Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
Am 17.09.2015 16:18, schrieb Vladislav Kurz: On Thursday 17 of September 2015 you wrote: I would consider how many users you have connected as well as each type of device. If you are running some type of AS setup, each device will maintain an open connection and cause a process to happen. How many users? What do you mean by AS setup? Autonomous system? nothing like that. Clients use thunderbird, outlook, mobile phones, webmail. I think Paul mean AS = Active Sync. I don't know the exact number of imap users, because some users still use pop3 (which has short-lived connections). Currently there are about 200 imapd processes. (Plus another 60 "imapd -s"). I think every client is going to be turned off, rebooted, or out of battery from time to time. So I feel like there are some processes "forgotten", keeping the connection with nobody on the other end. I think this too. Yesterday afternoon I changed the imapd.conf configoption "tcp_keepalive" from 0 to 1. The number of imapd processes dropped from 2800 ( yesterday 7:00am ) to arround 1000 ( today 7:00am ). When I understand tcp keepalive correctly, the systems now checks from time to time ( every 2 hours by default on linux systems ) with an ACK package if the tcp connection endpoint is still reachable. I am neither an cyrus nor an tcp/ip expert, so a comment from an expert would be nice. Regards, Konrad -- Hochschule Konstanz - Rechenzentrum Konrad Mauz km...@htwg-konstanz.de Tel: +497531206-472, Fax: -153 http://www.htwg-konstanz.de/rz.html smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: cyradm: perl: symbol lookup error?
That could be easily tested with "lam " COMMAND.
On 2015-09-18 03:40, Patrick Goetz wrote:
> Interesting. When I use cyradm to set up a new account, I always
> execute 2 commands:
>
>cyradm --user administrator localhost
>
>localhost> cm user/daffyduck
localhost> lam user/daffyduck
>localhost> sam user/daffyduck daffyduck write
>
> Does this mean that the second command has been superfluous all along
> and that these are the permissions that are created by default anyway?
>
> I.e. it would be sufficient to just do this?
>
>localhost> cm user/daffyduck
>
>
> On 09/17/2015 03:03 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
>> On 09/17/2015 04:07 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote:
>>> Thanks. I'm just now getting around to looking at this script. This
>>> creates a mailbox, but don't you also need to set access privileges
>>> for
>>> the user associated with this mailbox?
>>
>> Only if you are going to change the default rights. User will have
>> access by default.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/16/2015 12:00 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
We use this simple perl script to add users. Fill in appropriate
username and password.
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
use File::Basename;
use IMAP::Admin;
if ( 0 == scalar( @ARGV ) ) {
die( "\n Usuage: $0 userid\n");
}
$mailbox = "user.$ARGV[0]";
$username = "";
$password = "";
# Set this to the hostname of your IMAP server
$IMAPSERVER = "localhost";
#
# Main Code
#
# Login to IMAP server
$imap = IMAP::Admin->new('Server' => $IMAPSERVER,
'Login' => $username,
'Password' => $password,) || die "no go
$!
!";
print "Login: " . $imap->error . "\n";
# Add user
$add = $imap->create("$mailbox");
if ($add != 0) {
print "Error: " . $imap->error . "\n";
}
else {
print "$ARGV[0] added.\n";
}
# Close connection
$imap->close;
exit;
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: cyradm: perl: symbol lookup error?
Dear Patrick,
Yes, would be sufficient just the cm command.
Take a look below.
localhost> cm user/miguel
localhost> lam user/miguel
miguel lrswipkxtecda
As you can see the lam command which list the mailbox permissions shows full
permissions in this example.
Bye
--
Miguel Mucio Santos Moreira
Analista - LPIC 1 Linux Professional Institute Certified
GRE - Gerência de Redes
(31)3339-1401
PRODEMGE - Companhia de Tecnologia da Informação do Estado de Minas Gerais
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Em 17/09/2015 17:40:01, Patrick Goetz escreveu:
> Interesting. When I use cyradm to set up a new account, I always
execute 2 commands:
cyradm --user administrator localhost
localhost> cm user/daffyduck
localhost> sam user/daffyduck daffyduck write
Does this mean that the second command has been superfluous all along
and that these are the permissions that are created by default anyway?
I.e. it would be sufficient to just do this?
localhost> cm user/daffyduck
On 09/17/2015 03:03 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
> On 09/17/2015 04:07 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote:
>> Thanks. I'm just now getting around to looking at this script. This
>> creates a mailbox, but don't you also need to set access privileges for
>> the user associated with this mailbox?
>
> Only if you are going to change the default rights. User will have
> access by default.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/16/2015 12:00 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
>>>
>>> We use this simple perl script to add users. Fill in appropriate
>>> username and password.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>>> #
>>> use File::Basename;
>>> use IMAP::Admin;
>>>
>>> if ( 0 == scalar( @ARGV ) ) {
>>> die( "\n Usuage: $0 userid\n");
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> $mailbox = "user.$ARGV[0]";
>>> $username = "";
>>> $password = "";
>>>
>>> # Set this to the hostname of your IMAP server
>>> $IMAPSERVER = "localhost";
>>> #
>>>
>>> # Main Code
>>> #
>>> # Login to IMAP server
>>> $imap = IMAP::Admin->new('Server' => $IMAPSERVER,
>>>'Login' => $username,
>>>'Password' => $password,) || die "no go $!
>>> !";
>>>
>>> print "Login: " . $imap->error . "\n";
>>>
>>> # Add user
>>> $add = $imap->create("$mailbox");
>>>
>>> if ($add != 0) {
>>> print "Error: " . $imap->error . "\n";
>>> }
>>> else {
>>> print "$ARGV[0] added.\n";
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> # Close connection
>>> $imap->close;
>>> exit;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cyrus Home Page: > http://www.cyrusimap.org/>
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>>> > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus>
>>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: cyradm: perl: symbol lookup error?
Thanks for this suggestion. I need to tread lightly on a production system, but will bite the bullet and upgrade tp cyrus to 2.5.4 on my test server soon. If this doesn't work, I'll recompile the perl module, as you suggest. On 09/16/2015 04:48 PM, Robert Norris wrote: > On Thu, 17 Sep 2015, at 02:33 AM, Patrick Goetz wrote: >> pgoetz@www:~$ cyradm --user administrator localhost >> perl: symbol lookup error: >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/auto/Cyrus/IMAP/IMAP.so: undefined symbol: >> Perl_xs_apiversion_bootcheck >> I'm running Arch linux, which aggressively updates software packages. >> Apparently some Perl upgrade broke cyradm? > Perl modules aren't binary-compatible across major releases (the second > number, 22 in your case - Perl versioning is a little odd). If you > recompile Cyrus::IMAP against the new Perl it should all just come back > to life. I haven't done that in isolation before but perl/imap/README > looks correct from what I know of Cyrus and Perl. Give it a try. > > Rob N. > > > > Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ > List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ > To Unsubscribe: > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus > Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: cyradm: perl: symbol lookup error?
Interesting. When I use cyradm to set up a new account, I always
execute 2 commands:
cyradm --user administrator localhost
localhost> cm user/daffyduck
localhost> sam user/daffyduck daffyduck write
Does this mean that the second command has been superfluous all along
and that these are the permissions that are created by default anyway?
I.e. it would be sufficient to just do this?
localhost> cm user/daffyduck
On 09/17/2015 03:03 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
> On 09/17/2015 04:07 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote:
>> Thanks. I'm just now getting around to looking at this script. This
>> creates a mailbox, but don't you also need to set access privileges for
>> the user associated with this mailbox?
>
> Only if you are going to change the default rights. User will have
> access by default.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/16/2015 12:00 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
>>>
>>> We use this simple perl script to add users. Fill in appropriate
>>> username and password.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>>> #
>>> use File::Basename;
>>> use IMAP::Admin;
>>>
>>> if ( 0 == scalar( @ARGV ) ) {
>>> die( "\n Usuage: $0 userid\n");
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> $mailbox = "user.$ARGV[0]";
>>> $username = "";
>>> $password = "";
>>>
>>> # Set this to the hostname of your IMAP server
>>> $IMAPSERVER = "localhost";
>>> #
>>>
>>> # Main Code
>>> #
>>> # Login to IMAP server
>>> $imap = IMAP::Admin->new('Server' => $IMAPSERVER,
>>>'Login' => $username,
>>>'Password' => $password,) || die "no go $!
>>> !";
>>>
>>> print "Login: " . $imap->error . "\n";
>>>
>>> # Add user
>>> $add = $imap->create("$mailbox");
>>>
>>> if ($add != 0) {
>>> print "Error: " . $imap->error . "\n";
>>> }
>>> else {
>>> print "$ARGV[0] added.\n";
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> # Close connection
>>> $imap->close;
>>> exit;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
>>> List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
>>> To Unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
>>>
>>
>> Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
>> List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
>> To Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: cyradm: perl: symbol lookup error?
On 09/17/2015 04:07 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote:
Thanks. I'm just now getting around to looking at this script. This
creates a mailbox, but don't you also need to set access privileges for
the user associated with this mailbox?
Only if you are going to change the default rights. User will have
access by default.
On 09/16/2015 12:00 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
We use this simple perl script to add users. Fill in appropriate
username and password.
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
use File::Basename;
use IMAP::Admin;
if ( 0 == scalar( @ARGV ) ) {
die( "\n Usuage: $0 userid\n");
}
$mailbox = "user.$ARGV[0]";
$username = "";
$password = "";
# Set this to the hostname of your IMAP server
$IMAPSERVER = "localhost";
#
# Main Code
#
# Login to IMAP server
$imap = IMAP::Admin->new('Server' => $IMAPSERVER,
'Login' => $username,
'Password' => $password,) || die "no go $! !";
print "Login: " . $imap->error . "\n";
# Add user
$add = $imap->create("$mailbox");
if ($add != 0) {
print "Error: " . $imap->error . "\n";
}
else {
print "$ARGV[0] added.\n";
}
# Close connection
$imap->close;
exit;
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Re: cyradm: perl: symbol lookup error?
Thanks. I'm just now getting around to looking at this script. This
creates a mailbox, but don't you also need to set access privileges for
the user associated with this mailbox?
On 09/16/2015 12:00 PM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
>
> We use this simple perl script to add users. Fill in appropriate
> username and password.
>
>
>
>
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> #
> use File::Basename;
> use IMAP::Admin;
>
> if ( 0 == scalar( @ARGV ) ) {
>die( "\n Usuage: $0 userid\n");
> }
>
>
> $mailbox = "user.$ARGV[0]";
> $username = "";
> $password = "";
>
> # Set this to the hostname of your IMAP server
> $IMAPSERVER = "localhost";
> #
>
> # Main Code
> #
> # Login to IMAP server
> $imap = IMAP::Admin->new('Server' => $IMAPSERVER,
> 'Login' => $username,
> 'Password' => $password,) || die "no go $! !";
>
> print "Login: " . $imap->error . "\n";
>
> # Add user
> $add = $imap->create("$mailbox");
>
> if ($add != 0) {
> print "Error: " . $imap->error . "\n";
> }
> else {
> print "$ARGV[0] added.\n";
> }
>
>
> # Close connection
> $imap->close;
> exit;
>
>
>
> Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
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Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
On Thursday 17 of September 2015 you wrote: > I would consider how many users you have connected as well as each type of > device. If you are running some type of AS setup, each device will > maintain an open connection and cause a process to happen. How many users? What do you mean by AS setup? Autonomous system? nothing like that. Clients use thunderbird, outlook, mobile phones, webmail. I don't know the exact number of imap users, because some users still use pop3 (which has short-lived connections). Currently there are about 200 imapd processes. (Plus another 60 "imapd -s"). I think every client is going to be turned off, rebooted, or out of battery from time to time. So I feel like there are some processes "forgotten", keeping the connection with nobody on the other end. -- S pozdravem Vladislav Kurz Centrála: Celní 17/5, 63900 Brno, CZ Web: http://www.webstep.net E-Mail: i...@webstep.net Tel: 840-840-700, +420.548214711 Obchodní podmínky: https://zkrat.to/op Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
I would consider how many users you have connected as well as each type of device. If you are running some type of AS setup, each device will maintain an open connection and cause a process to happen. How many users? - Paul > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Vladislav Kurz > wrote: > >> On Thursday 17 of September 2015 Niels Dettenbach wrote: >> >> Am Donnerstag, 17. September 2015, 14:19:42 schrieb Sebastian Hagedorn: Cyrus is running an a recently updated Ubuntu 14.04. lts server. Is there anything I can do? >>> >>> we are still on 2.4.x, but we had a similar problem that we resolved this >>> >>> way: >>> imap cmd="imapd -U 10" listen="imap.uni-koeln.de:imap" ... >> >> ...interesting to see that this happens on other Ubuntu systems as well - i >> saw this on some Ubuntu systems (only on Ubuntu setups) in the past too, >> without havin the option to dig in deeper what's happen there. >> >> If someone has further investigation results or experiences about this, >> this would be interesting... > > I have set "imapd -U 30", maxchild=400, and I see gradual grow up of process > numbers. Some instances are very long lived, (almost 3 months). In > /var/lib/cyrus/procs I can see that some users have about a dozen of > connections to the same mailbox/folder (trash is a favorite). And also quite > a > lot connections with no user associated. Thus from time to time (when I get > above 350 processes), I kill imapd processes with no user, or with duplicates > (same IP, same user). I just feel as if the -U option does not work well. > > Just to note, the number of processes is decreasing during night, but the max > and min values grow each day. I have a graph if someone is interested. > > -- > Best Regards >Vladislav Kurz > > Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ > List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ > To Unsubscribe: > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
On Thursday 17 of September 2015 Niels Dettenbach wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 17. September 2015, 14:19:42 schrieb Sebastian Hagedorn: > > > Cyrus is running an a recently updated Ubuntu 14.04. lts server. Is > > > there anything I can do? > > > > we are still on 2.4.x, but we had a similar problem that we resolved this > > > > way: > > imap cmd="imapd -U 10" listen="imap.uni-koeln.de:imap" ... > > ...interesting to see that this happens on other Ubuntu systems as well - i > saw this on some Ubuntu systems (only on Ubuntu setups) in the past too, > without havin the option to dig in deeper what's happen there. > > If someone has further investigation results or experiences about this, > this would be interesting... I have set "imapd -U 30", maxchild=400, and I see gradual grow up of process numbers. Some instances are very long lived, (almost 3 months). In /var/lib/cyrus/procs I can see that some users have about a dozen of connections to the same mailbox/folder (trash is a favorite). And also quite a lot connections with no user associated. Thus from time to time (when I get above 350 processes), I kill imapd processes with no user, or with duplicates (same IP, same user). I just feel as if the -U option does not work well. Just to note, the number of processes is decreasing during night, but the max and min values grow each day. I have a graph if someone is interested. -- Best Regards Vladislav Kurz Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
--On 17. September 2015 15:09:45 +0200 Niels Dettenbach wrote: Am Donnerstag, 17. September 2015, 14:19:42 schrieb Sebastian Hagedorn: > Cyrus is running an a recently updated Ubuntu 14.04. lts server. Is > there anything I can do? we are still on 2.4.x, but we had a similar problem that we resolved this way: imap cmd="imapd -U 10" listen="imap.uni-koeln.de:imap" ... ...interesting to see that this happens on other Ubuntu systems as well - i saw this on some Ubuntu systems (only on Ubuntu setups) in the past too, without havin the option to dig in deeper what's happen there. To be clear: we are not on Ubuntu. We are using Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5. -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. pgpuYGCme36Yk.pgp Description: PGP signature Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
Am Donnerstag, 17. September 2015, 14:19:42 schrieb Sebastian Hagedorn: > > Cyrus is running an a recently updated Ubuntu 14.04. lts server. Is there > > anything I can do? > > we are still on 2.4.x, but we had a similar problem that we resolved this > way: > > imap cmd="imapd -U 10" listen="imap.uni-koeln.de:imap" ... ...interesting to see that this happens on other Ubuntu systems as well - i saw this on some Ubuntu systems (only on Ubuntu setups) in the past too, without havin the option to dig in deeper what's happen there. If someone has further investigation results or experiences about this, this would be interesting... best regards, Niels. -- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT & Internet http://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
Hallo Konrad, --On 17. September 2015 07:51:15 +0200 Konrad Mauz wrote: Problem 1: The number of imapd processes increases during the day ( normal! ) but keep increasing during the night ( not normal ). I have a graph attached. Cyrus is running an a recently updated Ubuntu 14.04. lts server. Is there anything I can do? we are still on 2.4.x, but we had a similar problem that we resolved this way: imap cmd="imapd -U 10" listen="imap.uni-koeln.de:imap" ... The "-U 10" means every process is only re-used up to 10 times instead of the default of 250. This change caused the number of processes to drop quite a bit. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Sebastian Hagedorn -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. pgpVxWmE79pIu.pgp Description: PGP signature Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ To Unsubscribe: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus
Re: number of imapd processes never decrease
You have IMAP with max children set at 3k.
- Paul
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 1:51 AM, Konrad Mauz wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> on monday I updated our cyrus mailsystem to version 2.5.6 ( coming from 2.3.x
> ). The upgrade process was successfull.
>
>
> Problem 1: The number of imapd processes increases during the day ( normal! )
> but keep increasing during the night ( not normal ).
> I have a graph attached.
> Cyrus is running an a recently updated Ubuntu 14.04. lts server. Is there
> anything I can do?
>
> Problem 2: In my start-stop script i sent SIGTERM to the master process. The
> master exists, but sometimes most imapd process lists as "defunc" with "ps
> -ef". They never exits an must be killed with kill -9 or by a server reboot.
> Is this the wrong way?
>
> Regards,
>
> Konrad
>
> cyrus.conf:
>
> START {
> # do not delete this entry!
> recover cmd="ctl_cyrusdb -r"
>
> # this is only necessary if using idled for IMAP IDLE
> idled cmd="idled"
> }
>
> # UNIX sockets start with a slash and are put into /var/imap/socket
> SERVICES {
> # add or remove based on preferences
> imap cmd="imapd" listen="imap" prefork=10 maxchild=3000
> imaps cmd="imapd -s" listen="imaps" prefork=10 maxchild=3000
> pop3 cmd="pop3d" listen="pop3" prefork=5 maxchild=100
> pop3s cmd="pop3d -s" listen="pop3s" prefork=5 maxchild=100
> sieve cmd="timsieved" listen="sieve" prefork=1
>
> # these are only necessary if receiving/exporting usenet via NNTP
> # nntp cmd="nntpd" listen="nntp" prefork=0
> # nntpscmd="nntpd -s" listen="nntps" prefork=0
>
> # at least one LMTP is required for delivery
> lmtpunix cmd="lmtpd" listen="/srv/cyrus/imap/socket/lmtp" prefork=1
> maxchild=5
>
> # this is only necessary if using notifications
> notifycmd="notifyd" listen="/srv/cyrus/imap/socket/notify"
> proto="udp" prefork=0
> # syncserver cmd="sync_server" listen="csync"
> }
>
> EVENTS {
> # this is required
> checkpointcmd="ctl_cyrusdb -c" period=30
>
> # this is only necessary if using duplicate delivery suppression,
> # Sieve or NNTP
> # -X 60 -> expunged mails are unexpungable for 60 days
> # -D 60 -> deleted forlders are undeleable for 60 days
> # -E 7 -> delete entries in des duplicate database older then 7 days
> delprune cmd="cyr_expire -D 60 -X 60 -E 7" at=0400
>
> # this is only necessary if caching TLS sessions
> tlsprune cmd="tls_prune" at=0400
> squatindexcmd="squatter -i -v -s" at=0500
> }
>
>
>
> --
> Hochschule Konstanz - Rechenzentrum
> Konrad Mauz km...@htwg-konstanz.de
> Tel: +497531206-472, Fax: -153
> http://www.htwg-konstanz.de/rz.html
>
>
>
> Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/
> List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
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