Re: [imp] message selection in imp
Michael Menge wrote: We recently switched from horde 3.3 to horde 5.2, so the new dynamic interface is new to our users. On the one hand, there are always users that don't like the changes and want to keep the old. On the other hand, the reports indicate that the horde/imp did not work in the way they expected. Very similar situation here. With any luck, you might also have users that are so such much used to mails being spread out to pages that after the switch to dynamic mode, they mistakenly delete their whole Inbox because the special check all mails checkbox in the table heading really checks alle mails, even those not on the current page. At least, that's what we have been experiencing a couple of times. I've been thinking that it might be a good idea to have an option to define a threshold such that if one attempts to delete more than X mails at once, there is a warning like You are about to delete Y emails to once. Are you sure you want to continue?. However, I really don't know if that warning would actually be read. Maybe others can comment on that, too. I don't know if there is a majority of users that expected the selection to work different, as only few users will report such problems. But if it would be possible to change horde that it works in the way these users expect it to work without breaking how the the other users expect horde to work it could improve the GUI. But I don't know if it is possible or not. I don't really see a good way how this could be gracefully handled in the dynamic GUI. The next best solution I can think of would be to tackle the deselection problem I mentioned before, e.g. the pseudo-checkbox could be displayed using a different color when one is about to deselect a message. Jens smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- imp mailing list Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQ To unsubscribe, mail: imp-unsubscr...@lists.horde.org
Re: [imp] message selection in imp
Quoting Jens Wahnes wah...@uni-koeln.de: Michael Menge wrote: We recently switched from horde 3.3 to horde 5.2, so the new dynamic interface is new to our users. On the one hand, there are always users that don't like the changes and want to keep the old. On the other hand, the reports indicate that the horde/imp did not work in the way they expected. Very similar situation here. With any luck, you might also have users that are so such much used to mails being spread out to pages that after the switch to dynamic mode, they mistakenly delete their whole Inbox because the special check all mails checkbox in the table heading really checks alle mails, even those not on the current page. At least, that's what we have been experiencing a couple of times. Yes! We did expect it, and it happened quit a few times in the first week, but much less often now. And cyrus unexpunge feature is helping great keeping the work to restore the mail to a minimum. I've been thinking that it might be a good idea to have an option to define a threshold such that if one attempts to delete more than X mails at once, there is a warning like You are about to delete Y emails to once. Are you sure you want to continue?. However, I really don't know if that warning would actually be read. Maybe others can comment on that, too. I don't know if there is a majority of users that expected the selection to work different, as only few users will report such problems. But if it would be possible to change horde that it works in the way these users expect it to work without breaking how the the other users expect horde to work it could improve the GUI. But I don't know if it is possible or not. I don't really see a good way how this could be gracefully handled in the dynamic GUI. The next best solution I can think of would be to tackle the deselection problem I mentioned before, e.g. the pseudo-checkbox could be displayed using a different color when one is about to deselect a message. this should be possible with css M.MengeTel.: (49) 7071/29-70316 Universität Tübingen Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912 Zentrum für Datenverarbeitung mail: michael.me...@zdv.uni-tuebingen.de Wächterstraße 76 72074 Tübingen -- imp mailing list Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQ To unsubscribe, mail: imp-unsubscr...@lists.horde.org
Re: [imp] message selection in imp
On 07/20/2015 03:10 AM, Michael Menge wrote: Hi, some of our users don't like how the message selection in imp is currently handled. If you click on es message to view it, the current selection is reset and the message gets selected. The following three issues are reported. 1. If you want to delete/move multiple other mails you have to remember to deselect the message. 2. There is no way to view a mail without deselecting all selected mails. (e.g. you have selected some mails to delete them, and you want to check one mail if it should be deleted or not.) 3. If you miss the selection box, your selection is reset. One possible solution to these problems would be to make the message view independent from the message selections. Before I create a new feature request I would like to discuss the pro and cons, and check if such a feature request would have a chance to be accepted. Regards Michael M.MengeTel.: (49) 7071/29-70316 Universität Tübingen Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912 Zentrum für Datenverarbeitung mail: michael.me...@zdv.uni-tuebingen.de Wächterstraße 76 72074 Tübingen I have a couple of questions about how you would want the selection process to changed... 1. If you want to delete/move multiple other mails you have to remember to deselect the message. So, if you have a message selected and you want to select another to read, how would you do it? The expected behavior is that the selected email is the one that is viewed. So you want to be able to select a specific email and it NOT be displayed? In that case you would need another action to tell the system to actually display the selected email, roughly doubling the actions needed to read your email and that is NOT something we would support. Or perhaps I do not understand. ;-) 2. There is no way to view a mail without deselecting all selected mails. (e.g. you have selected some mails to delete them, and you want to check one mail if it should be deleted or not.) I simply delete the group above or below the email I have a question about and then select the email I want to read...two clicks...Every email client I have ever used works this way. I think changing Imp to require MORE user actions to manage their email is the wrong way to go. 3. If you miss the selection box, your selection is reset. This one really confused me...so I logged in and tried to reset a group I was selecting. I was at first unable to do what you describe as follows: 1. I selected an email by clicking anywhere on the row containing the Selection check box - From - Subject - Date - Size. 2. Then I held down the Shift key (Shift+select and Ctrl+select have been GUI standards for inclusive and exclusive list selections respectively for over 30 years) 3. Then tried to somehow reset the group by clicking anywhere in the email list and I could not loose the selection. Eventually I figured out that if you do NOT follow GUI standards to hold down the Shift key to indicate an inclusive multi-select, then the interface correctly sees your selection request as NOT a multi-select and behaves as it should. Again, I may not understand and if I miss your point then I apologize. Sincere regards, -- Andy Dorman -- imp mailing list Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQ To unsubscribe, mail: imp-unsubscr...@lists.horde.org
Re: [imp] message selection in imp
Quoting Andy Dorman ador...@ironicdesign.com: On 07/20/2015 03:10 AM, Michael Menge wrote: Hi, some of our users don't like how the message selection in imp is currently handled. If you click on es message to view it, the current selection is reset and the message gets selected. The following three issues are reported. 1. If you want to delete/move multiple other mails you have to remember to deselect the message. 2. There is no way to view a mail without deselecting all selected mails. (e.g. you have selected some mails to delete them, and you want to check one mail if it should be deleted or not.) 3. If you miss the selection box, your selection is reset. One possible solution to these problems would be to make the message view independent from the message selections. Before I create a new feature request I would like to discuss the pro and cons, and check if such a feature request would have a chance to be accepted. I have a couple of questions about how you would want the selection process to changed... 1. If you want to delete/move multiple other mails you have to remember to deselect the message. So, if you have a message selected and you want to select another to read, how would you do it? The expected behavior is that the selected email is the one that is viewed. So you want to be able to select a specific email and it NOT be displayed? In that case you would need another action to tell the system to actually display the selected email, roughly doubling the actions needed to read your email and that is NOT something we would support. Or perhaps I do not understand. ;-) I should explain my idea a bit more. If you click on the from, subject, date or size of es message the message is displayed like now, but the selection (checkbox) is not changed. You can change the selection by clicking on the ceckbox like now. If no message is selected but one is shown (preview) actions like delete should work on the shown message. 2. There is no way to view a mail without deselecting all selected mails. (e.g. you have selected some mails to delete them, and you want to check one mail if it should be deleted or not.) I simply delete the group above or below the email I have a question about and then select the email I want to read...two clicks...Every email client I have ever used works this way. I think changing Imp to require MORE user actions to manage their email is the wrong way to go. It think it woule require less actions as you can continue to select messages without deleting the first group 3. If you miss the selection box, your selection is reset. This one really confused me...so I logged in and tried to reset a group I was selecting. I was at first unable to do what you describe as follows: 1. I selected an email by clicking anywhere on the row containing the Selection check box - From - Subject - Date - Size. 2. Then I held down the Shift key (Shift+select and Ctrl+select have been GUI standards for inclusive and exclusive list selections respectively for over 30 years) 3. Then tried to somehow reset the group by clicking anywhere in the email list and I could not loose the selection. Eventually I figured out that if you do NOT follow GUI standards to hold down the Shift key to indicate an inclusive multi-select, then the interface correctly sees your selection request as NOT a multi-select and behaves as it should. Again, I may not understand and if I miss your point then I apologize. You can change the selection of mails by clicking on the ceckbox without pressing Shift or Ctrl. So issues 3 can be solved by always using the Ctrl key. But I guesse some of my users don't know the GUI standards or are too lazy to eep pressing Ctrl. regards Michael M.MengeTel.: (49) 7071/29-70316 Universität Tübingen Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912 Zentrum für Datenverarbeitung mail: michael.me...@zdv.uni-tuebingen.de Wächterstraße 76 72074 Tübingen -- imp mailing list Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQ To unsubscribe, mail: imp-unsubscr...@lists.horde.org
Re: [imp] message selection in imp
On Mo, Jul 20 2015, at 19:59:02 +0200, Michael Menge wrote: If no message is selected but one is shown (preview) actions like delete should work on the shown message. Maybe you can convince your users to double-click such a message first. When it is shown in a new window, the delete button inside that window always works on that one message. (If your users are in any way like ours, you'll have a few that are complaining very loudly, but can be taught how to do work around a problem. Then, of course, some don't want to work around a problem but insist that the program should behave the way they want.) You can change the selection of mails by clicking on the ceckbox without pressing Shift or Ctrl. So issues 3 can be solved by always using the Ctrl key. But I guesse some of my users don't know the GUI standards or are too lazy to eep pressing Ctrl. When setting these checkmarks, one thing to do is to watch more closely before clicking on the pseudo-checkbox. Only when the green box with the checkmark is displayed below the mouse cursor, one is in checkbox mode where clicking sets just this one checkbox and leaves all others as were. Otherwise, one is in SAA mode and needs to use the modifier keys (Shift and Control) to do selections. However, AFAICT, there is no guidance to tell whether or not one is in checkbox mode when removing checkmarks. Jens -- imp mailing list Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQ To unsubscribe, mail: imp-unsubscr...@lists.horde.org
