RE: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ?
Mike and Jim I really doubt anyone hear cares about either of your opinions on the matter. Can you please take this off-line and stop filling my inbox with this useless crap. Thanks -Original Message- From: Michael Hammer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:29 AM To: Jim Fleming Cc: 'The IETF' Subject: Re: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ? Jim, I quickly read the web sites you cited and it is about stealing trade secrets. I didn't see any reference to federal employees. Lacking a more specific citation, I have to conclude that you are not a lawyer and probably clueless about US Law. Considering I have been to telecom standards meetings with the very people that created and enforce these laws, with no deception about who they are or what they were doing, your comments appear to be nonsense. Mike At 08:58 AM 3/27/2003 -0600, Jim Fleming wrote: >http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/ipr-wg/current/msg01004.htm l >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Perens) >"I just spent two years at W3C solving this very problem. At the table >were many of the same folks on this WG, except there they didn't hide >the fact that they were representing their employers." > > >You may be missing two key points... > >1. Many of the I* society participants are funded directly or indirectly >by the U.S. Government. > >2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded people to work >on telecommunication protocols. > >That forces people to lie. Once they learn to lie, it becomes a big game. >They then move >that game to their non-profit, corporate boards, where they are >"Directors" but tell people >that they stand in the hallway at meetings, and therefore are not >involved. In summary, they >(the I* society liars) have spent years gaming every U.S. funded system. >You are their prey. > > >Jim Fleming >http://www.IPv8.info
Re: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ?
Jim, I quickly read the web sites you cited and it is about stealing trade secrets. I didn't see any reference to federal employees. Lacking a more specific citation, I have to conclude that you are not a lawyer and probably clueless about US Law. Considering I have been to telecom standards meetings with the very people that created and enforce these laws, with no deception about who they are or what they were doing, your comments appear to be nonsense. Mike At 08:58 AM 3/27/2003 -0600, Jim Fleming wrote: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/ipr-wg/current/msg01004.html From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Perens) "I just spent two years at W3C solving this very problem. At the table were many of the same folks on this WG, except there they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers." You may be missing two key points... 1. Many of the I* society participants are funded directly or indirectly by the U.S. Government. 2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded people to work on telecommunication protocols. That forces people to lie. Once they learn to lie, it becomes a big game. They then move that game to their non-profit, corporate boards, where they are "Directors" but tell people that they stand in the hallway at meetings, and therefore are not involved. In summary, they (the I* society liars) have spent years gaming every U.S. funded system. You are their prey. Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info
RE: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ?
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Jim > Fleming > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:59 AM > To: 'The IETF' > Subject: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were > representing their > employers..." ? > Jim, Why is it against federal law for federally funded people to work on telecom protocols? This is news to me and I have been fairly active in various protocol forums for many years. When I represented govt. interests, this federal affiliation has never been kept secret and I have spoken about it many times. What law are you referring to? As I remember it, when the IETF was started, most of the people were federally financed including the the IAB chair, Phil Gross. In view of the fact that the DOD financed the Internet at a time when it was not economically competitive (early 80's) and has been a leading "early adopter" whose business financed a lot of development, meeting the DOD peculiar requirements was not that unreasonable. > > You may be missing two key points... > > 1. Many of the I* society participants are funded directly > or indirectly by the U.S. Government. > > 2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded > people to work on telecommunication protocols. > > That forces people to lie. Once they learn to lie, it > becomes a big game. They then move > that game to their non-profit, corporate boards, where they > are "Directors" but tell people > that they stand in the hallway at meetings, and therefore > are not involved. In summary, they > (the I* society liars) have spent years gaming every U.S. > funded system. You are their prey. I have no idea what this is referring to. When I represented the DOD, they would have been quite dissatisfied if I has not been active in the meetings. Steve Silverman > > > Jim Fleming > http://www.IPv8.info > > > >
Re: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ?
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jim Fleming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: Re: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ? > Okay, Jim. I'll bite. ... Can you please identify the specific laws > that lead you to this assertion? It is quite a surprize to me who > has spent a couple of decades as a private sector representative > attempting to collaborate with very visible US Governement > employees in the specification telecommunications protocols. > > On 27 Mar 2003, at 8:58, Jim Fleming wrote: > > 2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded people > > to work on telecommunication protocols. > > > Greg Ratta, Vice-Chairman, T1S1: Services, Architectures and Signaling > Lucent Technologies > Tel: +1 732 332 5174, Fax: +1 732 949 1196, [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Are you a U.S. Citizen ? ...keep in mind that U.S. Citizens are restricted by Federal Law from certain conversations... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Foreign+Espionage+Act 18 USC 90 - Economic Espionage Act of 1996 ... PROTECTION OF TRADE SECRETS Cite as the "Economic Espionage Act of 1996 ... Economic espionage. ... knowing that the offense will benefit any foreign government, foreign ... www.tscm.com/USC18_90.html NCIX - Economic Espionage Act of 1996 This Act may be cited as the "Economic Espionage Act of 1996.". ... Economic Espionage. ... or knowing that the offense will benefit any foreign government, foreign ... www.ncix.gov/pubs/online/eea_96.htm First Foreign Economic Espionage Indictment; Defendants Steal ... ... also charges a violation of The Economic Espionage Act against Okamoto ... with transporting, transmitting and transferring in interstate and foreign commerce, DNA ... www.cybercrime.gov/Okamoto_SerizawaIndict.htm Economic Espionage Act of 1996 -- Protection of Trade Secrets -- ... ... This Act may be cited as the "Economic Espionage Act of 1996.". ... Economic Espionage. ... or knowing that the offense will benefit any foreign government, foreign ... www.aurorawdc.com/espact96.htm [ncdnhc-discuss] Fw: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the ... ... December 13, 2001 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > http://www.google.com/search?q=foreign+espionage+act > > THE ECONOMIC ... www.icann-ncc.org/pipermail/discuss/ 2001-December/001018.html Espionage Law ... copied from Annual Report to Congress on Foreign Economic Collection and Industrial Espionage, June 1997, and brochure The Economic Espionage Act of 1996: A ... rf-web.tamu.edu/security/SECGUIDE/T1threat/Legal.htm THE ECONOMIC ESPIONAGE ACT OF 1996: THE THEFT OF TRADE SECRETS IS ... ... goods, wares or merchandise" were transported in "interstate or foreign commerce" and ... of the primary reasons for enacting the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 ... my.execpc.com/~mhallign/crime.html
Re: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ?
Okay, Jim. I'll bite. ... Can you please identify the specific laws that lead you to this assertion? It is quite a surprize to me who has spent a couple of decades as a private sector representative attempting to collaborate with very visible US Governement employees in the specification telecommunications protocols. On 27 Mar 2003, at 8:58, Jim Fleming wrote: > 2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded people > to work on telecommunication protocols. Greg Ratta, Vice-Chairman, T1S1: Services, Architectures and Signaling Lucent Technologies Tel: +1 732 332 5174, Fax: +1 732 949 1196, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ?
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/ipr-wg/current/msg01004.html From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Perens) "I just spent two years at W3C solving this very problem. At the table were many of the same folks on this WG, except there they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers." You may be missing two key points... 1. Many of the I* society participants are funded directly or indirectly by the U.S. Government. 2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded people to work on telecommunication protocols. That forces people to lie. Once they learn to lie, it becomes a big game. They then move that game to their non-profit, corporate boards, where they are "Directors" but tell people that they stand in the hallway at meetings, and therefore are not involved. In summary, they (the I* society liars) have spent years gaming every U.S. funded system. You are their prey. Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info
