Re: Nimrod is still ugly - was: NATs *ARE* evil!

2000-12-18 Thread V Guruprasad


 If you find a way to select paths in real networks using only virtual data,
 we'd all be interested to hear it.

Try draft-guruprasad-addressless-internet-00.txt, and
the ECUMN'2000 paper on which it was based, at
http://affine.watson.ibm.com/tmp/vinet.pdf

The draft doesn't yet mention the log(N) bounds on the routing complexity,
but I did try to explain that real addresses are obviated at all levels. 
A detailed comparison of addressing and addressless principles is yet to
be made, hopefully soon in the next revision and/or paper.

-p.




Nimrod is still ugly - was: NATs *ARE* evil!

2000-12-15 Thread v guruprasad

 Were we to i) incrementally deploy and start using new globally unique
 namespace(s) [either a single one functioning much as IPv4 addresses
 functioned originaly, or, as many of us think would be wise, two separate
 ones, one to identify entities for end-end communication and another to give
 topologically related names to communication devices], and then ii)
 reinterpret the 32-bit fields as "local forwarding tags", then NAT boxes
 would cease to be an architectural ugliness, and become merely engineering
 ugliness.
 
 "I trust I make myself obscure." (And a tip of the hatly hat to anyone who
 recognizes the source of that quotation... :-)
 
 Noel

Now that we've figured out the first step and admit to the remaining
ugliness, maybe we can take the next... Here goes:

One basic reason Nimrod is still ugly is that it leaves us to deal with real
addresses. The art of doling out virtual addresses and doing virtual-to-real
translation behind the scenes, and quite efficiently at that, has been known
in the OS arena for over three decades. Even PC OS's have it today :)

Isn't it time to graduate to the network analogue?  Yes, it takes a mental
leap - even binary search isn't as simple as linear, let alone Unix to the
DOS-groomed. But if you want performance, scalability and elegance, it's
possible, it's already shown, and it's waiting for the brave new world.
Far more importantly, which point is sorely missed in the Triad and Nimrod
proposals and where the real mental leaps comes, it doesn't require throwing
the v4 (or v6) baby out with the scummy bathwater.

["and still the earth moves"]


-p.




Re: Nimrod is still ugly - was: NATs *ARE* evil!

2000-12-15 Thread J. Noel Chiappa

 From: v guruprasad [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 One basic reason Nimrod is still ugly is that it leaves us to deal with
 real addresses.

If you find a way to select paths in real networks using only virtual data,
we'd all be interested to hear it.

Noel

PS: The issues of i) globally/locally unique addresses (i.e. NAT), and ii)
separation of location and identity, have nothing to do with the selection of
paths. So why you think there's some reason to drag in a scheme that is purely
about path selection is completely beyond me.