Re: In preparation of Cyrus IMAP 2.5: autoconf and automake

[Bron Gondwana]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 12:03:31PM -0700, Andrew Morgan wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012, Jeroen van Meeuwen (Kolab Systems) wrote:
> 
> > The canonical build process we think applies, generally speaking, is:
> >
> >  $ autoreconf -v
> >  $ ./configure [your-options]
> >  $ make
> >
> > This process currently requires autoconf >= 2.67.
> >
> > We would appreciate you let us know whether or not such process works for 
> > you,
> > preferrably though Bugzilla (please use product 'Cyrus IMAP' and component
> > 'Distribution').
> 
> Why is autoreconf/autoconf required?
> 
> I have been building Cyrus from source for many years.  The tarballs 
> already come with the configure script, so I have never needed to install 
> the autoconf package before.

We'll probably keep shipping releases with the configure script - but if you're
building from git you need to do the whole dance.

Bron.

Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: User tags lost

[Bron Gondwana]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 02:56:06PM -0400, Tom Plancon wrote:
> On 5/18/2012 4:45 PM, Bron Gondwana wrote:
> >On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:23:53AM -0400, Tom Plancon wrote:
> >>Hello,
> >>I'm not sure this is the list to post my issue but thought I'd give
> >>it a shot.
> >>We're running Cyrus IMAPD 3.3.16 on a CentOS 6 server for about 50
> >  (2.3.16 I assume)
> >
> >>users. All users have Thunderbird 11-12 as their email client. A
> >>couple of the users rely on "tagging" email in Tbird heavily.
> >>Periodically, they lose the tags they have placed for no apparent
> >>reason. They are there for a few days/weeks, then gone.
> >>Is this something that could be happening in Cyrus, or is it
> >>strictly a Thunderbird issue?
> >>Any input is appreciated! Thanks!
> >Possibly a Cyrus thing.  Is there anything in syslog?  It sounds
> >like you're losing the cyrus.header files, which is where the tag
> >names are stored.
> >
> >Bron.
> Bron,
> Thanks for the reply. Yes I am using 2.3.16!
> I believe all of the Cyrus logging is into /var/log/maillog. I
> inherited this config. What would I look for in maillog?

IOERROR is a good start.

Bron.

Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: In preparation of Cyrus IMAP 2.5: autoconf and automake

[Andrew Morgan]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012, Jeroen van Meeuwen (Kolab Systems) wrote:

> The canonical build process we think applies, generally speaking, is:
>
>  $ autoreconf -v
>  $ ./configure [your-options]
>  $ make
>
> This process currently requires autoconf >= 2.67.
>
> We would appreciate you let us know whether or not such process works for you,
> preferrably though Bugzilla (please use product 'Cyrus IMAP' and component
> 'Distribution').

Why is autoreconf/autoconf required?

I have been building Cyrus from source for many years.  The tarballs 
already come with the configure script, so I have never needed to install 
the autoconf package before.

Andy

Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: User tags lost

[Tom Plancon]

On 5/18/2012 4:45 PM, Bron Gondwana wrote:

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:23:53AM -0400, Tom Plancon wrote:

Hello,
I'm not sure this is the list to post my issue but thought I'd give
it a shot.
We're running Cyrus IMAPD 3.3.16 on a CentOS 6 server for about 50

  (2.3.16 I assume)


users. All users have Thunderbird 11-12 as their email client. A
couple of the users rely on "tagging" email in Tbird heavily.
Periodically, they lose the tags they have placed for no apparent
reason. They are there for a few days/weeks, then gone.
Is this something that could be happening in Cyrus, or is it
strictly a Thunderbird issue?
Any input is appreciated! Thanks!

Possibly a Cyrus thing.  Is there anything in syslog?  It sounds
like you're losing the cyrus.header files, which is where the tag
names are stored.

Bron.

Bron,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I am using 2.3.16!
I believe all of the Cyrus logging is into /var/log/maillog. I inherited 
this config. What would I look for in maillog?

Thanks.

--
Thomas E. Plancon
CAD/IS Manager

B K A Architects, Inc.
142 Crescent Street
Brockton, MA 02302

tel: 508 . 583 . 5603 ext 313
fax: 508 . 584 . 2914
www.bkaarchitects.com 

Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: unsubscribe

[Bron Gondwana]

On Mon, May 21, 2012, at 02:27 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> > Short of reaching down through the screen and physically punching you in
> > the face, I can't see how in particular we are supposed to account for the
> > deficiencies of the client you choose to use.
> 
> Thanks for your considered contribution. It's nice to know we're in such good 
> company on this list. 

No worries.  I realise the law is often an ass

> 
> It's the law in the EU. There's an amazingly good reason for it. It's best if 
> email professionals understand (a) the law, and (b) what is meant by "easy to 
> use" with respect to email.

There is.  And I would love to see you stand up in a court of law
and explain why you thought this mailing list was breaking it.

Bron ( P.S. [citation needed]  Please point to a legal opinion which is not your
   own which states that a standards compliant List-Unsubscribe header is 
not
   sufficient.  Bonus points if it's been tested in court )
-- 
  Bron Gondwana
  br...@fastmail.fm


Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: unsubscribe

[Ian Eiloart]

On 21 May 2012, at 15:08, Bron Gondwana wrote:
> On Mon, May 21, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>> As long as most users don't have easy access to the List-Unsubscribe header 
>> (Outlook, Apple Mail, etc), then the List-Unsubscribe header can't satisfy 
>> the legal requirements of the UK, and most EU countries: that marketing (and 
>> this list markets Cyrus mail - at least in the meaning of the legislation) 
>> emails must carry an easy to use address for unsubscribing.
> 
> Man - I'm in the EU, and I'm firmly of the opinion "feck off protolawyer".
> 
> This is a technical discussion list for users of the software, and you
> signed up for it.  It's using THE standard mechanism for detailing how
> to unsubscribe.
> 
> Short of reaching down through the screen and physically punching you in
> the face, I can't see how in particular we are supposed to account for the
> deficiencies of the client you choose to use.

Thanks for your considered contribution. It's nice to know we're in such good 
company on this list. 

> Bron ( somewhat annoyed that there's no nice web management interface for the
>   list unless you're a CMU user, but still )




It's the law in the EU. There's an amazingly good reason for it. It's best if 
email professionals understand (a) the law, and (b) what is meant by "easy to 
use" with respect to email.

-- 
Ian Eiloart
Postmaster, University of Sussex
+44 (0) 1273 87-3148



Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: unsubscribe

[Bron Gondwana]

On Mon, May 21, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> As long as most users don't have easy access to the List-Unsubscribe header 
> (Outlook, Apple Mail, etc), then the List-Unsubscribe header can't satisfy 
> the legal requirements of the UK, and most EU countries: that marketing (and 
> this list markets Cyrus mail - at least in the meaning of the legislation) 
> emails must carry an easy to use address for unsubscribing.

Man - I'm in the EU, and I'm firmly of the opinion "feck off protolawyer".

This is a technical discussion list for users of the software, and you
signed up for it.  It's using THE standard mechanism for detailing how
to unsubscribe.

Short of reaching down through the screen and physically punching you in
the face, I can't see how in particular we are supposed to account for the
deficiencies of the client you choose to use.

Bron ( somewhat annoyed that there's no nice web management interface for the
   list unless you're a CMU user, but still )
-- 
  Bron Gondwana
  br...@fastmail.fm


Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: unsubscribe

[Ian Eiloart]

On 21 May 2012, at 12:49, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-05-21 at 11:32 +, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>> On 18 May 2012, at 14:45, Adrian Kovacs wrote
>> Using the mechansims described in the List-Unsubscribe header:
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> Having said that, European Union countries usually require that the
>> mechanisms be easy to use. In my view, that means that they should be
>> described in the message footer (not hidden in a header). The more
>> obvious paths from the URLs listed in the footer require cyrus.edu
>> accounts for unsubscription.
> 
> This behavior has been *standard* for decades.  A good mail client even
> provides an option - I view a message from the Cyrus list in Evolution
> and Message -> Maillist -> Unsubscribe is right there as an option.
> 
> You are using Exchange [ + Outlook? ];  so I'm pretty sure that option
> is there on your screen somewhere.

Apple Mail, actually. But, it doesn't matter. Neither displays the 
List-Unsubscribe header by default, or presents the unsubscribe options. And, I 
doubt that most users would find the option in a menu; it would have to be 
displayed as a button in the default display. Ideally, such a button would be 
displayed with the message headers.

As long as most users don't have easy access to the List-Unsubscribe header 
(Outlook, Apple Mail, etc), then the List-Unsubscribe header can't satisfy the 
legal requirements of the UK, and most EU countries: that marketing (and this 
list markets Cyrus mail - at least in the meaning of the legislation) emails 
must carry an easy to use address for unsubscribing.

> 
>> The argument that list members ought to be able to find the
>> List-Unsubscribe header because they're email professionals doesn't
>> wash.
> 
> You mail client should recognize the presence of this header and provide
> an option.  

Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately, the most popular clients don't.

>  And looking at message headers is hardly a 'profession'
> level action.


I'm afraid it is. I'm forever having to teach people that there are more than 
four headers in an email. Most people just don't know the others are there.

-- 
Ian Eiloart
Postmaster, University of Sussex
+44 (0) 1273 87-3148



Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: unsubscribe

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2012-05-21 at 11:32 +, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> On 18 May 2012, at 14:45, Adrian Kovacs wrote
> Using the mechansims described in the List-Unsubscribe header:
> List-Unsubscribe: 
> Having said that, European Union countries usually require that the
> mechanisms be easy to use. In my view, that means that they should be
> described in the message footer (not hidden in a header). The more
> obvious paths from the URLs listed in the footer require cyrus.edu
> accounts for unsubscription.

This behavior has been *standard* for decades.  A good mail client even
provides an option - I view a message from the Cyrus list in Evolution
and Message -> Maillist -> Unsubscribe is right there as an option.

You are using Exchange [ + Outlook? ];  so I'm pretty sure that option
is there on your screen somewhere.

> The argument that list members ought to be able to find the
> List-Unsubscribe header because they're email professionals doesn't
> wash.

You mail client should recognize the presence of this header and provide
an option.   And looking at message headers is hardly a 'profession'
level action.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/

Re: unsubscribe

[Ian Eiloart]

On 18 May 2012, at 14:45, Adrian Kovacs wrote:
> hi,
> 
> sorry, how can i unsubscribe from this list?
> 
> ~
> a


Using the mechansims described in the List-Unsubscribe header:

List-Unsubscribe:   
,  


Having said that, European Union countries usually require that the mechanisms 
be easy to use. In my view, that means that they should be described in the 
message footer (not hidden in a header). The more obvious paths from the URLs 
listed in the footer require cyrus.edu accounts for unsubscription.

The argument that list members ought to be able to find the List-Unsubscribe 
header because they're email professionals doesn't wash. It can't be presumed 
that they all are, and those that aren't will be wanting to unsubscribe.

-- 
Ian Eiloart
Postmaster, University of Sussex
+44 (0) 1273 87-3148



Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/