Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
just to be clear - I was thinking of porn sites using the HTTP protocol for access. Best so far: Paul Hoffman thinks that the first one was called Adult Action, and probably predated the official Mosaic release. But that search term is too general for the Internet of today (8240 hits sigh...) Thanks to all who responded! Harald --On mandag, januar 13, 2003 10:53:03 +0100 jfcm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 17:03 12/01/03, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: Despite having lived through much recent history, I've forgotten a lot of it I just wonder: does anyone know/remember when the first Web porn site came online? Wondering whether it was before or after the first official release of Mosaic Obviously depends on what you mean on-line. 1. as Dave said there were sex oriented areas on many computers. 2. I suppose the first commercial sex sites were on Minitel. 3. This means that technically they were on-line from the Internet legal perspective when it interconnected the public nets (84). Actually a few Internet private gateways existed before and some Intelmatics tests were probably carried in the USA as early as 1982, with protocol conversion. I would be surprised that no one test connected them from ARPANET. When people tested from abroad, I do not know why, they always did it with a porn site. 4.UK Universities also shared into Prestel and some where on the Internet (you should inquire there. They had a leading data brokering firm that on-line, I Oxford (?) I think). I do not know about Paris University, but we can investigate. jfc
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
By June and July of 1994 people were trying adult http sites. I'm afraid it's not clear how long before this these sites actually existed. I can tell you that there were very few adult sites in 1994. By 1996 the formula and format for such sites was pretty well fixed and that same formula and format is still used on 99% of sites today. Why the creation of the first porn site is a depressing moment I'm not sure. In the first couple years of the web, adult sites financed it's development. In 1997 and 1998 90% of commerce on the web was adult related. Within two years of the first nudie pic being served via http the adult operators had developed workable streaming video. A year later, in 1997, we installed the first live video with audio streaming from a Dallas office. Adult operators also developed technologies such as digital watermarking, the pay per click advertising model, and usable http payment processing gateways long before these technologies were adopted by mainstream companies. One of the biggest things to make the web the commercially attractive was efficient online payment processing. The first http 3rd party payment processing service was started in March of 1995 by my friend Laith Alsarraf. It would be another TWO YEARS before mainstream sites had a comparable online processor. Porn sites filtered: Date: 1994-07-08 18:37:06 PST http://groups.google.com/groups?q=naked+httpstart=60hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8oe=UTF -8as_drrb=bas_mind=1as_minm=1as_miny=1994as_maxd=13as_maxm=7as_maxy=1994 selm=1994Jul8.110718.18031%40umiami.ir.miami.edurnum=69 On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:04:16 +0100, Harald Tveit Alvestrand said: just to be clear - I was thinking of porn sites using the HTTP protocol for access. Best so far: Paul Hoffman thinks that the first one was called Adult Action, and probably predated the official Mosaic release. But that search term is too general for the Internet of today (8240 hits sigh...) Thanks to all who responded! Harald --On mandag, januar 13, 2003 10:53:03 +0100 jfcm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 17:03 12/01/03, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: Despite having lived through much recent history, I've forgotten a lot of it I just wonder: does anyone know/remember when the first Web porn site came online? Wondering whether it was before or after the first official release of Mosaic Obviously depends on what you mean on-line. 1. as Dave said there were sex oriented areas on many computers. 2. I suppose the first commercial sex sites were on Minitel. 3. This means that technically they were on-line from the Internet legal perspective when it interconnected the public nets (84). Actually a few Internet private gateways existed before and some Intelmatics tests were probably carried in the USA as early as 1982, with protocol conversion. I would be surprised that no one test connected them from ARPANET. When people tested from abroad, I do not know why, they always did it with a porn site. 4.UK Universities also shared into Prestel and some where on the Internet (you should inquire there. They had a leading data brokering firm that on-line, I Oxford (?) I think). I do not know about Paris University, but we can investigate. jfc -- ~~~ Ray B. Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.WebmastersGuide.com
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why the creation of the first porn site is a depressing moment I'm not sure. A few years ago I found myself wondering why most commercial websites are so garish, flashy, fragmented, and awkward to navigate. I came to the conclusion that they'd all taken their stylistic lead from the very first commercial websites: the porn sites. Is it not depressing that porn-pushing techniques have been adopted into, and come to dominate, mainstream commerce? (Happy lynx user here, it's not often that I'm forced to see how visually appalling these sites have been designed to be.) -zefram
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
Franck Martin wrote: [..] An interesting subject for a thesis: The Porn and The Internet. Sub-titled The Beauties and The Beasts ? cheers, gja
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the first couple years of the web, adult sites financed it's development. In 1997 and 1998 90% of commerce on the web was adult related. The first few years of the web were financed by government funded research laboratories--initially CERN in Europe starting in 1990, followed by NCSA and others in late 1992. Commercial use didn't become a significant factor until 1994--until then the Internet was effectively ruled by the NSFNet backbone no commercial use policy. (There was certainly lots of porn on the internet before then, but not lots of money being made--most of the money-making porn was still on BBSs.) -dan
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: I just wonder: does anyone know/remember when the first Web porn site came online? I believe Kapor's law was first stated at the January '92 Usenix (The first use for any new communications technology is sex). Anyone remember the day when someone found a world-writable directory somewhere on the official X distribution site at MIT,which promptly got picked up by all the nightly mirrors (many of which then got indexed by archie)...
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
An interesting subject for a thesis: The Porn and The Internet. Sub-titled The Beauties and The Beasts ? Watch it. One fuzzball joke and I am outta here.
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:51:51 GMT, Lloyd Wood said: Simon Spero wrote: I believe Kapor's law was first stated at the January '92 Usenix (The first use for any new communications technology is sex). any SUCCESSFUL communications technology, surely? This must mean that 3G phones are destined to be sucessful... http://media.guardian.co.uk/newmedia/story/0,7496,872546,00.html msg09990/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
I have a vague recollection that CU-SeeMe was used for porn in late 1993. We were so innocent, we thought people would use it for conferencing.
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 07:51, Lloyd Wood wrote: Simon Spero wrote: I believe Kapor's law was first stated at the January '92 Usenix (The first use for any new communications technology is sex). any SUCCESSFUL communications technology, surely? Well before that, the French had the minitel... France Telecom was a long time ashamed to admit that the success of the service was entirely due to adult services. It has always been the case why: The content is readily available or very quick to produce (no need to write a thesis first) The content is appalling to many customers There is only one other area that has nearly the same qualities: VIOLENCE Unfortunately due to the good moral: depressing moments we tend now to sell to our kids violence oriented games... no wonder that many people in the world want to whack Irak. (I'm not neccessarily against whacking irak, I just said it is crasy to think it will be easy and without great pains). Make Love not War... as they said... How can the Internet Help? Cheers.
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Scott W Brim wrote: I have a vague recollection that CU-SeeMe was used for porn in late 1993. We were so innocent, we thought people would use it for conferencing. Speaking of technologies, has porn ever been multicast? Could have been a killer application in those times when bandwidth was scarce.. Perhaps that's why multicast never really kicked off.. -- Pekka Savola You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oykingdom bleeds. Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
g'day, There was also a certain amount of piggybacking onto legitimate open FTP sites to deliver porn going on for a while that predated the web by years. Back in those more innocent days some folks actually left their incoming FTP directories open and apparently there arose an on-demand file delivery service, in which folks would post requests for specific files and the pusher would push it into a well-known open FTP directory for pickup, then delete it so people wouldn't know it was going on. It was being used for porn, and also for various other contraband stuff (cracking programs, etc). I found out about this when the campus Director of Computing called that he'd received a complaint from NSF about McGill's porn site, which was located on one of our departmental machines (NSF was sharing the cost of the link to Canada, felt this violated the AUP and wanted it shut down NOW...) By the time I got to a terminal to check things out, all the bad stuff was gone, but yes we had a machine with an open directory, and when we started monitoring it, we saw lots of stuff coming and going until we closed it up. Off the top of my head, I'd say this would have been about 1989-89 or so. Others may have anecdotal evidence pushing it further back than that. - peterd Eliot Lear wrote: If you are looking for the first site that spoke HTTP, then I don't know. On the other hand, as we know there has been a history of development surrounding Internet porn. First of all, there were the various newsgroups, and the various (dis)assembly programs. One of these was AUB and it dates back to around 1992. Another of which was FSP, the UDP-based file sharing protocol written to get around TCP port filters. That would be in the 1993 time frame. While to the best of my knowledge IRC had no attachment to sex for its development, it in combination with various hacker sites played a role in sites being hacked and becoming warez and porn sites. Eliot Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: Despite having lived through much recent history, I've forgotten a lot of it I just wonder: does anyone know/remember when the first Web porn site came online? Wondering whether it was before or after the first official release of Mosaic Harald -- - Peter Deutsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gydig Software No, Harry - even in the wizarding world, hearing voices is not a good sign... - Hermione Granger --
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eliot Lear writes: If you are looking for the first site that spoke HTTP, then I don't know. On the other hand, as we know there has been a history of development surrounding Internet porn. First of all, there were the various newsgroups, and the various (dis)assembly programs. One of these was AUB and it dates back to around 1992. Another of which was FSP, the UDP-based file sharing protocol written to get around TCP port filters. That would be in the 1993 time frame. While to the best of my knowledge IRC had no attachment to sex for its development, it in combination with various hacker sites played a role in sites being hacked and becoming warez and porn sites. Google's archive has the first alt.sex posting as April 8, 1988. It's very rare that I have a work-related justification for searching alt.sex... --Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb (me) http://www.wilyhacker.com (2nd edition of Firewalls book)
RE: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
-Original Message- From: Steven M. Bellovin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 13 January 2003 1:38 To: Eliot Lear Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history. In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eliot Lear writes: If you are looking for the first site that spoke HTTP, then I don't know. On the other hand, as we know there has been a history of development surrounding Internet porn. First of all, there were the various newsgroups, and the various (dis)assembly programs. One of these was AUB and it dates back to around 1992. Another of which was FSP, the UDP-based file sharing protocol written to get around TCP port filters. That would be in the 1993 time frame. While to the best of my knowledge IRC had no attachment to sex for its development, it in combination with various hacker sites played a role in sites being hacked and becoming warez and porn sites. Google's archive has the first alt.sex posting as April 8, 1988. It's very rare that I have a work-related justification for searching alt.sex... An interesting subject for a thesis: The Porn and The Internet. You think I can apply for a grant to the NSF?
Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history.....
g'day, Franck Martin wrote: -Original Message- From: Steven M. Bellovin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 13 January 2003 1:38 To: Eliot Lear Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Searching for depressing moments of Internet history. In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eliot Lear writes: If you are looking for the first site that spoke HTTP, then I don't know. On the other hand, as we know there has been a history of development surrounding Internet porn. First of all, there were the various newsgroups, and the various (dis)assembly programs. One of these was AUB and it dates back to around 1992. Another of which was FSP, the UDP-based file sharing protocol written to get around TCP port filters. That would be in the 1993 time frame. While to the best of my knowledge IRC had no attachment to sex for its development, it in combination with various hacker sites played a role in sites being hacked and becoming warez and porn sites. Google's archive has the first alt.sex posting as April 8, 1988. It's very rare that I have a work-related justification for searching alt.sex... An interesting subject for a thesis: The Porn and The Internet. You think I can apply for a grant to the NSF? Nah, that would never fly. How about An Investigation into the Utility of Stimulus-Response Sites For Promoting Networked Growth Patterns. Worded that way, if DARPA wont fund it, you could always send it to the folks at NIH or whoever it is that funds the biotech stuff - peterd -- - Peter Deutsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gydig Software I was *that* close to getting 'download dirty pictures from the Internet' added to my job description -Wally from Dilbert... --
