim posting arguably does that for the changes that were made (the community's comments were accepted), it does not do so for any of the changes that were not made after other community comments. Independent of when the comment period ends, that makes the interim announcement (and probably the original one) invalid. --john ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Rationale for Proposed TLP Revisions
The IETF Trustees invited community comments on the proposed revisions to the Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (TLP) policy on 23 June 2009. The proposed revisions are in rtf, pdf and doc formats and located at: http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html under Draft Policies and Procedures for IETF Documents. On 18 July, in a reply to Subject: Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions (TLP), the IETF Trust Chair said: The rationale for the remaining summary of proposed changes will be sent in a separate email. This is a summary of the proposed revisions to the TLP by section with explanations, where needed: 2.f -- this new language describes the conditions under which the IETF Trust will assume licensing and copyright responsibility for IAB, IRTF and Independent Stream submissions, should the managers of those streams request that it do so. Explanation: The IETF Trust was approached by representatives of the IAB, IRTF and RFC Editor, who asked the Trust to assume the role of license administrator for their respective document streams. The Trust is happy to do so as part of its role supporting the IETF. The language included in new Section 2.f of the TLP describes the procedure by which the Trust proposes to handle documents from these non-IETF streams. 4.c -- clarifies that the BSD License may not be applied to Code Components that come from IETF Documents as to which the Contributor has prohibited the making of derivative works. Explanation: An IETF participant noticed that, under the existing TLP, the broad BSD adoption language might trump a contributor's prohibition on the right to make derivative works of his/her contribution. The new language clarifies that the BSD license will not apply if the contributor has specified that no derivative works may be made of his/her contribution. 4.e -- this new section clarifies the legend requirements for Code Components that are used in software under the BSD License. In short, the user must include the full BSD License text or a shorter pointer to it (which is set forth in Section 6.d) Explanation: The issue of the appropriate BSD License language to include in Code Components extracted from IETF documents has been discussed extensively within the IESG. The proposed TLP language is intended to be consistent with the IESG's latest guidance language, and allows the user of IETF Code to include either the full BSD license language (about 15 lines of text), or a short pointer to the BSD language (about 4 lines). 6 -- the language regarding placement of legends on IETF Documents has been clarified. Placement on the first page is no longer required, and authority for placement of the legends is with the RFC Editor and IESG. Explanation: Self-explanatory 6.a - the words to IETF have been removed, to enable submission to IAB, IRFT and other streams. Explanation: Self-explanatory 6.b -- a new sentence has been added to the legend that must be placed on all IETF Documents, pointing out the BSD License requirements described in 4.e above and emphasizing that code in IETF Documents comes without any warranty, as described in the BSD License. Explanation: See 4.e above 6.d -- the BSD legend/pointer described in 4.e above Explanation: See 4.e above Comments on the proposed revisions to the TLP are welcomed. Ray Trustee ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Rationale for Proposed TLP Revisions
The IETF Trustees invited community comments on the proposed revisions to the Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (TLP) policy on 23 June 2009. The proposed revisions are in rtf, pdf and doc formats and located at: http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html under Draft Policies and Procedures for IETF Documents. On 18 July, in a reply to Subject: Proposed Revisions to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions (TLP), the IETF Trust Chair said: The rationale for the remaining summary of proposed changes will be sent in a separate email. This is a summary of the proposed revisions to the TLP by section with explanations, where needed: 2.f -- this new language describes the conditions under which the IETF Trust will assume licensing and copyright responsibility for IAB, IRTF and Independent Stream submissions, should the managers of those streams request that it do so. Explanation: The IETF Trust was approached by representatives of the IAB, IRTF and RFC Editor, who asked the Trust to assume the role of license administrator for their respective document streams. The Trust is happy to do so as part of its role supporting the IETF. The language included in new Section 2.f of the TLP describes the procedure by which the Trust proposes to handle documents from these non-IETF streams. 4.c -- clarifies that the BSD License may not be applied to Code Components that come from IETF Documents as to which the Contributor has prohibited the making of derivative works. Explanation: An IETF participant noticed that, under the existing TLP, the broad BSD adoption language might trump a contributor's prohibition on the right to make derivative works of his/her contribution. The new language clarifies that the BSD license will not apply if the contributor has specified that no derivative works may be made of his/her contribution. 4.e -- this new section clarifies the legend requirements for Code Components that are used in software under the BSD License. In short, the user must include the full BSD License text or a shorter pointer to it (which is set forth in Section 6.d) Explanation: The issue of the appropriate BSD License language to include in Code Components extracted from IETF documents has been discussed extensively within the IESG. The proposed TLP language is intended to be consistent with the IESG's latest guidance language, and allows the user of IETF Code to include either the full BSD license language (about 15 lines of text), or a short pointer to the BSD language (about 4 lines). 6 -- the language regarding placement of legends on IETF Documents has been clarified. Placement on the first page is no longer required, and authority for placement of the legends is with the RFC Editor and IESG. Explanation: Self-explanatory 6.a - the words to IETF have been removed, to enable submission to IAB, IRFT and other streams. Explanation: Self-explanatory 6.b -- a new sentence has been added to the legend that must be placed on all IETF Documents, pointing out the BSD License requirements described in 4.e above and emphasizing that code in IETF Documents comes without any warranty, as described in the BSD License. Explanation: See 4.e above 6.d -- the BSD legend/pointer described in 4.e above Explanation: See 4.e above Comments on the proposed revisions to the TLP are welcomed. Ray Trustee ___ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
Last Call: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-end-of-lib (LDP End-of-LIB) to Proposed Standard
The IESG has received a request from the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG (mpls) to consider the following document: - 'LDP End-of-LIB ' draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-end-of-lib-03.txt as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the i...@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-08-02. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to i...@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-end-of-lib-03.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_iddTag=17456rfc_flag=0 ___ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
