[IANA #700324] stability of iana.org URLs
Hi, The link in RFC3315 is actually incorrect -- it should have been http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers, without the file extension, and there's an erratum about this. HTML was generally (I say generally because there may be exceptions Michelle would know about) reserved for files that needed to include links to registration forms, like MIME/Media Types (which will be converted to XML shortly) and URI Schemes. As Barry said, we do intend to keep that same short http://www.iana.org/assignments/example format working for every current page, even the newly-created ones. We also prefer to see that format used in documents, since we can't guarantee that the file extension used for the long version won't change. (This information will be appearing on the website in some form.) (BTW: I've never tried writing to ietf@ietf.org from our ticketing system, so Barry, would you mind pushing this along if it never shows up there?) Amanda Baber IANA Request Specialist ICANN On Wed Jul 31 14:06:28 2013, barryle...@computer.org wrote: I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. Supposed they should decide to turn them all into JSON (aie!)... the URLs would change again. But the suffix-less version will always work. When I've done AD reviews of documents that cite IANA URLs, I've given the authors that feedback, and suggested the change to the suffix-less URLs. I also intend to suggest to IANA (thanks to a document author, and I've since forgotten who it was; sorry) that they post permalinks in all the registries, so people will know which URL they ought to use, and not have to guess. Barry, Applications AD
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
I sent IANA a list of 45 iana.org URLs found in the RFCs that generate 404 NOT FOUND (along with the number of the RFC(s) where that URL was found). Amanda said she'd pass the list on to the redirector. Tony On 8/1/2013 2:48 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: Nonetheless, it's an existing URL in an immutable published RFC. Once such a thing has been published, right or wrong, best practice is to make sure it remains valid.
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
Hi, Amanda, In my experience, at some point, IANA was instructing authors to replace registry URLs (i.e., URLs to specific registries) with a generic pointer to http://www.iana.org instead. This had been based on text from RFC 5226, namely [1] and [2]. Before that there were URLs identifying the registry; and more recently as well, the guidance has been to include the suffex-less specific URL pointing to a registry, which is great. If IANA guarantees that stability, URLs pointing to the specific registry are very useful IMHO. Thanks, -- Carlos. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5226#section-4.2 4.2. What to Put in Documents That Create a Registry ... that it is a part of should be clearly identified. When referring to an already existing registry, providing a URL to precisely identify the registry is helpful. All such URLs, however, will be removed from the RFC prior to final publication. For example, documents could contain: [TO BE REMOVED: This registration should take place at the following location: http://www.iana.org/assignments/foobar-registry] [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5226#section-5.1 5.1. What to Put in Documents When Registering Values Note 2: When referring to an existing registry, providing a URL to precisely identify the registry is helpful. Such URLs, however, should usually be removed from the RFC prior to final publication, since IANA URLs are not guaranteed to be stable in the future. In cases where it is important to include a URL in the document, IANA should concur on its inclusion. On Aug 1, 2013, at 10:10 AM, Amanda Baber amanda.ba...@icann.org wrote: Hi, The link in RFC3315 is actually incorrect -- it should have been http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers, without the file extension, and there's an erratum about this. HTML was generally (if not exclusively) reserved for files that needed to include links to registration forms . As Barry said, we do intend to keep that same short http://www.iana.org/assignments/example format working for every current page, even the newly-created ones. We also prefer to see that format used in documents, since we can't guarantee that the file extension used for the long version won't change. (This information will be appearing on the website in some form.) Also, if you find that a formerly-valid URL (like one that used to have an .html exception) isn't redirecting to the current page, please report it to i...@iana.org. A redirect should have been set up. thanks, Amanda Baber IANA Request Specialist ICANN On Wed Jul 31 14:06:28 2013, barryle...@computer.org wrote: I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. Supposed they should decide to turn them all into JSON (aie!)... the URLs would change again. But the suffix-less version will always work. When I've done AD reviews of documents that cite IANA URLs, I've given the authors that feedback, and suggested the change to the suffix-less URLs. I also intend to suggest to IANA (thanks to a document author, and I've since forgotten who it was; sorry) that they post permalinks in all the registries, so people will know which URL they ought to use, and not have to guess. Barry, Applications AD signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
Jeffrey Hutzelman jh...@cmu.edu wrote: On Thu, 2013-08-01 at 01:10 -0700, Amanda Baber wrote: Hi, The link in RFC3315 is actually incorrect -- it should have been http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers, without the file extension, and there's an erratum about this. HTML was generally (if not exclusively) reserved for files that needed to include links to registration forms . Nonetheless, it's an existing URL in an immutable published RFC. Once such a thing has been published, right or wrong, best practice is to make sure it remains valid. that was my point... I did not think to look at Errata for a URL mistake The Apache mod_spelling module would even have fixed the reference, I think. -- Michael Richardson mcr+i...@sandelman.ca, Sandelman Software Works pgp1JU8eHClnt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
Hi, The link in RFC3315 is actually incorrect -- it should have been http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers, without the file extension, and there's an erratum about this. HTML was generally (if not exclusively) reserved for files that needed to include links to registration forms . As Barry said, we do intend to keep that same short http://www.iana.org/assignments/example format working for every current page, even the newly-created ones. We also prefer to see that format used in documents, since we can't guarantee that the file extension used for the long version won't change. (This information will be appearing on the website in some form.) Also, if you find that a formerly-valid URL (like one that used to have an .html exception) isn't redirecting to the current page, please report it to i...@iana.orgmailto:i...@iana.org. A redirect should have been set up. thanks, Amanda Baber IANA Request Specialist ICANN On Wed Jul 31 14:06:28 2013, barryle...@computer.org wrote: I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. Supposed they should decide to turn them all into JSON (aie!)... the URLs would change again. But the suffix-less version will always work. When I've done AD reviews of documents that cite IANA URLs, I've given the authors that feedback, and suggested the change to the suffix-less URLs. I also intend to suggest to IANA (thanks to a document author, and I've since forgotten who it was; sorry) that they post permalinks in all the registries, so people will know which URL they ought to use, and not have to guess. Barry, Applications AD
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
On Jul 31, 2013, at 10:11 AM, Peter Saint-Andre stpe...@stpeter.im wrote: That's true, but cool URIs don't change: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html Even cooler would have been URN's (e.g. urn:ietf:enterprise-numbers), which was designed specifically as a persistent handle to information (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_resource_name) but alas, it was not to be. /John
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/1/13 2:01 PM, John Curran wrote: On Jul 31, 2013, at 10:11 AM, Peter Saint-Andre stpe...@stpeter.im wrote: That's true, but cool URIs don't change: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html Even cooler would have been URN's (e.g. urn:ietf:enterprise-numbers), which was designed specifically as a persistent handle to information (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_resource_name) but alas, it was not to be. You're preaching to the choir: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-iana-urn/ Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJR+mKgAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pqxgP/3/G2YgYnSzblkgnxtx8zB8H ff81vkCnhRF/HnfZ5AwSjoXNvoGLNo+5e86ma6RUf6cOmKid11CaLqx6fZuBIKIt dDmeyPloU4cL90qr7DDa6+msecLUEJpywtc9rTqHCVreaxplVW01aAhIpHtx+ElH azvvYkg+C2uA2AYi2d9UCXheBKVFWZ25GxUUoUKF8VIy6htwslAZ+kbbaAuiStdo zc0+XKjnpTB2Ng2jrUfBScuguos8ISH4WbJ0bDMmcF0pl20tX7oiQ2OkdGkaNYuL UQIAZKyL+GZfhvFid+OSVWzNPUTP+ai3PXE4CdU5r1FdhyfYacQFXSvAzK5uSB5T Iuo7mBouv87MFYvRcAZOkRv1ALcYeut5ZrzB/1zCWDtTVo7dMuICLms7FdZ/IiMw j2Zd4xp+ATcPDiLAxACBoDU8l8A6Sw2XDr99o/G7qGu6Ligu5+qqjO1mrmEhNt9o ZcJKhdof8DLknMGUcOsU0vPyxNaJoutZbk2xMoiDCa8USlhCanwZO1Ok98tL6/dx sDGe750VH18YCCLZ0mpPHImtQK4OZ6dZSXIbxBeGCMiCQxiaKGbrKDeQAjf7ITa3 e86A9RN3LoJFpzL/uV+cHQisilrZaTZM4td7DHvGphmVdJu9vx0LAwPQU8+nTdWT iNF30/g+vGz1gHk0D6Ad =UYu0 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
Hi, The link in RFC3315 is actually incorrect -- it should have been http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers, without the file extension, and there's an erratum about this. HTML was generally (if not exclusively) reserved for files that needed to include links to registration forms . As Barry said, we do intend to keep that same short http://www.iana.org/assignments/example format working for every current page, even the newly-created ones. We also prefer to see that format used in documents, since we can't guarantee that the file extension used for the long version won't change. (This information will be appearing on the website in some form.) Also, if you find that a formerly-valid URL (like one that used to have an .html exception) isn't redirecting to the current page, please report it to i...@iana.orgmailto:i...@iana.org. A redirect should have been set up. Excellent, thanks. Ned
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
On Thu, 2013-08-01 at 01:10 -0700, Amanda Baber wrote: Hi, The link in RFC3315 is actually incorrect -- it should have been http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers, without the file extension, and there's an erratum about this. HTML was generally (if not exclusively) reserved for files that needed to include links to registration forms . Nonetheless, it's an existing URL in an immutable published RFC. Once such a thing has been published, right or wrong, best practice is to make sure it remains valid.
stability of iana.org URLs
I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers but I had to walk through the list of protocol numbers to find this. I feel relatively confident that I found the right list, but other people looking for registries that are more confusing (ikev1 vs ikev2, etc) might not wind up at the right place. -- Michael Richardson mcr+i...@sandelman.ca, Sandelman Software Works pgpNz2iGYWbOI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. Supposed they should decide to turn them all into JSON (aie!)... the URLs would change again. But the suffix-less version will always work. When I've done AD reviews of documents that cite IANA URLs, I've given the authors that feedback, and suggested the change to the suffix-less URLs. I also intend to suggest to IANA (thanks to a document author, and I've since forgotten who it was; sorry) that they post permalinks in all the registries, so people will know which URL they ought to use, and not have to guess. Barry, Applications AD
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
On 7/31/13 4:06 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. That's true, but cool URIs don't change: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html IMHO it'd be easy enough to put general redirects in place. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. That's true, but cool URIs don't change: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html IMHO it'd be easy enough to put general redirects in place. They have: they are keyed off the suffix-less URIs. That's why they want us to use those. Barry
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
From: Barry Leiba barryle...@computer.org They have: they are keyed off the suffix-less URIs. That's why they want us to use those. That doesn't change the point that breaking URLs in _previously-published, static_ documents is a Bad Thing. Noel
Re: stability of iana.org URLs
On 7/31/13 4:06 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: I just followed http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers.html From RFC3315 (DHCPv6)'s reference section. Ten years later, the URL doesn't work. I know that things were reworked when we went to XML based storage, but I thought that the old URLs would at least have a 301 error on them. I discovered that dropping the .html gets me the right data at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/enterprise-numbers Yes: that's the form that IANA would like you to use. They changed their registries from HTML to XML, and the URLs changed. That's true, but cool URIs don't change: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html IMHO it'd be easy enough to put general redirects in place. +1. mod_rewrite is nobody's friend, but it can be tamed and put to good use. Ned
