from:"Sandip Bhattacharya"

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 16:35:56 Gaurav Mishra wrote:
 And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought
 doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend
 you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that FSF
 has no meaning of existence even

 Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong !

Actually, Gaurav, this is less of an FSF and more of a Debian issue. So 
no point in dragging FSF into this debate. :)

Manoj has a point in Ubuntu having problems fixing patches upstream. It 
might be true, but certainly not intentional. Ubuntu's benevolent 
dictator - Mark talks about Ubuntu's perspective of the problem here: 
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/145 . You can certainly make 
out that he also agrees with the basic premise that changes should go 
upstream. But he also mentions atleast one aspect of the problem Ubuntu 
faces:

 In the month of April 2008, I found the following bug counts for
 large FLOSS projects: Upstreams:  Mozilla 5,334 OpenOffice
 1,076
 Gnome 5,364
 KDE   1,335
 Total:13,109
 Distributions:
 Ubuntu13,064
 Debian5,103

 With hindsight, April was possibly a bad choice, because it was an
 Ubuntu release month so there’s usually a small spike in the number
 of bugs filed. It would be interesting to see the stats for other
 distributions, and projects, over a full year. But the general
 picture is clear - within our family of distributions, Ubuntu carries
 the brunt of the load w.r.t. bug tracking, triage and patch
 management - not only for our users, but for a broad cross-section of
 the open source stack.

The numbers are clear. Especially for a distro which has made itself a 
mission of releasing every six months, handling an order of magnitude 
more bugs than other projects is certainly an issue. It is no excuse 
for not sending patches upstream, but people in this thread have 
oversimplified the process of actually sending patches upstream. Mark 
talks about it a bit in that post (read, ensuring that fixes get made 
upstream in the required time needs more than technical skills ;) ).

As Manoj has pointed out, there is probably a problem right now, and he 
might be right about it. My take is that it is not always an 
intentional thing but more of a case of a problem in managing the a 
project of the scale of Ubuntu. 

But, again, bitching to the world about how Ubuntu has been *leeching* 
from Debian does certainly not help their case ( or Ubuntu's). For two 
distributions which share so much and have quite a bit of overlap in 
goals, it certainly is not an effective way of co-operation in fixing 
this issue. I actually makes me suspect if the Debian folks are 
interested in a solution at all. It seems more like they are quite ok 
with Ubuntu not being there at all, regardless of whether Ubuntu has 
made any difference to the FOSS world. Sad, really, for a distro having 
such lofty goals.

- Sandip




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[ilugd] (Fw) FOSS.IN agenda for this year

foss.in is trying to change it's focus (again :) ) this year, and they are 
planning 
for something quite ambitious. In a way it is good for events to carve their 
own niche instead of having the same general outlook in each of them. 
Any comments?

- Sandip


http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/foss-in/message/5219


From: Atul Chitnis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FOSS.IN/2008: The Omelette Post :)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 16:51:06 +0530 (IST)

All:

A lot of people have noticed that unlike in previous years, we are not as
loud about FOSS.IN as we usually are. Now that the Call for Participation
is about to be published, it is time to explain why FOSS.IN/2008 is going
to be different from earlier incarnations.

First a quick reminder: FOSS.IN/2008 happens November 25-29, 2008, in
Bangalore, India. The website is at http://foss.in.

EVENT FOCUS
---

FOSS.IN has never been about advocacy, or philosophical discussions. While
such discussions may have their place, they steal valuable bandwidth when
it comes to getting things done. Especially here in India, where we tend
to lean towards political and religious aspects more easily than we tend
to roll up our sleeves and get some work done, it is important to
understand that FOSS.IN is meant to achieve tangible results.

With this in mind, FOSS.IN/2007 (last year's event) did not accept talks
that did not deliver practical, technical knowledge related to FOSS. And
the talks had to be delivered by actual contributors to the project being
discussed.

Also, FOSS.IN is NOT a newbie event. A newbie is defined as someone who
has no skills or knowledge or experience that would allow him or her to
immediately contribute to FOSS development. As has been repeatedly
explained to anyone who would listen - there are lots of newbie oriented
events all through the year, all over India, and people should be geting
their introductions to FOSS and their initial learning at such events,
including at user group meetings.

However, I personally was still unhappy with last years' results. Despite
the fact that we made it clear that we did not want to see elementary
stuff being covered at FOSS.IN, many of the talks were just that. The
Projects Days were very popular, but FOSS.IN is not about popularity, it
is about results.

And the bottom line is that while there was a measureable increase in
people getting involved in FOSS contribution, the quality left a lot to be
desired. Most new contributors focused only on low hanging fruit, such as
translations, and distro-specific packaging. If people got involved with
code, it was usually bug fixes and code maintenance.

While all these activities are extremely important, they do not need an
event like FOSS.IN to be triggered off - these are things one can get
involved with instantly, without really asking anyone, or attending a
talk.

FOSS.IN is far more ambitious, and is definitely not meant to cater to the
equivalent of outsourcing code/package maintenance.

Our event is meant to highlight Indian contribution to Free and Open
Source Software - not just bug fixes, but real code contributions, real
innovation, real projects.

Last year, we changed the event slogan from

Technology for a Free World

(that we had used since Linux Bangalore/2001) to Linus Torvalds' immortal
oneliner:

Talk is Cheap, Show Me the Code

This, in no uncertain terms, firmly declares the focus of FOSS.IN.

Effective this year, FOSS.IN will focus on developers, and results. It
will highlight credible efforts by people in India contributing to FOSS,
and will bring together developers at peer level, to allow them to
interact, discuss, develop and deliver.

Delivery does not mean mere bug fixing. Delivery will be new features to
existing applications, completely new subsystems (e.g. file systems,
device drivers, etc.), (re)design of systems and applications, etc.

Now I understand that many people will feel left out. There will be howls
from the detractors about us abandoning the basis for Free and Open Source
Software, and us being Anti-FOSS. This is because in their minds, we
must always cater only to beginners, and bring more people into the
fold.

Thank you, but that line of thinking was old when someone said that Linux
is cancer and Anti-American (and I think there were a few chairs
involved, too). Just because we choose to do things differently does not
mean that we are doing it wrong.

Yes, we realise that this will reduce the number of people who may come to
the event. Maybe we will be 500 people, maybe 1000. But that is OK. We are
trying to produce results that are measurable by our yardsticks
(active/increased contributors out of India), not those invariably used by
others (4.91 quantillion participants).

At FOSS.IN/2008, we want to see the best of the best from India. We want
to see the people who actually write the code, and who ARE contributing,
interact face to face with their

Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 19:23:44 Karanbir Singh wrote:
 Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
  Launchpad  isnt that closed source itself ?
 
  Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download
  it?

 Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their
 development inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product
 they have which can be downloaded isnt open source at all.

You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you 
implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being 
distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a 
service that is being commercially exploited? 

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:09:27 Karanbir Singh wrote:
 To be honest, I have better things to do than feed foo down clueless
 fanboys.

I am continuously amused by the singular acerbic tone in all your mails. 
Sure, you don't like to feed clueless fanboys like me. But you sure 
keep replying to our mails to keep your reputation in place. :)

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:09:27 Karanbir Singh wrote:

you guys really need to start looking at stuff before commenting on
it. if you really dont know what launchpad is, a bit of research
would be well in order. eg, components that went into launchpad, and
are used elsewhere in canonical's projects still remain closed
source. A simple 5 min google for 'launchpad open source' would give
you plenty of foo to roost over, even looking at the wikipedia page
for launchpad and its talk pages should have some info for you.

So I looked at Launchpad again to see if there is earth shattering that
I have been missing and that everybody else have got. And my question
still stands. Before jumping your gun and showing your impatience with
anybody disagreeing with you and making a complete fool of yourself, it
would suit you well to take a minute to read what they might be asking.

As per Wikipedia:
Launchpad is a web application and web site supporting software
development, particularly that of free software.

It helps in managing software components, so it is ofcourse a piece of
software. But to people using it, it is a service. Get what I am
talking about? Do you understand software as a service? Here is a
comparison of different such *services*.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities#cite_note-3

Interestingly, compare it to how sourceforge has been working all these
years. Unlike Sourceforge, it does not require you to grant a perpetual
proprietary licence if you upload code. It has not stopped zillions of
prominent free software to using it for their development.

I really find this whole business of using launchpad as a beating stick
really disgusting. And like you, I too don't like wasting too much of
my time with obsessively negative people who don't ever have anything
constructive to say.

- Sandip

Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 22:22:11 Manoj Srivastava wrote:

 So, it is software that helps to provide a service. That
 piece of software is non-free. I think that matters.

 Whether the software runs as a one shot unix like
 input/output filter, or it generates web pages, or it is daemonized
 and
  handles requests (like, say, an X Windows server), it is still a
  computer program that runs and manipulated bits. If it is not free
  software, it is like any other free to use closed source software.

 And having the major original pieceof software Ubuntu writes
  being closed source  matters, whether it is or is not a daemon. Free
  software is not about it being free to use. It is about it being
 free to modify and distribute.


* Any particular reason why nobody from Debian or elsewhere has actually 
  cribbed about RHN not being open source? 

* Leaving aside Launchpad, do you seriously believe that whenever 
someone writes a web application to provide a service to people, the 
author is obliged to spend time trying to package it as a general 
purpose software which can be reused by others for other kind of 
applications?

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:34:27 Atanu Datta wrote:
 On Wed, October 1, 2008 11:25 pm, Sandip Bhattacharya said:
  * Any particular reason why nobody from Debian or elsewhere has
  actually cribbed about RHN not being open source?

 Because RHN's upstream, i.e., Spacewalk is open source -- exactly the
 same reason why no one *cribs* about Star Office, which is based on
 OOo, being closed source. Does Launchpad also have an upstream that
 is open?


My apologies. I have not been keeping up with the developments in the RH 
world, and hence this analogy. I just read a bit about it and I take my 
words back.

http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/06/19/rhn-satellite-goes-open-source-project-spacewalk/

Of course, it is probably still relevant to some degree that it took 
them seven years to reach here, and even this is quite a recent 
development. Of course, nothing changes the fact that this is by itself 
a very laudable initiative, and addresses one of my long standing 
grouse against RH.

- Sandip





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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:39:53 Manoj Srivastava wrote:
 You are right. Ubuntu has not made my task easuier, or made
 the lives of my users any easier.  If anything, they are an obstacle
 int he way of people using my code to communicate issues they find in
 my code from getting to me, which is irksome.

 Since I do nto do free software for altruistic reasons, I do
 not see the benefit really of getting more unwashed masses into
 Linux. Really I don't.  They do not seem to be lifting the forks to
 feed the rest of us.

This was curious, so I dug around and read this: 
http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/india-irc.txt and seriously 
speaking, it was quite an eye opener. I have been trying to completely 
understand where you are coming from, and now I do. I am not sure 
though whether your views represent the rest of the Debian team.

Unlike what some people think around here, my defense of Ubuntu has got 
less to do with my fascination about it, and more about my conviction 
that it currently provides one of the better Linux alternatives in the 
market for the masses. 

You have a very valid alternative of the world in mind and unlike me you 
have contributed a lot to that alternative, and I respect that. 
However, the masses don't figure in your utopia, but it does in mine. 
So I will close my end of the discussion at this point, because it is 
obvious that we can never reach a conclusion.

- Sandip




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Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:54:31 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
 Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has
 rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to
 adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock
 us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by
 MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is
 awaiting.


Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while 
now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it 
a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative.

It is a very interesting technology which will obviously change the way 
many applications can work. It challenges the whole notion of how 
computing is done today. The only response to it from a FOSS POV is to 
provide an alternate business model. Something similar to how the SETI 
project(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing), or even Tor 
works.

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap

On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:19:51 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
 I quite agree with RMS. When we work locally at least data is with
 us. Cloud computing followed by SaaS is a dangerous stuff. There can

I am not saying that I disagree with RMS about the software freedom 
dangers of cloud computing in the hand of proprietary companies. 

What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even 
touch the technology because the closed source business model is the 
only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no 
doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit 
a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have 
today.

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:55:21 Atanu Datta wrote:

 All GNU documentation, including that of GNU make, are released under
 GNU FDL. May I know why Debian Free Software Guidelines considers it
 non-free?


http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml


I am not sure how current it is, but Manoj can clarify that. It is a 
rather poetic display of the clash between FSF's and Debian's 
interpretation of what freedom should be. :) Debian's points do matter, 
legally speaking, but if you take a step back and see what is 
happening, it sometimes makes you shake your head.

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] { Idea } Taking ScreenShot While installing Linux OS

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 14:25:47 narendra sisodiya wrote:
 
  debian-installer has such a thing built in.
  http://wiki.debian.org/ScreenShots#debian-instsaller-gui

 Cool, I was not aware of this fact, never noticed, ( as I am a fedora
 guy )


AFAIR, Anaconda has screenshot capability for quite a long time now. I 
can't locate the appropriate documentation right now, but there is a 
keyboard shortcut for it, I think.

In fact, it even supports automated screenshot capability with kickstart 
which will take screenshots at every step.  
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#Chapter_2._Kickstart_Options

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 06:18:32 Manoj Srivastava wrote:
 And Ubuntu's effort in feeding back patches to Debian have
 not really impressed the Debian developers that much (apart, perhaps,
 from those being paid by Mark).

So, let me get this straight. You find the efforts of full-time 
dedicated Canonical staff contributing back to Debian ok. Your problem 
is with the *users* not contributing back to Debian? And that surprises 
you? 

Maybe you have forgotten the profile of end-users that current crop of 
Linux distros like Ubuntu, Fedora address. Debian requires non-trivial 
understanding of a desktop OS from it's users. So it's users are more 
likely to contribute back with quite some detail. The kind of interface 
that Ubuntu/Fedora is moving to, is precisely to remove that kind of 
technical expectation from the end users. 

Given that goal, it is but obvious that the kind of feedback you people 
will get will be less detailed. Take a look at the bugs of Ubuntu as 
compared to the bugs of Debian and you will find the difference. The 
bugs of Ubuntu are generally like this does not work! somebody please 
fix this!. The bugs of Debian are like this does not work! I looked 
here and there and this is what I found. Here is what you might be 
doing.

It is a qualitative difference. And it is inevitable. That is what is 
going to happen when you take Linux to the masses. Face it! :) If you 
disagree and say you do not want such users, I am sorry, but you and I 
see different futures for Linux.

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] Linux Software Installer Howto

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 15:59:49 Nalin Savara wrote:
 Is there some script or package--- with which I can package it the
 way one packages MSI files on windows-- so that the script/installer
 copies the jar file into appropriate directories-- and creates
 desktop and
 Applications-menu shortcuts to the jar file ?

Quite a few here. Some are Opensource.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_installation_software

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] What do you think about this blog ?

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 20:14:50 Arun SAG wrote:
 I came across this blog..What are your comments..

 http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/

I think it is quite an interesting perspective, presented in a ... 
uh ... very temperate manner. ;) Well, it would be good for the Linux 
community if it can handle some criticism. Besides for a change, the 
guy writing this is not just mouthing expletives but actually providing 
lots of references for what he believes in. I respect that.

Interestingly, look at what he said about Greg's comment recently on 
Ubuntu which was discussed very recently on this list.

http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/09/free-as-long-as-you-give-back.html
(No images. But we warned, the text isn't work friendly)

- Sandip


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[ilugd] Linux criticisms (was) Re: What do you think about this blog ?

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 20:14:50 Arun SAG wrote:
 I came across this blog..What are your comments..

 http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/


With the help of the site above, I came across another - which seems 
quite a bit less foul and juvenile, and where the author somewhat knows 
more about what exactly the problem with Linux is.

http://elliotth.blogspot.com/

In fact, I found this post quite a well written criticism of the problem 
with Linux desktop usability. 

http://elliotth.blogspot.com/2008/09/desktop-linux-suckage-wheres-our-steve.html

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] LDAP Server

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 20:12:50 tarun singhal wrote:
 problem facing in the root.ldif file
 after adding new entry: uid=root,ou=People,dc=example,dc=com
 i.e.  ldap_add: No such object (32)


 ==
 file : root.ldif
 ==
 dn: uid=root,ou=People,dc=example,dc=com
 uid: root
 cn: Manager


 dn: uid=operator,ou=People,dc=example,dc=com
 uid: operator
 cn: operator
 objectClass: account
 objectClass: posixAccount
 objectClass: top
 objectClass: shadowAccount

Has been years since I have touched this. Have you created the entries 
for dc=example,dc=com and ou=People, dc=example,dc=com before 
trying to add root.ldif?

Take a look at the openldap tutorials (e.g. 
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2003/03/27/ldap_ab.html) to learn 
more about the actualy sequence for initializing the database.

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 20:36:02 Arun SAG wrote:
 yeah sure..sorry for that...By the way here is the link
 http://lwn.net/Articles/293906/


Strange that you quote that article for the accusation about Ubuntu and 
the only takeaway that you had was that it is not contributing. Maybe 
you have not read the article in full, but it actually presents a quite 
well-balanced view on those accusations.

I quote a snippet here:


There is no doubt that Ubuntu could do better than it has. But we should 
not lose track of what Ubuntu has done. Ubuntu has created a 
distribution which appeals to a whole new class of Linux users. The 
fact that much of this work was done elsewhere notwithstanding, Ubuntu 
has shown that a Linux system can wear a friendlier, easier-to-use 
face. In the process, it has made Debian suitable for a larger class of 
users. Ubuntu has shown that a Debian-based distribution can make 
regular, stable releases and still ship contemporary software. Ubuntu 
has lived up to its promises of support, including providing 
top-quality security support. And all of this is happening in a way 
that, we are told, should become commercially self-sustaining at some 
point. 





- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Windblows on Software Freedom Day

2008-09-23 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

On Monday 22 September 2008 01:00:18 Gora Mohanty wrote:
 (b) Should Sarai, as an avowedly FOSS organisation, use
 proprietary software in a public demo? My opinion is no,
 but again I believe that this should be done through peer
 pressure, rather than outright banning. The person in
 question uses Linux/KDE on his desktop, which is a large
 part of his computing, and dual-boots at home due to his
 daughter's addiction to KDE games. He has been considering
 switching his laptop too to Linux, so maybe here is an
 opportunity.

At the risk of a flame war debating between GPL and BSD licences, this 
is exactly the difference between the two licences, IMO of course.

* GPL restricts complete freedom, by putting in conditions, for the 
higher goal of software freedom for the society.
* BSD (w/o advert. clause) strives for complete freedom. They share the 
same goals as GPL - software freedom, but give further freedom to 
users - the choice to use whatever licence they want for their 
derivatives.

Both have their own approaches to a common goal( One should not fault 
any one for the other).So do we, in deciding how to take this day 
forward.

My belief is that software freedom advocacy should not be a black and 
white here, or not any where approach. For most people, freedom is a 
long journey - from the initial steps into using a FOSS browser, then 
to a FOSS mail client ... hopefully eventually to a FOSS OS. Every step 
on the way of freedom should be congratulated and encouraged.

Firefox has arguably done more to the popularity of FOSS than any other 
software in history. A whole lot of people, who would otherwise had 
never tried FOSS voluntarily, have come to believe that something free 
can be so good. The next  step is to make them believe how the free 
part is more than just money.

There is such a long way to go. Acting pedantic and orthodox about 
freedom is never going to help the cause. 

Besides seeing parts of the world they are familiar with during these 
presentations is only going to make new entrants more comfortable and 
more likely to try them out. Moving to a different OS is a life 
changing activity very few have the stomach to take. Actually, if they 
see everything in Linux, they would probably be more detached from the 
subject, as they would have the mental barrier - to use this, I first 
have to change my OS. They will nod, but would be afraid to take the 
big step before it.

Infiltrating the world of Windows and Mac with FOSS, getting them hooked 
on free software and eventually tempting them to try the OS itself, 
might just be a more effective way to get the masses in. (notice how 
the last line looks like something billg@ might have said about his OS 
several years back ;) )

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] Come join me on Jaypee Institute of Information Technology University OSUM on Open Source University Meetup...

On Friday 19 September 2008 00:48:26 Raj Mathur wrote:
 Who all want to contribute to the ``ILUGD Buy NS A Spelling
 Dictionary'' Fund?  I'm putting in Rs 500 for starters ;)

There are more than one active NS on this list. One of them is 
definitely the candidate. ;)

- Sandip

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[ilugd] [OT] Re: Come join me on Jaypee Institute of Information Technology University OSUM on Open Source University Meetup...

On Friday 19 September 2008 13:05:55 Nalin Savara wrote:

 It's just a opinion--- based on fact--- but if chat lingo can be
 used, then why not SMS lingo rather than queen's english ?

What exactly is the fact out here? :)

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] sms speak in mailing lists (was) Come join me on Jaypee Institute of Information Technology University OSUM on Open Source University Meetup...

On Friday 19 September 2008 13:05:55 Nalin Savara wrote:

 with the next 1 billion internet users expected to access net frm
 mobile devices, IMHO it's the ones that make sharp remarks abt SMS
 lingo that need a SMS dictionary--- rather than me.

If you had been using a language, then it would be a lesser problem. The 
point is that 'SMS lingo' is not a *language*. If all you people 
writing sms-speak would write the same word the same way all the time, 
you would probably have a better case to argue about it being an 
acceptable form of communication and perhaps, the rest of us would 
cringe and accept it as yet another inevitable sign of us getting 
older. But you do not, and every person writing in such a form has a 
different interpretation of how to communicate. Actually, I would 
consider this as noise, in a community where written communication is 
the major mode of how people interact.

So till sms-speak becomes a language, it is going to be considered to 
be an inferior and an unwanted form of communication here. Nobody is 
going to ban people writing in such a form, but people who could have 
had a more fruitful discussion with you, might not.

P.S. I consider this discussion to be very relevant to this list, as 
this is a frequently discussed topic (and is actually mentioned in out 
list guidelines) and am therefore not marking this mail OT.

offtopic
I am actually a bit surprised how a mere collective suggestion from 
people about writing in the official language of this list has to go 
towards accusations of genuflecting to the British, especially when you 
are arguing for a (probably american) variation of this language 
itself. :) It has been 60+ years since we sent the Britishers out, and 
the fact that we are still using English should amply show that it is 
as native to this land by now as any other state language. In fact, 
more people use English virtually as their first language than there 
are native speakers for many dialects in this country (citation 
needed :-P )
/offtopic

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Licence schemes for the Ideas !!!

On Friday 19 September 2008 12:43:06 narendra sisodiya wrote:
 Hey, I got a idea that can we GPL our ideas ??
 Like normally I use to get a large number of ideas which I will not
 able to implement in this life. But I want somebody should implement
 those ideas. But I do not want that somebody should use them as
 patent or propitiatory work. infact if Ideas are in GPL public domain
 then everybody is allowed to implement it. So in the current licence
 schemes , can i publish my ideas under GPL or similar licence.
 for example , let suppose I will a rocking idea for energy saving
 system and will tell the way of implement it,But i will not implement
 it, I want other companies to implement it.
 So is it possible to deliver the rocking ideas in public domain
 insuring that it will not be used for patent or similar purpose??

IANAL.

First of all, public domain is equivalent to no licence at all, and 
could probably only theoretically prevent software patents. The only 
way to *ensure* that it cannot be patented is someone going through 
every patent application from this day onwards to check if it matches 
any of your ideas in the public domain. Of course, it is not practical 
and so you can stop thinking on this line. :)

Also, unless your idea is overtly visible, you can never ensure that it 
is not hidden by implementations protected by trade secrets.

My suggestion would be that, if you really interested in the world 
benefiting from your ideas, to worry less about who can exploit it and 
instead just go ahead and publish it in some way. The form of 
publishing(books, art,etc.) could be copyrighted and put in public 
domain or some of the creative common licenses. 

What you should worry about is how to disseminate it as much as possible 
(and therefore it is important you use as liberal a distribution 
licence as possible) as the more widespread it becomes, the better 
protection it will get against some one trying to patent it in some 
way.

- Sandip

P.S. The world of patents is full of jugaads(we call them hacks, 
BTW ;) ). So don't let it stop you. :)




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Re: [ilugd] Fwd: [ILUG-GOA] RedHat/Fedora Crisis

2008-09-11 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

On Thursday 11 September 2008 20:25:43 Mani A wrote:
  Sudhanwa Jogalekar  wrote:
  Fwd: RedHat/Fedora Crisis...

 We had a long discussion on this in the Ambassador's list
 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2008-Septembe
r/msg00195.html

 The article is misleading and has factual inaccuracies. It can
 however be said that the Fedora infrastructure team does not have a
 proper policy in place for crisis management.



Not disputing what you said, but could you point me to an email, article 
or webpage which explains the inaccuracies of the OP? The thread you 
mentioned talks about just the opposite - ambassadors sad about the 
event and more or less agreeing to the OP.

The only point I have against the article is that it doesn't mention if 
the said breach was known by any Fedora leaders not working at Redhat. 
If Redhat came to know about it from their own sources, and decided not 
to expose it to public, it was still bad but atleast people in the 
project who do not have a conflict of interest should not be taking a 
hit on their credibility. How many such people are actually on the 
board? Do they have to sign any confidentiality clause with Redhat?

- Sandip

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[ilugd] Linux distro for regular users (was) Re: RPM bundle Packaging System -- was --( Re: Need Fedora 9 DVD. )

2008-09-10 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

On Wednesday 10 September 2008 07:45:15 Ashish Shukla आशीष शुक्ल wrote:
 If lack of more no. of packages in repositories are problem, use
 Gentoo GNU/Linux, which is a source-based distro. And customize your
 Gentoo GNU/Linux according to your flags.

Ok, so Gentoo would also satisfy the condition of having adequate number 
of applications in the official repository.

As soon as you use flags though, you are no longer a regular user, but 
start moving to being a power-user. Do you understand where I am 
getting at?


  2. Consider any application which is not available in the
  repository as simply not available. It doesn't exist. Kaput. Live
  with it. Resist all attempts to download and compile, especially
  packages which deviate even one step away
  from ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/$NAME;make;make install.

 If the port is not in repositories, writing an ebuild (installation
 recipe from source code) will take  5 minutes, if it uses the
 autotools procedure.

Right, good to have, but that would not be useful to people who just 
want to use the OS without understanding what autotools is, isn't it?


 I've been using Gentoo GNU/Linux since 2007 with no noticeable
 issues.

 In case there're any bugs you find, which you can think you can fix
 it, you already have the source, so simply extract it somewhere, fix
 the bug, create a patch, and post it to bug tracker and upstream.
 With binary package based distros, you've to download sources
 separately :).

True for all Linux distros. However, not an advantage that I would talk 
about when I am introducing someone who wants to just use Linux.

This thread has been going several ways, and just to clarify the 
direction where my arguments are, I have changed the subject. Let us 
say, I want to introduce Linux as an alternative to a person who has 
got tired of using Windows Vista. A person who simply uses it for his 
say to day work like mail, office, multimedia, etc., for example like 
my fictitious college going cousin who aspires to be a movie director 
one day, principled enough not to pirate software and yet too poor to 
afford the commercial programs. I tell him about 
cinerella,kdenline,kino etc. and he is willing to format his brand new 
desktop and go in for linux if it is not too much of a bother. How can 
you sell Linux to him?

- The fact that you can download the source and fix your own thing makes 
no difference to him. Zilch. He might appreciate the option, but his 
interest ends there.

- The fact that you can optimise the OS while installing doesn't work 
too well too. He wants to do a degree in communication, not computer 
science.

- The most important criteria for him would be install the OS without 
knowing what partitions are. So the last thing that he needs to know is 
how to do dual boots.

- The next important thing is how to install applications that he wants. 
Most linux distros have the tools for it, but the official repository 
size matters here. You cannot send him over to a search for a good 
third party repository.

- For support  you can point him to any of the forums of the linux 
distros. What matters here is which distro forums are more friendly 
to newbies.

- You can instill some FOSS etiquettes to him by mentioning that he is 
likely to get better responses if he gives enough evidence that he has 
tried fixing his problem before giving up, etc. etc.

I dare say that most of the people on this list are not at all the role 
models for people intending to use Linux only as a user. So stop giving 
the argument that because you never faced a problem with so and so 
distro, they wont face one. Most of the people here are either at guru 
level or power user level of competence. It takes such a level to even 
find this mailing list and join it. :)

The first step of moving to put new users at ease is to acknowledge the 
work left to be done. Being intemperate fan boys  doesn't help the 
collective work before us - divided we fall.

I understand the inadequacy of even the option(s) I am suggesting. 
Things are not too smooth in any distro right now, no matter how much 
its legions of fans would like you to believe. A supportive and 
positive community who understands the needs and *limitations* of its 
users would help.

If your interest in advocacy of Linux doesn't extend to the audience I 
have talked about in this mail - non-technical users, we are not even 
talking about the same thing, so we can stop debating about this.

- Sandip


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Re: [ilugd] How to use Fedora 9 for Commerical use

On Monday 08 September 2008 12:21:18 narendra sisodiya wrote:
 I have a question, Can I use Fedora 9 as a commercial use to develop
 software. ?
 has anybody studied its license policies ?
 Actually generally compaies buy Redhat. Do we any exmple for Free of
 cost or linux distro in companies ??

 Ref :  At software list :- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing
 There are some packagse which are commercial restrictive. removing
 package will solve the problem.

Explain commercial use to develop software. 

- Are you trying to use that as your development platform? None of the 
linux distros stop you from doing that.

- Are you planning to package your software along with a distro to your 
clients? Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu,Gentoo all allow you to do that. 

Not too many people understand the distribution legalities of Redhat 
Linux completely. *My* interpretation is that while it is the RHN 
services which cost money and as per the licence of the software on the 
CDs, you are free to copy and distribute them, ... there are some 
trademark issues that you have to worry about if you intend to 
distribute Redhat Linux along with your software. Redhat's 
(intentional?) lack of clarification in this regard makes the distro a 
no-no for any commercial software+Redhat Linux bundle in my book. If 
someone really wants to provide it to their clients, it is safer to ask 
the client to purchase a copy and install your software from an 
installer.

OTOH, I would strongly recommend Ubuntu for such uses. It is as stable 
as Fedora, commercial support is available if any of your clients want 
it but not tied in, unlike Fedora it is not promoted as a poor cousin 
by its primary sponsor, and long term support releases are available to 
assure stability to your clients.

- Sandip





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Re: [ilugd] RPM bundle Packaging System -- was --( Re: Need Fedora 9 DVD. )

On Tuesday 09 September 2008 19:36:41 narendra sisodiya wrote:
I am not saying i have a solution , but something new system
 should come so that common user, who do not have Internet, will NEVER
 in life  say i have a dependancy error and able to install
 *dreamware* by one click.

   I know yum and other do excellent job BUT for COMMON student
 like me (2 year before) who do not have internet, it is ALMOST
 imposible to use Linux -- Just because (1) I need to see HOW - TO on
 internet and (2) need packages from internet

My years of experience being an *user* in Linux has taught me this:

1. Choose a distro which has a good default repository of packages. I 
stopped using Fedora years back because it only had the Ubuntu 
equivalent of main and everything else had to be managed by 
downloading from third party repository like freshrpms etc., which had 
their own set of incompatibilities. At the risk of starting a flame 
war, I would suggest using any debian based distro(including debian 
itself) , enabling universe/multiverse equivalent of repositories in 
the distro and take advantage of their huge repositories.

2. Consider any application which is not available in the repository as 
simply not available. It doesn't exist. Kaput. Live with it. Resist 
all attempts to download and compile, especially packages which deviate 
even one step away 
from ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/$NAME;make;make install.

Anything else (been there. done that), unless you are a backup guru, 
your next fresh install or failed distro upgrade will cause you ulcers.

If you keep these two steps in mind as a Linux *user*, there is mostly 
not any more jung to go out fighting for. :) 

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] RPM bundle Packaging System -- was --( Re: Need Fedora 9 DVD. )

On Tuesday 09 September 2008 21:27:19 Karanbir Singh wrote:
  1. Choose a distro which has a good default repository of packages.
  I stopped using Fedora years back because it only had the Ubuntu
  equivalent of main and everything else had to be managed by
  downloading from third party repository like freshrpms etc., which
  had their own set of incompatibilities. At the risk of starting a
  flame war, I would suggest using any debian based distro(including
  debian itself) , enabling universe/multiverse equivalent of
  repositories in the distro and take advantage of their huge
  repositories.

 Surely this situation has changed recently ? Also the level of QA
 done for the pkgs in fedora at the moment is much higher and better
 organised than ubuntu.

 Personally I think Ubuntu is a total and complete waste of time. for
 everyone involved. Except a few of the guys at Canonical who are only
 sitting back and laughing at the fanatical religions zealots that
 seem to have spurned out of the woodwork.

Well, it would have been nicer if your arguments against ubuntu were a 
bit more specific than a sweeping waste of time. Also, it would have 
been helpful to have explained, if your intention was indeed to 
convince me otherwise, exactly how the specific problem I mentioned 
about Fedora some time back has changed.  Guess how one can make out 
zealots? ;)


  2. Consider any application which is not available in the
  repository as simply not available. It doesn't exist. Kaput. Live
  with it. Resist all attempts to download and compile, especially
  packages which deviate even one step away
  from ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/$NAME;make;make install.

 I take it that you havent actually ever used Linux in a production
 environment then. Even for pkgs that *do* exist in repos - most
 packages are encouraged to make sensible choices for good defaults,
 not to fit every use case. For the use case, its common to see pkgs
 redone inhouse to suit taste and requirements.

You must have missed out my rider at the top of my mail - I was talking 
for the benefit of a regular user. One who doesn't need to be a power 
user to use Linux. Your use case seems to be quite different from 
Narendra's friend/brother/cousin out there which I was addressing.

BTW, in a typical SOHO environment or even large companies which use 
Linux boxes for specific uses like mail servers, database servers, 
etc., what % of packages are actually redone? In most cases, only the 
ones specific to the use of the box are actually looked at carefully 
and configured appropriately. Most organizations out there cannot 
afford to have a separate local branch of packages where 
vendor/security changes are merged and maintained separately.

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] How to use Fedora 9 for Commerical use

On Tuesday 09 September 2008 20:22:18 Harish Pillay wrote:
 Just so that the perception is not perpetuated, Fedora is not a poor
 cousin of anything.  It is the leading distribution that is
 completely free (both in libre and beer) and open to anyone to add. 
 RHEL is downstream to Fedora.  If Fedora does not exist, RHEL does
 not as well.


I respect Redhat well enough not to start off a war of mails against it. 
So I would just stop with this last mail on the subject. Just to 
clarify why I mentioned Fedora to be *projected*(not necessarily 
actually being) as a poor cousin:

1. Imagine how a SOHO business would react when a small time solution 
provider pitches a solution based on Fedora and the client reads this: 
http://www.redhat.com/rhel/migrate/whichlinux/

2. Actually being at a Linux exhibition in India where RH sales 
executives talk to potential buyers about their products vis-a-vis 
Fedora.

For the non-RH fanboys on the list, note that I am not trashing Fedora 
on its competence - I don't find it too different from my current 
distro of choice - Ubuntu.

And I am comparing it to Ubuntu only as to how it is projected by its 
primary sponsor Canonical. They provide commercial support on exactly 
the same software that you are otherwise getting to use for free.

It makes a lot of difference to solutions providers like the one 
Narendra is talking about. If I had been sending promo matter for my 
solution based on Fedora, I would be uncomfortable sending them a link 
to redhat.com, but I can confidently send a link to ubuntu.com if my 
solution is based on it.

- Sandip




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Re: [ilugd] Bengalureans to come out with candles against monopolising knowledge

2008-08-22 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Praveen A [20/08/08 23:47 +0530]:
Free Software User Group Bangalore is organising candle light vigil to
say no to software patents on 23rd Saturday.

More details here
http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_To_Software_Patents#Candle_Light_Vigil

Invite your facebook friends at
http://www.new.facebook.com/event.php?eid=27662916862


Also at upcoming: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/group/3268/

If anyone here uses upcoming, do join the ilugd group at
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/group/3268/

- Sandip

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http://blog.sandipb.net

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Re: [ilugd] GPG Key Server

2008-08-20 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Anand Shankar [20/08/08 07:49 +0530]:
1. Wanted to set up a GPG Key Server inside my organisation intranet.
I could not find an option to do that. Is it necessary / good idea to
use a Public Key Server for such use?

I can't think of any even far-fetched security issue with using a public
key server for an organization. There isn't anything to break in a
public key.

The only important thing to think about is not whether you should keep
your GPG public key in a public key server. But that people exchange
encrypted mails only with people whose keys they trust - that is, they
have followed due process in personally verifying that the key belongs
to the person they think they are mailing to. Or that the key is signed
by a person you trust. 

To give an example, it would be careless to see a key ID in somebody's
mail, download the key and then send an encrypted mail to the person.
You should preferably contact the person personally and verify his key
(needs to be done only once in the key's lifetime) or check the sigs to
see if they match somebody you trust. Many people in orgs miss this part
of the GPG security model and mistakenly assume that just because they
are using something with encryption, nothing can go wrong.

- Sandip

-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
http://blog.sandipb.net

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Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose

2008-07-24 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Raj Mathur [22/07/08 18:46 +0530]:
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote:
 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux
 copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or
 restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which
 is how will he get the distro.

IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark 
rather than copyright to protect its operating systems.  So you can 
re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be 
violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so.

Perhaps someone from RH on this list could give us accurate information?



Right, I would also like to know, that since the application themselves
are GPLed, is using the trademark argument a mechanism to subvert
the rights given in the licence itself?

I think the Debian folks had a long talk with the Firefox people on
something similar before going the whole Iceweasel way.

- Sandip


-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
http://blog.sandipb.net

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Re: [ilugd] Fwd: Change of timezone City for India

2008-07-04 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Viksit Gaur [04/07/08 01:49 -0700]:
Oh good lord, the entire list is aflame. Oh wait, no its just the regular 
flamers who're flaming.

 India has only one timezone. I woulid like to suggest to
 change the city to Delhi (from Calcutta), which is the capital of
 India, and has been stable since the country's independence in 1947.
 If your criteria is the most populous city, it would be Mumbai (formerly
 Bombay).
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_India

I think a decision needs to be made on the basis of how other countries with 
single timezones handle this issue. Personally, I think a change to Delhi 
seems like the logical thing to do, given that it IS the political capital of 
the country - no matter how important other cities in the country may be.

  ... but we are talking about the time zone, not the political zone (in
that Delhi being the centre in unquestionable).

As someone else had mentioned earlier, should we be moving every
institution of national significance to the capital? Are other cities
insignificant w.r.t. the country?

- Sandip

-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
http://blog.sandipb.net

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Re: [ilugd] Fwd: Change of timezone City for India

2008-07-02 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Kenneth Gonsalves [02/07/08 17:58 +0530]:
changed to Chennai according to your logic. All you are doing is  
fanning the flames of regionalism, chauvinism, confucianism and god  
knows what else. For heaven's sake leave this alone and go do  
something useful.

I concur. The country is in too socially vulnerable a state to even
initiate such issues. Who knows when some party comes over asking for
breaking up the timezone further and dividing it on the basis of
socio-economic reasons. :D

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] FOSS: VAT or service tax [was] Bill Gates got Windows 1.0 source-code from trash-bin

2008-06-30 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Kenneth Gonsalves [30/06/08 14:11 +0530]:

I would tend to the opinion that sale of any software, let alone FOSS  
is illegal, immoral and an act of cheating - the only point is, that  
the courts have to recognise this.


According to all FOSS licences, the software itself need not be
available to be downloadable to public - only to the customer (You can't 
restrain your
customers from distributing it though) But the essence being that all
the rights the licences talk about, are that of the paying customer.

If that is the case, why cannot one sell software with source along
with all the other freedoms given by the licence? What is immoral about
it? When you are using the term 'immoral', you mean it is the violation
of certain principles/intent of the licence. What violation do you see
here?

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] FOSS: VAT or service tax [was] Bill Gates got Windows 1.0 source-code from trash-bin

2008-06-30 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Kenneth Gonsalves [30/06/08 20:41 +0530]:

software is knowledge. Knowledge cannot be bought or sold. It can  
only be shared.


And you would gladly share for a neat sum of money?

In the Gurukul system, knowledge was gladly shared for next to nothing.

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Advocacy rules

2008-06-25 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Kenneth Gonsalves [25/06/08 11:15 +0530]:
 In other words, when the future of the open source efforts of a closed
 source project is not certain and can possibly end with a less than  
 admirable
 result, would you still spend years promoting it and ending up like an
 indignant fool at the end?

it is more likely to wind up fully open source if we allow them in  
than if we only allow them in when they are fully 'purified'

Even though it seems very similar, I think the issue is the difference
between words and deeds.

Would it be okay for people to discuss and advocate M$  Opensource
initiative here? Java wasn't discussed till it got finally Open sourced.
Even though people have been calling for it to be Open sourced for
years, and Sun saying that they are considering it.

Ok. I feel I am moving in circles out here, and I would stop now. :)

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Advocacy rules

2008-06-24 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya

+++ Gora Mohanty [23/06/08 22:11 +0530]:
Thank you for that nice summary. I am far from being a free-software
purist, and am quite willing to accept discussions of projects that are
in the process of being open-sourced, or even ones where people are
trying to convince a project to go open-source.

Actually, that makes me think of another possibility. What is a
software/OS getting open source take a really long time to get open
sourced? What if the promoter actually finally delivers a crippled
product after promising the moon? What if the final decision reached by
the promoter is a compromise between their need to be accepted by the
FOSS community and the comfort zone that their executives need for their
Imaginary Property?

noticeI am just theorizing below, and not suggesting that it is going to 
happen
in this case. /notice

What if Sun decides that it will never open their X server
and instead port the xorg code to their environment instead? What if for
every bit of software in Solaris's environment that people would 
actually like to see opensourced, they simply port an equivalent already
open sourced software, port it to their platform and release it as their
solution? While that would still make their final OS 100% FOSS, it
would be a mockery of their Open source efforts. Would you want such a
software to be promoted on the list?

In other words, when the future of the open source efforts of a closed
source project is not certain and can possibly end with a less than admirable
result, would you still spend years promoting it and ending up like an
indignant fool at the end?

- Sandip

-- 
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http://blog.sandipb.net

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[ilugd] Advocacy rules (was) Re: Belenix coming in July Issue of LFY

+++ Kenneth Gonsalves [23/06/08 13:13 +0530]:
of opensolaris is to be permitted on this list. Obviously advocacy of  
anything proprietary is a no no. So what is the stand on advocacy of  
something that is in the process of being opensourced?

That is an excellent question, Kenneth. My point of view (I am hoping
others can provide theirs, so that we can reach a consensus):

* We welcome all discussions of FOSS.
* We can tolerate announcements of FOSS OSes.
* However, at the end of the day this is a Linux list, so
   advocacy(especially repeated advocacy) of non-Linux OSes dilutes the
   purpose of this list and so it is less than desirable.
* Commercial intentions for advocacy of any solution - FOSS or not,
   should be made clear.
* Defending a commercial FOSS solution against misinformation doesn't
   constitute advocacy.
* We should be very careful against attempts to dilute the interpretation
   of  FOSS principles, or any misleading claims which does so. 
* Advocacy of non-FOSS is a no-no to me. Announcements showing progress
   of open sourcing is fine - advocacy is not.

What are other's take on these?

- Sandip



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Re: [ilugd] Advocacy rules

+++ Raj Mathur [23/06/08 14:08 +0530]:
While the name of the list (and the group) continue to remain ``Linux'', 
I believe that's more for historical reasons than because of any 
specific existing bias towards Linux as a FOSS platform.  IMO, as long 
as we keep your remaining points in view, we should continue to discuss 
and promote all FOSS solutions, regardless of whether they're 
Linux-based or not.

I think OS specific lists still have their purpose. Linux does things a
particular way. Linux distros do things in a particular way. Having a
bit of specialization in the list at atleast OS level helps.

Also, if you combine all FOSS OSes - *Linux, *BSD, *Solaris, *Hurd, the
amount of noise and cross advocacy might get too high to be useful. 

Even though the number of questions asked nowadays on this list are
lesser than what was being asked a few years back (whatever the reasons
might be), dilution/expansion of the support objective might put off the 
people who can potentially help out here.

That said, we should welcome folks from other FOSS OSes to talk out
here, and especially at our meets. But OS specific *lists* are
necessary.

Who knows, some time in the future people might forget what the acronym
ILUGD stands for, and only remembers the lists - ilugd-bsd@,
ilugd-opensolaris@, ilugd-linux@, etc. :-P

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Disk Clean up in kubuntu 7.10 ??

+++ vaibhav khatavkar [23/06/08 12:44 +0530]:
hi all,
   I have kubuntu 7.10  running on my system .. This is my filesytem ..



  How do I clean my disk... ??

I find Konqueror's File Size View to be absolutely invaluable when I
have disk space issues. The visual indication of disk space usage allows
me to zero down in an instant to the trouble spot.

To use,

A. Ensure Konqueror is using File Management view mode.
Settings - Load View profile - File Management

B. Move to the file system point you want to clean up. For cleaning up
your home directory it can be /home/$USER. For the entire disk, it would
be /.

C. Switch to the File Size view.
View - View Mode - File Size View.

- Sandip

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Re: [ilugd] Advocacy rules