Re: [77all] No Host for IETF 77
On 3/23/10 2:08 PM, Jari Arkko wrote: I propose $40 for a seat at the table in the front of the meeting rooms, $20 for a seat toward the front with extra legroom and $100 for an exit row. Ability to escape seems most valuable ;-) Maybe we could also work out something based on premium Internet access ($29.90/day) vs. ability to read Internet drafts and other ietf.org content (free). Or, charge for IPv4 access and let IPv6 access be available for free. - Mark Jari ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist (Mailing Lists and Internationalized Email Addresses) to Experimental RFC
At 16:44 23-03-10, The IESG wrote:
The IESG has received a request from the Email Address
Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document:
- 'Mailing Lists and Internationalized Email Addresses '
draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-06.txt as an Experimental RFC
The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
These comments should not be read as a review of the document.
I suggest switch Section 1 and Section 2. BTW, there is a dot after
Intended Status: Experimental
I suggest reusing the text from the Abstract as the first paragraph
in Section 2 as it makes the scope mentioned in Section 3 clearer:
This document describes considerations for mailing lists with the
introduction of internationalized email addresses {RFC5336] and
makes some specific recommendations on how mailing lists should
act in various situations.
In Section 2:
Some mailing lists alter the message header, while others do not.
Shouldn't that be message header fields?
(that is, each address either is ASCII or has an ALT-ADDRESS).
I suggest adding a reference to RFC 5336 for ALT-ADDRESS.
In Section 5, some editorial changes are suggested for the second paragraph:
List-Id: List Header Mailing List list-header.example.com
List-Help: mailto:l...@example.com?subject=help (List Instructions)
List-Unsubscribe: mailto:l...@example.com?subject=unsubscribe
List-Subscribe: mailto:l...@example.com?subject=subscribe
List-Post: mailto:l...@example.com
List-Owner: mailto:list...@example.com (Contact Person for Help)
List-Archive: mailto:arch...@example.com?subject=index%20list
When a UTF-8 mailto is used in a List-* header field, an
alt-address, if available, SHOULD immediately follow it.
That would make draft-duerst-mailto-bis, currently at -08, a
normative reference.
RFC 2369, RFC 2919, RFC 5504 and RFC 5336 should be normative references.
Regards,
-sm
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Why the normative form of IETF Standards is ASCII
On 27.03.2010 00:17, Martin Rex wrote: ... If an I-D author has issues with idnits complaining about formatting, then the toolchain of that author is likely responsible for this shortcoming. ... Indeed; or the lack of a tool chain :-) ... IMHO, being able to do this without chasing around for an authoring version of someone else's draft is neat. For various reasons, asking the original I-D editor for an authoring format version of his I-D was not an option -- and an XML-based authoring format would have been entirely useless to me anyway. ... Just clarifying: but it would have been helpful for other authors that use xml2rfc. Thus, it's good to submit it with the Internet Draft when available. (But PLEASE submit standalone versions that do not require additional files; xml2rfc's toxml mode is your friend). ... Personally, I know very little about XML. I don't use it my self, the code that I'm writing and maintaining neither uses nor creates XML. All of my Editors are plain text editors and I don't know or care how any of my Browsers (MSIE6 or FF3.5) could be made to display XML. ... I'm editing XML code with a text editor. This is not a problem. I realize that you don't care about the XML format, and doing it in browsers, but for those who might be interested: - Get rfc2629.xslt (distribution archive at http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt.zip) - Add ?xml-stylesheet type='text/xsl' href='rfc2629.xslt' ? to the top of the source file (but after the XML declaration) - Point your browser to the source file (works with the two browsers Martin mentioned, and all recent ones anyway). - Caveats: do not use the PI-based inclusion mechanism; more documentation at http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt/rfc2629xslt.html. ... (and the editing process I use must be entirely offline capable for policy reasons that are otherwise not relevant to this discussion). ... Yes, that's a given. You don't need to repeat that :-) Best regards, Julian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
Even though many of you are still fighting jet lag, it's never too soon to start thinking about the next IETF meeting! Below some musings on how to get to Maastricht from various airports to aid those who want to book their plane and possibly train tickets. Lunch: But before that: Maastricht is the Netherlands' 19th largest city, about the same size as Ann Arbor. (Just over 100k inhabitants.) The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city center, where the restaurants are. That's too far to walk for lunch, and I doubt the city busses or taxis are up to the task of transporting a thousand hungry IETF'ers back and fro in the alotted time, either. So it would be very good if lunch arrangements similar to those in Dublin could be made. Ground transport: Maastricht is located in the far southeast of the Netherlands, 215 km (by road) from Amsterdam. The city is located on the Belgian border and is also very close to Germany. There are some smaller airports closer to Maastricht than the ones mentioned below, but those don't serve many destinations and don't connect to the rail network so more hassle and as much or more time to reach Maastricht despite the shorter distance. Only consider these smaller airports if you know what you're doing. You can of course rent a car at one of the airports and drive to Maastricht, and even commute between the MECC and your hotel by car if the hotel is located outside the inner city, but you'll probably need to get into the city for dinner anyway and being a few thousand years old, Maastricht's city center isn't really built for cars. The most convenient airport to use would be Schiphol (Amsterdam) airport. From there, it takes about 2 hours, 35 minutes with one change to get to Maastricht by train with a connection every 30 minutes. A second class one way ticket is 27.50 euros. The last train from Schiphol to Maastricht is at 22:16. The first train to Schiphol arrives at nine. A good alternative is Brussels, from where Maastricht is about two hours with one or two changes and one connection per hour with regular national and international trains. The last connection to Maastricht is at around 21:39. The first train to Brussels airport arrives at nine on weekdays, ten on weekends. There are also a few high speed train connections which save you 30 minutes. If you're arriving in Europe through Frankfurt or Paris, it may not make too much sense to first connect to Amsterdam or Brussels and then sit in a train for a few more hours. You may as well take the train directly from these airports to Maastricht. However, consider that missing train/plane connections is your problem, while plane/plane connections are the airline's problem. (Financially, at least.) From Frankfurt, there is one connection per hour (weekdays) or one every two hours (weekends) that takes 4 hours, 46 minutes with regular national and international trains. The last connection to Maastricht without high speed trains leaves at around 18:22. The first connection to FRA without high speed trains arrives at 13:36. From Frankfurt it is (of course) faster to take a high speed train, and from Paris it's the only option. The downside of high speed trains is that you can't just hop on like on a regular train, you need to book or reserve a seat on a specific train. Also, they run less often so if you miss one, you're in big trouble. Also check prices before you book (usually available 90 days before the travel date), international trains in general and especially high speed trains can be quite expensive. From Frankfurt, there is an ICE connection several times a day that takes between 3 hours and 3 hours 41 minutes with 2 or 3 changes. The last connection to Maastricht is at 21:09. The first connection to FRA arrives at 10:16, 11:51 on sundays. From Paris, there is a thalys connection every two hours or so in the weekend and a bit more often during weekdays. The journey takes between 3 hours, 15 minutes and 4 hours, 10 minutes, with one or two changes. The last connection to Maastricht is at 20:04 on weekdays and 18:49 on weekends. On weekdays, the first train to CDG arrives at 10:44, on the weekends 11:36. You can also get from Heathrow to Maastricht in 5 to 6 hours with 2 or 3 changes, but as the last connection from Heathrow is around five and from Maastricht the first one arrives at around noon (two hours later on weekends), this seriously limits your flight options. The best place to investigate rail connections is http://www.bahn.de/ You may also want to check the website of NS, the Dutch railways: http://www.ns.nl/ (but only for Dutch trips, their international planner is incomplete and will often only show longer and more expensive options) and http://www.maastrichtbrusselexpress.nl/ I have no recommendations on where to book train tickets. From Schiphol, the recommended way to get to Maastricht is with a change in Utrecht. Don't
Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
[Added IAOC] Iljitsch: Thanks very much for this information. I was not aware of this: The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city center, where the restaurants are. IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht, with it being historic, nice city center and all. Iljitsch's observation makes me wonder if we learned nothing from Dublin, and are now choosing IETF venues from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_the_World#Remoteness --Richard P.S. WTFIAOC is worth 65 points in Scrabble. 69 points in the Dutch edition! Ground transport: Maastricht is located in the far southeast of the Netherlands, 215 km (by road) from Amsterdam. The city is located on the Belgian border and is also very close to Germany. There are some smaller airports closer to Maastricht than the ones mentioned below, but those don't serve many destinations and don't connect to the rail network so more hassle and as much or more time to reach Maastricht despite the shorter distance. Only consider these smaller airports if you know what you're doing. You can of course rent a car at one of the airports and drive to Maastricht, and even commute between the MECC and your hotel by car if the hotel is located outside the inner city, but you'll probably need to get into the city for dinner anyway and being a few thousand years old, Maastricht's city center isn't really built for cars. The most convenient airport to use would be Schiphol (Amsterdam) airport. From there, it takes about 2 hours, 35 minutes with one change to get to Maastricht by train with a connection every 30 minutes. A second class one way ticket is 27.50 euros. The last train from Schiphol to Maastricht is at 22:16. The first train to Schiphol arrives at nine. A good alternative is Brussels, from where Maastricht is about two hours with one or two changes and one connection per hour with regular national and international trains. The last connection to Maastricht is at around 21:39. The first train to Brussels airport arrives at nine on weekdays, ten on weekends. There are also a few high speed train connections which save you 30 minutes. If you're arriving in Europe through Frankfurt or Paris, it may not make too much sense to first connect to Amsterdam or Brussels and then sit in a train for a few more hours. You may as well take the train directly from these airports to Maastricht. However, consider that missing train/plane connections is your problem, while plane/ plane connections are the airline's problem. (Financially, at least.) From Frankfurt, there is one connection per hour (weekdays) or one every two hours (weekends) that takes 4 hours, 46 minutes with regular national and international trains. The last connection to Maastricht without high speed trains leaves at around 18:22. The first connection to FRA without high speed trains arrives at 13:36. From Frankfurt it is (of course) faster to take a high speed train, and from Paris it's the only option. The downside of high speed trains is that you can't just hop on like on a regular train, you need to book or reserve a seat on a specific train. Also, they run less often so if you miss one, you're in big trouble. Also check prices before you book (usually available 90 days before the travel date), international trains in general and especially high speed trains can be quite expensive. From Frankfurt, there is an ICE connection several times a day that takes between 3 hours and 3 hours 41 minutes with 2 or 3 changes. The last connection to Maastricht is at 21:09. The first connection to FRA arrives at 10:16, 11:51 on sundays. From Paris, there is a thalys connection every two hours or so in the weekend and a bit more often during weekdays. The journey takes between 3 hours, 15 minutes and 4 hours, 10 minutes, with one or two changes. The last connection to Maastricht is at 20:04 on weekdays and 18:49 on weekends. On weekdays, the first train to CDG arrives at 10:44, on the weekends 11:36. You can also get from Heathrow to Maastricht in 5 to 6 hours with 2 or 3 changes, but as the last connection from Heathrow is around five and from Maastricht the first one arrives at around noon (two hours later on weekends), this seriously limits your flight options. The best place to investigate rail connections is http:// www.bahn.de/ You may also want to check the website of NS, the Dutch railways: http://www.ns.nl/ (but only for Dutch trips, their international planner is incomplete and will often only show longer and more expensive options) and http://www.maastrichtbrusselexpress.nl/ I have no recommendations on where to book train tickets. From Schiphol, the recommended way to get to Maastricht is with a change in Utrecht. Don't go through Amsterdam, it takes longer and it's not covered by a regular ticket. From London, Paris and
Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
Richard == Richard Barnes rbar...@bbn.com writes: The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city center, where the restaurants are. Richard IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht, Richard with it being historic, nice city center and all. Richard Iljitsch's observation makes me wonder if we learned http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=dsource=s_dsaddr=Forum+100,+6229+GV+Maastricht,+Netherlands+(Maastrichts+Expositie+%26+Congres+Centrum+(Mecc)+B.V.)daddr=Maastrichthl=engeocode=FTC4BwMdrC9XACH4LXENCJiY-w%3BFTfoBwMd28dWACmTO154tunARzHmk2QWU-RsTAmra=ccdirflg=wsll=50.843475,5.696705sspn=0.022709,0.043559ie=UTF8t=hz=15 it appears one has to cross the river? Iljitsch can you confirm the end points are reasonable? Looking at the street map, I think that there are might be many closer restaurants, such as on Wycker Brugstraat. I wasn't in Dublin, so I don't know the issue there. Was the problem like in Vienna? -- ] He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life! | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON|net architect[ ] m...@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ Kyoto Plus: watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE then sign the petition. ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
On 29.03.2010 04:37, Michael Richardson wrote: Richard == Richard Barnesrbar...@bbn.com writes: The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city center, where the restaurants are. Richard IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht, Richard with it being historic, nice city center and all. Richard Iljitsch's observation makes me wonder if we learned http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=dsource=s_dsaddr=Forum+100,+6229+GV+Maastricht,+Netherlands+(Maastrichts+Expositie+%26+Congres+Centrum+(Mecc)+B.V.)daddr=Maastrichthl=engeocode=FTC4BwMdrC9XACH4LXENCJiY-w%3BFTfoBwMd28dWACmTO154tunARzHmk2QWU-RsTAmra=ccdirflg=wsll=50.843475,5.696705sspn=0.022709,0.043559ie=UTF8t=hz=15 it appears one has to cross the river? ... Looks like a case rental bikes to me :-) Best regards, Julian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
Richard, The site for the IETF in Dublin was easily an order of magnitude farther from the city center than the MECC. Google Maps lists several restaurants in the 2-3km range walking. That's doable even by an overweight out-of-shape American like me with the normal 1.5 hours for lunch. Would do me good to spend more time walking than eating. We could even advertise the meeting as a easy to moderate workout week! I like the idea of rental bikes, but I suspect they may sell out faster than rooms in the attached hotel... Enjoy! Chris. -- Chris Elliott On Mar 28, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Richard Barnes rbar...@bbn.com wrote: [Added IAOC] Iljitsch: Thanks very much for this information. I was not aware of this: The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city center, where the restaurants are. IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht, with it being historic, nice city center and all. Iljitsch's observation makes me wonder if we learned nothing from Dublin, and are now choosing IETF venues from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_the_World#Remoteness --Richard P.S. WTFIAOC is worth 65 points in Scrabble. 69 points in the Dutch edition! Ground transport: Maastricht is located in the far southeast of the Netherlands, 215 km (by road) from Amsterdam. The city is located on the Belgian border and is also very close to Germany. There are some smaller airports closer to Maastricht than the ones mentioned below, but those don't serve many destinations and don't connect to the rail network so more hassle and as much or more time to reach Maastricht despite the shorter distance. Only consider these smaller airports if you know what you're doing. You can of course rent a car at one of the airports and drive to Maastricht, and even commute between the MECC and your hotel by car if the hotel is located outside the inner city, but you'll probably need to get into the city for dinner anyway and being a few thousand years old, Maastricht's city center isn't really built for cars. The most convenient airport to use would be Schiphol (Amsterdam) airport. From there, it takes about 2 hours, 35 minutes with one change to get to Maastricht by train with a connection every 30 minutes. A second class one way ticket is 27.50 euros. The last train from Schiphol to Maastricht is at 22:16. The first train to Schiphol arrives at nine. A good alternative is Brussels, from where Maastricht is about two hours with one or two changes and one connection per hour with regular national and international trains. The last connection to Maastricht is at around 21:39. The first train to Brussels airport arrives at nine on weekdays, ten on weekends. There are also a few high speed train connections which save you 30 minutes. If you're arriving in Europe through Frankfurt or Paris, it may not make too much sense to first connect to Amsterdam or Brussels and then sit in a train for a few more hours. You may as well take the train directly from these airports to Maastricht. However, consider that missing train/plane connections is your problem, while plane/ plane connections are the airline's problem. (Financially, at least.) From Frankfurt, there is one connection per hour (weekdays) or one every two hours (weekends) that takes 4 hours, 46 minutes with regular national and international trains. The last connection to Maastricht without high speed trains leaves at around 18:22. The first connection to FRA without high speed trains arrives at 13:36. From Frankfurt it is (of course) faster to take a high speed train, and from Paris it's the only option. The downside of high speed trains is that you can't just hop on like on a regular train, you need to book or reserve a seat on a specific train. Also, they run less often so if you miss one, you're in big trouble. Also check prices before you book (usually available 90 days before the travel date), international trains in general and especially high speed trains can be quite expensive. From Frankfurt, there is an ICE connection several times a day that takes between 3 hours and 3 hours 41 minutes with 2 or 3 changes. The last connection to Maastricht is at 21:09. The first connection to FRA arrives at 10:16, 11:51 on sundays. From Paris, there is a thalys connection every two hours or so in the weekend and a bit more often during weekdays. The journey takes between 3 hours, 15 minutes and 4 hours, 10 minutes, with one or two changes. The last connection to Maastricht is at 20:04 on weekdays and 18:49 on weekends. On weekdays, the first train to CDG arrives at 10:44, on the weekends 11:36. You can also get from Heathrow to Maastricht in 5 to 6 hours with 2 or 3 changes, but as the last connection from Heathrow is around five and from Maastricht the first one arrives at around noon (two hours later on
RE: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
I wasn't in Dublin, so I don't know the issue there. Was the problem like in Vienna? I have to say, that I didn't find Vienna a problem at all. There was a great mass transit system, and a two minute train trip to all the restaurants in the centre of town. I don't often stay at the venue though, so I am used to a hike. Greg ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
Chris Elliott wrote: Google Maps lists several restaurants in the 2-3km range walking. That's doable even by an overweight out-of-shape American like me with the normal 1.5 hours for lunch. Would do me good to spend more time walking than eating. During meetings I appreciate opportunities to get off my can and get out of the venue but I hope there will be meal options for people who aren't able-bodied and who aren't able to walk a couple of miles during a 1.5-hour lunch break. Melinda ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
