Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Vasilii Shpilchin]

Voting for an rfc could be a quickest way to make a decision, since the
community does not have a consensus about the topic.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 6:33 PM Kris Craig  wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 3:14 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 5:32 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:53 PM Chase Peeler 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig 
> wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
>  On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler 
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor:
> Do
> >> you
> >> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP
> >> homepage?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over
> >> Mr.
> >> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a
> >> pacifist
> >> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
> >> >
> >> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP
> >> home
> >> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have
> >> gathered
> >> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to
> >> cause
> >> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
> >> >
> >> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
> >> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so
> many
> >> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so
> >> little
> >> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating
> >> something
> >> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we
> >> can agree
> >> > to, without destroying any connections within community.
> >> >
> >>
> >> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have
> >> absolutely no
> >> objection to that one.
> >>
> > As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is
> terrible
> > and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is
> > justified.
> > --
> > Chase Peeler
> > chasepee...@gmail.com
> >
> 
>  In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether.  I mean,
> if
>  we can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is
> a bad
>  thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't
> divide
>  our community.
> 
>  I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given
> >>> earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible
> thing.
> >>> Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How
> many
> >>> more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war
> >>> against the axis powers?
> >>> --
> >>> Chase Peeler
> >>> chasepee...@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was
> >> already underway.  And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would
> >> argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary.
> >>
> >
> >
> > If no one had fought back, would it have really been a war?
> >
> >>
> >> That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved.
> >> But we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary
> for
> >> Germany to invade Poland.
> >>
> >
> > Exactly my point. We can say we are against war as much as we want, but
> > there are evil people in this world that will still prey on others. When
> > that happens, “good men” are sometimes forced to fight back.
> >
> >
> >> Fighting a war to end a war is one thing.  Starting a war, on the other
> >>
> >
> > Yep. So you’ve already made caveats to your absolute statement, which was
> > my point.
> >
> >>
> >> --
> > Chase Peeler
> > chasepee...@gmail.com
> >
>
> No we're just going by different standards.  When I say war is unnecessary,
> I'm not talking about fighting an existing war.  I'm talking about starting
> a war.
>
> And it doesn't have to be a formal declaration, either.  The British
> effectively waged war against my people before we finally started fighting
> back.
>
> Wars begin when some asshole with a lot of power decides he wants to use
> that power to take what doesn't belong to him.  War is nothing more than
> people murdering each other and destroying humanity's accomplishments.
>

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Kris Craig]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 3:14 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 5:32 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:53 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>>>


 On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler 
 wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do
>> you
>> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP
>> homepage?
>> >
>> >
>> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over
>> Mr.
>> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a
>> pacifist
>> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
>> >
>> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP
>> home
>> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have
>> gathered
>> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to
>> cause
>> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
>> >
>> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
>> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
>> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so
>> little
>> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating
>> something
>> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we
>> can agree
>> > to, without destroying any connections within community.
>> >
>>
>> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have
>> absolutely no
>> objection to that one.
>>
> As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible
> and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is
> justified.
> --
> Chase Peeler
> chasepee...@gmail.com
>

 In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether.  I mean, if
 we can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is a bad
 thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't divide
 our community.

 I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given
>>> earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible thing.
>>> Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How many
>>> more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war
>>> against the axis powers?
>>> --
>>> Chase Peeler
>>> chasepee...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was
>> already underway.  And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would
>> argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary.
>>
>
>
> If no one had fought back, would it have really been a war?
>
>>
>> That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved.
>> But we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary for
>> Germany to invade Poland.
>>
>
> Exactly my point. We can say we are against war as much as we want, but
> there are evil people in this world that will still prey on others. When
> that happens, “good men” are sometimes forced to fight back.
>
>
>> Fighting a war to end a war is one thing.  Starting a war, on the other
>>
>
> Yep. So you’ve already made caveats to your absolute statement, which was
> my point.
>
>>
>> --
> Chase Peeler
> chasepee...@gmail.com
>

No we're just going by different standards.  When I say war is unnecessary,
I'm not talking about fighting an existing war.  I'm talking about starting
a war.

And it doesn't have to be a formal declaration, either.  The British
effectively waged war against my people before we finally started fighting
back.

Wars begin when some asshole with a lot of power decides he wants to use
that power to take what doesn't belong to him.  War is nothing more than
people murdering each other and destroying humanity's accomplishments.

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Chase Peeler]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 5:32 PM Kris Craig  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:53 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig  wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov 
> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig 
> wrote:
> >
> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do
> you
> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP
> homepage?
> >
> >
> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over
> Mr.
> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a
> pacifist
> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
> >
> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP
> home
> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have
> gathered
> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to
> cause
> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
> >
> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so
> little
> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating
> something
> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can
> agree
> > to, without destroying any connections within community.
> >
>
> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have
> absolutely no
> objection to that one.
>
 As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible
 and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is
 justified.
 --
 Chase Peeler
 chasepee...@gmail.com

>>>
>>> In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether.  I mean, if
>>> we can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is a bad
>>> thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't divide
>>> our community.
>>>
>>> I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given
>> earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible thing.
>> Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How many
>> more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war
>> against the axis powers?
>> --
>> Chase Peeler
>> chasepee...@gmail.com
>>
>
> From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was
> already underway.  And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would
> argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary.
>


If no one had fought back, would it have really been a war?

>
> That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved.  But
> we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary for
> Germany to invade Poland.
>

Exactly my point. We can say we are against war as much as we want, but
there are evil people in this world that will still prey on others. When
that happens, “good men” are sometimes forced to fight back.


> Fighting a war to end a war is one thing.  Starting a war, on the other
>

Yep. So you’ve already made caveats to your absolute statement, which was
my point.

>
> --
Chase Peeler
chasepee...@gmail.com

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Kris Craig]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 3:09 PM  Good Guy   wrote:

> On 06/03/2022 22:32, Kris Craig wrote:
> >  From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was
> > already underway.  And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would
> > argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary.
> >
> > That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved.
> But
> > we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary for
> > Germany to invade Poland.
> >
> > Fighting a war to end a war is one thing.  Starting a war, on the other
> > hand
> >
> Why are you still going on about this.


I'm not.  If you read the thread, you'll see that I was just responding to
a point someone else made.

This is a PHP forum and there is
> no room for history or philosophy lessons here. Just cut it out and move
> on.
>
>
> --
> "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But
> it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php




>

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[ Good Guy ]

On 06/03/2022 22:32, Kris Craig wrote:
>  From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was
> already underway.  And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would
> argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary.
>
> That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved.  But
> we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary for
> Germany to invade Poland.
>
> Fighting a war to end a war is one thing.  Starting a war, on the other
> hand
>
Why are you still going on about this. This is a PHP forum and there is 
no room for history or philosophy lessons here. Just cut it out and move on.


-- 
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But 
it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Kris Craig]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:53 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>>>
 On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov 
 wrote:

 > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig 
 wrote:
 >
 > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do
 you
 > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP
 homepage?
 >
 >
 > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over Mr.
 > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a
 pacifist
 > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
 >
 > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP
 home
 > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have
 gathered
 > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to cause
 > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
 >
 > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
 > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
 > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so
 little
 > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating
 something
 > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can
 agree
 > to, without destroying any connections within community.
 >

 +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have
 absolutely no
 objection to that one.

>>> As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible
>>> and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is
>>> justified.
>>> --
>>> Chase Peeler
>>> chasepee...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether.  I mean, if
>> we can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is a bad
>> thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't divide
>> our community.
>>
>> I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given
> earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible thing.
> Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How many
> more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war
> against the axis powers?
> --
> Chase Peeler
> chasepee...@gmail.com
>

>From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was
already underway.  And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would
argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary.

That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved.  But
we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary for
Germany to invade Poland.

Fighting a war to end a war is one thing.  Starting a war, on the other
hand

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Chase Peeler]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do you
>>> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP
>>> homepage?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over Mr.
>>> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a
>>> pacifist
>>> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
>>> >
>>> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP home
>>> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have
>>> gathered
>>> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to cause
>>> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
>>> >
>>> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
>>> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
>>> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so little
>>> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating something
>>> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can
>>> agree
>>> > to, without destroying any connections within community.
>>> >
>>>
>>> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have absolutely
>>> no
>>> objection to that one.
>>>
>> As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible
>> and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is
>> justified.
>> --
>> Chase Peeler
>> chasepee...@gmail.com
>>
>
> In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether.  I mean, if we
> can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is a bad
> thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't divide
> our community.
>
> I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given
earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible thing.
Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How many
more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war
against the axis powers?
-- 
Chase Peeler
chasepee...@gmail.com

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Kris Craig]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig  wrote:
>> >
>> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do you
>> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP
>> homepage?
>> >
>> >
>> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over Mr.
>> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a
>> pacifist
>> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
>> >
>> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP home
>> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have gathered
>> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to cause
>> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
>> >
>> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
>> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
>> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so little
>> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating something
>> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can
>> agree
>> > to, without destroying any connections within community.
>> >
>>
>> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have absolutely
>> no
>> objection to that one.
>>
> As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible and
> should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is justified.
> --
> Chase Peeler
> chasepee...@gmail.com
>

In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether.  I mean, if we
can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is a bad
thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't divide
our community.

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Chase Peeler]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig  wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov 
> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig  wrote:
> >
> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do you
> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP homepage?
> >
> >
> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over Mr.
> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a pacifist
> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
> >
> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP home
> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have gathered
> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to cause
> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
> >
> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so little
> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating something
> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can
> agree
> > to, without destroying any connections within community.
> >
>
> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have absolutely no
> objection to that one.
>
As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible and
should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is justified.
-- 
Chase Peeler
chasepee...@gmail.com

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Kris Craig]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig  wrote:
>
> Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do you
> believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the PHP homepage?
>
>
> As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over Mr.
> Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a pacifist
> but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.
>
> Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP home
> page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have gathered
> here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to cause
> tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).
>
> Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness"
> mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many
> disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so little
> reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating something
> like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can agree
> to, without destroying any connections within community.
>

+1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war".  I would have absolutely no
objection to that one.

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[Victor Bolshov]

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig  wrote:

Specifically, I would direct this question to
Pierre and Viktor:  Do you believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is
appropriate for the PHP homepage?


As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over Mr. 
Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. I'm a 
pacifist but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance.


Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on the PHP home 
page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have 
gathered here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going 
to cause tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?).


Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again madness" 
mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many 
disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so little 
reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating something 
like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is something we can 
agree to, without destroying any connections within community.

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

[ Good Guy ]

On 05/03/2022 22:26, Kris Craig wrote:
>
> out a statement of solidarity with the victims of war or are we talking
> about putting out a political statement demanding the arrest of a world
> leader?  *THE TWO ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME!! *


Putin is no longer a world leader by any standards. He is a pariah 
because of his actions over the past 10 years.

I was simply trying to create something when you said:

"I think just about everybody here agrees that Putin is a war criminal 
and an all-around ass
who deserves to be brought to justice for his many crimes, including those
against Ukraine. "

Did you say that?

However, let's cut the chaff. How about this sanitised version?

We Stand With Ukraine 


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stopRussian agression

[Björn Larsson via internals]

Den 2022-03-05 kl. 23:26, skrev Kris Craig:

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 7:05 AM  Good Guy   wrote:


On 05/03/2022 11:45, Sergey Panteleev wrote:


Several members have asked not to have a debate on this mailing list,
let's respect their opinions too.





It's not debating. The original post was simply asking to show true
colors of Ukraine's flag in these posts but HTML is not allowed here. I
have created a simple HTML code that show something like this:

Arrest Dictator Putin 


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Ffs this is exactly what I'm talking about!  Are we talking about putting

out a statement of solidarity with the victims of war or are we talking
about putting out a political statement demanding the arrest of a world
leader?  *THE TWO ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME!! *

So before we continue any further, we need to figure out EXACTLY what's
being proposed here because everybody seems to have a wildly different
interpretation of that.  Specifically, I would direct this question to
Pierre and Viktor:  Do you believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is
appropriate for the PHP homepage?  Is that what you meant when you said you
support a statement of solidarity?  I'm asking because it seems like there
are two very distinct camps among those who want to put out a statement:
One camp wants to express solidarity while the other seems more concerned
with personally condemning Vladimir Putin and demanding his arrest.

I'd feel a lot better about this if people would clarify which of these
camps they fall into.  It would be one thing if we had previously put up
something like "Arrest Dictator Bush" back in the day, but we didn't.  And
I'm not comfortable with the implied statement we'd be making that one
illegal invasion that displaces and murders innocent civilians is ok but
the other is not.

Could somebody please suggest a less politically divisive banner?  It
should focus on standing with the victims of war, not demanding arrests and
prosecutions.  That's not what the PHP homepage is for.


Well, I think that whatever the PHP community decide one should take
into account how it affects active PHP contributors that lives in Russia.

There is a recent Russian 'fake news' law which gives 15 years in
prison. So maybe it's a longshot to imagine that Russian authorities
would crack down on a PHP community member in Russia for something
stated in that programming community. Anyway, it's an angle I wanted
to bring up.

r//Björn L

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