Re: Gender diversity in engineering
On May 8, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Yaakov Stein wrote: >> Around 30%-40%. I don't have hard numbers, >> but I have a feeling that it has gone down a bit in the last 10 years. > > Yoav, > > Your feelings are quite accurate as to the range, > but less so regarding the trend. > According to a recent study, 35.6% of high-tech employees in Israel are women, > and this percentage has been relatively stable for the past 10 years. > > Women make up 47.5% of all employees with academic credentials (as of 2010) > in all sectors, > so high-tech is actually comparatively under-represented. > On the other hand, only 32.9% of managerial positions (in all sectors) > are occupied by women. I can believe that. It could be specific to Check Point. OTOH there are those companies with departments where only women work. That could be keeping the balance. Yoav
RE: Gender diversity in engineering
> Around 30%-40%. I don't have hard numbers, > but I have a feeling that it has gone down a bit in the last 10 years. Yoav, Your feelings are quite accurate as to the range, but less so regarding the trend. According to a recent study, 35.6% of high-tech employees in Israel are women, and this percentage has been relatively stable for the past 10 years. Women make up 47.5% of all employees with academic credentials (as of 2010) in all sectors, so high-tech is actually comparatively under-represented. On the other hand, only 32.9% of managerial positions (in all sectors) are occupied by women. Y(J)S
Re: Gender diversity in engineering
On May 4, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: >> From: Allison Mankin [allison.man...@gmail.com] >> >> I'd be interested to learn of studies of the CS workforce outside the >> US. Are there recruitment and attrition problems everywhere? > > I've seen reports in the popular press that the fraction of women > entering software is higher in many Asian countries than in the US, so > presumably there is solid information to that extent. > > I've heard anecdotes that the fraction of women in software in Israel > is much higher than in the US. Around 30%-40%. I don't have hard numbers, but I have a feeling that it has gone down a bit in the last 10 years. One of my tasks is to give a monthly "VPN basics" talk to new recruits, and women seem to be about 1 in 4. This could be specific to my company, though. Yoav
RE: Gender diversity in engineering
> From: Allison Mankin [allison.man...@gmail.com] > > I'd be interested to learn of studies of the CS workforce outside the > US. Are there recruitment and attrition problems everywhere? I've seen reports in the popular press that the fraction of women entering software is higher in many Asian countries than in the US, so presumably there is solid information to that extent. I've heard anecdotes that the fraction of women in software in Israel is much higher than in the US. Dale
Re: Gender diversity in engineering
A good URL for the NSF statistics: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/ Also, there's extensive information and analysis about the educational pipeline in the US (for all groups, and including K12) in the 2010 American Association of University Women report "Why So Few?" www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/whysofew.pdf I'd be interested to learn of studies of the CS workforce outside the US. Are there recruitment and attrition problems everywhere? Allison On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:20 AM, Eric Burger wrote: > > NSF has a ton of information on this for the U.S. population. I'm too lazy > right now to dig it up, but it is there. > > On May 1, 2012, at 4:40 PM, James M. Polk wrote: > > > There have been some good numbers floated on recent threads, but at least > > for me, they aren't enough to gain a complete (or nearly complete) picture > > of the issue. > > > > Having studied statistics, we need to know a starting point, and look for > > the reductions (or increases) from that point forward. Starting in high > > school is not sufficiently refined enough, as there are a lot that take > > advanced math (personally I'd start with trig - because that kicked my ass > > - but rarely is it its own class, so let's start with calculus 1) that > > don't go into engineering. Thus, high school is probably not a good place > > to measure from. Therefore, it needs to be college. > > > > We need to know > > > > % of class (based on year started) that is female in engineering > > (do we want to start with electrical and CS to > > be more applicable to our situation?) > > > > We'll call that percent 'X' > > > > then > > > > %X of drops from engineering (BS) (or just elec/CS?) over the college years > > before graduation? > > > > then > > > > %X that enter workforce after BS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the > > engineering field? > > > > then > > > > %X that start graduate school (MS) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > > > %X that receive MS degree in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > > > %X that enter workforce after MS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the > > engineering field? > > > > then > > > > %X that start doctoral school (PhD.) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > > > %X that achieve PhD. in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > > > then > > > > %X that enter workforce after PhD in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into > > the engineering field? > > > > This will likely track those that are entering the engineering workforce, > > and with what level of education. From that point in the analysis - we can > > attempt to track at what point there are further drops out of the > > engineering workforce by women (i.e., after how many years). Or is it as > > simple as problems after childbirth to reenter the workforce (for whatever > > reason). > > > > As an example, if there is a significant difference from those that drop > > out after their BS from those that drop out MS, then maybe something should > > be done to encourage women to stay for the MS. > > > > comments or questions? > > > > James > > >
Re: Gender diversity in engineering
NSF has a ton of information on this for the U.S. population. I'm too lazy right now to dig it up, but it is there. On May 1, 2012, at 4:40 PM, James M. Polk wrote: > There have been some good numbers floated on recent threads, but at least for > me, they aren't enough to gain a complete (or nearly complete) picture of the > issue. > > Having studied statistics, we need to know a starting point, and look for the > reductions (or increases) from that point forward. Starting in high school is > not sufficiently refined enough, as there are a lot that take advanced math > (personally I'd start with trig - because that kicked my ass - but rarely is > it its own class, so let's start with calculus 1) that don't go into > engineering. Thus, high school is probably not a good place to measure from. > Therefore, it needs to be college. > > We need to know > > % of class (based on year started) that is female in engineering > (do we want to start with electrical and CS to >be more applicable to our situation?) > > We'll call that percent 'X' > > then > > %X of drops from engineering (BS) (or just elec/CS?) over the college years > before graduation? > > then > > %X that enter workforce after BS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the > engineering field? > > then > > %X that start graduate school (MS) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > %X that receive MS degree in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > %X that enter workforce after MS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the > engineering field? > > then > > %X that start doctoral school (PhD.) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > %X that achieve PhD. in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > then > > %X that enter workforce after PhD in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the > engineering field? > > This will likely track those that are entering the engineering workforce, and > with what level of education. From that point in the analysis - we can > attempt to track at what point there are further drops out of the engineering > workforce by women (i.e., after how many years). Or is it as simple as > problems after childbirth to reenter the workforce (for whatever reason). > > As an example, if there is a significant difference from those that drop out > after their BS from those that drop out MS, then maybe something should be > done to encourage women to stay for the MS. > > comments or questions? > > James >
Re: Gender diversity in engineering
On May 1, 2012 4:08 PM, "Janet P Gunn" wrote: > > But that leaves out all of us that started off in a different (technical) field (Math and OR in my case) and ended up here.. > Furthermore, is rigorous academic STEM education highly correlated with whatever it is you are trying to measure ? CB > Janet > > This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. > > > > From:"James M. Polk" > To:IETF-Discussion list > Date: 05/01/2012 04:40 PM > Subject:Gender diversity in engineering > Sent by:ietf-boun...@ietf.org > > > > > There have been some good numbers floated on recent threads, but at > least for me, they aren't enough to gain a complete (or nearly > complete) picture of the issue. > > Having studied statistics, we need to know a starting point, and look > for the reductions (or increases) from that point forward. Starting > in high school is not sufficiently refined enough, as there are a lot > that take advanced math (personally I'd start with trig - because > that kicked my ass - but rarely is it its own class, so let's start > with calculus 1) that don't go into engineering. Thus, high school is > probably not a good place to measure from. Therefore, it needs to be college. > > We need to know > > % of class (based on year started) that is female in engineering >(do we want to start with electrical and CS to > be more applicable to our situation?) > > We'll call that percent 'X' > > then > > %X of drops from engineering (BS) (or just elec/CS?) over the college > years before graduation? > > then > > %X that enter workforce after BS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) > into the engineering field? > > then > > %X that start graduate school (MS) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > %X that receive MS degree in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > %X that enter workforce after MS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) > into the engineering field? > > then > > %X that start doctoral school (PhD.) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > %X that achieve PhD. in engineering (or just elec/CS)? > > then > > %X that enter workforce after PhD in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) > into the engineering field? > > This will likely track those that are entering the engineering > workforce, and with what level of education. From that point in the > analysis - we can attempt to track at what point there are further > drops out of the engineering workforce by women (i.e., after how many > years). Or is it as simple as problems after childbirth to reenter > the workforce (for whatever reason). > > As an example, if there is a significant difference from those that > drop out after their BS from those that drop out MS, then maybe > something should be done to encourage women to stay for the MS. > > comments or questions? > > James > >
Re: Gender diversity in engineering
But that leaves out all of us that started off in a different (technical) field (Math and OR in my case) and ended up here.. Janet This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. From: "James M. Polk" To: IETF-Discussion list Date: 05/01/2012 04:40 PM Subject: Gender diversity in engineering Sent by:ietf-boun...@ietf.org There have been some good numbers floated on recent threads, but at least for me, they aren't enough to gain a complete (or nearly complete) picture of the issue. Having studied statistics, we need to know a starting point, and look for the reductions (or increases) from that point forward. Starting in high school is not sufficiently refined enough, as there are a lot that take advanced math (personally I'd start with trig - because that kicked my ass - but rarely is it its own class, so let's start with calculus 1) that don't go into engineering. Thus, high school is probably not a good place to measure from. Therefore, it needs to be college. We need to know % of class (based on year started) that is female in engineering (do we want to start with electrical and CS to be more applicable to our situation?) We'll call that percent 'X' then %X of drops from engineering (BS) (or just elec/CS?) over the college years before graduation? then %X that enter workforce after BS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the engineering field? then %X that start graduate school (MS) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? %X that receive MS degree in engineering (or just elec/CS)? %X that enter workforce after MS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the engineering field? then %X that start doctoral school (PhD.) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? %X that achieve PhD. in engineering (or just elec/CS)? then %X that enter workforce after PhD in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the engineering field? This will likely track those that are entering the engineering workforce, and with what level of education. From that point in the analysis - we can attempt to track at what point there are further drops out of the engineering workforce by women (i.e., after how many years). Or is it as simple as problems after childbirth to reenter the workforce (for whatever reason). As an example, if there is a significant difference from those that drop out after their BS from those that drop out MS, then maybe something should be done to encourage women to stay for the MS. comments or questions? James
Gender diversity in engineering
There have been some good numbers floated on recent threads, but at least for me, they aren't enough to gain a complete (or nearly complete) picture of the issue. Having studied statistics, we need to know a starting point, and look for the reductions (or increases) from that point forward. Starting in high school is not sufficiently refined enough, as there are a lot that take advanced math (personally I'd start with trig - because that kicked my ass - but rarely is it its own class, so let's start with calculus 1) that don't go into engineering. Thus, high school is probably not a good place to measure from. Therefore, it needs to be college. We need to know % of class (based on year started) that is female in engineering (do we want to start with electrical and CS to be more applicable to our situation?) We'll call that percent 'X' then %X of drops from engineering (BS) (or just elec/CS?) over the college years before graduation? then %X that enter workforce after BS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the engineering field? then %X that start graduate school (MS) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? %X that receive MS degree in engineering (or just elec/CS)? %X that enter workforce after MS in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the engineering field? then %X that start doctoral school (PhD.) in engineering (or just elec/CS)? %X that achieve PhD. in engineering (or just elec/CS)? then %X that enter workforce after PhD in Engineering (or just elec/CS?) into the engineering field? This will likely track those that are entering the engineering workforce, and with what level of education. From that point in the analysis - we can attempt to track at what point there are further drops out of the engineering workforce by women (i.e., after how many years). Or is it as simple as problems after childbirth to reenter the workforce (for whatever reason). As an example, if there is a significant difference from those that drop out after their BS from those that drop out MS, then maybe something should be done to encourage women to stay for the MS. comments or questions? James
