Yes Pankajji, the environmental factors might play a role in the morphology of this genus. From Singhji's statement and Rashidaji's pictures, its clear that this *Euphorbia antiquorum* have much variations. However the plant does not matches with *E.royleana*. What I had posted are young and old plants of the same species. Many thanks Pankajji, Singhji and Rashidaji for your informative links and inputs.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: > Thanks for sharing the pic and link. I understood what you meant. I just > imagine if those contractions and swelling are due to environmental factors > or that is a consistent character of this taxa? because that character is > also evident in image of the Lectotype. Undoubtedly Euphorbias are > complicated!! > Pankaj > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Here is my photograph where you can see both young and old branches in the >> same plant. >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Pankaj ji >>> Perhaps this image should clarify what I meant by straight and spirally >>> running wings. E. tortilis has spirally running and E. antiquorum straight. >>> >>> >>> http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=2860&osCsid=gm3v4gonrocedtfv9d3c9kqnn4 >>> >>> >>> <http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=2860&osCsid=gm3v4gonrocedtfv9d3c9kqnn4>If >>> you look carefully the type specimen cited by you also has straight wings. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the detail. I totally forgot about neriifolia. >>>> If you look at the second group of pics shared by Mr. Muthu, I think >>>> there are two species. Secondly, in the lectotype, the wings are not >>>> straight. I have seen both of these plants myself in gardens, and I always >>>> thought one of them to be hybrid. But you are more experienced so you must >>>> be having a better idea. >>>> Thanks again. >>>> Regards >>>> Pankaj >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Muthu ji >>>>> Your two sets of plants seem to be the same E. antiquorum , only the >>>>> matter of older and younger branches: All have distinctly 3-winged stems >>>>> with straight wings. >>>>> >>>>> Rashida ji your first three plants are E. antiquorum without any doubt, >>>>> but there is no reason to confuse the fourth photograph. It is without any >>>>> wings and with spines which are spirally arranged. It should be E. >>>>> neriifolia. This key from Flora of China should help in separating often >>>>> confused species >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4 >>>>> (3)<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=112355#KEY-1-3> >>>>> Stems >>>>> ± terete, leaves inserted on spirally arranged tubercles, spine shield >>>>> widely separated. 29 *E. >>>>> neriifolia*<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242321485> >>>>> +Stems winged or ribbed, leaves arranged along ribs, spines shields >>>>> often ± contiguous >>>>> (5)<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=112355#KEY-1-5> >>>>> 5 >>>>> (4)<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=112355#KEY-1-4> >>>>> Stem >>>>> 3(or 4)-winged, wings thin and irregularly dentate, 1-2 cm wide. 30 *E. >>>>> antiquorum*<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=220005106>+Stem >>>>> 5-7-angular, angles impressed and flat, irregularly repand-dentate. >>>>> >>>>> 31 *E. >>>>> royleana<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242321511> >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> *<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242321511> >>>>> ** >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Pankaj Kumar >>>>> <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Just wanted to add. Euphorbia is a very big group and one most >>>>>> interesting thing is, the genus Euphorbia has two type species, >>>>>> Euphorbia antiquorum and Euphirbia serrata. I never heard a genus with >>>>>> two types before. If anyone else knows then please do add to our >>>>>> information. >>>>>> Kew has a list of around over 5000 names of which only ~2000 names are >>>>>> accepted. That itself depicts the taxonomic complications here. >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Dear Muthu >>>>>> > Here is the lectotype of Euphorbia antiquorum L. >>>>>> > Lectotype : Herb. Clifford: 196, Euphorbia 1 (BM-000628669) >>>>>> > Designated by: Wijnands in Bot. Commelins : 97 (1983) >>>>>> > You can clearly make out which is the real Euphorbia antiquorum. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > There is another species called Euphorbia royleana. Kindly check >>>>>> your >>>>>> > plant with that description. I am not sure if this plant is found in >>>>>> > South India but it is supposed to be widespread from Pakistan to >>>>>> > Taiwan. I assume I have seen it in Uttarakhand as well as Rajasthan. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Regards >>>>>> > Pankaj >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar >>>>>> > <sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> >> From: Muthu Karthick <nmk....@gmail.com> >>>>>> >> Date: Feb 15, 12:08 pm >>>>>> >> Subject: thorny Euphorbia sp. >>>>>> >> To: efloraofindia >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Dear all, >>>>>> >> These plants are from the same locality. Kindly excuse me for >>>>>> mixing >>>>>> >> two >>>>>> >> species(?) in the same post. Please guide me in this morphology of >>>>>> * >>>>>> >> Euphorbia* spp. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The previous plant posted have straight grooves and not that of *E. >>>>>> >> antiquorum*. Is this any physical variation or totally the species >>>>>> is >>>>>> >> different? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Muthu Karthick <nmk....@gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>> >>> Thank you all, and Pardeshiji cleared my doubt on inflorescence >>>>>> colour. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Usha Desai <ushande...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> E. antqourum....nice picture of Praying mantis in the last >>>>>> picture,preying >>>>>> >>>> for prey[?] >>>>>> >>>> Thanks for sharing.E antquorum is flowering all over Mumbai. >>>>>> >>>> Usha Desai >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> On 1 February 2011 20:11, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>> *Euphorbia antiquorum* >>>>>> >>>>> ***Tanay >>>>>> >>>>> * >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 6:18 AM, Pardeshi S. < >>>>>> satishparde...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> the young inflorescence appears green. once the ivary is formed >>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> would impart the reddish/ purplish tone. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Satish Pardeshi >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 1, 4:31 pm, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > Muthu ji >>>>>> >>>>>> > I would go with E. antiquurum, because the angles are >>>>>> distinctly >>>>>> >>>>>> 3-winged, >>>>>> >>>>>> > the wings are running almost straight. In E. tortilis the >>>>>> angles are >>>>>> >>>>>> not >>>>>> >>>>>> > that promently winged, they are lobulate with stout paired >>>>>> spines on >>>>>> >>>>>> lobes, >>>>>> >>>>>> > and most importantly the angles are spirally twisted like we >>>>>> have in >>>>>> >>>>>> E. >>>>>> >>>>>> > neriifolia where of course the angles are not that >>>>>> prominents, and >>>>>> >>>>>> there are >>>>>> >>>>>> > 5 spiral rows. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> >>>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> >>>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> >>>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> >>>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> >>>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Muthu Karthick < >>>>>> nmk....@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> > > descriptions match this thorny shrub as *Euphorbia >>>>>> antiquorum*. I >>>>>> >>>>>> suspect >>>>>> >>>>>> > > this to be a different species owing to the colour of >>>>>> flowers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please >>>>>> >>>>>> > > help to solve this. >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Could this be *E. tortilis*? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Location: Sathyamangalam wls; 300 msl >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Date: 15 Dec 2010 >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> > > -- >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Muthu Karthick, N >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Junior Research Fellow >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Care Earth Trust >>>>>> >>>>>> > > #15, second main road, >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Thillai ganga nagar, >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Chennai - 600 061 >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Mob: 09626833911 >>>>>> >>>>>> > >www.careearthtrust.org >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> *Tanay Bose* >>>>>> >>>>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>>> >>>>> Department of Botany. >>>>>> >>>>> University of British Columbia . >>>>>> >>>>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>>> >>>>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>>> >>>>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>>> >>>>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>>> >>>>> 604-822-6089 (Fax) >>>>>> >>>>> ta...@interchange.ubc.ca >>>>>> >>>>> *Webpages:* >>>>>> >>>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/mberbee.html >>>>>> >>>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/gradstud.html >>>>>> >>>>>https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>> >>> Muthu Karthick, N >>>>>> >>> Junior Research Fellow >>>>>> >>> Care Earth Trust >>>>>> >>> #15, second main road, >>>>>> >>> Thillai ganga nagar, >>>>>> >>> Chennai - 600 061 >>>>>> >>> Mob: 09626833911 >>>>>> >>>www.careearthtrust.org >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -- >>>>>> >> Muthu Karthick, N >>>>>> >> Care Earth Trust >>>>>> >> #15, second main road, >>>>>> >> Thillai ganga nagar, >>>>>> >> Chennai - 600 061 >>>>>> >> Mob: 0091 96268 33911www.careearthtrust.org >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> 360.gif >>>>>> >> < 1KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> E antiquorum (3).jpg >>>>>> >> 193KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a 599.jpg >>>>>> >> 142KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a 600.jpg >>>>>> >> 149KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> b 235.jpg >>>>>> >> 193KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> b 236.jpg >>>>>> >> 237KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> b 237.jpg >>>>>> >> 179KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> E antiquorum.jpg >>>>>> >> 206KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> E antiquorum (1).jpg >>>>>> >> 212KViewDownload >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> E antiquorum (2).jpg >>>>>> >> 210KViewDownload >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > *********************************************** >>>>>> > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>>> > Research Associate >>>>>> > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>>> > Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>>> > Wildlife Institute of India >>>>>> > Post Box # 18 >>>>>> > Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *********************************************** >>>>>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>>> Research Associate >>>>>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>>> Wildlife Institute of India >>>>>> Post Box # 18 >>>>>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *********************************************** >>>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>> >>>> >>>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>> Research Associate >>>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>>> Wildlife Institute of India >>>> Post Box # 18 >>>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > *********************************************** > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" > > > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) > Research Associate > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project > Department of Habitat Ecology > Wildlife Institute of India > Post Box # 18 > Dehradun - 248001, India > -- Muthu Karthick, N Care Earth Trust #15, second main road, Thillai ganga nagar, Chennai - 600 061 Mob: 0091 96268 33911 www.careearthtrust.org
