Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Niyaz Ahmad lists.ni...@gmail.com wrote: Its really great to know things can happen as I thought. I will talk about these things in my office soon. I am grateful to you all for all your suggestions. Indeed but I don't want to dampen your enthu - please see below. Even if I am not able to implement this system, IIRC, the Indian Telecom authority does not allow PSTN gateways on a VoIP network. Things may have changed in recent months. From your OP it looks the PRIs channels are associated with local phone numbers. Please check with the relevant govt. dept. before you jump into a VoIP implementation --- and share whatever you find out. Best, -- Arun Khan ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On 03/21/2011 03:36 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Arun Khanknu...@gmail.com wrote: snip IIRC, the Indian Telecom authority does not allow PSTN gateways on a VoIP network. Things may have changed in recent months. From your OP it looks the PRIs channels are associated with local phone numbers. Please check with the relevant govt. dept. before you jump into a VoIP implementation --- and share whatever you find out. +1 You can go for official permission to integrate VOIP with the normal DOT lines/exchanges. Authorities charge heavily for it, but it is possible. Integrating VOIP with PRI/EPABX/PBX etc is illegal. Do you happen to have any references of it being illegal - specially having it as PBX? From what I'm aware, the primary concept behind the law is preventing toll bypass, which I don't think is happening in Niyaz's case as he mentioned the calls are incoming calls. Even if it was outgoing, it was happening via the PRI, so there also no toll bypass is happening. I don't recall which document it was, but I interpreted it as PBX being allowed, and if the company has multiple locations in India, then PBX over VPN was also permitted. I've always found VOIP in India be a gray area, and have never been able to figure out what's legal and what's not. Would be glad if you've some conclusive documents/links. Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Vivek Kapoor subs...@exain.com wrote: On 03/21/2011 03:36 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: Integrating VOIP with PRI/EPABX/PBX etc is illegal. Do you happen to have any references of it being illegal - specially having it as PBX? I am not an expert on what is legit. A stand alone PBX - no PSTN connection from *any* point in the VoIP network would be fine. A couple years ago, I had a lead for a VoIP project and the CEO of Enterux (www.enterux.com) told me clearly no PSTN hooks on the VoIP network. From what I'm aware, the primary concept behind the law is preventing toll bypass, which I don't think is happening in Niyaz's case as he mentioned the calls are incoming calls. Even if it was outgoing, it was happening via the PRI, so there also no toll bypass is happening. I don't recall which document it was, but I interpreted it as PBX being allowed, and if the company has multiple locations in India, then PBX over VPN was also permitted. You have a point re: incoming calls only in this case but it is better to get an official approval. I've always found VOIP in India be a gray area, and have never been able to figure out what's legal and what's not. Would be glad if you've some conclusive documents/links. TRAI would be the best place to get answers. -- Arun Khan ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On 03/21/2011 05:11 PM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: You have a point re: incoming calls only in this case but it is better to get an official approval. TRAI would be the best place to get answers. Well, it was more for academic reasons. From what I'm aware, there are a lot of ifs and buts in this case and various scenarios where it'd be legal and illegal. I am not even sure if TRAI holds any say in this except giving 'recommendations', and if they'd even entertain such a query. Anyway, I wasn't planning to setup a PBX or something, so maybe Niyaz can do the hard work and enlighten us :-) Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
I find Vivek's opinion most convincing (and why not?). and I am thankful to Sudhanwa also for bringing this important point into my notice. I will duly take care of this aspect before we take any step forward. On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Vivek Kapoor subs...@exain.com wrote: On 03/21/2011 05:11 PM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: You have a point re: incoming calls only in this case but it is better to get an official approval. TRAI would be the best place to get answers. Well, it was more for academic reasons. From what I'm aware, there are a lot of ifs and buts in this case and various scenarios where it'd be legal and illegal. I am not even sure if TRAI holds any say in this except giving 'recommendations', and if they'd even entertain such a query. Anyway, I wasn't planning to setup a PBX or something, so maybe Niyaz can do the hard work and enlighten us :-) Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
Hi, Basically what is illegal to do in terms of VoIP is to say have a PSTN/ISDN line plugged into your voip server and then lease that out to somebody over IP. In effect selling it as a DID number over IP. Most other cases are perfectly legal. There's tons of EPABX systems being sold from vendors like Simens, NEC, etc for years. You plug in an outside line, which could be PSTN or ISDN and distribute calls to your extensions (either through IP or TDM). For IP, these systems (Siemens for eg) come with some sort of a LAN card, which lets you plugin that massive EPABX box on to your LAN switch and route all incoming traffic to your softswitch (Asterisk for eg) and then distribute calls to extensions which maybe IP phones or softphones. You can go for official permission to integrate VOIP with the normal DOT lines/exchanges. Authorities charge heavily for it, but it is possible. There is NO offical permission required. You apply to a provider, who will take some documents from you and do whatever is required in terms of dealing with authorities like TRAI for whatever obligations there maybe. There is NO special license required and certainly NO extra fees. You just pay your provider, the same way you pay for your internet connection. Disclaimer: I'm no legal expert but I just got a PRI line from Airtel, so I've been through the 'process'. From what I'm aware, the primary concept behind the law is preventing toll bypass, which I don't think is happening in Niyaz's case as he mentioned the calls are incoming calls. Even if it was outgoing, it was happening via the PRI, so there also no toll bypass is happening. I don't recall which document it was, but I interpreted it as PBX being allowed, and if the company has multiple locations in India, then PBX over VPN was also permitted. My assessment too is exactly this. I've always found VOIP in India be a gray area, and have never been able to figure out what's legal and what's not. Would be glad if you've some conclusive documents/links. The best I could find was a document on TRAI's website, which was also pretty dated and worded in an almost self-conflicting manner. There really should be more official clarity on this. Regards Gurteshwar ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On Monday 21 Mar 2011, Gora Mohanty wrote: In other words, you need an air gap (the words from the document that defined this restriction) between your network and the rest of the world. As you say, connecting your own network to your PSTN is perfectly legal. I have always been confused about this air gap business: Is it then OK to have some RF transponder, e.g. WiFi (no idea if bandwidth requirements can be met), bridging the gap. Well, the air gap here conceptually precedes WiFi technologies and refers to a physical disconnect between two separate networks. If you bring WiFi, RF and microwaves into the picture, maybe we should be talking about a plastic/lead wall gap. In other words, the air gap essentially exists to prevent the organisation's PSTN/VoIP network interacting with a network belonging to any other entity, be it the Internet, another organisation or even an individual. Well, your first name is only one edit-distance away from Raja, so can I buy some spectrum? Paanch hazaar crore bhej do, tender jaldi khulwa denge. Regards, -- Raj -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
2011/3/21 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) r...@linux-delhi.org: On Monday 21 Mar 2011, Gora Mohanty wrote: In other words, you need an air gap (the words from the document that defined this restriction) between your network and the rest of the world. As you say, connecting your own network to your PSTN is perfectly legal. I have always been confused about this air gap business: Is it then OK to have some RF transponder, e.g. WiFi (no idea if bandwidth requirements can be met), bridging the gap. Well, the air gap here conceptually precedes WiFi technologies and refers to a physical disconnect between two separate networks. If you bring WiFi, RF and microwaves into the picture, maybe we should be talking about a plastic/lead wall gap. Ungles, plastic se kuchh nahin hota hai. Lead, yes. In other words, the air gap essentially exists to prevent the organisation's PSTN/VoIP network interacting with a network belonging to any other entity, be it the Internet, another organisation or even an individual. Yahbut, what does the letter of the law say? I should talk to some real lawyers about this. Well, your first name is only one edit-distance away from Raja, so can I buy some spectrum? Paanch hazaar crore bhej do, tender jaldi khulwa denge. I would do that, except I do not want to end up dead like other Raja ke bacche. Regards, Gora ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Gora Mohanty g...@mimirtech.com wrote: 2011/3/21 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) r...@linux-delhi.org: On Monday 21 Mar 2011, Gora Mohanty wrote: In other words, you need an air gap (the words from the document that defined this restriction) between your network and the rest of the world. As you say, connecting your own network to your PSTN is perfectly legal. In simple terms, you are not allowed to connect your VOIP network to the Telecom network/s (landlines,mobiles etc) You can use VOIP completely on your EPABX but can not integrate it with the other Telco lines. One of the major IT companies in Pune have complete VOIP phone network within the company. Almost all users have VOIP phone. For some key people, separate landline handsets connected to separate EPABX are alloted. Unfortunately, most of the companies using VOIP simply terminate it on the normal EPABX (typical Vonage scenerio) and then face problems later on if the Telco knows about it and takes action on it.. I have always been confused about this air gap business: Is it then OK to have some RF transponder, e.g. WiFi (no idea if bandwidth requirements can be met), bridging the gap. May be you can think of using CB radio frequencies. Not sure if it is legal to use for commercial purpose. that will be another discussion :-) Regards, -Sudhanwa ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
--- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:08:20 +0530 From: Raj Mathur ( ??? =?utf-8?b?IOCkruCkvuCkpeClgeCksA==?=) r...@linux-delhi.org Of course, the law itself exists purely to protect the erstwhile VSNL and similar organisations from unfair competition from the Internet. Unfair to whom, I wonder? VoIP is certainly fair to the population of India, who are currently needlessly being denied access to new paradigms of communication purely to protect some vested interests. Quite the norm, don't you think? OK, enough ranting, back to Asterisk hacking ;-) I'm a freeswitcher ;-) Message: 3 Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:18:10 +0530 From: Gora Mohanty g...@mimirtech.com Great, and very illuminating discussion thread, I must say. Maybe, it is time for an Asterix meetup :-) Count me in. Also there's this event called Convergence India happening from 24th to 26th. I was contemplating whether to attend, maybe just to pick up some first hand information if nothing more. Has anybody attended such a conference? Seems worthwhile. Regards Gurteshwar ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
Its really great to know things can happen as I thought. I will talk about these things in my office soon. I am grateful to you all for all your suggestions. Even if I am not able to implement this system, I would invite some professionals (some persons have shown their interest). But, its my deep desire that it should be implemented with open source/linux only. I have to wait until the fervours of holi festival cool off. Thanks to you all again. Niyaz ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
[ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
Hello Friends, I need your suggestion for the following scenario. An e-commerce company, largely in tourism, has its own in-house 24x7 customer support facility. It provides support to its customers through phone and email. Its a 30-seats call-center, having only in-bound calls. Presently they are using a Nortel based system which seems aging. They have a 32-channel Reliance MTNL PRI line (Reliance line is primary). I don't know about the PRI-Card/Server. The Nortel system provided a real time monitoring, call bargin and call recording facilities. Nortel system also provides detailed report of each call hitting their lines. The management demands a report based on these details on daily basis. Each call center agent uses a Nortel based IP phone through which he/she receives/mutes/unmutes/transfers calls. The call center usually receives 5000-6000 calls everyday, which may reach 9000 in peak seasons. I plan to propose an Asterisk based system for their call center. I have never implemented/installed Ansterisk based system. While contemplating Asterisk as a potential candidate, I assume: 1) The company would need to buy a linux supported PRI card (I guess its called FXO card). 2) Call-center agents can use Soft IP phones on a linux based pc which will allow call barging/transfer/recording. 3) Asterisk can provide facilities of call barging, call transfer, call recording and detailed report of each landing call. I have the following queries: 1) Are my assumptions correct? 2) What hardware (configuration) would be required for this kind of load? 3) Please suggest hardware requirement for call recording separately. 4) Is there any IT company in Delhi that can implement and provide 24x7 support to this Asterisk based setup. Thank you all, Niyaz ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:45:50 +0530, Niyaz Ahmad lists.ni...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, I need your suggestion for the following scenario. An e-commerce company, largely in tourism, has its own in-house 24x7 customer support facility. It provides support to its customers through phone and email. Its a 30-seats call-center, having only in-bound calls. Presently they are using a Nortel based system which seems aging. They have a 32-channel Reliance MTNL PRI line (Reliance line is primary). I don't know about the PRI-Card/Server. The Nortel system provided a real time monitoring, call bargin and call recording facilities. Nortel system also provides detailed report of each call hitting their lines. The management demands a report based on these details on daily basis. Each call center agent uses a Nortel based IP phone through which he/she receives/mutes/unmutes/transfers calls. The call center usually receives 5000-6000 calls everyday, which may reach 9000 in peak seasons. I plan to propose an Asterisk based system for their call center. I have never implemented/installed Ansterisk based system. Asterisk can easily handle the call volume you've mentioned. I'm not sure how about the IVR setup in your existing setup, but you can have a pretty advanced IVR also implemented so that the users can get self service instead of talking to an agent. But, if you've not implemented Asterisk earlier, and intend to do it yourself, then it would be pretty challenging. Not sure about the timelines you're looking at, but maybe you can first start out with a normal asterisk setup and use it as a PBX without any hardware card. That will give you some experience in Asterisk. Later you can work on integrating it with an E1/PRI card. One option is using something like AsteriskNOW - http://www.asterisk.org/downloads - which gives you a GUI. But to learn the intricacies, I'd always prefer you install from source and run it inside a virtual machine to test it. While contemplating Asterisk as a potential candidate, I assume: 1) The company would need to buy a linux supported PRI card (I guess its called FXO card). 2) Call-center agents can use Soft IP phones on a linux based pc which will allow call barging/transfer/recording. 3) Asterisk can provide facilities of call barging, call transfer, call recording and detailed report of each landing call. Your assumptions are correct. The card that you'd need to purchase would be http://www.digium.com/en/products/digital/ - try getting hardware Echo Cancellation in built unless your service provider recommends otherwise. Apart from Digium, Sangoma also sell these cards and they're considered more reliable. Recording capabilities can easily be integrated as well as transfer and barging. You'd need call queues in asterisk so that calls are distributed to agents smoothly and rest of them remain on hold (e.g. via IVR). Soft phones could be used; but usually hard phones are more reliable as they're not dependent on machine configuration and random hardware issues. You'd require a hard phone which supports SIP. Though you can start with a soft-phone too in the initial stages and see the response. On a Linux workstation, though there are a number of softphones available but many are not that reliable. I prefer Zoiper, but sometimes that also creates issues. The other option is X-Lite. For reporting, of course you'd require realtime which integrates asterisk with MySQL. You'd require that to be integrated with an Asterisk billing setup which provides reporting, or develop it yourself. You can have a look at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+billing I have the following queries: 1) Are my assumptions correct? 2) What hardware (configuration) would be required for this kind of load? 3) Please suggest hardware requirement for call recording separately. 4) Is there any IT company in Delhi that can implement and provide 24x7 support to this Asterisk based setup. I don't see the load to be significant. If you've 30 agents at any single point of time, a 2 port PRI/E1 card should do, as you can have an added IVR also setup (and of course 2 PRI lines). Otherwise you can go for a single port card. A fairly recent Xeon server with 10K RPM disk should do you well. Try not to run it in a virtualization environment for production use, though if properly implemented, that should also work. Usually in virtualization environment, the resources are over-committed and if multiple asterisk servers are at full load then it could create issues. Earlier there were timing issues depending of what virtualization software were you using due to which specifically conferencing didn't work well. These are not that prevalent as of now (tried kvm xen ; but not in a loaded production environment). For call recording, you can initially save on the same disk and move it to a different storage infrastructure (such as SATA) periodically via NFS (maybe at the end of
Re: [ilugd] Request for suggestion for setting up Asterisk based call-center
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:18:34 +0530, Vivek Kapoor subs...@exain.com wrote: On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:45:50 +0530, Niyaz Ahmad lists.ni...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, snip I plan to propose an Asterisk based system for their call center. I have never implemented/installed Ansterisk based system. snip http://voip-info.org is your friend. And of course, http://asteriskdocs.org/ - get the free PDF, Asterisk the Future of Telephony (2nd edition, for version 1.4). I just saw you can also pre-order the latest edition (3rd edition) - Asterisk: The Definitive Guide - too :-) Regards Vivek Kapoor http://exain.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
