Re: Last Call: draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp-11.txt (Transmission ofSyslog Messages over TCP) to Informational RFC

2011-12-13 Thread t.petch
I think this a valuable contribution to the work of the IETF and should become
an RFC.

I wondered if there should be a reference for US-ASCII (such as RFC0020) but on
balance I think not; in the context of this I-D, likely different people will be
using it to mean different character sets:-(

Tom Petch


- Original Message -
From: The IESG iesg-secret...@ietf.org
To: IETF-Announce ietf-annou...@ietf.org
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 AM
Subject: Last Call: draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp-11.txt (Transmission
ofSyslog Messages over TCP) to Informational RFC



 The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
 the following document:
 - 'Transmission of Syslog Messages over TCP'
   draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp-11.txt as an Informational RFC

 The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
 final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
 ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2011-12-07. Exceptionally, comments may be
 sent to i...@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
 beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

 Abstract


There have been many implementations and deployments of legacy syslog
over TCP for many years.  That protocol has evolved without being
standardized and has proven to be quite interoperable in practice.
The aim of this specification is to explain how TCP has been used as
a transport for syslog messages.




 The file can be obtained via
 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp/

 IESG discussion can be tracked via
 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp/


 No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.


 ___
 IETF-Announce mailing list
 ietf-annou...@ietf.org
 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce



___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Re: Last Call: draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp-11.txt (Transmission ofSyslog Messages over TCP) to Informational RFC

2011-12-13 Thread Donald Eastlake
That's very interesting. I've produced a number of RFCs over the years
that reference US-ASCII and, since I had no idea that RFC 20 existed
(it wasn't even on line when I started), I've always used the
following reference. No one ever pointed out RFC 20 to me...

 ANSI, USA Standard Code for Information Interchange, X3.4,
American National Standards Institute: New York, 1968.

Thanks,
Donald
=
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e...@gmail.com


On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:03 AM, t.petch daedu...@btconnect.com wrote:
 I think this a valuable contribution to the work of the IETF and should become
 an RFC.

 I wondered if there should be a reference for US-ASCII (such as RFC0020) but 
 on
 balance I think not; in the context of this I-D, likely different people will 
 be
 using it to mean different character sets:-(

 Tom Petch


 - Original Message -
 From: The IESG iesg-secret...@ietf.org
 To: IETF-Announce ietf-annou...@ietf.org
 Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:40 AM
 Subject: Last Call: draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp-11.txt (Transmission
 ofSyslog Messages over TCP) to Informational RFC



 The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
 the following document:
 - 'Transmission of Syslog Messages over TCP'
   draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp-11.txt as an Informational RFC

 The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
 final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
 ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2011-12-07. Exceptionally, comments may be
 sent to i...@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
 beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

 Abstract


    There have been many implementations and deployments of legacy syslog
    over TCP for many years.  That protocol has evolved without being
    standardized and has proven to be quite interoperable in practice.
    The aim of this specification is to explain how TCP has been used as
    a transport for syslog messages.




 The file can be obtained via
 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp/

 IESG discussion can be tracked via
 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerhards-syslog-plain-tcp/


 No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.


 ___
 IETF-Announce mailing list
 ietf-annou...@ietf.org
 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce



 ___
 Ietf mailing list
 Ietf@ietf.org
 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Re: Last Call: draft-yevstifeyev-disclosure-relation-00.txt (The 'disclosure' Link Relation Type) to Informational RFC

2011-12-13 Thread Mykyta Yevstifeyev (М. Євстіфеєв)

11.12.2011 22:05, Julian Reschke wrote:

Hi there,


Hi Julian,



feedback below:

1. Introduction


   RFC 5988 [RFC5988] defined a way of indicating relationships between
   resources on the Web.  This document specifies a new type of such
   relationship - 'disclosure' Link Relation Type.  It designates a list
   of patent disclosures or a particular patent disclosure itself made
   with respect to material for which such relation is specified.

s/-/- the/?


Will fix.



   Active use of 'disclosure' relation type has been identified.  The
   current version of W3C Publication Rules [W3C-PUBRULES], Bullet 36 of
   Section 5, defines that each W3C document must have the boilerplate
   referring to the page where one may find patent disclosures made with
   regard to such document.  As W3C Publication Rules are applied to
   many documents, that might be under different patent policies, a
   number of variants of the mentioned boilerplate exist.  However, the
   phrase W3C maintains a public list of any patent disclosures made in
   connection with the deliverables of the group; that page also
   includes instructions for disclosing a patent. can be found in each
   of these variants.  Publication Rules specify that, in the source
   code, it must look like:

 W3C maintains a a rel=disclosure href=...public list of any
 patent disclosures/a made in connection with the deliverables of
 the group; that page also includes instructions for disclosing a
 patent.

Maybe it's worth pointing out that this does not apply as verbatim 
instruction, but as HTML example.


I have that - in source code.  Maybe I should add in HTML source code?

It would be good to confirm with the W3C that this actually is a 
requirement and not only a suggestion (cc'ing the author of PUBRULES).


And I have this as well, as I've introduced this extract with must look 
like.




   Such provisions existed in previous versions of Publication Rules as
   well, so such source text is often found in different W3C documents
   that predated publication of RFC 5988 significantly.  However,
   'disclosure' relation type has not been mentioned in RFC 5988 when
   creating the registry for relation types; nor was it registered
   separately.

I think the paragraph above is misleading. It was not the point of RFC 
5988 to define all current link relations (it *did* add existing HTML4 
relations and Atom relations to the new registry but that's a separate 
thing).


This may be read as if RFC 5988 is to determine all the rel types that 
were used at the time of its writing, but I don't think the paragraph 
directly implies this.  I mean that it hasn't been registered either 
centralized (in RFC 5988) or separately here.





2. 'disclosure' Link Relation Type

   Whenever the 'disclosure' relation is defined, the target IRI MUST
   either

   (1) designate a list of patent disclosures, or

   (2) refer to a particular patent disclosure made with respect to the
   material being referenced by context IRI.

I think in both cases the patent disclosure(s) apply to the context, no?


Yes.  I may change to:


   Whenever the 'disclosure' relation is defined, the target IRI MUST
   either

   (1) designate a list of patent disclosures, or

   (2) refer to a particular patent disclosure

   made with respect to the material being referenced by context IRI.


to improve readability.




   This section provides several examples of possible use of
   'disclosure' relation type.

   If the page http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/ contains a list of
   patent disclosures made with respect to the specification found at
http://example.org/specs/meta-spec/spec.html, the latter would have
   the following fragment of HTML source code:

html
 ...
 Please visit
a rel=disclosure href=http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; the
 IPR page/a for the list of patent disclosures made with respect
 to this specification.
 ...
/html

   Or, in the case of Link header field, the HTTP response would contain
   the following header field:

 Link: http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; rel=disclosure;
 title=Patent Disclosures List

   (Please note that the actual header field will not contain the line
   break after 'rel' parameter.)

It could if the second line was indented; maybe adjust the example?


I have:


 Link: http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; rel=disclosure;
 title=Patent Disclosures List


both lines are indented with 5 Courier white spaces, and so I think my 
explanation in parentheses is correct.






Appendix A. Acknowledgments


   Thanks to Bjoern Hoehrmann for noticing that 'disclosure' relation is
   not properly specified and, correspondingly, initiating this work.
   The author would also like to acknowledge the contributions of TBD
   to this document.

Who's this TBD guy? :-)


You probably :-).

Mykyta Yevstifeyev



Best regards, Julian
___
Ietf mailing list

Re: Last Call: draft-yevstifeyev-disclosure-relation-00.txt (The 'disclosure' Link Relation Type) to Informational RFC

2011-12-13 Thread Mykyta Yevstifeyev (М. Євстіфеєв)

11.12.2011 22:14, Julian Reschke wrote:

On 2011-12-11 21:05, Julian Reschke wrote:

Hi there,

feedback below:
...


Forgot one more thing. The registry already contains the copyright 
link relation; maybe it would be good to explain who these are different.


This is certainly what I should do.

Thanks for feedback!

Mykyta Yevstifeyev



Best regards, Julian
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf



___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Re: Last Call: draft-yevstifeyev-disclosure-relation-00.txt (The 'disclosure' Link Relation Type) to Informational RFC

2011-12-13 Thread Julian Reschke

On 2011-12-13 20:07, Mykyta Yevstifeyev (М. Євстіфеєв) wrote:

...

Maybe it's worth pointing out that this does not apply as verbatim
instruction, but as HTML example.


I have that - in source code. Maybe I should add in HTML source code?


The latter sounds good.


It would be good to confirm with the W3C that this actually is a
requirement and not only a suggestion (cc'ing the author of PUBRULES).


And I have this as well, as I've introduced this extract with must look
like.


I'd like to see this confirmed by the W3C.


Such provisions existed in previous versions of Publication Rules as
well, so such source text is often found in different W3C documents
that predated publication of RFC 5988 significantly. However,
'disclosure' relation type has not been mentioned in RFC 5988 when
creating the registry for relation types; nor was it registered
separately.

I think the paragraph above is misleading. It was not the point of RFC
5988 to define all current link relations (it *did* add existing HTML4
relations and Atom relations to the new registry but that's a separate
thing).


This may be read as if RFC 5988 is to determine all the rel types that
were used at the time of its writing, but I don't think the paragraph
directly implies this. I mean that it hasn't been registered either
centralized (in RFC 5988) or separately here.


Well, it doesn't say anything interesting, and might confuse people to 
think this was an oversight in 5988. Just drop it.



2. 'disclosure' Link Relation Type

Whenever the 'disclosure' relation is defined, the target IRI MUST
either

(1) designate a list of patent disclosures, or

(2) refer to a particular patent disclosure made with respect to the
material being referenced by context IRI.

I think in both cases the patent disclosure(s) apply to the context, no?


Yes. I may change to:


Whenever the 'disclosure' relation is defined, the target IRI MUST
either

(1) designate a list of patent disclosures, or

(2) refer to a particular patent disclosure

made with respect to the material being referenced by context IRI.


to improve readability.


OK.


This section provides several examples of possible use of
'disclosure' relation type.

If the page http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/ contains a list of
patent disclosures made with respect to the specification found at
http://example.org/specs/meta-spec/spec.html, the latter would have
the following fragment of HTML source code:

html
...
Please visit
a rel=disclosure href=http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; the
IPR page/a for the list of patent disclosures made with respect
to this specification.
...
/html

Or, in the case of Link header field, the HTTP response would contain
the following header field:

Link: http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; rel=disclosure;
title=Patent Disclosures List

(Please note that the actual header field will not contain the line
break after 'rel' parameter.)

It could if the second line was indented; maybe adjust the example?


I have:


Link: http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; rel=disclosure;
title=Patent Disclosures List


both lines are indented with 5 Courier white spaces, and so I think my
explanation in parentheses is correct.


Well, HTTP header fields start at column 0 in a message.

Of course you can indent your examples, but my point was that if you 
indent the second line *more*, it would be valid. Like this:


 Link: http://example.org/ipr/meta-spec/; rel=disclosure;
   title=Patent Disclosures List


...


Best regards, Julian
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Re: Last Call: draft-yevstifeyev-disclosure-relation-00.txt (The 'disclosure' Link Relation Type) to Informational RFC

2011-12-13 Thread SM

At 11:07 13-12-2011, Mykyta Yevstifeyev wrote:
This may be read as if RFC 5988 is to determine all the rel types 
that were used at the time of its writing, but I don't think the 
paragraph directly implies this.  I mean that it hasn't been 
registered either centralized (in RFC 5988) or separately here.


In the Introduction Section, the following sentence could be dropped:

  However, 'disclosure' relation type has not been mentioned in RFC 5988
   when creating the registry for relation types; nor was it registered
   separately.

The last paragraph of that section explains what the document is about.

I suggest an editorial change in Section 2:

  Whenever the 'disclosure' relation is defined, the target IRI
   [RFC5998] MUST either

Quoting the example in Section 3:

  The following are the patent disclosures known at present made
 with respect to this specification:
 ula rel=disclosure href=http://patent.gov/8546987;
 U.S. Patent No. 8546987/a/ul
 ula rel=disclosure href=http://ipr.su/pat/98745-6;
 U.S.S.R. Patent No. 98745-6/a/ul
 ula rel=disclosure href=ftp://ftp.legal.va/a/patent3.pdf;
 Vatical City State Patent No. 3/a/ul

If the IETF takes the security of the Vatican City seriously (there's 
a typo in the example), I suggest adding a .example at the end of 
the domain names.


Regards,
-sm 


___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Last Call: draft-daboo-webdav-sync-06.txt (Collection Synchronization for WebDAV) to Proposed Standard

2011-12-13 Thread Julian Reschke

On 2010-06-08 09:14, Julian Reschke wrote:

On 07.06.2010 17:11, Werner Donné wrote:

Hi,

I don't see why Depth:infinity should be ruled out from the start. You
can let the server decide if the performance penalty is too high or
not. A server with a relational system underneath it, for example, can
do this with one query.

I don't agree with the bubble up principle. A collection changes
when its member set changes. Changing a resource that is referred to
by one of the members doesn't affect the collection, whether that
resource is a collection or not. I think the bubble up principal is
not consistent with the getlastmodified property. It is also not
needed if Depth:infinity is supported.

Best regards,

Werner.


Agreed.

In particular: defining a report works by defining it for Depth: 0. The
semantics for Depth: 1 and Depth: infinity follow by the definition in
RFC 3253.

It's probably *really* time to pull the definition of REPORT out of RFC
3253 and place it into a separate spec, including more rationale,
recommendations for defining new reports, and examples.

Best regards, Julian


It seems to me that this issue was never addressed.

As defined right now, the way REPORT is used doesn't seem to be 
compatible with the definition of REPORT in RFC 3253, and the definition 
of the Depth: header field in RFC 4918.


Unless I'm missing something, this will be a problem for any 
implementation that tries to implement the sync report based on a 
generic WebDAV reporting framework.


Best regards, Julian
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Re: Last Call: draft-daboo-webdav-sync-06.txt (Collection Synchronization for WebDAV) to Proposed Standard

2011-12-13 Thread Julian Reschke

On 2011-12-02 00:41, The IESG wrote:

...


Abstract

   This specification defines an extension to WebDAV that allows
   efficient synchronization of the contents of a WebDAV collection.

- Expand acronyms on first use.

   Typically, the first time a client connects to the server it will
   need to be informed of the entire state of the collection (i.e., a
   full list of all member URIs that are currently in the collection).
   That is done by the client sending an empty token value to the
   server.  This indicates to the server that a full listing is
   required.

I think it would be more consistent with other specs not to send an 
empty token, but to send *no* token.


   As an alternative, the client might choose to do its first
   synchronization using some other mechanism on the collection (e.g.
   some other form of batch resource information retrieval such as
   PROPFIND, SEARCH [RFC5323] , or specialized REPORTs such as those
   defined in CalDAV [RFC4791] and CardDAV [I-D.ietf-vcarddav-carddav])

The CardDAV reference will need to be updated...

   To implement the behavior for this report a server needs to keep
   track of changes to any member URIs and their mapped resources in a
   collection (as defined in Section 3 of [RFC4918]).  This includes

Actually, RFC 4918 defines member URL; maybe worth adjusting or 
pointing out it's the same.



   Marshalling:

  The request URI MUST identify a collection.  The request body MUST
  be a DAV:sync-collection XML element (see Section 6.1), which MUST
  contain one DAV:sync-token XML element, and one DAV:prop XML
  element, and MAY contain a DAV:limit XML element.

  The request MUST include a Depth header with a value of 1 or
  infinity.

This report definition is in conflict with the definition of the REPORT 
method in RFC 3253 
(http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc3253.html#rfc.section.3.6).


Essentially, a report is applied to just the request URI (depth: 0 or no 
depth header field), the request URI and it's internal members (1) or 
all descendants (infinity).


A report definition should define the response for the case of Depth: 0. 
The format for the other cases follows directly from RFC 3253:


If a Depth request header is included, the response MUST be a 207 
Multi-Status. The request MUST be applied separately to the collection 
itself and to all members of the collection that satisfy the Depth 
value. The DAV:prop element of a DAV:response for a given resource MUST 
contain the requested report for that resource.


(Note that I have complained about this a long time ago, 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-dist-auth/2007JulSep/0041.html).


To fix this, the report would need to define Depth: 0 processing on a 
collection to mean the changes just on that collection (which means 
membership changes, but not changes to member resources), and the other 
modes would then follow based on RFC 3253.


It doesn't seem to be possible to make this change in a way that doesn't 
break existing implementations, as RFC 3253 requires the report response 
format to be well-formed XML (thus only one root element), and that 
format then to be used *inside* DAV:multistatus/DAV:reponse/../DAV:prop.


Optimally, this should be fixed. If this can't be fixed I'd argue that 
the spec should be published as Informational, and that it should 
include an explanation of the incompatibilty (essentially requiring 
servers to special-case this report in case they already use a generic 
WebDAV REPORT framework).


  The response body for a successful request MUST be a DAV:
  multistatus XML element, which MUST contain one DAV:sync-token

Maybe s/one/a single/

  ...

   Preconditions:

  (DAV:valid-sync-token): The DAV:sync-token element value MUST be a
  valid token previously returned by the server.  A token can become
  invalid as the result of being out of date (out of the range of
  change history maintained by the server), or for other reasons
  (e.g. collection deleted, then recreated, access control changes,
  etc...).

Does the sync-token need to originate from the same collection?


3.3.  Depth behavior

   Servers MUST support both Depth:1 and Depth:infinity behavior with
   the DAV:sync-collection report.  Clients MUST include either a
   Depth:1 or Depth:infinity request header with the DAV:sync-collection
   report.

See above; this contradicts the base definition of REPORT.

   In the case where a mapping between a member URI and the target
   collection was removed, then a new mapping with the same URI created,
   the member URI MUST be reported as changed and MUST NOT be reported
   as removed.

The client could tell that this happened if the DAV:resourceid property 
was included.


   A member URI MUST be reported as changed if its mapped resource's
   entity tag value (defined in Section 3.11 of [RFC2616]) has changed
   since the request sync-token was generated.

It should be 

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-sidr-rpki-rtr-19.txt (The RPKI/Router Protocol) to Proposed Standard

2011-12-13 Thread Shane Amante
[Resending to ietf@ietf.org]

I am curious why an IETF WG (SIDR) has endorsed a wholly new protocol through 
which to configure policy information on routers (as proposed in 
draft-ietf-sidr-rpki-rtr), particularly when the IETF already has existing 
standards to do so, namely: NETCONF [RFC4741]  YANG [RFC6020]?  In addition, 
given that NETCONF + YANG were designed for extensibility, they would allow 
operators to take it upon themselves, if they wish, to easily enrich and/or 
extend RPKI-validated data before it is sent from an RPKI cache to routers, 
(compared to a binary protocol like RPKI-RTR).  I don't see any discussion in 
draft-ietf-sidr-rpki-rtr as to whether: a) consideration was given to develop a 
YANG model, for validated RPKI data, which then would use NETCONF to securely 
transport that from an RPKI cache to the router; and, b) if it was considered, 
what were the reasons that approach was not pursued.

In the short-term, I am concerned that, from an architectural point-of-view, 
the IETF has not chosen to re-use the existing set of very successful 
configuration protocols, namely NETCONF  YANG, for the task of configuring 
validated policy information from the RPKI to/within routers.  This could not 
only cause confusion in the industry, but also lead to additional operational 
costs to operators who would have to maintain two protocols for configuring 
policy on their network: RPKI-RTR and, separately, NETCONF/YANG, particularly 
when those same operators already have to use NETCONF/YANG for other router 
configuration tasks anyway.  Furthermore, NETCONF is in shipping  deployed 
implementations today vs. RPKI-RTR which is likely still several years in the 
future before it starts shipping in GA SW releases, not including the time it 
will take to qualify it before it sees actual network deployment.

Longer term, development of a new configuration protocol, (namely RPKI-RTR), 
likely has architectural implications given the discussion that occurred at 
IETF 82 in the SDN informational-gathering session, held on Thursday 
afternoon.  Although it is a too early to tell where the discussions at that 
SDN meeting will ultimately lead to, there did seem to be a significant amount 
of interest in the architectural concept of looking at the problem of 
attempting to configure networks using a top-down methodology and, in 
particular, re-using those existing IETF protocols, e.g.: NETCONF/YANG, SNMP, 
etc., southbound from an SDN Orchestrator toward various network elements.  As 
such, it may be useful for the IESG and IAB to collaborate on the long-term 
architectural implications and additional complexity that another southbound 
protocol, specifically: RPKI-RTR, could have on future efforts such as those 
discussed in the SDN meeting.

-shane


On Nov 29, 2011, at 3:51 PM, The IESG wrote:
 The IESG has received a request from the Secure Inter-Domain Routing WG
 (sidr) to consider the following document:
 - 'The RPKI/Router Protocol'
  draft-ietf-sidr-rpki-rtr-19.txt as a Proposed Standard
 
 The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
 final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
 ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2011-12-13. Exceptionally, comments may be
 sent to i...@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
 beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
 
 Abstract
 
 
   In order to formally validate the origin ASs of BGP announcements,
   routers need a simple but reliable mechanism to receive RPKI
   [I-D.ietf-sidr-arch] prefix origin data from a trusted cache.  This
   document describes a protocol to deliver validated prefix origin data
   to routers.
 
 
 
 
 
 The file can be obtained via
 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sidr-rpki-rtr/
 
 IESG discussion can be tracked via
 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sidr-rpki-rtr/
 
 
 No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
 
 
 ___
 IETF-Announce mailing list
 ietf-annou...@ietf.org
 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


Fwd: [IP] EFF calls for signatures from Internet Engineers against censorship

2011-12-13 Thread Eggert, Lars


Begin forwarded message:

 From: Dave Farber d...@farber.net
 Subject: [IP] EFF calls for signatures from Internet Engineers against 
 censorship
 Date: December 14, 2011 4:12:20 GMT+02:00
 To: ip i...@listbox.com
 Reply-To: d...@farber.net
 
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Peter Eckersley
 Date: Tuesday, December 13, 2011
 Subject: EFF call for signatures from Internet Engineers against censorship
 To: David Farber d...@farber.net
 
 
 (For the IP list)
 
 Last year, EFF organized an open letter against Internet censorship
 legislation being considered by the US Senate
 (https://eff.org/deeplinks/2010/09/open-letter).  Along with other activists
 efforts, we successfully delayed that proposal, but need to update the
 letter
 for two bills, SOPA and PIPA, that are close to passing through US Congress
 now.
 
 If you would like to sign, please email me at p...@eff.org, with a one-line
 summary of what part of the Internet you helped to helped to design,
 implement, debug or run.
 
 We need signatures by 8am GMT on Thursday (midnight Wednesday US Pacific,
 3am
 US Eastern).  Also feel free to forward this to colleagues who played a role
 in designing and building the network.
 
 The updated letter's text is below:
 
 We, the undersigned, have played various parts in building a network called
 the Internet. We wrote and debugged the software; we defined the standards
 and protocols that talk over that network. Many of us invented parts of it.
 We're just a little proud of the social and economic benefits that our
 project, the Internet, has brought with it.
 
 Last year, many of us wrote to you and your colleagues to warn about the
 proposed COICA copyright and censorship legislation.  Today, we are
 writing again to reiterate our concerns about the SOPA and PIPA derivatives
 of last year's bill, that are under consideration in the House and Senate.
 In many respects, these proposals are worse than the one we were alarmed to
 read last year.
 
 If enacted, either of these bills will create an environment of tremendous
 fear and uncertainty for technological innovation, and seriously harm the
 credibility of the United States in its role as a steward of key Internet
 infrastructure. Regardless of recent amendments to SOPA, both bills will
 risk fragmenting the Internet's global domain name system (DNS) and have
 other capricious technical consequences.  In exchange for this, such
 legislation would engender censorship that will simultaneously be
 circumvented by deliberate infringers while hampering innocent parties'
 right and ability to communicate and express themselves online.
 
 All censorship schemes impact speech beyond the category they were intended
 to restrict, but these bills are particularly egregious in that regard
 because they cause entire domains to vanish from the Web, not just
 infringing pages or files.  Worse, an incredible range of useful,
 law-abiding sites can be blacklisted under these proposals.  In fact, it
 seems that this has already begun to happen under the nascent DHS/ICE
 seizures program.
 
 Censorship of Internet infrastructure will inevitably cause network errors
 and security problems.  This is true in China, Iran and other countries
 that
 censor the network today; it will be just as true of American censorship.
 It is also true regardless of whether censorship is implemented via the
 DNS,
 proxies, firewalls, or any other method.  Types of network errors and
 insecurity that we wrestle with today will become more widespread, and will
 affect sites other than those blacklisted by the American government.
 
 The current bills -- SOPA explicitly and PIPA implicitly -- also threaten
 engineers who build Internet systems or offer services that are not readily
 and automatically compliant with censorship actions by the U.S. government.
 When we designed the Internet the first time, our priorities were
 reliability, robustness and minimizing central points of failure or
 control.
 We are alarmed that Congress is so close to mandating censorship-compliance
 as a design requirement for new Internet innovations.  This can only damage
 the security of the network, and give authoritarian governments more power
 over what their citizens can read and publish.
 
 The US government has regularly claimed that it supports a free and open
 Internet, both domestically and abroad.  We cannot have a free and open
 Internet unless its naming and routing systems sit above the political
 concerns and objectives of any one government or industry. To date, the
 leading role the US has played in this infrastructure has been fairly
 uncontroversial because America is seen as a trustworthy arbiter and a
 neutral bastion of free expression. If the US begins to use its
 central in the network for censorship that advances its political and
 economic agenda, the consequences will be far-reaching and destructive.
 
 Senators, Congressmen, we believe the Internet is too important and too